Support weapons for necromancer?

[Shuzuru.3651]

39 minutes ago, Player.2475 said:

Is your idea of balance having a healing weapon that is so bad that even healers would rather use a dps weapon?

That's on you. You are the one that don't want to use it.

Heal rev I saw are using scepter because it provide way more boon and barrier than other option except maybe staff.

[Player.2475]

10 minutes ago, Shuzuru.3651 said:

That's on you. You are the one that don't want to use it.

Heal rev I saw are using scepter because it provide way more boon and barrier than other option except maybe staff.

I'm sure rev players are grateful they get more options to apply a boon that they get 100% uptime on while AFK

[Shuzuru.3651]

1 hour ago, Player.2475 said:

I'm sure rev players are grateful they get more options to apply a boon that they get 100% uptime on while AFK

It also provide more barrier on top of range support.

The fact the herald can already provide part of those boon doesn't make the weapons bad, it simply proved that Herald is quite OP, boon wise.

Also, it's not like rev got any good weapon remplacement, either.

[Purple Effects.2503]

12 hours ago, Shuzuru.3651 said:

So... you asked for a support weapons but don't want it unless it's like super op?

That's a... strange way to see balance...

I tbh don’t get the fasinaction with it.

all that will happen is scourge would get nerfed til it output the same healing as today, just pigeon holed into a weapon which overall will make it worse the  current. 

necromancers additions are balanced based on its mechanics, it has pros and cons, other classes are the polar opposite, their mechanics add less but other features add more

theres good and bad to both concepts, there are people for and against both designs. But that doesn’t mean both options can’t exist.

by normalising necromancer, you aren’t expanding diversity, ur literally removing it. There’s 9 classes, I don’t get why players feel the need for play styles to match. 

 

[Szatko.8132]

On 5/27/2024 at 7:49 PM, Player.2475 said:

Party healing seems pretty limited. Scourge barrier is nice. Well of blood is good too, but other than some applications of regeneration and Well of Blood, I don't see any burst healing potential. If you're going into an encounter where your party is left low on health after a mechanic like Fractal 99, there is no way to really heal them up in a reasonable amount of time.

Would a healing weapon upset the balance too much?

Scourge's design as a support is all about providing barriers. Scourge's healing output is not as great, since their barriers mitigate most of the damage pressure that happens during encounters. They simply don't need a lot of healing in their kit and that's completely fine. Personally, the only thing I'd change would be to make dagger 2 grant tiny healing pulses to allies (kinda similar to ranger's staff 2) and regeneration + remove regen from Well of Blood, so you don't have to use it as a regen uptime buffer.

[Shuzuru.3651]

19 hours ago, Magmi.6723 said:

I tbh don’t get the fasinaction with it.

all that will happen is scourge would get nerfed til it output the same healing as today, just pigeon holed into a weapon which overall will make it worse the  current. 

necromancers additions are balanced based on its mechanics, it has pros and cons, other classes are the polar opposite, their mechanics add less but other features add more

theres good and bad to both concepts, there are people for and against both designs. But that doesn’t mean both options can’t exist.

by normalising necromancer, you aren’t expanding diversity, ur literally removing it. There’s 9 classes, I don’t get why players feel the need for play styles to match. 

 

While I do agree on fact we clearly don't need an OP support weapon and that having all the support being simillar is a bad idea, I think scourge can be improved without making it broken :

I bit of ally healing on dagger 2 won't make it broken

A support also shouldn't struggle to apply swiftness, I know Febe relic is a thing, but that's really sad (using your burst heal on cd to barely keep swiftness...)

In the next patch, they will buff a warrior banner from 1stack of stab to 5 to "bring it more in line with other support", meanwhile scourge struggle to apply a single stack on it's party, 2 stack with good anticipation (but only on other, not you), 3 stack is possible but is almost an urban legend...

I don't expect guardian or rev level of stability (because diversity is good, and scourge got strong point those two don't have), but scourge is even below the bare minimum...

I think scourge still has a bit of window of improvement without being broken.

 

[Purple Effects.2503]

2 hours ago, Shuzuru.3651 said:

think scourge still has a bit of window of improvement without being broken

Ur still going to pigeon hole a spec into a singular weapon for no reason though. 

And it doesn’t solve the fact your wanting a weapon that would require such a sole focus on support it will be useless to 99% of the game. 

the vast majority of players do not raid and do not PvP, they have 0 use with a full support centred weapon, and before we mention Druid and other things, these came out as new elites which did launch with several roles and uses beyond just healing. 

however, because this is only a weapon, this will result in nothing changing full stop for the vast majority of the player base….. 

the expansion has to kinda attract the majority to buy it, and if the only actual relevant thing to it is completely unusable to them, they won’t buy it. lol

 

[Shuzuru.3651]

4 hours ago, Magmi.6723 said:

Ur still going to pigeon hole a spec into a singular weapon for no reason though. 

And it doesn’t solve the fact your wanting a weapon that would require such a sole focus on support it will be useless to 99% of the game. 

the vast majority of players do not raid and do not PvP, they have 0 use with a full support centred weapon, and before we mention Druid and other things, these came out as new elites which did launch with several roles and uses beyond just healing. 

however, because this is only a weapon, this will result in nothing changing full stop for the vast majority of the player base….. 

the expansion has to kinda attract the majority to buy it, and if the only actual relevant thing to it is completely unusable to them, they won’t buy it. lol

 

Counter exemple is ranger mace, that thing is a support weapon that use to also be used in the dps build. Of course, the damage were nerf a bit because it was completely broken, but the weapons is still a solid option in a lot a build, actually.

You pointed than not a lot of people play raid/PvP, and that also a good point for support weapons. A support weapons bring 2 thing to the table that are the most seeked in OW (so, the main mode) : sustain and buff. Those are 2 thing a dps build will usually ignore because provided by a dedicated support, but are seeked for open world build because trading a bit of damage for extra staying power. Because support weapon does not meant no damage.

Actually, dagger is a must pick in necro power build, despite being more a sustain weapon, at the detriment of axe and sword, the real power weapons, abandonned. Balance wise, it will make more sense to buff dagger support capabilities instead of damage, to both bring back axe and sword as power option, and dagger at sustain/support option, but would still be a solid pick for damage (but not the best)

[Purple Effects.2503]

59 minutes ago, Shuzuru.3651 said:

Counter exemple is ranger mace, that thing is a support weapon that use to also be used in the dps build. Of course, the damage were nerf a bit because it was completely broken, but the weapons is still a solid option in a lot a build, actually

Ranger also has already existing support weapon options and traits that cover a full healing role as well as core trait lines that support it. 

necromancer doesnt, you forget the reason scourges mechanics were so bloated was to cover this. A weapon to stand up worth using would have to solely encompass the entirety of necromancers healing ability. 

the same as staff originally also had to for ranger. Hence its complete lack of use in anything but support. 

59 minutes ago, Shuzuru.3651 said:

u pointed than not a lot of people play raid/PvP, and that also a good point for support weapons. A support weapons bring 2 thing to the table that are the most seeked in OW (so, the main mode) : sustain and buff. Those are 2 thing a dps build will usually ignore because provided by a dedicated support, but are seeked for open world build because trading a bit of damage for extra staying power. Because support weapon does not meant no damage

Except they don’t hence why EoDs meta took such critic, the concept of expecting Ow players to use roles properly was deemed unacceptable. 

necromancer already has staying power existing in DPs builds. 

necromancer doesn’t need increasing in OW, if anything a support weapon will likely bring nerfs to our passive staying power because of the disruption to the balance necromancer currently follows. 

look at mesmer it took a major change in balancing to support its support weapon, a core highlight of that is the fact its considered completely trash in SPvP outside of its support build. 

you cannot have a class, with high damage options, the highest self sustain, to have AoE barrier, condition cleansing, boon corrupting and a fully capable healing weapon in one function, it’s a recipe for power creep. And an absolutely busted class. 

It is very likely necromancer would take nerfs to several other parts of its kit as a trade off here and possibly would be worse for it, which is overall very likely 

it is no secret Anet have kept active self sustain tools to a minimum and with necromancer as the trade off for such high passive sustain.  Support weapon does disrupt that current dynamic. 

a support weapon, would only wield strength in a specific support role. And a support role of that level of caliber in open world is simply not needed as open world is not balanced to require it. 

they tried making it so during EoD and it was met with backlash, scourge wields enough to be a full DPs and provide Over the amounts of sustain required in a primarily DPS focused role alike many others. 

you can heal OW if you want, but it’s unwarranted and demands a gearing process most in OW would not delve in to achieve 

Edited June 16 by Magmi.6723

[Shuzuru.3651]

13 hours ago, Magmi.6723 said:

Ranger also has already existing support weapon options and traits that cover a full healing role as well as core trait lines that support it. 

necromancer doesnt, you forget the reason scourges mechanics were so bloated was to cover this. A weapon to stand up worth using would have to solely encompass the entirety of necromancers healing ability. 

the same as staff originally also had to for ranger. Hence its complete lack of use in anything but support. 

That's kinda false. The reason druid exist is because ranger was on the same spot as necro, lacking core option for support role.

The reason staff is purely support is more probably because of the design of the time of support weapons, look at guardian staff as exemple, same as druid staff. Nowadays, they seems to have shifted more toward hybrid weapons for support, so the weapons stays usable out of instanced content.

14 hours ago, Magmi.6723 said:

Except they don’t hence why EoDs meta took such critic, the concept of expecting Ow players to use roles properly was deemed unacceptable. 

necromancer already has staying power existing in DPs builds. 

necromancer doesn’t need increasing in OW, if anything a support weapon will likely bring nerfs to our passive staying power because of the disruption to the balance necromancer currently follows. 

look at mesmer it took a major change in balancing to support its support weapon, a core highlight of that is the fact its considered completely trash in SPvP outside of its support build. 

you cannot have a class, with high damage options, the highest self sustain, to have AoE barrier, condition cleansing, boon corrupting and a fully capable healing weapon in one function, it’s a recipe for power creep. And an absolutely busted class. 

It is very likely necromancer would take nerfs to several other parts of its kit as a trade off here and possibly would be worse for it, which is overall very likely 

it is no secret Anet have kept active self sustain tools to a minimum and with necromancer as the trade off for such high passive sustain.  Support weapon does disrupt that current dynamic. 

a support weapon, would only wield strength in a specific support role. And a support role of that level of caliber in open world is simply not needed as open world is not balanced to require it. 

they tried making it so during EoD and it was met with backlash, scourge wields enough to be a full DPs and provide Over the amounts of sustain required in a primarily DPS focused role alike many others. 

you can heal OW if you want, but it’s unwarranted and demands a gearing process most in OW would not delve in to achieve 

Not sure about that, the thing about necro is the lacks of active meaning you kinda have to soak damage, compared to other class. That mean that if you want a really robust build versus hard hitting foes, you often need to sacrifice most of your damage.

The only exception to that would be scourge, who kinda could have both damage and sustain, except it's not build for power at all. So if a support weapon were to be created, dps scourge won't benefit it at all (support weapons tend to be power ones), only pure support scourge, who don't care about damage.

Power specs of necro already got sustain weapon, so the added sustain of a support weapons (slightly more buff, I guess ?) would probably be minimal and not really required nerf on necro traits or mechanics.

Basically, the impact of it who be "nice to have it, but not broken"

[Purple Effects.2503]

7 hours ago, Shuzuru.3651 said:

That's kinda false. The reason druid exist is because ranger was on the same spot as necro, lacking core option for support role

I’m not stating the reason Druid exists. Im stating Druid held more ground then a Support ONLY option by existing as an elite specs and not a singular weapon. 

while staff held little relevancy to any other role due to it sole focus on being a support weapon. 

Druid did offer condi builds as well as bunker builds in spvp. 

the point I’m making is. If you introduce something that is only actually wanted in a sliver of existing content by a niche audience, ur going to upset the majority telling them they’re getting absolutely nothing new with a expansion they’re expected to buy. 

you want a support fine. But bring it in as an elite, not a weapon by itself, because at least this way, you can make the spec multi functional alike spectre. 

[Purple Effects.2503]

8 hours ago, Shuzuru.3651 said:

ower specs of necro already got sustain weapon, so the added sustain of a support weapons (slightly more buff, I guess ?) would probably be minimal and not really required nerf on necro traits or mechanics

Of course it would…. 

lol, if you don’t think support staff being introduced wouldn’t be matched with nerfs to necro…

this has occurred EVERYTIME, it literally occurred with spectre and every other support elite. They caused nerfs to the core class trait lines / utilities to balance out …

minimal?? 

How would it be minimal? If the addition is that small, you won’t even use the thing, your aware support already exists on necro right?…. This isn’t a brand new role like Druid was to ranger, we are already fully capable of playing as a support.

If scourge is already extremely strong in the role without it, the weapon has to justifiable be stronger then its current options to warrant use, which means it has to be overpowered…. lol by default to be worth its use it has to be overpowered. 

you can’t just take a balanced weapon and through it in there it will be useless, because it’s not needed by scourge. Which means Anet would have to first make necromancers need to use it. I.e nerfing the reasons they don’t need it. 

If we didn’t have a existing support role, like ranger didn’t at the time of druids arrival, I’d agree with you, the issue is we do, and either this is stronger or useless in that terms. 

this game already doesn’t rly embrace full Support roles. It embraces hybrids and role compression.

necromancer already has the healing and barrier. What necromancer lacks is access to boons, lol. Giving it a healing weapon won’t fix that. It just means you’ve given necro overhealing I.e meaningless. 

necromancer brings its healing via its traits, utilities and class mechanic, it actually is also pretty high, this frees us to use weapon combinations for other purposes, which lends great strength in being able to output more DPs then other options while doing it. 

all a support weapon would make necro is a support bot I.e you just spam healing, and we really don’t need that lol, so no. 

if the weapon wasn’t to be overpowered it’d likely go unused, and even in used environments it’d likely be strictly PvP and WvWvW because nothing pve wise requires this level of healing output due to how power crept the game is, and how little bosses have kept up with that. 

this is why we went through a time tempest wasn’t wanted, it offered the highest healing output and defensive options in the game at the time, nobody wanted one however because it was never needed… it was far better to carry offensive supports such as scourge and firebrand because the healing was fine to be carried by them while performing several other roles 

Edited June 16 by Magmi.6723

[Shuzuru.3651]

10 hours ago, Magmi.6723 said:

Of course it would…. 

lol, if you don’t think support staff being introduced wouldn’t be matched with nerfs to necro…

this has occurred EVERYTIME, it literally occurred with spectre and every other support elite. They caused nerfs to the core class trait lines / utilities to balance out …

Wrong, Soto support weapons didn't come with nerf, actually some of them even come with buff, on already strong support elite

10 hours ago, Magmi.6723 said:

How would it be minimal? If the addition is that small, you won’t even use the thing, your aware support already exists on necro right?…. This isn’t a brand new role like Druid was to ranger, we are already fully capable of playing as a support.

If scourge is already extremely strong in the role without it, the weapon has to justifiable be stronger then its current options to warrant use, which means it has to be overpowered…. lol by default to be worth its use it has to be overpowered. 

Support necro only exist as scourge, so not really

And about the fact the weapon must be stronger than current option... lol. Actually, scourge weapons options are "whatever fit in your hand, that won't change a thing, anyways", even a weapon with the bare minimum support capabilities would be the superior option.

10 hours ago, Magmi.6723 said:

you can’t just take a balanced weapon and through it in there it will be useless, because it’s not needed by scourge. Which means Anet would have to first make necromancers need to use it. I.e nerfing the reasons they don’t need it. 

Well, there is quite a lot of point where scourge could be improved, it's far from perfect, from a support point of view. Also, if they could add mace to ranger and scepter to rev (already very strong support), you can't tell me it's impossible to do the same for necro, who is lacking in a lot of department, too...

10 hours ago, Magmi.6723 said:

all a support weapon would make necro is a support bot I.e you just spam healing, and we really don’t need that lol, so no. 

if the weapon wasn’t to be overpowered it’d likely go unused, and even in used environments it’d likely be strictly PvP and WvWvW because nothing pve wise requires this level of healing output due to how power crept the game is, and how little bosses have kept up with that. 

You seems overfocused on healing but why would it be about healing, scourge don't need much more healing, actually, a reliable way to put swiftness, on the other side...

10 hours ago, Magmi.6723 said:

this is why we went through a time tempest wasn’t wanted, it offered the highest healing output and defensive options in the game at the time, nobody wanted one however because it was never needed… it was far better to carry offensive supports such as scourge and firebrand because the healing was fine to be carried by them while performing several other roles 

Well, scourge wasn't needed too, unless you wanted a rezbot. Tempest wasn't needed back then because it was lacking a key boon, so firebrand would be prefered.

[Purple Effects.2503]

13 hours ago, Shuzuru.3651 said:

Wrong, Soto support weapons didn't come with nerf, actually some of them even come with buff, on already strong support elit

Not directly sure, however it took multiple changes to fit a support role which indirectly nerfed its other options, Hence the fact litterally every DPS Variant of mesmer has Dissapeared in SPVP while it wasnt that long ago it simply wasnt the case.

13 hours ago, Shuzuru.3651 said:

Support necro only exist as scourge, so not really

And about the fact the weapon must be stronger than current option... lol. Actually, scourge weapons options are "whatever fit in your hand, that won't change a thing, anyways", even a weapon with the bare minimum support capabilities would be the superior option

and all that will exist with a Healing weapon, is Scourge lol, a singular weapon will never make Harbinger or Reaper be a Viable healer."Whatever fit your hand" Lets just ignore the Fact that Necromancer has a ton of optional CC or DPS tools they can mesh With their healing role depending on the game Mode and more.

13 hours ago, Shuzuru.3651 said:

Well, there is quite a lot of point where scourge could be improved, it's far from perfect, from a support point of view. Also, if they could add mace to ranger and scepter to rev (already very strong support), you can't tell me it's impossible to do the same for necro, who is lacking in a lot of department, too..

you ignore the fact they're nerfed into a state their only Barely useable in 1 build, recreate that for Necro, Sure. they can create a weapon to nerf to hell and back After a month or 2 and we can leave it to Rot. 

13 hours ago, Shuzuru.3651 said:

You seems overfocused on healing but why would it be about healing, scourge don't need much more healing, actually, a reliable way to put swiftness, on the other side..

Revenants Scepter allows Boons to ONE Target. its Explosive effect is Barrier, 

and Ranger Maces Heal and give a Healing buff through its mechanic, NEither of these weapons became large because of their access to Boons and these Classes ALREADY provided the exact boons at 100% uptime already through traits Lol.

you took 2 Healing weapons, Hence why the focus is on healing

If you want boons Added to necromancer, Its far more likely we'd see this come in via Traits, Not weapon Skills, as its far easier to Balance a Class with traits requiring trade offs then to lob this sorta thing on a Weapon Skill set, I can't say im personally that aware there are many weapons that seriously offer Boons through its Base Weapon skills, without input from things like Traits. not to the competitive standard atleast. 

 

Edited June 17 by Magmi.6723

[Shuzuru.3651]

1 hour ago, Magmi.6723 said:

Not directly sure, however it took multiple changes to fit a support role which indirectly nerfed its other options, Hence the fact litterally every DPS Variant of mesmer has Dissapeared in SPVP while it wasnt that long ago it simply wasnt the case.

Buff to support that made dps build disapear? That's the most random connection I ever heard, i'm sure that's completely unrelated

1 hour ago, Magmi.6723 said:

and all that will exist with a Healing weapon, is Scourge lol, a singular weapon will never make Harbinger or Reaper be a Viable healer."Whatever fit your hand" Lets just ignore the Fact that Necromancer has a ton of optional CC or DPS tools they can mesh With their healing role depending on the game Mode and more.

You literraly says what i said "tons of cc and dps tool" is the definition of "whatever fit in your hand"

I do agree Reaper won't be a support, the class isn't made for support, on the other side harbinger could be something happening, slightly on the meme side, but that could happend

And scourge is still lacking on some front, so yeah, at least it should happens for scourge

1 hour ago, Magmi.6723 said:

you ignore the fact they're nerfed into a state their only Barely useable in 1 build, recreate that for Necro, Sure. they can create a weapon to nerf to hell and back After a month or 2 and we can leave it to Rot. 

You mean the weapons? Are you for real ?

Ok, little reality check : dps weapons are only used in dps build, support/defensive weapon are only used in heal/tank build, that's true for every class and weapons in the game and that's completely fine, design wise, the right tools for the right jobs.

2 exception to that : 

- hybrid/celestial build, who often use a mix of dps/support weapon 

- when the right weapons for the job doesn't exist, we took the closest one who may do something interesting, like mace for rev (100% condi weapon) for some Might with combo, or the whole necro situation where there is so nothing that it would be fine to took anything 

1 hour ago, Magmi.6723 said:

Revenants Scepter allows Boons to ONE Target. its Explosive effect is Barrier, 

and Ranger Maces Heal and give a Healing buff through its mechanic, NEither of these weapons became large because of their access to Boons and these Classes ALREADY provided the exact boons at 100% uptime already through traits Lol.

you took 2 Healing weapons, Hence why the focus is on healing

If you want boons Added to necromancer, Its far more likely we'd see this come in via Traits, Not weapon Skills, as its far easier to Balance a Class with traits requiring trade offs then to lob this sorta thing on a Weapon Skill set, I can't say im personally that aware there are many weapons that seriously offer Boons through its Base Weapon skills, without input from things like Traits. not to the competitive standard atleast. 

First, rev scepter is aoe boons, read the skills...

Second, those weapons also provide boons, on top of healing

Third, I only used those exemple to argue adding support option to already more complete support specs than scourge is clearly doable. I never ever said that this weapon should be focused on healing, I even kinda said the opposite... or only a slight healing part, I mean, dagger 2 isn't like a super healing in itself, having like a aoe version of it won't break a thing...

[Purple Effects.2503]

11 hours ago, Shuzuru.3651 said:

Buff to support that made dps build disapear? That's the most random connection I ever heard, i'm sure that's completely unrelated

No, changes to traits and more lol, chrono took many support related changes which changed its previous builds.

and Mesmer has taken a list of nerfs which came at the lead up towards Soto / weapons. 

11 hours ago, Shuzuru.3651 said:

You mean the weapons? Are you for real ?

Ok, little reality check : dps weapons are only used in dps build, support/defensive weapon are only used in heal/tank build, that's true for every class and weapons in the game and that's completely fine, design wise, the right tools for the right jobs

.also, not true. Spectre is a really good example of a support weapon and elite which was able to be developed to incorporate DPs options. Which would be the best way for necro to go also. 

we will never agree on this. 

I hate support, its the entire reason I chose necromancer above any other class, was because necromancer does not share its weapon designs with the other roles. 

so I’m never gonna be For the concept of the introduction to suddenly be involved. I also as much as you don’t want to admit it. Could lead the nerfs which hamper the class elsewhere. 

The 2 weapons in question did get nerfed, that is completely true.

and I did read the skills, I just didn’t see this boon application, 

I saw with mace is has some boon access, but revs sounds like it applies boons to a tethered target. I ain’t played either of the classes, because those classes aren’t of interest to me 

maybe we will get one maybe we won’t, spears still got 2 skills to show, if we get a boon I kinda hope for swiftness even if self applied only  would be nice to have abit of movement added. 

Edited June 18 by Magmi.6723

[Player.2475]

After a bit of reflection I'm still not sure.

You're going to be damned no matter what route you go. You can add a support weapon OR improve existing weapons in one way. Both may open up synergies never previously thought of, and the related traits and skills might get nerfed to compensate. While I'd love to see scourge being able to actually use weapons to help its role, it would be hard to slot a dagger-specific trait to apply a mild pulsing heal because it would compete with other healing traits in Blood Magic and it doesn't make sense for it to be anywhere else.

 

[Purple Effects.2503]

On 6/19/2024 at 12:35 PM, Player.2475 said:

 

After a bit of reflection I'm still not sure.

You're going to be damned no matter what route you go. You can add a support weapon OR improve existing weapons in one way. Both may open up synergies never previously thought of, and the related traits and skills might get nerfed to compensate. While I'd love to see scourge being able to actually use weapons to help its role, it would be hard to slot a dagger-specific trait to apply a mild pulsing heal because it would compete with other healing traits in Blood Magic and it doesn't make sense for it to be anywhere else

 

In all honesty I’d be surprised if they did either without a new elite. 

necromancer is able to bring a lot of damage in a support role, this is because they make the class mechanic overbloated to fit the role, if it could match other classes healing because its trait lines are primarily damage related, it’d become once again the big meta healer. 

given especially since PoF, necromancer to consistently become busted. It wouldn’t surprise me if Anet steered clear of such a move. 

but the future shall reveal, it’s possible we will see Anet try to incorporate it. But they’ve refused necro this for over a decade now. It’s starting to feel pretty intentional. 

[Szatko.8132]

On 6/18/2024 at 9:28 AM, Magmi.6723 said:

No, changes to traits and more lol, chrono took many support related changes which changed its previous builds.

and Mesmer has taken a list of nerfs which came at the lead up towards Soto / weapons. 

.also, not true. Spectre is a really good example of a support weapon and elite which was able to be developed to incorporate DPs options. Which would be the best way for necro to go also. 

we will never agree on this. 

I hate support, its the entire reason I chose necromancer above any other class, was because necromancer does not share its weapon designs with the other roles. 

so I’m never gonna be For the concept of the introduction to suddenly be involved. I also as much as you don’t want to admit it. Could lead the nerfs which hamper the class elsewhere. 

The 2 weapons in question did get nerfed, that is completely true.

and I did read the skills, I just didn’t see this boon application, 

I saw with mace is has some boon access, but revs sounds like it applies boons to a tethered target. I ain’t played either of the classes, because those classes aren’t of interest to me 

maybe we will get one maybe we won’t, spears still got 2 skills to show, if we get a boon I kinda hope for swiftness even if self applied only  would be nice to have abit of movement added. 

- I don't think Specter's scepter is a good example in this situation tho, as for its supporting capabilities it's extremely clunky with constantly swapping the target between your allies and an enemy while in shroud. I honestly haven't seen a support Specter in any PvE content for more than a year and that's for a reason.
- Giving dagger 2 a very small ally healing with regen application would allow Well of Blood to be used more consistently as a burst healing option or even allow heal builds to utilize Sand Flare for more barrier and boon removal. If anything, that'd be a great quality of life change without breaking the balance of the game.
- I don't really understand how your personal preferences have to do anything with the conversation. If you hate playing as a support, then simply don't play it. There are so many power dps weapons for a necromancer to choose and apparently everything needs to be addressing only your needs?

[Szatko.8132]

On 6/15/2024 at 6:29 PM, Shuzuru.3651 said:

While I do agree on fact we clearly don't need an OP support weapon and that having all the support being simillar is a bad idea, I think scourge can be improved without making it broken :

I bit of ally healing on dagger 2 won't make it broken

A support also shouldn't struggle to apply swiftness, I know Febe relic is a thing, but that's really sad (using your burst heal on cd to barely keep swiftness...)

In the next patch, they will buff a warrior banner from 1stack of stab to 5 to "bring it more in line with other support", meanwhile scourge struggle to apply a single stack on it's party, 2 stack with good anticipation (but only on other, not you), 3 stack is possible but is almost an urban legend...

I don't expect guardian or rev level of stability (because diversity is good, and scourge got strong point those two don't have), but scourge is even below the bare minimum...

I think scourge still has a bit of window of improvement without being broken.

 

Yee, in my opinion the only thing we really need for a support scourge is to:
- give dagger 2 a small aoe heal for allies (very similar to ranger's staff 2 ability but even lower) that will also grant regen.
- perhaps make warhorn 5 grant swiftness to allies as well, so we're not forced to run Febe's relic to provide swiftness or make Eternal Life provide aoe swiftness instead of self protection.
- give more stab on Trail of Anguish (from 1 to 2 stacks), but hotfix it, so you can't proc it two times per ally per ability.

Edited Wednesday at 01:44 PM by Szatko.8132