Short Bow in sPVP

[Puunji.3109]

So I have really tried hard to make Short Bow somewhat viable in sPvP but I just feel like it is all around worse than LB unless you sink a absurd about of points into condition damage. I know that this is probably due to all of the condition removal in the game currently but playing with Short Bow is much more fun to me than LB and I really wish that it wouldn't feel like hitting with a wet noodle. Does anyone else feel that Short Bow may be a bit undertuned for sPvP?

Just as an fyi, I tried it as several variations of full condi as well as celestial druid with several different tweeks.

[Krispera.5087]

I got some nice success with Sage Sbow Condi Druid. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJAVWjMqQ/K2yCOsAVLWcEM4k6TNr2sAycdAmAwkryVyKSD-jpRAQB9Y/hQeEAmYZAPcIAMwFAAAPAAA

Condi damage is fine. Yes, it's not ''bursty'', but very annoying (So. Many. Immob.). Healing Power is so-so, but enough to help yourself and support your team. Not the best to 100% support your team.

Change things are you wish, like the runes, sigils, skills. Lynx or Traveler to get Movement speed ? Lyssa to get nearly full condi clear ? Krait if you want more Condi Damage. Do you want to be even more annoying ? Get Muddy Terrain instead. Do you want more bleed ? Get Sharpening Stone.

The reason for Healing Spring is to make it easier to get a burst heal and share regen with your teammates to get your CA up. You also can blast it for more heal with CA 4 and Staff. You can put Troll if you want, it depends of your tastes.

But, true, you won't kill someone super fast. SBow needs a little more ''punch'' to it, but overall, it's an okay-ish weapon. Nice back evade, cc, hard cc and condi applications. It's not on the same league as bursty condition builds like FB and Mirage, but it works on a medium-longer fight than a short bursty fight. You'll hit like a wet noodle against SBreaker/Warriors, but I always felt I was hitting like a wet noodle with Longbow druid against this profession anyway.

[Puunji.3109]

So I tried this build a while ago with only minor changes (Primal Reflexes instead of Trapper's, Troll Ungent, wyvern instead of wolf, maybe a couple other little things) and found that warriors and decent necros were almost impossible to kill. Also, mesmers straight up took my lunch money.

All in all, I just felt that the survivability wasn't there. You don't get condi clear, healing, etc when you take krait over the utility rune options and you don't have the additional toughness given by celestial or the additional healing power given by mendors. While this build wasn't terrible, I just felt that it really couldn't compete well against the other meta builds.

I appreciate the suggestion and I'm not really sure what I hope to gain out of this thread. I guess I just wanted to see if there was something I was missing or maybe get additional ideas from other players.

[Fluffball.8307]

"I did ok once" is about the best you can do with SB. These threads have been coming up for literally years, and it's just not that useful of a weapon for a bunch of reasons, but mainly that we have significantly better options. If other weapons are better, you have to bend over backwards to make a subpar weapon work, and the result is unsatisfying.

[HeadCrowned.6834]

Shortbow doesnt work because it has zero utility. You miss the knockback and the invis from the longbow, and the range of the shortbow is also shorter than longbow. I did OKish as well once with sb/staff but its just subpar.

[Belishine.7493]

if you use shortbow you will need to think like a traper and not just try to run into fight you will need to do some mental shifts. what i mean by this is try to ambush someone so its one on one and keep up the presser and you should do ok with the shortbow. it might help if you run soulbeast condi build for it though that is all i can do to help you.

[Puunji.3109]

Scourge outputs too much condi in sPvP to not run Druid in my opinion. I considered running a trapper-esk setup but you lose most of your condition removal and end up becoming a shitty one-shot build. As for utility, Short Bow does have the evade and the 5 skill which interrupts / dazes but I get what you mean.

[Belishine.7493]

a little helpfull hint is to use the new soulbeast healing stance it removes condi and gives a realy big heal. for the most part i dont have to mutch issue with condi clense for my ranger useing soulbeast. if the stance is still to low then use the healing spring and trait it to remove condi and you should be ok in condi cleanse.

[gogogodofwind.9630]

it all falls in the your playstyle and mastering it. I use sb and axe/warhorn with wizard amulet and I like it alot. As a condi ranger, I like to stay range and kite all the time. So SB and Axe is pretty much a must for me. For utilities i bring spike trap, zeph, and reflex. Thats two stun break trait with condi remove and an unblockable/launch stun trap that does very good dmg. Never had any issue with 1v1. Kite them for days XD

[StickerHappy.8052]

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:Shortbow doesnt work because it has zero utility. You miss the knockback and the invis from the longbow, and the range of the shortbow is also shorter than longbow. I did OKish as well once with sb/staff but its just subpar.

This is actually false.

0 utility? An evade? An Immob? A CC? And poison? 4 projectile finishers? Longbow is useless in melee range unless you hit the 4 or the stealth to disengage. Perma swiftness on SB 3 too. This is coming from me who won multiple duels with top tier rangers and reached Plat-High plat using SB. I have never used LB at all because it is too boring for me.

Only pros of longbow is burst and range. Well burst of course since it is a power oriented weapon.

If SB had a 1200 range, scourges are easy. Another thing that SB lacks is it doesn't really scale well with power, any of its skills don't.

[Fluffball.8307]

@StickerHappy.8052 said:Only pros of longbow is burst and range. Well burst of course since it is a power oriented weapon.

Stating the obvious,1 is ultra long range good damage.2 is ultra long range pressurey-burst.3 is, well, stealth so that's awesome.4 is hard CC and can trigger immob5 is not too shabby.

LB is an awesome weapon for power.

I'm actually a big defender of SB, it's a really good weapon. But compared to something like [insert ranger or especially druid weapon], I feel it's pretty underpowered. Especially if you're running druid, it's really hard to justify running a condi druid in PvP. Works better in WvW where you can go full tank.

[HeadCrowned.6834]

@StickerHappy.8052 said:

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:Shortbow doesnt work because it has zero utility. You miss the knockback and the invis from the longbow, and the range of the shortbow is also shorter than longbow. I did OKish as well once with sb/staff but its just subpar.

This is actually false.

0 utility? An evade? An Immob? A CC? And poison? 4 projectile finishers? Longbow is useless in melee range unless you hit the 4 or the stealth to disengage. Perma swiftness on SB 3 too. This is coming from me who won multiple duels with top tier rangers and reached Plat-High plat using SB. I have never used LB at all because it is too boring for me.

Only pros of longbow is burst and range. Well burst of course since it is a power oriented weapon.

If SB had a 1200 range, scourges are easy. Another thing that SB lacks is it doesn't really scale well with power, any of its skills don't.

1. Oke, 1 evade, ill give you that. But 3s of stealth > 1 evade.
2. Immob if you hit from the side or back. If you want to escape you're getting pressured. Often you won't hit from the side then. Its an unreliable immob. It can be cleansed, ignored, etc.. Knockback of longbow 4 >immob.
3. You already have enough access to poison, plus the poison skill of the shortbow is optimal in close range, which is bad.
4. Longbow also has projectile finishers.
5. You say longbow is useless in melee range, but except for #2 the shortbow is useless in melee range aswell. At least the longbow has the knockback to get the enemy out of melee range.
6. The swiftness on shortbow #3 is nice, but you only need that if youre running a condi build, which you basically have to if you run shortbow. Non-condibuilds have enough access to swiftness/movement speed.

That argument of ''I won multiple duels with this and that'' is so invalid. We talk about a 5v5 conquest mode here. I'm legend now this season with longbow, but thats not really an argument either. You dont have escape options with shortbow, you have less sustain in 1v2 and you have to give up too much to actually make it work.

[Fluffball.8307]

To be fair, Sticker was saying that 'it's false SB has zero utility'. Our SB has awesome utility but there's no other word for it than subpar. You can make it work but you're hamstringing yourself.

[HeadCrowned.6834]

Apart from that evade, I still argue it has 0 utility in pvp. It was almost never a good pvp weapon in the past, and that is the exact reason. How can it have awesome utility but still be subpar? The utility just isn't awesome.

[Fluffball.8307]

Daze isn't awesome utility? Of course it is. Ever single skill has something good to say about it.

SB is subpar to our other weapons, but t's still got some good stuff on it. That's why we keep trying to make it work. For years.

[trunks.5249]

@"Puunji.3109" said:So I have really tried hard to make Short Bow somewhat viable in sPvP but I just feel like it is all around worse than LB unless you sink a absurd about of points into condition damage. I know that this is probably due to all of the condition removal in the game currently but playing with Short Bow is much more fun to me than LB and I really wish that it wouldn't feel like hitting with a wet noodle. Does anyone else feel that Short Bow may be a bit undertuned for sPvP?

Just as an fyi, I tried it as several variations of full condi as well as celestial druid with several different tweeks.

you might want to try this build its has good has you will get with shortbow . this is what i use when i am not useing my trapper build . http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAV8fjEqQLLWyCOsAVLWmEMmpV0ax1EAecTA4faS9pWi3PD-jpRAAB9s/w+lB84IAYwDAIgDCAAXAAA

[HeadCrowned.6834]

@Fluffball.8307 said:Daze isn't awesome utility? Of course it is. Ever single skill has something good to say about it.

SB is subpar to our other weapons, but t's still got some good stuff on it. That's why we keep trying to make it work. For years.

Listen, I am not trying to be negative about people that try new builds and weapons, and trying to make them work. I actually encourage that. BUT people also need to understand that PvP is a very ''niche'' market, with a very thick line between what is good and what is bad. In most cases, a weapon is either useless or useful in PvP, and nothing in between. In PvE you can make almost any weapon work, in PvP you can't. So you can call the daze an awesome utility, or highlight any specific things that might be good on a shortbow, but in order to evaluate the weapon in PvP properly, you have to compare it to other options. And if you do that, the Shortbows utility is VERY minimal compared to other weapons. I would love shortbow to be viable in PvP more than anyone, but it just isn't and most likely will never be.

[Fluffball.8307]

I think we're saying the same thing. SB is a good weapon, but it might as well not exist for PvP.