Initial thoughts on JW

[Kunavi.2407]

In general it's a W- By far my favourite expansion, loved exploring the new areas, great stuff all in all. I know I paid for it which is gratitude enough, but I feel like saying... Thanks for JW. I'm not being sarcastic, I'm having a genuinely good time with it. Warrior spear too mid and not melee so I'm not touching that but it's fine, I'll enjoy it on my thief IG.

All that out of the way;

- Tiered Hearts thing feels redundant
- Some Hearts are too slow or tedious to do
- What's with all the boon stripping and stealing?
- A couple of areas spawn way too many enemies way too fast. If that's intentional it's a bit too much. One I can think of is a cliff near the Kodan village with some infinitely spawning Valravn that I encountered hours ago. I kept killing, they were spawning faster than I could do so and had to run or I'd still be there
- Too many new currencies and resources to gather IMO, which also at this point give more grounds for people to argue we have too many in general
- Not a fan of more difficulty levels for stuff down the line. Having a Challenge Mode for some encounters is fine but let's not do the FFXIV thing please- Let's not have 3-4 different versions of the same fight with increasing difficulty. Just design a fight in a nice and balanced way and call it a day at this point... Unless literally the only thing you get above CM is a title and achievement points

I could add a few more points but I'm saving them for now, they concern things I hope will be addressed within the next 1-2 weeks, glitches and other such issues here and there. I get it, expansion launch week. It's all right.

Edited August 22 by Kunavi.2407

[Scar.1793]

The hearts being slow is due to another mastery you need to unlock to use the heart tokens (so you can complete them daily for daily rewards).

Personally I'm not a fan of the never ending masteries, I feel they are a huge wall for newcomers and it's not a good thing. Too many masteries are essentials and some simply prevent you from progressing if you don't have them.

I agree with the currency thing, they really really should simplify things. Similar to the tomestones from FFXIV and each expansion having like 2 specific currencies max.

_____________

For my part :

The maps and OST are clearly inspired by Witcher 3 and to some extent Skyrim. They are very well crafted and I like the new bosses.

Mobs are stronger but the Rot AoE spam is obnoxious, in HoT the mobs are stong and even at release they were slightly stronger but each had specific gimmicks to watch out for. Here it's just mobs jumping and spamming that AoE everywhere (with a very ugly texture to top it off).

Another issue with champions in general, by having them that strong with no proper scaling, I fear we'll end up as HoT with many events not even done by people because the mobs are simply too strong for 1-3 players. Proper scaling should be a thing, like in WoW where if a player hits the boss, its health and damage change accordingly.

Homestead : everything is expensive. Simple furnitures cost a lot and the resources are basically timegated. It feels a lot like the homestead was only tested with devs tools and not as a player POV (such as infinite resources, which leads to the absence of item preview). Anet wanted to see players home decorations, well unless you're a famous player receiving help/donations, Anet will wait a while. A shame since it's one of the main features of the expansion.

Last point on homesteads : alts, their positions should be registered. Sadly they are reset to their armor-class location everytime. So the whole purpose of having them in the homestead is pretty much pointless. Furnitures/structures should have a preview window, it's essential in designing spaces.
 

[Pinkeh.4207]

Mobs jumping everywhere, spamming that purple rot without a pause. 😅

[Linken.6345]

56 minutes ago, Kunavi.2407 said:

In general it's a W- By far my favourite expansion, loved exploring the new areas, great stuff all in all. I know I paid for it which is gratitude enough, but I feel like saying... Thanks for JW. I'm not being sarcastic, I'm having a genuinely good time with it. Warrior spear too mid and not melee so I'm not touching that but it's fine, I'll enjoy it on my thief IG.

All that out of the way;

- Tiered Hearts thing feels redundant
- Some Hearts are too slow or tedious to do
- What's with all the boon stripping and stealing?
- A couple of areas spawn way too many enemies way too fast. If that's intentional it's a bit too much. One I can think of is a cliff near the Kodan village with some infinitely spawning Valravn that I encountered hours ago. I kept killing, they were spawning faster than I could do so and had to run or I'd still be there
- Too many new currencies and resources to gather IMO, which also at this point give more grounds for people to argue we have too many in general
- Not a fan of more difficulty levels for stuff down the line. Having a Challenge Mode for some encounters is fine but let's not do the FFXIV thing please- Let's not have 3-4 different versions of the same fight with increasing difficulty. Just design a fight in a nice and balanced way and call it a day at this point... Unless literally the only thing you get above CM is a title and achievement points

I could add a few more points but I'm saving them for now, they concern things I hope will be addressed within the next 1-2 weeks, glitches and other such issues here and there. I get it, expansion launch week. It's all right.

About the fights you know that they are doing that to give the instanced players some content on the cheap resource wise.

So why ask to take it away?

 

[Kunavi.2407]

10 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

So why ask to take it away?

I'm not asking for anything, I'm just sharing my opinions, wishes and hopes. As I explained, it's because 200 versions of a fight doesn't make sense. Just tweak it so it's balanced and challenging, give it a CM and leave it at that. An even more difficult version should only be for bragging rights so a title or achievements and not do the FFXIV thing where unless you're doing the "Real" version you're seen as a scrub and won't get the same loot ETC.

[Dean Calaway.9718]

12 hours ago, Kunavi.2407 said:

What's with all the boon stripping and stealing?

Getting boons corrupted was actually fun and they already nerfed it...

12 hours ago, Kunavi.2407 said:

A couple of areas spawn way too many enemies way too fast.

I disagree, got map completion on the 2nd day I say they could spawn more because I'm frequently looking for targets. North West of Syntri actually makes you feel like you can die, love it.

12 hours ago, Kunavi.2407 said:

Too many new currencies and resources to gather IMO, which also at this point give more grounds for people to argue we have too many in general

That's a complaint from people with a general attitude of "how dare you make me play the game instead of just allowing me to buy everything with the gold I got from AFK farming?"

With a new expansion I expect new currencies, and this one is hardly hard locking anything behind the new stuff, I expected they'd do that more.

12 hours ago, Kunavi.2407 said:

Not a fan of more difficulty levels for stuff down the line. (...) Let's not have 3-4 different versions of the same fight with increasing difficulty. 

They should make an infinite difficulty scale to see how far players could go, this was the original idea of the fractals after all.

[Kunavi.2407]

1 minute ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Getting boons corrupted was actually fun and they already nerfed it...

I disagree, got map completion on the 2nd day I say they could spawn more because I'm frequently looking for targets. North West of Syntri actually makes you feel like you can die, love it.

That's a complaint from people with a general attitude of "how dare you make me play the game instead of just allowing me to buy everything with the gold I got from AFK farming?"

With a new expansion I expect new currencies, and this one is hardly hard locking anything behind the new stuff, I expected they'd do that more.

They should make an infinite difficulty scale to see how far players could go, this was the original idea of the fractals after all.

That was done after I posted. Also your definition of fun seems to be quite strange, it was just annoying.

You completely didn't understand what I was talking about with those 2-3 spots where some particular enemies spawn way too fast to the point where they overwhelm you. May have been a glitch?

You assume way too much, I don't AFK farm and I don't mind playing the game, I do so for 6-8 hours a day and I love it. But we have a metric ton of currencies now, come on.

[Dean Calaway.9718]

2 minutes ago, Kunavi.2407 said:

your definition of fun seems to be quite strange, it was just annoying.

Not as annoying as quoting an entire post whole sale.

 

3 minutes ago, Kunavi.2407 said:

You completely didn't understand what I was talking about with those 2-3 spots where some particular enemies spawn way too fast to the point where they overwhelm you.

Did you miss the part where I specifically made reference to have both maps completed to dispel any doubt I've been there and done that?

5 minutes ago, Kunavi.2407 said:

You assume way too much

Do I?

6 minutes ago, Kunavi.2407 said:

But we have a metric ton of currencies now

You mean like dungeon tokens being all aggregated into one currency and unusual coins being bundled together?

[Astrial Dragonous.1038]

Truly my favorite addition.  Loving the theme, approaches and most important the out of the box thinking.  The PvE space is where my brother and I spend most of our time, and we are Loving this addition.

[wgpa.5047]

On 8/23/2024 at 6:09 AM, Kunavi.2407 said:

I'm not asking for anything, I'm just sharing my opinions, wishes and hopes. As I explained, it's because 200 versions of a fight doesn't make sense. Just tweak it so it's balanced and challenging, give it a CM and leave it at that. An even more difficult version should only be for bragging rights so a title or achievements and not do the FFXIV thing where unless you're doing the "Real" version you're seen as a scrub and won't get the same loot ETC.

Tell me you haven't played FFXIV without telling me you've never played FFXIV. Most content has 2 levels of difficulty there, normal, and hard, thats it. There is special scenarios (literally a handful of instances) where there is a third way harder difficulty level. FFXIV is the most easy to follow structure wise in that regard. The problem with GW2 is that "one difficulty + cm" means absolutely nothing when some normal modes are literally just auto attack and they die, while some are 10 minute fights with actual mechanics, which most of the player base are too scared to try. This is why they have worked to implement more modes, so that everyone can enjoy the content at the level they are at, and hopefully bring them into harder content. Also wing 8 is gonna have 5 versions all together, but actually its 2 different fights, one 50 man with normal and challenge mode (this is the convergence) and then the 10 man squad version has normal, CM and the legendary cm. Thats it, it ain't that complicated.

[Kunavi.2407]

Sorry to disappoint, but I've played FFXIV for years and the only things I haven't done, is wrap up Ultimates and Criterion. Any other content I've cleared including all Extremes and Savage. I gave up Savage raiding with YawnTrail though. In fact I gave up on FFXIV with that. Now... I never said I don't understand that system or the concept behind it.

So... Tell me you didn't get what I was saying without telling me you didn't get what I was saying... "Just tweak it so it's balanced and challenging, give it a CM and leave it at that" is what I wrote. No idea where you read all the rest you think I argue for, when I don't even argue to begin with BTW. To clear it up I agree NM is too easy, so I was saying in my opinion they should just tweak that to be reasonably challenging and keep CM as further challenge for some more achievements, title and more gold. In this case, NM should still be considered the canonical "Real" version and offer the same loot otherwise.

Again, just IMHO. I'm not asking, or "Crying" or W/E I'm just stating an opinion. Plus if difficulty goes up to FF levels I'd personally drop GW2, I don't quite enjoy stuff when it's too easy but I also like that it's chill without being boring even in high end content IE reasonably challenging for a mostly casual MMO. If I wanna feel like I'm taking math exams every fight while pushing my memory to its limits I'll go back to FF. Also this whole "Bring people in to harder content by making content hard" is IMHO just an L take. I know for a fact it has the opposite effect on most of my raiding group(Which again, we left FF in part due to constantly increasing difficulty) and as you pointed out your self, people are already hesitant now, what makes you think yet another, even higher difficulty, will suddenly attract them? Curious assumption. And... Don't you think that if someone wants really difficult raids ETC can then just go over to FF or any other MMO that aims exactly for that type of player and content? Why shoe horn this difficulty fetish into what's known and enjoyed as a casual MMO? Any way most of what I wrote in this paragraph has nothing to do with my point above, feel free to ignore it.

As for that last bit, that's basically a Convergence with CM, and a raid Wing with CM and Legendary. I don't see why you'd lump them together just to argue that the way forward is having more and more versions of a fight with each one harder than the previous.

Edited August 25 by Kunavi.2407

[Mistwraithe.3106]

Personally I think difficulty tiers for instanced content is an excellent idea. Anet obviously came to a similar conclusion with fractals ages ago, surprised it has taken so long to apply it more broadly to strikes and raids.

Anyone who wants more strikes and raids should applaud this. It seems almost certain that if you let players gain familiarity with mechanics in easier versions then more of them will move up to the harder versions.

[wgpa.5047]

15 hours ago, Kunavi.2407 said:

Sorry to disappoint, but I've played FFXIV for years and the only things I haven't done, is wrap up Ultimates and Criterion. Any other content I've cleared including all Extremes and Savage. I gave up Savage raiding with YawnTrail though. In fact I gave up on FFXIV with that. Now... I never said I don't understand that system or the concept behind it.

So... Tell me you didn't get what I was saying without telling me you didn't get what I was saying... "Just tweak it so it's balanced and challenging, give it a CM and leave it at that" is what I wrote. No idea where you read all the rest you think I argue for, when I don't even argue to begin with BTW. To clear it up I agree NM is too easy, so I was saying in my opinion they should just tweak that to be reasonably challenging and keep CM as further challenge for some more achievements, title and more gold. In this case, NM should still be considered the canonical "Real" version and offer the same loot otherwise.

Again, just IMHO. I'm not asking, or "Crying" or W/E I'm just stating an opinion. Plus if difficulty goes up to FF levels I'd personally drop GW2, I don't quite enjoy stuff when it's too easy but I also like that it's chill without being boring even in high end content IE reasonably challenging for a mostly casual MMO. If I wanna feel like I'm taking math exams every fight while pushing my memory to its limits I'll go back to FF. Also this whole "Bring people in to harder content by making content hard" is IMHO just an L take. I know for a fact it has the opposite effect on most of my raiding group(Which again, we left FF in part due to constantly increasing difficulty) and as you pointed out your self, people are already hesitant now, what makes you think yet another, even higher difficulty, will suddenly attract them? Curious assumption. And... Don't you think that if someone wants really difficult raids ETC can then just go over to FF or any other MMO that aims exactly for that type of player and content? Why shoe horn this difficulty fetish into what's known and enjoyed as a casual MMO? Any way most of what I wrote in this paragraph has nothing to do with my point above, feel free to ignore it.

As for that last bit, that's basically a Convergence with CM, and a raid Wing with CM and Legendary. I don't see why you'd lump them together just to argue that the way forward is having more and more versions of a fight with each one harder than the previous.

This is very strange, like your comment makes no sense. But to start, i realize you are enjoying JW, and so am I, and I don't mean to spoil your fun or anything. Sorry if i went in too aggressive on my last comment. But also... You quit FFXIV cause of dawntrail's raiding difficulty? I've done ex and savage prog... And as far as i understand instanced content wise people are quite happy with dawntrail. its doing some interesting stuff while still being challenging but not too challenging. I did not prog on endwalker, but i understand people thought that expansion was too easy and following too straight of a formula on instanced content. Also, dawntrail only has their first tier out... And you quit already? Strange.

Back to GW2. I guess we are just not on the same page as to what is taking place. When you say "Just tweak it so it's balanced and challenging, give it a CM and leave it at that" what does that even mean in the context of GW2? Is balanced and challenging shiverpeaks pass? Or whisper of jormag? Or harvest temple? Or Doom? We do not agree content is too easy. Sure some of the Icebrood saga strikes are too easy, but this is some of the most played instanced content in the game. I think the real problem is the difficulty in the game has no structure. Some CMs are basically the same difficulty as the NM, while some are insanely punishing. I think they are trying to give this wing a bit more structure.

As far as i can infer from the information we have gotten about wing 8 (we really won't know until it comes out) they are trying to make everything easier, and not harder for entry level. The convergence 50 man is for people that are either intimidated by 10 man "raid" content, and/or just don't like that type of content and want something easier and chill to play, and see the story. Now they did say the convergence CM will be hard, as it should be, its a CM. But also, it ain't gonna be cerus CM, it will be accessible if you can put a good build together and do a rotation decently, like the current convergence CM (likely similar to umbriel).

Now the 10 man raid will likely be Aetherblade hideout level of difficulty, or I think thats what it should be. The bosses should range between Aetherblade normal to maybe Harvest temple normal. Honestly i am expecting easier than this cause they want as many people to jump on it as possible. The challenge mode will likely be somewhere pretty comparable to like wing 4 CMs, maybe EoD (not harvest temple) CMs. And then legendary CM will be where they push the people that want a grind. Hopefully this will be straight up 3 bosses around harvest temple CM to cerus LCM.

Now why i am lumping these together? Because Anet has lumped them together every time they mention them. I think its pretty clear they want to move people into the covergence, and have them go "oh this was pretty fun... Maybe i could try the 10 man version!" Or hopefully "this is good rewards but i hear the 10 man has extra rewards/different rewards i should try that!" And funnel them into the raid that way. CMs are harder to get people into but thats pretty straight forward who will try them and who won't. Their goal is to have as many people as possible playing the new raid, on whatever difficulty, cause people did not play strikes on SoTo, or have played raids a ton ever.

This is all what i am expecting and infering from the information they've given us (to be fair is not a ton), and what i think would be best, also what the communities i engage with think would be the best. So obviously it could all be wrong, but i really hope it ends up being something similar to this. Time will tell. Hope we all get to enjoy some great content in the upcoming patches. 

[Shade.3268]

I thought JW was great until...... 4 days in they nerfed the thief spear and left it for dead. it was gonna be a great alt weapon to short bow but without a stealth or evade..... its kind of useless in my opinion...... just sayin it kinda ruined it for me and a waste of money since I don't care about decorations and a homested(my home instance was good enough). As a WvW only player these days..... I wont be spending my money on anymore expansions for guild wars 2 until they work out the nerfs and I can actually see what I'm getting. A lot people just play wvw and get the expansions to expand their builds and I personally feel like i've been caught in a bait and switch again with anet......

The maps are beautiful but Meh.... not worth the money for the expansion if they gonna nerf it into the grounds. Honestly I'm really tired of them nerfing maps. HoT was the best expansion and forced people to grow in their playstyle but then people cried like always and they dumbed everything down.

Theses are my Thoughts on the new JW expansion. Good luck Anet you wont be seeing anymore of my money in pre-orders.

 

[Kunavi.2407]

18 hours ago, wgpa.5047 said:

This is very strange, like your comment makes no sense.

Read it twice and it makes perfect sense to me, what are you having issues with? Unless you meant you just don't agree?

18 hours ago, wgpa.5047 said:

You quit FFXIV

Yes, I did. I don't like the type of difficulty it has, IE just choreographed, positioning related memory checks punished by a complete wipe even if a single person fails their responsibility, without much room for recovery, against HP sponges that thematically don't work for me, in encounters that last way too long. For the vast majority of encounters.

This has been progressively getting worse with each expansion ever since I started FFXIV, back in ShadowBringers. I went through all content with every expansion, and every time raiding just stressed and tired me more and more as my own memory just wasn't made for these types of memory checks and I'd rather have actual game play matter.

Sorry if that triggers you as a fan of FF, I mean no offense but that's my(And most of my group's) experience with FF over a few years now. So when DT launched and we saw that the direction they're pushing for, is very clearly one focused on such encounters and an increasing difficulty fetish(As in, more stuff to memorize, more condensed mechanics, and so on)... We decided we had enough for FF's combat style and encounter design.

...Plus most of us(Self included) got very tired of the homogenization of classes and how unimaginative they are at this point with their abilities.

So it's not quitting already but more like seen 2-3 expansions now, don't like it, carrying on. Not the kind of game play I enjoy, not the kind of challenge I'm looking for and not one I consider fun personally.

18 hours ago, wgpa.5047 said:

I guess we are just not on the same page as to what is taking place.

Clearly. I'm starting to think it's pointless to continue. Besides all I wanted to do was state my opinion on JW. And in any case, we do agree unless someone else posted from your account, because a while ago you clearly said GW2's encounters are too easy on average. You literally mention it's just auto attacking, with CMs taking 10' or so with a few mechanics here and there. Dunno, this is too confusing and too out of topic.

You don't need to repeat your personal interpretations and assumptions on either the Convergence or the raid coming up, I only had issue with you lumping two different things all in the same pile to prove a point, as I mentioned.

...Could you give me a source on ANet clearly stating they view Convergences as raids, so I can correct my self in that regard? And after that I'm gonna just not read this thread any more because honestly all I wanted was to express that I quite enjoy JW and it's getting out of hand.

[Kunavi.2407]

On 8/26/2024 at 5:05 AM, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

Anyone who wants more strikes and raids should applaud this.

On 8/26/2024 at 5:05 AM, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

It seems almost certain that if you let players gain familiarity with mechanics in easier versions then more of them will move up to the harder versions.

Debatable. You may not personally agree with the points I've made throughout my last couple of posts, but they're legitimate and I know for a fact I'm not exactly the only person sharing these thoughts. As a side note, most players I've ever known(And that's a lot, considering I used to organize statics in FF and in GW2 as well as recruitment) stick to low levels and don't really care for more versions once they clear. A lot don't even bother with that unless pushed or cleverly enticed.

Any way... If GW2 is trying to be FFXIV then as always, it will gain some and lose some. I'll be part of the latter, along with most of my group going by several discussions we've had recently. Shame if it comes to that.

But... As I told another person above I think this is neither the time, place or thread for writing on difficulty, FFXIV, or any of that other stuff. I simply wanted to show some appreciation towards ANet's efforts with JW, unironically. So I think I'll just move on now.