Weaver and its new sword...

[sephiroth.4217]

@Kyon.9735 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@juno.1840 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@"Amethyst Lure.5624" said:I think in terms of barrier, they are just really afraid of putting the value too high when it's not a main mechanic sort of like for Scourge's role. Consider how overpowered the mechanic could be for Weavers, if it scaled too much with other traits and above all, other effects from other characters. I am hoping for more iteration on those values for sure though.

I don't think barrier ele will get buffed.... Not when you can have 20k health followed up with 12k barrrier which is already 32k health to chew down if the barrier decay doesnt hit first.

I've been using barriers to counter play the first team fight mid and mostly around conditions, rather have conditions eat my barrier than my health while waiting on that passive condition cleansing to fully take place.

You're not self-applying 12k barrier -- you cannot count barriers applied by others. With 1500 healing power, all our barriers are 800, with the dodge barrier being 1800. The earth stance will pulse 800 x5 but you will not see 4000 out of that due to decay.

Fire / Earth Molten Armor + The stance Barrier + Traited Stance Barrier + dodges.

You won’t be maintaining that for long though and at most have that combo up every 20s till stone resonance runs out of charges then it’s every 50s. That’s without mentioning this weaver has so much stats in vitality and healing power that most people can largely ignore it, it won’t be killing anything soon wherever this weaver is.

How do I post pictures? I'm going 15/0 in my games or better just from holding and defending far point.

https://imgur.com/Bfda11Y

best I can do I think on these forums.

I honestly think you guys need to play around with Weaver a lot more and yea I stated before that you can get 12k IF the decay doesn't hit first. Never said it was viable, was saying it most likely won't be buffed in the value sense due to what you can accomplish with it already, hopefully they do buff it by extending decay effects... The increased Vitality is from a trait which doesn't effect your amulet/build.

Sounds like you guys are trying to use Tempest builds on a Weaver when you guys mention healing power. Only thing I can assume is people still use Menders for sustain?

Once again, barrier is capped at 50% of health so you’ll never have more than 10k barrier and if you’re getting vitality only from traits then you’re flat out lying about having 20k health, the conversion isn’t that good. In WvW with increased stats I got 16.5k from mostly grieving and marauder, I’m guessing you have runes adding another 1750 health to push it higher but I still find your numbers suspect.

As mentioned by others, 10k barrier even not taking into account that you blew all your cool downs for it and dodges and have invested heavily into it forgoing an excellent condition clear trait isn’t that much and when you see someone take off half of it in 1 hit it makes you wonder why bother when you can invest in dodges instead.

Also that picture shows nothing because it’s so low quality, can’t read any of the numbers or anything. Not a jab just saying it’s showing nothing due to pixilation.

If you can't do it, it's on you. I can do it fine. I don't need to run over bias factors, math and assumptions because my opinion runs off experience. (of which I said earlier it's not that viable of a build, even with 15/0 as score on a half made version, theres much better builds there) But I do laugh because you make it sound like you've blown every single defensive cool down before the fight even began lmao

You could probably get higher using carrion ammy with sword trait too if you really wanted to make a full barrier build.

I have to ask why you're so keen for an argument? It's coming off as very inexperienced or immaturity. I couldn't care less if you don't believe me because that means I'm achieving things on Weaver others can't

yet

. But I may be misreading this and you could be seeking help? So I ask, do you need help with Weaver?

If you're not seeking help on Weaver, you seem overly upset by my opinion as to why barriers might not get buffed. I don't think any sane and logical person would be this upset over an opinion which is why i'm asking if you need help friend or if you are just looking to argue to pass time? If it was to pass time then I congratulate you for derailing a thread so well and for baiting me.I have no interest in the latter unfortunately and won't continue this discussion any further unless you are genuinely seeking help because I'm always keen to help fellow Weavers, met quite a few in game that I've been duelling and build crafting with...

It's the internet so I'm not sure if trolling...

"Full barrier" build with Carrion Amulet. Note: Barrier HP gained scales with Healing Power. Maximum barrier HP is capped at 50% of the reciever's maximum health.

Here's the problem in case you don't understand.

• Barrier gained scales with Healing Power. Higher healing Power = higher barrier HP.• Maximum barrier HP can only be 50% of your maximum health.• You never mentioned how you managed to attain 12k barrier HP at a single instance while avoiding barrier decay. What skills and utilities did you pop? What amulet were you using? There's only 1 amulet that can help you reach 20k HP and 1.5k Healing Power when used with Healing Power runes: Magi's Amulet.

The fact that you are suggesting Carrion amulet for a Barrier build is highly intriguing. Sure, the barrier's maximum HP may reach 10k but how would you attain that without Healing Power and external help from a Scourge? Wouldn't Magi's Amulet actually be better for a full barrier build (though completely useless)? Please make things simple. Post a PvP video wherein you get 10k+ barrier HP at one instance without blowing all your CDs using a Carrion Amulet.

The question is very simple:

How did you get those barrier numbers?

@sephiroth.4217 said:I have no interest in the latter unfortunately and won't continue this discussion any further unless you are genuinely seeking help because I'm always keen to help fellow Weavers, met quite a few in game that I've been duelling and build crafting with...

Your credibility is at stake here so you better man up bro. Please don't use this kind of lame excuse to escape. People are not baiting you, you were getting agitated and defensive on your own. Please post proof first so people will believe you.

I don't care for my credibility because I know what I can do with my builds and the ones I've learnt from others.

looks like you're starting to get there for the barrier build but I just want to point out that I'm not claiming this as a good build, I only commented to say that I personally dont think it will be buffed due to what it can achieve already and posting a half made barrier build going 15/0 was my attempt at proof.

I also said earlier the skill combo needed, just need to time it with your 50% passive, perhaps theres a passive block mechanic in arcane to help with this.

[Kyon.9735]

@sephiroth.4217 said:I thought going 15/0 on a half made barrier build was proof enough as to why I don't think barrier will be buffed. I don't care for my credibility either because I know what I can do with my builds so far and I got this barrier build from someone in game as a tip to help deal with Scourges.

15/0 in unranked arena... is barely any proof at all. And yet again, the question was left unanswered. What Amulet and runes were you using?

If you're wondering why I am persistent, it's not that I'm "baiting" you or anything. It's just because what you were saying is technically impossible at least based on my current knowledge of the barrier mechanics. I want to know how to do it so I can further improve my build.

[sephiroth.4217]

@Kyon.9735 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:I thought going 15/0 on a half made barrier build was proof enough as to why I don't think barrier will be buffed. I don't care for my credibility either because I know what I can do with my builds so far and I got this barrier build from someone in game as a tip to help deal with Scourges.

15/0 in unranked arena... is barely any proof at all. And yet again, the question was left unanswered. What Amulet and runes were you using?

If you're wondering why I am persistent, it's not that I'm "baiting" you or anything. It's just because what you were saying is

technically impossible

at least based on my current knowledge of the barrier mechanics. I want to know how to do it so I can further improve my build.

I never said it was a good build and in your last post you were starting to get there, sorry for late editing.

This is what I get with Carrion, just over 10k with 0 healing power and as you can see I still have the stance and dodge there ready to use.https://imgur.com/ifIOt0XI prefer carrion because I can also do damage but Magi would work better if you only wanted barriers.

All of this to prove my opinion on why I personally don't think barriers will be buffed, as much as I hope they do. But with any luck you may have discovered another potential build for yourself.

[Azel.4786]

@sephiroth.4217 said:This is what I get with Carrion, just over 10k with 0 healing power and as you can see I still have the stance and dodge there ready to use.

https://imgur.com/ifIOt0X

I prefer carrion because I can also do damage but Magi would work better if you only wanted barriers.

All of this to prove my opinion on why I personally don't think barriers will be buffed, as much as I hope they do. But with any luck you may have discovered another potential build for yourself.

Out of curiosity, what skills did you use?

I just tried this out with what seems you have used (barrier on dual skill, barrier on dodge, stone resonance and Lava Skin) all with carrion amulet and disregarding the rune (which you did not post). You reach around 21-23k health (highest if with Master's Fortitude), but all the barrier I could get was a 6k (half of what you posted).

[sephiroth.4217]

@Azel.4786 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:This is what I get with Carrion, just over 10k with 0 healing power and as you can see I still have the stance and dodge there ready to use.

https://imgur.com/ifIOt0X

I prefer carrion because I can also do damage but Magi would work better if you only wanted barriers.

All of this to prove my opinion on why I personally don't think barriers will be buffed, as much as I hope they do. But with any luck you may have discovered another potential build for yourself.

Out of curiosity, what skills did you use?

I just tried this out with what seems you have used (barrier on dual skill, barrier on dodge, stone resonance and Lava Skin) all with carrion amulet and disregarding the rune (which you did not post). You reach around 21-23k health (highest if with Master's Fortitude), but all the barrier I could get was a 6k (half of what you posted).

23k health sounds about rightish, I timed it with the passive Barrier traits and used the Arcane shielding passive at 50% to help stack the barrier. That's all that is missing from your skill combo there. Is your 6k effected by any direct hits?

You sacrifice a lot in the Weaver trait line to do this build but you can probably see that too. Maybe use Melandru to help with conditions or something like dwayna that gives regen on passive procs. You might also need cleansing and purging sigils to help.

[Azel.4786]

@sephiroth.4217 said:23k health sounds about rightish, I timed it with the passive Barrier traits and used the Arcane shielding passive at 50% to help stack the barrier. That's all that is missing from your skill combo there. Is your 6k effected by any direct hits?

You sacrifice a lot in the Weaver trait line to do this build but you can probably see that too. Maybe use Melandru to help with conditions or something like dwayna that gives regen on passive procs. You might also need cleansing and purging sigils to help.

Hmmm, so basically you trigger double Earth Resonance with the passive trait (which should give what is missing to get up to the 10k barrier) - yeah that sounds possible, but agreed, highly inefficient.

You would need to use every single barrier giving ability (including all 3 traits that give it) - stacking them, to reach the 10k barrier. But it is such a heavy investment on that for a very very short duration that has a high CD to boot.

[Shadowflare.2759]

To be honest I think you guys are giving him too much credit. As soon as he started being passive aggressively defensive about "I can do it if you can't do it that's on you" and being vague about the build that he used (can't even remember the exact max HP of the build), it's getting fairly clear that he was just overexaggerating to begin with.

More importantly... the reality is that 12k barrier would just get bursted away in seconds in a team fight. So something you spent an insane amount of defensive skills on is no better than actual damage avoidance skills. Pretty sure there are plenty of room for barrier to be buffed still.

[sephiroth.4217]

@Azel.4786 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:23k health sounds about rightish, I timed it with the passive Barrier traits and used the Arcane shielding passive at 50% to help stack the barrier. That's all that is missing from your skill combo there. Is your 6k effected by any direct hits?

You sacrifice a lot in the Weaver trait line to do this build but you can probably see that too. Maybe use Melandru to help with conditions or something like dwayna that gives regen on passive procs. You might also need cleansing and purging sigils to help.

Hmmm, so basically you trigger double Earth Resonance with the passive trait (which should give what is missing to get up to the 10k barrier) - yeah that sounds possible, but agreed, highly inefficient.

You would need to use every single barrier giving ability (including all 3 traits that give it) - stacking them, to reach the 10k barrier. But it is such a heavy investment on that for a very very short duration that has a high CD to boot.

Yea I tried saying earlier it isn't all that viable but the whole point of this was because some people didn't believe it could be done at all.

[sephiroth.4217]

@Shadowflare.2759 said:To be honest I think you guys are giving him too much credit. As soon as he started being passive aggressively defensive about "I can do it if you can't do it that's on you" and being vague about the build that he used (can't even remember the exact max HP of the build), it's getting fairly clear that he was just overexaggerating to begin with.

More importantly... the reality is that 12k barrier would just get bursted away in seconds in a team fight. So something you spent an insane amount of defensive skills on is no better than actual damage avoidance skills. Pretty sure there are plenty of room for barrier to be buffed still.

I don't think barrier ele will get buffed.... Not when you can have 20k health followed up with 12k barrrier which is already 32k health to chew down if the barrier decay doesnt hit first. was my original post before it got dissected word for word. Being vague helps people, Kyon for example started to use his own brain to bring him there. Azel read the posts properly, took initiative and attempted this build himself and agreed that it's not really viable but thanks for reiterating on some points already made by myself and those who read the posts properly. I also agreed it could use a buff, I said that in an earlier post but it appears you didn't read that either.

Throw a bag of yeast on me and watch me explode in terms to your passive aggressive comment because it comes naturally when replying to these sort of posts.

[Shadowflare.2759]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Shadowflare.2759 said:To be honest I think you guys are giving him too much credit. As soon as he started being passive aggressively defensive about "I can do it if you can't do it that's on you" and being vague about the build that he used (can't even remember the exact max HP of the build), it's getting fairly clear that he was just overexaggerating to begin with.

More importantly... the reality is that 12k barrier would just get bursted away in seconds in a team fight. So something you spent an insane amount of defensive skills on is no better than actual damage avoidance skills. Pretty sure there are plenty of room for barrier to be buffed still.

I don't think barrier ele will get buffed.... Not when you can have 20k health followed up with 12k barrrier which is already 32k health to chew down if the barrier decay doesnt hit first.

was my original post before it got dissected word for word. Being vague helps people, Kyon for example started to use his own brain to bring him there. Azel read the posts properly, took initiative and attempted this build himself and agreed that it's not really viable but thanks for reiterating on some points already made by myself and those who read the posts properly. I also agreed it could use a buff, I said that in an earlier post but it appears you didn't read that either.

Throw a bag of yeast on me and watch me explode in terms to your passive aggressive comment because it comes naturally when replying to these sort of posts.

I did in fact read the posts. What I saw was you making an unsubstantiated claim that many others have found to be unrealistic. Since you refused to provide proof, obviously people will dissect your statements to determine its feasibility. Being vague in this case does nothing except to make you look uncredible since the onus is on you to prove to us that your premise is correct. Instead, as people analyzed your statement and problems arose, you just kept shifting and backtracking on your statements.

If you believe that barrier definitely still needs a buff, then I don't see why you would have pit arguements against it in the first place. Not only that, you then tried to defend those arguements.

[sephiroth.4217]

@Shadowflare.2759 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Shadowflare.2759 said:To be honest I think you guys are giving him too much credit. As soon as he started being passive aggressively defensive about "I can do it if you can't do it that's on you" and being vague about the build that he used (can't even remember the exact max HP of the build), it's getting fairly clear that he was just overexaggerating to begin with.

More importantly... the reality is that 12k barrier would just get bursted away in seconds in a team fight. So something you spent an insane amount of defensive skills on is no better than actual damage avoidance skills. Pretty sure there are plenty of room for barrier to be buffed still.

I don't think barrier ele will get buffed.... Not when you can have 20k health followed up with 12k barrrier which is already 32k health to chew down if the barrier decay doesnt hit first.

was my original post before it got dissected word for word. Being vague helps people, Kyon for example started to use his own brain to bring him there. Azel read the posts properly, took initiative and attempted this build himself and agreed that it's not really viable but thanks for reiterating on some points already made by myself and those who read the posts properly. I also agreed it could use a buff, I said that in an earlier post but it appears you didn't read that either.

Throw a bag of yeast on me and watch me explode in terms to your passive aggressive comment because it comes naturally when replying to these sort of posts.

I did in fact read the posts. What I saw was you making an unsubstantiated claim that many others have found to be unrealistic. Since you refused to provide proof, obviously people will dissect your statements to determine its feasibility. Being vague in this case does nothing except to make you look uncredible since the onus is on you to prove to us that your premise is correct. Instead, as people analyzed your statement and problems arose, you just kept shifting and backtracking on your statements.

If you believe that barrier definitely still needs a buff, then I don't see why you would have pit arguements against it in the first place. Not only that, you then tried to defend those arguements.

You remind me of my little brother, when I was younger and we all lived together, he used to come over to me and my friends during a conversation and put his opinion in, He would be in context as he heard a key word but he would be way off topic and we'd all look at him like "uuuuh ok". This is what you're coming off as right now so I do suggest reading the posts properly before making another false accusation or accidentally agreeing with me again.

For the last few years on Ele, all I've done is help others with the class the same way others helped me when I first started. https://imgur.com/Z0b6PFGso I really do think you are misreading these posts. If you're trying to troll, I'm sorry but I won't be the subject of your entertainment.

[Shadowflare.2759]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Shadowflare.2759 said:

I did in fact read the posts. What I saw was you making an unsubstantiated claim that many others have found to be unrealistic. Since you refused to provide proof, obviously people will dissect your statements to determine its feasibility. Being vague in this case does nothing except to make you look uncredible since the onus is on you to prove to us that your premise is correct. Instead, as people analyzed your statement and problems arose, you just kept shifting and backtracking on your statements.

If you believe that barrier definitely still needs a buff, then I don't see why you would have pit arguements against it in the first place. Not only that, you then tried to defend those arguements.

You remind me of my little brother, when I was younger and we all lived together, he used to come over to me and my friends during a conversation and put his opinion in, He would be in context as he heard a key word but he would be way off topic and we'd all look at him like "uuuuh ok". This is what you're coming off as right now so I do suggest reading the posts properly before making another false accusation or accidentally agreeing with me again.

For the last few years on Ele, all I've done is help others with the class the same way others helped me when I first started.

https://imgur.com/Z0b6PFG

so I really do think you are misreading these posts. If you're trying to troll, I'm sorry but I won't be the subject of your entertainment.

Hilarious. You can be patronizing and throw out personal attacks all you want. I've mained ele since headstart and followed its ups and downs, so I can tell a problematic statement when I see it. More to the point... My replies were in reference to the statement that you yourself quoted (which had sparked a page long analysis after you first posted it). If that's not in context, then I think you have a pretty weird definition of the word 'context'.

I don't really care who you are or what your intentions are either. The only thing that I'm addressing is the fact that you gave a claim that was mechanically impossible in game, and then instead of backing it up with evidence, you got strangely defensive. I'm not the only person who noticed. In fact, I saw your post the first time you wrote it, and I wouldn't have said anything had you not followed it up with the ensuing aggresiveness.

On top of that, what you claim was not only WRONG (mathematically proven by the posters in this thread, though you then changed your story about exact numbers...), it is something that COULD be used against any potential buffs to weaver barrier. God forbid an ignorant person, including a dev, comes in and reads it, then parrots that claim everywhere else. Eles have had it rough with lack of needed reworks, whether it be on the topic of scepter, conjure weapons, lack of cleansing outside of water...etc. We don't need a unsubstantiated claim like yours to throw a wrench into the mix. Simple as that.

I'd be glad to take back all of this if you're actually able to give concrete proof was to why that combo of yours is so good that it makes the chances of a barrier buff unlikely, because when you're talking about something that requires you to blow so many cooldowns, it's pretty obvious that even if you can stack barrier pretty high, it can easily still get buffs.

[Azel.4786]

@Shadowflare.2759 said:On top of that, what you claim was not only WRONG (mathematically proven by the posters in this thread, though you then changed your story about exact numbers...), it is something that COULD be used against any potential buffs to weaver barrier. God forbid an ignorant person, including a dev, comes in and reads it, then parrots that claim everywhere else. Eles have had it rough with lack of needed reworks, whether it be on the topic of scepter, conjure weapons, lack of cleansing outside of water...etc. We don't need a unsubstantiated claim like yours to throw a wrench into the mix. Simple as that.

Look, let us all stop wasting time fighting this.

His claim is actually not that absurd and all it takes is for you to get into the game and check it, actually I will even make it easier for everyone to stop this nonsense.

• Pick Carrion Amulet + Rune that gives Vitality (not healing power - you don't need it). With most anything (plus Adept 3) you should get around 23k-25k (which lets you have around 11k-12k barrier);

• Only trait you need to pick is Weaver, use 3, 3, 3 - You can literally ignore the rest for this test.

• Now to get the barrier:With 0 healing power, the skills show this:

• Dual Attack Trait: 378 barrier

• Barrier on Dodge: 778 barrier

• Lesser Stone Resonance trait: 5 * 650 barrier = 3250 barrier

• Earth Resonance Skill: 5 * 650 barrier = 3250 barrier

• Lava Skin Skill: Initial Barrier: 1018 barrier + 325 * 5 barrier = 2643 barrier

Add all of this up, you get: 10.299 barrier.

Now it is important to remember that Barrier does not decays if you are getting more barrier applied to you. Meaning as long as you use something that gives you barrier, you "refresh" the decay timer.

So you can dodge roll again, swap to get another dual skill, or just time it so you don't apply Stone Resonance and Lava Skin at the same time, but actually let them finish and then trigger the other (go Earth Resonance -> Lava Skin). This way you can make the barrier last long enough for your second Earth Resonance charge to refresh, thus getting another 3250 barrier - reaching the maximum barrier you can have (11k - 12k).

That being said, this is just dumb as fuck to do. You literally focus your attention to getting barrier, using dodges to get barrier and timing shit with your Major Trait all for the sake of getting the maximum amount of barrier to quickly start decaying after you got to the cap.

Hence why Barrier on Weaver is just dumb - it would greatly benefit you more to have Earth Resonance buffed to give more barrier, but with a longer CD for you to activate again. Thus possibly preventing this kitten to reach max barrier cap, but actually being more useful in a fight without so much needless effort for little gain.

The barrier application should also be faster and not pulsing (just make the decay slower to start), so that you can actually use it to protect against a burst.

[Shadowflare.2759]

@Azel.4786 said:

@Shadowflare.2759 said:On top of that, what you claim was not only WRONG (mathematically proven by the posters in this thread, though you then changed your story about exact numbers...), it is something that COULD be used against any potential buffs to weaver barrier. God forbid an ignorant person, including a dev, comes in and reads it, then parrots that claim everywhere else. Eles have had it rough with lack of needed reworks, whether it be on the topic of scepter, conjure weapons, lack of cleansing outside of water...etc. We don't need a unsubstantiated claim like yours to throw a wrench into the mix. Simple as that.

Look, let us all stop wasting time fighting this.

His claim is actually not that absurd and all it takes is for you to get into the game and check it, actually I will even make it easier for everyone to stop this nonsense.

• Pick Carrion Amulet + Rune that gives Vitality (not healing power - you don't need it). With most anything (plus Adept 3) you should get around 23k-25k (which lets you have around 11k-12k barrier);

• Only trait you need to pick is Weaver, use 3, 3, 3 - You can literally ignore the rest for this test.

• Now to get the barrier:With 0 healing power, the skills show this:

• Dual Attack Trait: 378 barrier

• Barrier on Dodge: 778 barrier

• Lesser Stone Resonance trait: 5 * 650 barrier = 3250 barrier

• Earth Resonance Skill: 5 * 650 barrier = 3250 barrier

• Lava Skin Skill: Initial Barrier: 1018 barrier + 325 * 5 barrier = 2643 barrier

Add all of this up, you get: 10.299 barrier.

Now it is important to remember that Barrier does not decays if you are getting more barrier applied to you. Meaning as long as you use something that gives you barrier, you "refresh" the decay timer.

So you can dodge roll again, swap to get another dual skill, or just time it so you don't apply Stone Resonance and Lava Skin at the same time, but actually let them finish and then trigger the other (go Earth Resonance -> Lava Skin). This way you can make the barrier last long enough for your second Earth Resonance charge to refresh, thus getting another 3250 barrier - reaching the maximum barrier you can have (11k - 12k).

That being said, this is just kitten as kitten to do. You literally focus your attention to getting barrier, using dodges to get barrier and timing kitten with your Major Trait all for the sake of getting the maximum amount of barrier to quickly start decaying after you got to the cap.

Hence why Barrier on Weaver is just kitten - it would greatly benefit you more to have Earth Resonance buffed to give more barrier, but with a longer CD for you to activate again. Thus possibly preventing this kitten to reach max barrier cap, but actually being more useful in a fight without so much needless effort for little gain.

The barrier application should also be faster and not pulsing (just make the decay slower to start), so that you can actually use it to protect against a burst.

Thank you for finally giving the solid numbers.

[Azel.4786]

Also, I might add that I am incredibly iffy about having 2 utilities that have the same purpose - surviving and attack - with Twist of Fate having some utility with its stun break and being vastly better at the surviving (dodges).

We ended up with 2 survival skills (1 average and 1 kitten), 1 worthless skill (unravel), 1 somewhat decent for condi specs (although I am still not convinced that it is that good (I think signet of fire and glyph of storms and an arcane precision traited to cause burning are vastly superior for condi spec)

[sephiroth.4217]

@Azel.4786 said:

@Shadowflare.2759 said:On top of that, what you claim was not only WRONG (mathematically proven by the posters in this thread, though you then changed your story about exact numbers...), it is something that COULD be used against any potential buffs to weaver barrier. God forbid an ignorant person, including a dev, comes in and reads it, then parrots that claim everywhere else. Eles have had it rough with lack of needed reworks, whether it be on the topic of scepter, conjure weapons, lack of cleansing outside of water...etc. We don't need a unsubstantiated claim like yours to throw a wrench into the mix. Simple as that.

Look, let us all stop wasting time fighting this.

His claim is actually not that absurd and all it takes is for you to get into the game and check it, actually I will even make it easier for everyone to stop this nonsense.

• Pick Carrion Amulet + Rune that gives Vitality (not healing power - you don't need it). With most anything (plus Adept 3) you should get around 23k-25k (which lets you have around 11k-12k barrier);

• Only trait you need to pick is Weaver, use 3, 3, 3 - You can literally ignore the rest for this test.

• Now to get the barrier:With 0 healing power, the skills show this:

• Dual Attack Trait: 378 barrier

• Barrier on Dodge: 778 barrier

• Lesser Stone Resonance trait: 5 * 650 barrier = 3250 barrier

• Earth Resonance Skill: 5 * 650 barrier = 3250 barrier

• Lava Skin Skill: Initial Barrier: 1018 barrier + 325 * 5 barrier = 2643 barrier

Add all of this up, you get: 10.299 barrier.

Now it is important to remember that Barrier does not decays if you are getting more barrier applied to you. Meaning as long as you use something that gives you barrier, you "refresh" the decay timer.

So you can dodge roll again, swap to get another dual skill, or just time it so you don't apply Stone Resonance and Lava Skin at the same time, but actually let them finish and then trigger the other (go Earth Resonance -> Lava Skin). This way you can make the barrier last long enough for your second Earth Resonance charge to refresh, thus getting another 3250 barrier - reaching the maximum barrier you can have (11k - 12k).

That being said, this is just kitten as kitten to do. You literally focus your attention to getting barrier, using dodges to get barrier and timing kitten with your Major Trait all for the sake of getting the maximum amount of barrier to quickly start decaying after you got to the cap.

Hence why Barrier on Weaver is just kitten - it would greatly benefit you more to have Earth Resonance buffed to give more barrier, but with a longer CD for you to activate again. Thus possibly preventing this kitten to reach max barrier cap, but actually being more useful in a fight without so much needless effort for little gain.

The barrier application should also be faster and not pulsing (just make the decay slower to start), so that you can actually use it to protect against a burst.

Thank you for putting the effort in to consolidate it into one condensed post.

I have a feeling Devs have been watching this conversation about barriers as we should have been moderated by now from the thread derailment off sword. With any luck they might consider tweaking barrier mechanics.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I just did a few DPS tests. Unrealistic buffs, no food, full berserker, large target. Only did 32k DPS with sword/dagger while swapping between fire and air, using the conjures to fill empty space.

[juno.1840]

@Shadowflare.2759 said:

@Azel.4786 said:

@Shadowflare.2759 said:On top of that, what you claim was not only WRONG (mathematically proven by the posters in this thread, though you then changed your story about exact numbers...), it is something that COULD be used against any potential buffs to weaver barrier. God forbid an ignorant person, including a dev, comes in and reads it, then parrots that claim everywhere else. Eles have had it rough with lack of needed reworks, whether it be on the topic of scepter, conjure weapons, lack of cleansing outside of water...etc. We don't need a unsubstantiated claim like yours to throw a wrench into the mix. Simple as that.

Look, let us all stop wasting time fighting this.

His claim is actually not that absurd and all it takes is for you to get into the game and check it, actually I will even make it easier for everyone to stop this nonsense.

• Pick Carrion Amulet + Rune that gives Vitality (not healing power - you don't need it). With most anything (plus Adept 3) you should get around 23k-25k (which lets you have around 11k-12k barrier);

• Only trait you need to pick is Weaver, use 3, 3, 3 - You can literally ignore the rest for this test.

• Now to get the barrier:With 0 healing power, the skills show this:

• Dual Attack Trait: 378 barrier

• Barrier on Dodge: 778 barrier

• Lesser Stone Resonance trait: 5 * 650 barrier = 3250 barrier

• Earth Resonance Skill: 5 * 650 barrier = 3250 barrier

• Lava Skin Skill: Initial Barrier: 1018 barrier + 325 * 5 barrier = 2643 barrier

Add all of this up, you get: 10.299 barrier.

Now it is important to remember that Barrier does not decays if you are getting more barrier applied to you. Meaning as long as you use something that gives you barrier, you "refresh" the decay timer.

So you can dodge roll again, swap to get another dual skill, or just time it so you don't apply Stone Resonance and Lava Skin at the same time, but actually let them finish and then trigger the other (go Earth Resonance -> Lava Skin). This way you can make the barrier last long enough for your second Earth Resonance charge to refresh, thus getting another 3250 barrier - reaching the maximum barrier you can have (11k - 12k).

That being said, this is just kitten as kitten to do. You literally focus your attention to getting barrier, using dodges to get barrier and timing kitten with your Major Trait all for the sake of getting the maximum amount of barrier to quickly start decaying after you got to the cap.

Hence why Barrier on Weaver is just kitten - it would greatly benefit you more to have Earth Resonance buffed to give more barrier, but with a longer CD for you to activate again. Thus possibly preventing this kitten to reach max barrier cap, but actually being more useful in a fight without so much needless effort for little gain.

The barrier application should also be faster and not pulsing (just make the decay slower to start), so that you can actually use it to protect against a burst.

Thank you for finally giving the solid numbers.

lol, I posted "solid" numbers back on October 1st you nubs...

@juno.1840 said:I see, you're adding the total barrier over time -- that's a lot different than saying "you can have 20k health followed up with a 12k barrier". I could say I have 100k barrier (but that barrier is applied over 30 minutes). Here's the barriers you listed at 1500 healing power:

• Lava Skin = 940 + 470 x 5 = 3290 over 5 seconds (18s cooldown)
• Stone Resonance = 795 * 5 = 3975 over 5 seconds (5s cooldown, 50s recharge)
• Dodge = 1734
• Dual Skill activation = 740
• Bolstered Elements - same as Stone Resonance, but this is outside your control since it fires at 50% health

So if you hit stone resonance (charge #1), molten armor, dodge, dodge, and stone resonance (charge #2)... you'll be pushing out 15448 in total barrier over 10 seconds (5s cooldown on Stone Resonance). That's roughly 1550 per second.

It looks pretty good, but you unloaded every defensive skill you could, and all your energy. You'll get another dodge back pretty quick with Vigor. Lava Skin is 18s cooldown, and Stone Resonance is 50s cooldown for one charge, 100s before you get back both charges.

Keep in mind a single stack of burn from a condi-spec'd class is going to chew through 350 per second. Blowing all your cooldowns gave you enough barrier to fend off 4 stacks of burn for 10 seconds.

[Kyon.9735]

@Azel.4786 said:

@Shadowflare.2759 said:On top of that, what you claim was not only WRONG (mathematically proven by the posters in this thread, though you then changed your story about exact numbers...), it is something that COULD be used against any potential buffs to weaver barrier. God forbid an ignorant person, including a dev, comes in and reads it, then parrots that claim everywhere else. Eles have had it rough with lack of needed reworks, whether it be on the topic of scepter, conjure weapons, lack of cleansing outside of water...etc. We don't need a unsubstantiated claim like yours to throw a wrench into the mix. Simple as that.

Look, let us all stop wasting time fighting this.

His claim is actually not that absurd and all it takes is for you to get into the game and check it, actually I will even make it easier for everyone to stop this nonsense.

• Pick Carrion Amulet + Rune that gives Vitality (not healing power - you don't need it). With most anything (plus Adept 3) you should get around 23k-25k (which lets you have around 11k-12k barrier);

• Only trait you need to pick is Weaver, use 3, 3, 3 - You can literally ignore the rest for this test.

• Now to get the barrier:With 0 healing power, the skills show this:

• Dual Attack Trait: 378 barrier

• Barrier on Dodge: 778 barrier

• Lesser Stone Resonance trait: 5 * 650 barrier = 3250 barrier

• Earth Resonance Skill: 5 * 650 barrier = 3250 barrier

• Lava Skin Skill: Initial Barrier: 1018 barrier + 325 * 5 barrier = 2643 barrier

Add all of this up, you get: 10.299 barrier.

Now it is important to remember that Barrier does not decays if you are getting more barrier applied to you. Meaning as long as you use something that gives you barrier, you "refresh" the decay timer.

So you can dodge roll again, swap to get another dual skill, or just time it so you don't apply Stone Resonance and Lava Skin at the same time, but actually let them finish and then trigger the other (go Earth Resonance -> Lava Skin). This way you can make the barrier last long enough for your second Earth Resonance charge to refresh, thus getting another 3250 barrier - reaching the maximum barrier you can have (11k - 12k).

That being said, this is just kitten as kitten to do. You literally focus your attention to getting barrier, using dodges to get barrier and timing kitten with your Major Trait all for the sake of getting the maximum amount of barrier to quickly start decaying after you got to the cap.

Hence why Barrier on Weaver is just kitten - it would greatly benefit you more to have Earth Resonance buffed to give more barrier, but with a longer CD for you to activate again. Thus possibly preventing this kitten to reach max barrier cap, but actually being more useful in a fight without so much needless effort for little gain.

The barrier application should also be faster and not pulsing (just make the decay slower to start), so that you can actually use it to protect against a burst.

Thanks. I claimed that it was impossible because was under the impression that he did it under these conditions:

• He did it in a match wherein he would obviously be using those skills in the middle of the fight. Barrier Decay aside, he'd get hit by random attacks/condis which would reduce the final barrier HP.• It was stated that not all defensive skills were used.

It's still not a 12k barrier like originally claimed but I understand the gist of it. I won't ask anymore how he attained those numbers without using all defensive CDs while you used everything in your computation to reach somewhere near because we'd be back at step 1. I guess he simply might have unintentionally exaggerated the numbers but most of us took it seriously and technically so it's all good for me at least. Cheers.

That aside, I still think barrier mechanics need some tweaks. The barrier HP is somewhat insignificant at least for sword weaver because it's a pure melee spec and would obviously be eating random attacks and condis unless of course we'd blow every barrier related skill at a single instance for some reason.

[sephiroth.4217]

@Kyon.9735 said:

@Azel.4786 said:

@Shadowflare.2759 said:On top of that, what you claim was not only WRONG (mathematically proven by the posters in this thread, though you then changed your story about exact numbers...), it is something that COULD be used against any potential buffs to weaver barrier. God forbid an ignorant person, including a dev, comes in and reads it, then parrots that claim everywhere else. Eles have had it rough with lack of needed reworks, whether it be on the topic of scepter, conjure weapons, lack of cleansing outside of water...etc. We don't need a unsubstantiated claim like yours to throw a wrench into the mix. Simple as that.

Look, let us all stop wasting time fighting this.

His claim is actually not that absurd and all it takes is for you to get into the game and check it, actually I will even make it easier for everyone to stop this nonsense.

• Pick Carrion Amulet + Rune that gives Vitality (not healing power - you don't need it). With most anything (plus Adept 3) you should get around 23k-25k (which lets you have around 11k-12k barrier);

• Only trait you need to pick is Weaver, use 3, 3, 3 - You can literally ignore the rest for this test.

• Now to get the barrier:With 0 healing power, the skills show this:

• Dual Attack Trait: 378 barrier

• Barrier on Dodge: 778 barrier

• Lesser Stone Resonance trait: 5 * 650 barrier = 3250 barrier

• Earth Resonance Skill: 5 * 650 barrier = 3250 barrier

• Lava Skin Skill: Initial Barrier: 1018 barrier + 325 * 5 barrier = 2643 barrier

Add all of this up, you get: 10.299 barrier.

Now it is important to remember that Barrier does not decays if you are getting more barrier applied to you. Meaning as long as you use something that gives you barrier, you "refresh" the decay timer.

So you can dodge roll again, swap to get another dual skill, or just time it so you don't apply Stone Resonance and Lava Skin at the same time, but actually let them finish and then trigger the other (go Earth Resonance -> Lava Skin). This way you can make the barrier last long enough for your second Earth Resonance charge to refresh, thus getting another 3250 barrier - reaching the maximum barrier you can have (11k - 12k).

That being said, this is just kitten as kitten to do. You literally focus your attention to getting barrier, using dodges to get barrier and timing kitten with your Major Trait all for the sake of getting the maximum amount of barrier to quickly start decaying after you got to the cap.

Hence why Barrier on Weaver is just kitten - it would greatly benefit you more to have Earth Resonance buffed to give more barrier, but with a longer CD for you to activate again. Thus possibly preventing this kitten to reach max barrier cap, but actually being more useful in a fight without so much needless effort for little gain.

The barrier application should also be faster and not pulsing (just make the decay slower to start), so that you can actually use it to protect against a burst.

Thanks. I claimed that it was impossible because was under the impression that he did it under these conditions:

• He did it in a match wherein he would obviously be using those skills in the middle of the fight. Barrier Decay aside, he'd get hit by random attacks/condis which would reduce the final barrier HP.• It was stated that not all defensive skills were used.

It's still not a 12k barrier like originally claimed but I understand the gist of it. I won't ask anymore how he attained those numbers without using all defensive CDs while you used everything in your computation to reach somewhere near because we'd be back at step 1. I guess he simply might have unintentionally exaggerated the numbers but most of us took it seriously and technically so it's all good for me at least. Cheers.

That aside, I still think barrier mechanics need some tweaks. The barrier HP is somewhat insignificant at least for sword weaver because it's a pure melee spec and would obviously be eating random attacks and condis unless of course we'd blow every barrier related skill at a single instance for some reason.

I face palmed just then... I showed a picture with 10k barrier with a dodge and stance still available to use on a carrion ammy that would put you at 12k+ but what ever... dead horse is dead. I am glad you guys were able to get the gist of it though, I'm sorry I have a weird way of communicating it can be difficult to understand even at the best of times and it can be quite easy to misinterpret.... I think using a Magi noodle build will get you higher and faster but I'm rather excited to see barrier mechanics with the new ammies coming out. The best tweak that has been suggested was this: The barrier application should also be faster and not pulsing (just make the decay slower to start), so that you can actually use it to protect against a burst.

[Kyon.9735]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Kyon.9735 said:

@Azel.4786 said:

@Shadowflare.2759 said:On top of that, what you claim was not only WRONG (mathematically proven by the posters in this thread, though you then changed your story about exact numbers...), it is something that COULD be used against any potential buffs to weaver barrier. God forbid an ignorant person, including a dev, comes in and reads it, then parrots that claim everywhere else. Eles have had it rough with lack of needed reworks, whether it be on the topic of scepter, conjure weapons, lack of cleansing outside of water...etc. We don't need a unsubstantiated claim like yours to throw a wrench into the mix. Simple as that.

Look, let us all stop wasting time fighting this.

His claim is actually not that absurd and all it takes is for you to get into the game and check it, actually I will even make it easier for everyone to stop this nonsense.

• Pick Carrion Amulet + Rune that gives Vitality (not healing power - you don't need it). With most anything (plus Adept 3) you should get around 23k-25k (which lets you have around 11k-12k barrier);

• Only trait you need to pick is Weaver, use 3, 3, 3 - You can literally ignore the rest for this test.

• Now to get the barrier:With 0 healing power, the skills show this:

• Dual Attack Trait: 378 barrier

• Barrier on Dodge: 778 barrier

• Lesser Stone Resonance trait: 5 * 650 barrier = 3250 barrier

• Earth Resonance Skill: 5 * 650 barrier = 3250 barrier

• Lava Skin Skill: Initial Barrier: 1018 barrier + 325 * 5 barrier = 2643 barrier

Add all of this up, you get: 10.299 barrier.

Now it is important to remember that Barrier does not decays if you are getting more barrier applied to you. Meaning as long as you use something that gives you barrier, you "refresh" the decay timer.

So you can dodge roll again, swap to get another dual skill, or just time it so you don't apply Stone Resonance and Lava Skin at the same time, but actually let them finish and then trigger the other (go Earth Resonance -> Lava Skin). This way you can make the barrier last long enough for your second Earth Resonance charge to refresh, thus getting another 3250 barrier - reaching the maximum barrier you can have (11k - 12k).

That being said, this is just kitten as kitten to do. You literally focus your attention to getting barrier, using dodges to get barrier and timing kitten with your Major Trait all for the sake of getting the maximum amount of barrier to quickly start decaying after you got to the cap.

Hence why Barrier on Weaver is just kitten - it would greatly benefit you more to have Earth Resonance buffed to give more barrier, but with a longer CD for you to activate again. Thus possibly preventing this kitten to reach max barrier cap, but actually being more useful in a fight without so much needless effort for little gain.

The barrier application should also be faster and not pulsing (just make the decay slower to start), so that you can actually use it to protect against a burst.

Thanks. I claimed that it was impossible because was under the impression that he did it under these conditions:

• He did it in a match wherein he would obviously be using those skills in the middle of the fight. Barrier Decay aside, he'd get hit by random attacks/condis which would reduce the final barrier HP.• It was stated that not all defensive skills were used.

It's still not a 12k barrier like originally claimed but I understand the gist of it. I won't ask anymore how he attained those numbers without using all defensive CDs while you used everything in your computation to reach somewhere near because we'd be back at step 1. I guess he simply might have unintentionally exaggerated the numbers but most of us took it seriously and technically so it's all good for me at least. Cheers.

That aside, I still think barrier mechanics need some tweaks. The barrier HP is somewhat insignificant at least for sword weaver because it's a pure melee spec and would obviously be eating random attacks and condis unless of course we'd blow every barrier related skill at a single instance for some reason.

I face palmed just then... I showed a picture with 10k barrier with a dodge and stance still available to use on a carrion ammy that would put you at 12k+ but what ever... dead horse is dead. I am glad you guys were able to get the gist of it though, I'm sorry I have a weird way of communicating it can be difficult to understand even at the best of times and it can be quite easy to misinterpret.... I think using a Magi noodle build will get you higher and faster but I'm rather excited to see barrier mechanics with the new ammies coming out. The best tweak that has been suggested was this:

The barrier application should also be faster and not pulsing (just make the decay slower to start), so that you can actually use it to protect against a burst.

Yeah, mainly I had 2 qualms about your statements:

1. What rotations/amulets did you use to make that possible?
2. How did you get 12k when 10k should be the maximum barrier HP if you had 20k max HP?

You already answered 1 and proved it with a screenshot. By looking at that screenshot, I was able to answer 2 - the 12k barrier was unintentionally exaggerated by a small amount. The way you answered made it look like that you were able to get past the 50% HP threshold (aka you beat the system) so I was skeptical but now I believe it was just an honest mistake on your part to claim 12k instead of 10k.

All is good though. This made me realize how to improve my build and the potential of barriers without investing at Healing Power. And yeah, I agree that it shouldn't be pulsing so it can be used to negate bursts.

[sephiroth.4217]

@Kyon.9735 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Kyon.9735 said:

@Azel.4786 said:

@Shadowflare.2759 said:On top of that, what you claim was not only WRONG (mathematically proven by the posters in this thread, though you then changed your story about exact numbers...), it is something that COULD be used against any potential buffs to weaver barrier. God forbid an ignorant person, including a dev, comes in and reads it, then parrots that claim everywhere else. Eles have had it rough with lack of needed reworks, whether it be on the topic of scepter, conjure weapons, lack of cleansing outside of water...etc. We don't need a unsubstantiated claim like yours to throw a wrench into the mix. Simple as that.

Look, let us all stop wasting time fighting this.

His claim is actually not that absurd and all it takes is for you to get into the game and check it, actually I will even make it easier for everyone to stop this nonsense.

• Pick Carrion Amulet + Rune that gives Vitality (not healing power - you don't need it). With most anything (plus Adept 3) you should get around 23k-25k (which lets you have around 11k-12k barrier);

• Only trait you need to pick is Weaver, use 3, 3, 3 - You can literally ignore the rest for this test.

• Now to get the barrier:With 0 healing power, the skills show this:

• Dual Attack Trait: 378 barrier

• Barrier on Dodge: 778 barrier

• Lesser Stone Resonance trait: 5 * 650 barrier = 3250 barrier

• Earth Resonance Skill: 5 * 650 barrier = 3250 barrier

• Lava Skin Skill: Initial Barrier: 1018 barrier + 325 * 5 barrier = 2643 barrier

Add all of this up, you get: 10.299 barrier.

Now it is important to remember that Barrier does not decays if you are getting more barrier applied to you. Meaning as long as you use something that gives you barrier, you "refresh" the decay timer.

So you can dodge roll again, swap to get another dual skill, or just time it so you don't apply Stone Resonance and Lava Skin at the same time, but actually let them finish and then trigger the other (go Earth Resonance -> Lava Skin). This way you can make the barrier last long enough for your second Earth Resonance charge to refresh, thus getting another 3250 barrier - reaching the maximum barrier you can have (11k - 12k).

That being said, this is just kitten as kitten to do. You literally focus your attention to getting barrier, using dodges to get barrier and timing kitten with your Major Trait all for the sake of getting the maximum amount of barrier to quickly start decaying after you got to the cap.

Hence why Barrier on Weaver is just kitten - it would greatly benefit you more to have Earth Resonance buffed to give more barrier, but with a longer CD for you to activate again. Thus possibly preventing this kitten to reach max barrier cap, but actually being more useful in a fight without so much needless effort for little gain.

The barrier application should also be faster and not pulsing (just make the decay slower to start), so that you can actually use it to protect against a burst.

Thanks. I claimed that it was impossible because was under the impression that he did it under these conditions:

• He did it in a match wherein he would obviously be using those skills in the middle of the fight. Barrier Decay aside, he'd get hit by random attacks/condis which would reduce the final barrier HP.• It was stated that not all defensive skills were used.

It's still not a 12k barrier like originally claimed but I understand the gist of it. I won't ask anymore how he attained those numbers without using all defensive CDs while you used everything in your computation to reach somewhere near because we'd be back at step 1. I guess he simply might have unintentionally exaggerated the numbers but most of us took it seriously and technically so it's all good for me at least. Cheers.

That aside, I still think barrier mechanics need some tweaks. The barrier HP is somewhat insignificant at least for sword weaver because it's a pure melee spec and would obviously be eating random attacks and condis unless of course we'd blow every barrier related skill at a single instance for some reason.

I face palmed just then... I showed a picture with 10k barrier with a dodge and stance still available to use on a carrion ammy that would put you at 12k+ but what ever... dead horse is dead. I am glad you guys were able to get the gist of it though, I'm sorry I have a weird way of communicating it can be difficult to understand even at the best of times and it can be quite easy to misinterpret.... I think using a Magi noodle build will get you higher and faster but I'm rather excited to see barrier mechanics with the new ammies coming out. The best tweak that has been suggested was this:

The barrier application should also be faster and not pulsing (just make the decay slower to start), so that you can actually use it to protect against a burst.

Yeah, mainly I had 2 qualms about your statements:

1. What rotations/amulets did you use to make that possible?
2. How did you get 12k when 10k should be the maximum barrier HP if you had 20k max HP?

You already answered 1 and proved it with a screenshot. By looking at that screenshot, I was able to answer 2 - the 12k barrier was unintentionally exaggerated by a small amount. The way you answered made it look like that you were able to get past the 50% HP threshold (aka you beat the system) so I was skeptical but now I believe it was just an honest mistake on your part to claim 12k instead of 10k.

All is good though. This made me realize how to improve my build and the potential of barriers without investing at Healing Power. And yeah, I agree that it shouldn't be pulsing so it can be used to negate bursts.

Oh no I never went past the threshold and the 12k is only obtainable if you take carrion + sword trait + vitality runes but by then you got an even worse build than before. I was mostly just trying to say the healing values of barrier might not need buffing with what it can achieve already but it could certainly use a buff in other areas especially since they designed Weaver to be a melee spec.

[Waisenpai.6028]

In wvw if you use weaver with sword you're just too slow to fight a equal skill level vanilla Warrior or SB and you won't beat a DH , or a Scourage. Atmost you out buik the latter and than you get killed. In team fights you are ok in wvw but that' means you are being carried. The attacks are so telegraphed if warrior complain about their nerfs tell them to play weaver and try to roam. I just swap to core ele and I can moved down a weaver. That should never happend, it's very pretty and has nice skills but not reliable and rotations are too slow to work with arcane trait line unless you just want to spam water sword 2 all day and use focus. T.T

PSThanks for fixing signet of restoration.

Can you also boost core ele but not in raids.

[Waisenpai.6028]

Yeah wet noodle!