Please address how screwed up PVE Bladesworn is

[rainhelm.3827]

On 7/17/2024 at 9:32 AM, WingSwipe.3084 said:

I agree, Bladesworn is a really cool concept but as you state:

This is the nail on the head for this entire situation.

Complexity should heavily reward skill, but if you reward skill people start complaining and when that happens nerfs come down.

Just like with weaver I don't think they need to neccessarily make these specs hit absurd benchmarks to make them relevant. But they should offer something of value in gameplay, you can't just sell people a cool theme and expect them to be happy and larp around with that. This is the reason most people end up dumping specs like weaver or bladesworn for more simplistic ones.

In case of BSW unfortunately there are a lot of bugs (many of them have to do with gunsaber) that plague the spec aswell. @Etaoin.4362 made some great points and I agree that bugfixing alone won't fix the fundemental problems people have around gunsaber and dragon slash, but at the very least it would make the spec less infuriating to those who want to actually play it.

[Jzaku.9765]

On 7/17/2024 at 3:50 AM, rainhelm.3827 said:

Lastly I'd like to emphasis that its not the complexity that creates the problem its the you get nothing in return treatment thats the problem. If you're giving me so many things to micromanage then there should be some reward for doing so. This is the weaver problem all over again.

Just my perspective on this, it's a tricky balance because then you are creating a spec for an extremely small minority of the player base, who will use nothing else because the reward for "being good at the game" is just so much better. IMO much better to even out the gameplay requirements for most specs and give them equal opportunities in terms of utility, letting their core gameplay mechanics be the incentive to play the spec instead of say, their DPS. 

[draxynnic.3719]

1 hour ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

Just my perspective on this, it's a tricky balance because then you are creating a spec for an extremely small minority of the player base, who will use nothing else because the reward for "being good at the game" is just so much better. IMO much better to even out the gameplay requirements for most specs and give them equal opportunities in terms of utility, letting their core gameplay mechanics be the incentive to play the spec instead of say, their DPS. 

I think part of the perspective is the "tide rising all boats" aspect. Allowing the benchmark to go a bit higher due to the complexity required to pull it off means that players who haven't perfected it can still play the specialisation and get decent performance out of it, and it doesn't really matter to the wider game if there are a few speedrunners who can push 50k. At the moment, things like weaver and bladesworn have an air of "if you do everything perfectly, you achieve about what most people who do raid/strikes can achieve with a much simpler profession" - with the effect that playing these builds is pretty much only ever really done as a flex by people who would probably still reach for the simple builds if they start going for something more difficult like HTCM or LegCerus.

[Jzaku.9765]

3 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I think part of the perspective is the "tide rising all boats" aspect. Allowing the benchmark to go a bit higher due to the complexity required to pull it off means that players who haven't perfected it can still play the specialisation and get decent performance out of it, and it doesn't really matter to the wider game if there are a few speedrunners who can push 50k. At the moment, things like weaver and bladesworn have an air of "if you do everything perfectly, you achieve about what most people who do raid/strikes can achieve with a much simpler profession" - with the effect that playing these builds is pretty much only ever really done as a flex by people who would probably still reach for the simple builds if they start going for something more difficult like HTCM or LegCerus.

It might not matter from an unbiased arbitrator POV but it absolutely matters for public perception, which is unfortunately more important than reality. Just look at the discourse surrounding the meta picks for HTCM/Cerus LCM when its content that affects sub 1% of the player base. 

[WingSwipe.3084]

On 7/19/2024 at 8:28 AM, rainhelm.3827 said:

Just like with weaver I don't think they need to neccessarily make these specs hit absurd benchmarks to make them relevant. But they should offer something of value in gameplay, you can't just sell people a cool theme and expect them to be happy and larp around with that. This is the reason most people end up dumping specs like weaver or bladesworn for more simplistic ones.

If you have this much to micromanage, then hitting disgusting benchmarks should be a hallmark of what the apex of players can achieve. Its going to be less then 1% of the players

If you want the profession to not hit those disgusting benchmarks then you need to reduce the micromanagement, why would i pick BSW when i can pick Virtuoso and do more damage, for less effort and at range. Oh thats right, I wouldnt unless im stubborn and stupid.

[Kunavi.2407]

I keep trying to love it, but it has some severe issues. TLDR;

- Effort : Reward ratio is pure L
- Feels very static in a very fast paced combat MMO
- While in theory it has options including great CC, the way the rotation goes(And must go) they're useless as anything but DPS increases and CC isn't reliable, if CC phase aligns with DT then fine, otherwise 0 CC and you can't really hold back on DTs or you do no DPS... All that feels a bit frustrating NGL
- Related to the above, it ends up relying on other sources for Stability, which it absolutely constantly needs
- Brings next to nothing
- Feels like a reference more than something that actually has a place
- Class can already achieve the exact same results in more convenient ways(Zerker/Breaker)
- Very hit or miss during more casual content, as in, dealing too much damage or not being to deal enough damage because of the pace of combat and open world PVE circumstances
- Seems like it's more oriented towards structured encounters like raids or Strikes but there are classes that do a lot more with a lot less
- Missed opportunity to completely replace weapon swap and other weapons
- Doesn't feel smooth to play optimally, lots of clunk

Bonus Round;

- No GunSaber skins
- Some strange and annoying results with the various Dragon Trigger options, for instance the long range wave slash one seems to not be able to cross gaps on the terrain and some more
- Not really any options, either use the exact rotation and Build offered or it just isn't as effective- Even though in theory it should have been quite customizable
- Strange design decisions, for example buffing its ranged capabilities instead of giving it back its original damage, in a GW2 that is now dominated by 50K-60K bench classes as the norm with not a lot of skill required to achieve it

It's not popular at all and for good reasons, I've never seen another BladeSworn and I do Fractals, Strikes and raids quite often(Raids not that much lately). Literally never seen one in at least a whole month, not in open world, not in Fracs, nothing.

...All this, from someone who actually enjoys Power DeadEye Rifle/Daggers even for Fractals(I'm weird I know)...

I think part of the issue here may be Warrior as a whole but that's a diff discussion~

Edited July 25 by Kunavi.2407