[Elite Suggestion] Rebirth

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

Adept Minor Trait (New life, Same Magic)Unlock Torch for your main-hand and allow you to use Glyphs.Replace Death Shroud with Phoenix Shroud.Replace your life force with Phoenix Force.

Adept Major Trait LineMajor Trait 1 (Burn the Rot Away)When you remove/convert/transfer conditions from yourself, then you will burn (1 stack for 3 sec) nearby enemies. Radius: 600.Major Trait 2 (Reborn from Embers)While you are bellow 50% of your maximum health your healing abilities will heal for 20% more.Major Trait 3 (Blazemaker)Fury on you will also grant you 150 power. Your torch skills will recharge 10% faster.

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Master Minor Trait (Avatar of Immortal Flame)Heal yourself for 1000 (scales with healing power) health when you reach full phoenix force and when you ran out of out phoenix force. Cooldown: 10 sec.

Master Major Trait LineMajor Trait 4 (Ash Eater)Burns you apply will heal you for 10% of damage they deal and will last 10% longer.Major Trait 5 (Rapid Rebirth)When you get downed you will slowly consume your remaining phoenix force to revive yourself. Consume 1000 phoenix force per sec to revive for 10%.Major Trait 6 (On the Wings of Eternity)Gain fury for 5 sec when you disable an enemy. Gain 3 sec of fury when you cast a glyph.

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Grandmaster Minor Trait (Dreadful Flash of Black and White)Blind nearby enemies for 2 sec when you enter or exist phoenix shroud. Radius: 600.

Grandmaster Major Trait LineMajor Trait 7 (Glimmer in Ashes)Stacking up to 4 or more burns on a single enemy will grant you 10% of your maximum phoenix force. Cooldown: 15 sec.Major Trait 8 (Eternal Flame Consumes All)Your F2 now will also consume all conditions on you turning them into bonus healing over time. Gain bonus 100 (scales with healing power) health healed over 10 sec per condition consumed.Major Trait 9 (King Among the Blind)Gain 150 ferocity while you have fury. Your blinds will also remove 1 boon from blinded enemy (cooldown: 5 sec).

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F1 (Phoenix Shroud)Enter into fiery shroud mode. While in this mode your life force do not drain passively and the damage you take will betaken from your life. While in this shroud you will use life phoenic force to use abilities. Exit this shroud when you run out of phoenix force to use at least one ability or by reactivating this ability. You can use elite, healing and utility glyphs while in this shroud.

• Cooldown: 10 sec

F2 (Phoenix Rebirth)Consume all your phoenix force and convert it into healing over 10 sec. 60% of phoenix force turn into health.

• Cooldown: 50 sec

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Torch 1 (Hellfire Sphere)Summon a fiery skull to circle around you and deal damage to every enemy it touch. Each skull will lasts until it makes 2 full revolutions.

• Casting time: 3/4 sec
• Radius: 240
• Damage: 300 (scales with power)
• Time to perform 1 revolution: 2 sec
• Gain phoenix force per enemy hit per orb: 1/2% of your maximum phoenix force
• Projectile

Torch 2 (The Darkest Light)Blind nearby enemies with dreadful light and also apply burning on them.

• Casting time: 1/2 sec
• Cooldown: 15 sec
• Radius: 600
• Blind: 5 sec
• Burn: 1 stack for 4 sec
• Gain phoenix force per enemy hit: 1% of your maximum phoenix force
• Blast combo finisher

Torch 3 (Corrupted Phoenix)Release a fiery ghast in front of you and gain fury. Ghast fill hit first enemy in its path, damage it, burn it and daze it.

• Casting time: 1/4 sec
• Cooldown: 14 sec
• Range: 900
• Fury: 5 sec
• Damage: 700 (scales with power)
• Burn: 2 stacks for 3 sec
• Daze: 2 sec
• Gain phoenix force if ghast hits an enemy: 5% of your maximum phoenix force
• Projectile

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Shroud 1 (March of Fire)Charge short distance (to your target) and deal damage to all enemies you meet. This ability can be used without sufficient phoenix force as this ability will be performed and you will exist the shroud.

• Casting time: 1/2 sec
• Phoenix force cost: 300
• Range: 300
• Damage: 600 (scales with power)

Shroud 2 (White Flame Explosion)Dash forward and release fiery explosion from yourself damaging nearby enemies and knocking them back.

• Casting time: 1/4 sec
• Phoenix force cost: 1500
• Cooldown: 10 sec
• Range of dash: 600
• Radius: 450
• Damage: 500 (scales with power)
• Knock back distance: 500

Shroud 3 (Dark Ash Implosion)Taunt nearby enemies to attack you and gain a stack of stability per enemy taunted. Burning enemies will be feared instead.

• Casting time: instant
• Phoenix force cost: 3000
• Cooldown: 15 sec
• Radius: 600
• Taunt: 2 sec
• Stability: 5 sec
• Fear: 2 sec

Shroud 4 (Raging Meltdown)Release a burst of fiery hell after a short delay to burn nearby enemies.

• Casting time: instant
• Phoenix force cost: 1500
• Cooldown: 5 sec
• Delay: 2 sec
• Radius: 450
• Burning: 2 stacks for 6 sec

Shroud 5 (Wings on the Black and White)Turn into dark phoenix and jump into targeted area while evading. When you land, then burn all nearby enemies and convert conditions on you into boons.

• Casting time: 1/2 sec
• Phoenix force cost: 5000
• Cooldown: 15 sec
• Range: 1200
• Radius: 300
• Evasion: 3/4 sec
• Burn: 2 stacks for 5 sec
• Conditions converted into boons: 3

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Healing glyph (Glyph of Rebirth)While not in shroud. Heal yourself and convert one condition on you into regeneration.

• Casting time: 1/2 sec
• Cooldown: 20 sec
• Healing: 3300 (scales with healing power)
• Regeneration: 10 sec

While in shroud. Consume some of you phoenix force to heal yourself and become invulnerable to all damage for several seconds.

• Casting time: 1/2 sec
• Cooldown: 20 sec
• Phoenix force cost: 1000
• Healing: 4000 (scales with healing power)
• Invulnerability: 2 sec

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Utility glyph 1 (Glyph of Phoenix's Freedom)While not in shroud. Remove all movement impairing conditions from your self and gain swiftness.

• Casting time: instant
• Cooldown: 20 sec
• Swiftness: 4 sec
• Stunbreaker

While in shroud. Consume some phoenix force to burn endurance away from nearby enemies.

• Casting time: instant
• Cooldown: 20 sec
• Phoenix force cost: 800
• Radius: 600
• Endurance removed: 50
• Stunbreaker

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Utility glyph 2 (Glyph of Weakening Ash)While not in shroud. Blind and cripple nearby enemies.

• Casting time: 1/4 sec
• Cooldown: 10 sec
• Radius: 600
• Blind: 3 sec
• Cripple: 5 sec

While in shroud. Consume some phoenix force to inflict vulnerability on nearby enemies.

• Casting time: 1/4 sec
• Cooldown: 10 sec
• Phoenix force cost: 1000
• Vulnerability: 10 stacks for 10 sec
• Radius: 600

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Utility glyph 3 (Glyph of Blazing Supremacy)While not in shroud. Gain fury, might and quickness.

• Casting time: instant
• Cooldown: 30 sec
• Fury: 5 sec
• Might: 3 stacks for 10 sec
• Quickness: 3 sec

While in shroud. Consume some phoenix force to stun your target.

• Casting time: instant
• Cooldown: 30 sec
• Phoenix force cost: 2000
• Stun: 2 sec
• Range: 900

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Utility glyph 4 (Glyph of Kinetic Energy)While not in shroud. Heal yourself.

• Casting time: instant
• Cooldown: 25 sec
• Healing: 1000 (scales with healing power)

While in shroud. Consume some phoenix force and pull all nearby enemies to you.

• Casting time: instant
• Cooldown: 25 sec
• Phoenix force cost: 3000
• Radius: 600

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Elite glyph (Glyph of Corrupted Sun)While not in shroud. Gain immunity to all damage, remove/reflect all conditions, reflect all projectiles and heal yourself while channeling.

• Casting time: instant
• Channel duration 2 sec
• Cooldown: 90 sec
• Healing per sec: 2000 (scales with healing power)

While in shroud. Consume some phoenix force to call down dreadful solar flare to rain down in targeted area dealing damage to enemies inside it and burn them.

• Casting time: instant
• Cooldown: 90 sec
• Phoenix force cost: 5000
• Range: 1200
• Radius: 450
• Duration: 2 sec
• Damage per 0.5 sec: 500 (scales with power)
• Burn per 0.5 sec: 1 stack for 8 sec

---

Update (2018-03-30): changed up some traits, updated torch skills and shroud skills, and reworked some of the glyph effects.

[Bleyd.9470]

wow dude, you never stop lol

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

@Bleyd.9470 said:wow dude, you never stop lol

No, i don't.

[Dadnir.5038]

Outside of trait 9 which don't seem very fitting, traitlines are finely done. Continue to focus on fury.Shroud should have a 10 seconds cool down in order to not penalize core traitlines.Torch skills don't feel something a necromancer would have, they are to "clean".Shroud#2 is traditionally a mouvement skill, for "path of corruption" 's sake.Shroud#3 taunt don't feel necroish.Glyphs effects feel to similar in both form.

So, all in all, the traits are fines but the different skills don't sufficiently express the form that you are currently on or/and are not "necroish" enough. Give more filth to the necro which is out of pheonix form and make the phoenix's cleaner while respecting the necromancer's codes.

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

@Dadnir.5038 said:Outside of trait 9 which don't seem very fitting, traitlines are finely done. Continue to focus on fury.

What's wrong with trait 9? If it is about blind sources, then this elite have lots of them and core necro have some.

@Dadnir.5038 said:Shroud should have a 10 seconds cool down in order to not penalize core traitlines.

I went with all new desert shroud vibe and took cooldown from it. But yeah, actual cooldown is a balance issue, i just think 20 sec is more fitting.

@Dadnir.5038 said:Torch skills don't feel something a necromancer would have, they are to "clean".

Clear how? As in visible?

@Dadnir.5038 said:Shroud#2 is traditionally a mouvement skill, for "path of corruption" 's sake.

Yeah, but i made Shroud 1 a movement skill, so it still have movement, just in different location.

@Dadnir.5038 said:Shroud#3 taunt don't feel necroish.

Yeah, fear might work better, but i am really sure how it would look if a fiery master of rebirth would scare people....

@Dadnir.5038 said:Glyphs effects feel to similar in both form.

Are you sure?Utility 1:A ) Condition clear and boon - indented to work for condition based buildB ) Bonus dodge - works for any build, for defenseUtility 2:A ) Blind and cripple - works for any build, mostly for defenseB ) Vulnerability - works for any build, for offenseUtility 3:A ) Fury, might and quickness - intended to work for power buildB ) Stun - intended to work for power buildUtility 4:A ) heal and knockback - intended to work for support/tank buildB ) Pull - intended to work for tank/power buildElite:A ) Invulnerability and heal - works for any build, exclusively for defenseB ) AOE damage - works for any build, exclusively for defense

I followed how Druid's glyph work and tried to make something similar.

@Dadnir.5038 said:So, all in all, the traits are fines but the different skills don't sufficiently express the form that you are currently on or/and are not "necroish" enough. Give more filth to the necro which is out of pheonix form and make the phoenix's cleaner while respecting the necromancer's codes.

Hmmmm...... You see, necromancer is something who uses dark arts to maintain his/her life and/or joins the death to become almost immortal. With this i tried to go a bit off road: a necromancer who fuses dark magic with fire of rebirth and instead avoiding death he/she chooses to be reborn.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:Outside of trait 9 which don't seem very fitting, traitlines are finely done. Continue to focus on fury.

What's wrong with trait 9? If it is about blind sources, then this elite have lots of them and core necro have some.

It's just that the bottom traitline feel like a fury traitline and all of a sudden the last trait focus on blind. That's an issue that happen a lot in your e-specs suggestions and probably what irk me the most, it feel unconsistent.

@Dadnir.5038 said:Shroud should have a 10 seconds cool down in order to not penalize core traitlines.

I went with all new desert shroud vibe and took cooldown from it. But yeah, actual cooldown is a balance issue, i just think 20 sec is more fitting.

I don't think your shroud and desert shroud are comparable. It lack all of the freedom that desert shroud give and look a lot more like a regular shroud. A 10 second CD fit it a way better.

@Dadnir.5038 said:Torch skills don't feel something a necromancer would have, they are to "clean".

Clear how? As in visible?

Nope, like I said in my last sentences, the necromancer out of it's shroud need to be "darker" in it's skills identity. It need more "filth" and less of a guardian/fire elementalist vibe.

@Dadnir.5038 said:Shroud#2 is traditionally a mouvement skill, for "path of corruption" 's sake.

Yeah, but i made Shroud 1 a movement skill, so it still have movement, just in different location.

Core traits are important as well as consistency. The e-specs traitlines are not stand alone traitlines.

@Dadnir.5038 said:Shroud#3 taunt don't feel necroish.

Yeah, fear might work better, but i am really sure how it would look if a fiery master of rebirth would scare people....

Being affraid of fire is a very natural thing... What kind of madman would throw himself into a fire? Who would want to give a hug to someone that's burning?

@Dadnir.5038 said:Glyphs effects feel to similar in both form.

Are you sure?Utility 1:A ) Condition clear and boon - indented to work for condition based buildB ) Bonus dodge - works for any build, for defenseUtility 2:A ) Blind and cripple - works for any build, mostly for defenseB ) Vulnerability - works for any build, for offenseUtility 3:A ) Fury, might and quickness - intended to work for power buildB ) Stun - intended to work for power buildUtility 4:A ) heal and knockback - intended to work for support/tank buildB ) Pull - intended to work for tank/power buildElite:A ) Invulnerability and heal - works for any build, exclusively for defenseB ) AOE damage - works for any build, exclusively for defense

I followed how Druid's glyph work and tried to make something similar.

Druid's Glyphs don't work like "that". Druid's glyph have effects that fit the identity/personnality of the form they are taking. Your glyphs don't express the underlying personnality of the necromancer while out of shroud due to the fact that the effect are to "kind". The necromancer is ruthless and he bring down it's foes to trample them under it's feets, It doesn't strive to be better than other. These effects of your depict someone that is striving to come on top, not someone that bring down is foes to have the last laugh.

If your pheonix shroud is supposed to have a "bright" personnality, it will make the contrast between skills a lot more entertaining and fitting of the e-spec. However, even if the shroud have a brigther personnality, it should not affect the personnality of the necromancer while out of it. This is even more true that you have skill/traits that emphazised between black and white.

@Dadnir.5038 said:So, all in all, the traits are fines but the different skills don't sufficiently express the form that you are currently on or/and are not "necroish" enough. Give more filth to the necro which is out of pheonix form and make the phoenix's cleaner while respecting the necromancer's codes.

Hmmmm...... You see, necromancer is something who uses dark arts to maintain his/her life and/or joins the death to become almost immortal. With this i tried to go a bit off road: a necromancer who fuses dark magic with fire of rebirth and instead avoiding death he/she chooses to be reborn.

I said it above but, the necromancer, before everything else, bring down it's foes below him. The issue is that you design things along the idea that he should strive to be better than other. That's the mistake.

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

Updated this concept.

[derd.6413]

i think skulls would be to detailed for an auto attack, maybe use something simpler like a soul or something.

also a phoenix themed elite would probably work better on ele rather then necro.

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

@"derd.6413" said:i think skulls would be to detailed for an auto attack, maybe use something simpler like a soul or something.

also a phoenix themed elite would probably work better on ele rather then necro.

You mean "too detailed"?And yes, phoenix might work better for elementalist, but it could also work for a necromancer, because phoenix theme is about life, death and rebirth.

[derd.6413]

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@"derd.6413" said:i think skulls would be to detailed for an auto attack, maybe use something simpler like a soul or something.

also a phoenix themed elite would probably work better on ele rather then necro.

You mean "too detailed"?And yes, phoenix might work better for elementalist, but it could also work for a necromancer, because phoenix theme is about life, death and rebirth.

i'd disagree. necromancer (despite literally having death in the name) seem to be more about dark powers then the cycle of life and death. maybe if you'd take a more 'evil' creature it'd work better.

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:i think skulls would be to detailed for an auto attack, maybe use something simpler like a soul or something.

also a phoenix themed elite would probably work better on ele rather then necro.

You mean "too detailed"?And yes, phoenix might work better for elementalist, but it could also work for a necromancer, because phoenix theme is about life, death and rebirth.

i'd disagree. necromancer (despite literally having death in the name) seem to be more about dark powers then the cycle of life and death. maybe if you'd take a more 'evil' creature it'd work better.

From official description of Anet:"Necromancers feed on life force, which they can leverage offensively or use to delay their own demise."

Well, while necromancer is mostly a dark figure, it is also a class designed on a principle of balance between life and death. While core necromancer uses dark magic to keep itself alive, this elite would rather use phoenix-type of magic to keep itself alive.Also, while elementalist could be Phoenix class, necromancer can be Dark Phoenix Class.

[derd.6413]

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:i think skulls would be to detailed for an auto attack, maybe use something simpler like a soul or something.

also a phoenix themed elite would probably work better on ele rather then necro.

You mean "too detailed"?And yes, phoenix might work better for elementalist, but it could also work for a necromancer, because phoenix theme is about life, death and rebirth.

i'd disagree. necromancer (despite literally having death in the name) seem to be more about dark powers then the cycle of life and death. maybe if you'd take a more 'evil' creature it'd work better.

From official description of Anet:"Necromancers feed on life force, which they can leverage offensively or use to delay their own demise."

Well, while necromancer is mostly a dark figure, it is also a class designed on a principle of balance between life and death. While core necromancer uses dark magic to keep itself alive, this elite would rather use phoenix-type of magic to keep itself alive.Also, while elementalist could be Phoenix class, necromancer can be Dark Phoenix Class.

you see the issue is that you change the type of magic they use instead of how to use the magic (like reaper/scourge) or add magic that complements the magic they already have (like spellbreaker or holosmith).

also putting 'dark' in front of something doesn't make it different. at best it can be used to differentiate alliances.

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:i think skulls would be to detailed for an auto attack, maybe use something simpler like a soul or something.

also a phoenix themed elite would probably work better on ele rather then necro.

You mean "too detailed"?And yes, phoenix might work better for elementalist, but it could also work for a necromancer, because phoenix theme is about life, death and rebirth.

i'd disagree. necromancer (despite literally having death in the name) seem to be more about dark powers then the cycle of life and death. maybe if you'd take a more 'evil' creature it'd work better.

From official description of Anet:"Necromancers feed on life force, which they can leverage offensively or use to delay their own demise."

Well, while necromancer is mostly a dark figure, it is also a class designed on a principle of balance between life and death. While core necromancer uses dark magic to keep itself alive, this elite would rather use phoenix-type of magic to keep itself alive.Also, while elementalist could be Phoenix class, necromancer can be Dark Phoenix Class.

you see the issue is that you change the type of magic they use instead of how to use the magic (like reaper/scourge) or add magic that complements the magic they already have (like spellbreaker or holosmith).

also putting 'dark' in front of something doesn't make it different. at best it can be used to differentiate alliances.

Yeah, classical necromancer use dark magic to do X, Y and Z, while this necromancer would use phoenix-style magic to accomplish exact same goals.

Also, if putting "dark" in front of something doesn't make it different, then....:1) Magic2) Dark MagicAre they still the same?

[derd.6413]

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:i think skulls would be to detailed for an auto attack, maybe use something simpler like a soul or something.

also a phoenix themed elite would probably work better on ele rather then necro.

You mean "too detailed"?And yes, phoenix might work better for elementalist, but it could also work for a necromancer, because phoenix theme is about life, death and rebirth.

i'd disagree. necromancer (despite literally having death in the name) seem to be more about dark powers then the cycle of life and death. maybe if you'd take a more 'evil' creature it'd work better.

From official description of Anet:"Necromancers feed on life force, which they can leverage offensively or use to delay their own demise."

Well, while necromancer is mostly a dark figure, it is also a class designed on a principle of balance between life and death. While core necromancer uses dark magic to keep itself alive, this elite would rather use phoenix-type of magic to keep itself alive.Also, while elementalist could be Phoenix class, necromancer can be Dark Phoenix Class.

you see the issue is that you change the type of magic they use instead of how to use the magic (like reaper/scourge) or add magic that complements the magic they already have (like spellbreaker or holosmith).

also putting 'dark' in front of something doesn't make it different. at best it can be used to differentiate alliances.

Yeah, classical necromancer use dark magic to do X, Y and Z, while this necromancer would use phoenix-style magic to accomplish exact same goals.

Also, if putting "dark" in front of something doesn't make it different, then....:1) Magic2) Dark MagicAre they still the same?

kinda yes, dark magic is a type of magic (like how sharks are a type of fish). i use it to collectivize curtain magics (death magic, blood magic, demon magic, etc.)

also a 'dark phoenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phoenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:i think skulls would be to detailed for an auto attack, maybe use something simpler like a soul or something.

also a phoenix themed elite would probably work better on ele rather then necro.

You mean "too detailed"?And yes, phoenix might work better for elementalist, but it could also work for a necromancer, because phoenix theme is about life, death and rebirth.

i'd disagree. necromancer (despite literally having death in the name) seem to be more about dark powers then the cycle of life and death. maybe if you'd take a more 'evil' creature it'd work better.

From official description of Anet:"Necromancers feed on life force, which they can leverage offensively or use to delay their own demise."

Well, while necromancer is mostly a dark figure, it is also a class designed on a principle of balance between life and death. While core necromancer uses dark magic to keep itself alive, this elite would rather use phoenix-type of magic to keep itself alive.Also, while elementalist could be Phoenix class, necromancer can be Dark Phoenix Class.

you see the issue is that you change the type of magic they use instead of how to use the magic (like reaper/scourge) or add magic that complements the magic they already have (like spellbreaker or holosmith).

also putting 'dark' in front of something doesn't make it different. at best it can be used to differentiate alliances.

Yeah, classical necromancer use dark magic to do X, Y and Z, while this necromancer would use phoenix-style magic to accomplish exact same goals.

Also, if putting "dark" in front of something doesn't make it different, then....:1) Magic2) Dark MagicAre they still the same?

kinda yes, dark magic is a type of magic (like how sharks are a type of fish) and it's an easy way to collectivize curtain magics (death magic, blood magic, demon magic, etc.)

also a 'dark phenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid

Well, then you should have no problems with dark blood/death magician (necromancer) turning to dark fire magic (rebirth elite).

[derd.6413]

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:i think skulls would be to detailed for an auto attack, maybe use something simpler like a soul or something.

also a phoenix themed elite would probably work better on ele rather then necro.

You mean "too detailed"?And yes, phoenix might work better for elementalist, but it could also work for a necromancer, because phoenix theme is about life, death and rebirth.

i'd disagree. necromancer (despite literally having death in the name) seem to be more about dark powers then the cycle of life and death. maybe if you'd take a more 'evil' creature it'd work better.

From official description of Anet:"Necromancers feed on life force, which they can leverage offensively or use to delay their own demise."

Well, while necromancer is mostly a dark figure, it is also a class designed on a principle of balance between life and death. While core necromancer uses dark magic to keep itself alive, this elite would rather use phoenix-type of magic to keep itself alive.Also, while elementalist could be Phoenix class, necromancer can be Dark Phoenix Class.

you see the issue is that you change the type of magic they use instead of how to use the magic (like reaper/scourge) or add magic that complements the magic they already have (like spellbreaker or holosmith).

also putting 'dark' in front of something doesn't make it different. at best it can be used to differentiate alliances.

Yeah, classical necromancer use dark magic to do X, Y and Z, while this necromancer would use phoenix-style magic to accomplish exact same goals.

Also, if putting "dark" in front of something doesn't make it different, then....:1) Magic2) Dark MagicAre they still the same?

kinda yes, dark magic is a type of magic (like how sharks are a type of fish) and it's an easy way to collectivize curtain magics (death magic, blood magic, demon magic, etc.)

also a 'dark phenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid

Well, then you should have no problems with dark blood/death magician (necromancer) turning to dark fire magic (rebirth elite).

i'll add to my edit:

a 'dark phoenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phoenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid because then you could make everything fit every class. like a blue phoenix guardian or a purple phoenix mesmer etc.

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:i think skulls would be to detailed for an auto attack, maybe use something simpler like a soul or something.

also a phoenix themed elite would probably work better on ele rather then necro.

You mean "too detailed"?And yes, phoenix might work better for elementalist, but it could also work for a necromancer, because phoenix theme is about life, death and rebirth.

i'd disagree. necromancer (despite literally having death in the name) seem to be more about dark powers then the cycle of life and death. maybe if you'd take a more 'evil' creature it'd work better.

From official description of Anet:"Necromancers feed on life force, which they can leverage offensively or use to delay their own demise."

Well, while necromancer is mostly a dark figure, it is also a class designed on a principle of balance between life and death. While core necromancer uses dark magic to keep itself alive, this elite would rather use phoenix-type of magic to keep itself alive.Also, while elementalist could be Phoenix class, necromancer can be Dark Phoenix Class.

you see the issue is that you change the type of magic they use instead of how to use the magic (like reaper/scourge) or add magic that complements the magic they already have (like spellbreaker or holosmith).

also putting 'dark' in front of something doesn't make it different. at best it can be used to differentiate alliances.

Yeah, classical necromancer use dark magic to do X, Y and Z, while this necromancer would use phoenix-style magic to accomplish exact same goals.

Also, if putting "dark" in front of something doesn't make it different, then....:1) Magic2) Dark MagicAre they still the same?

kinda yes, dark magic is a type of magic (like how sharks are a type of fish) and it's an easy way to collectivize curtain magics (death magic, blood magic, demon magic, etc.)

also a 'dark phenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid

Well, then you should have no problems with dark blood/death magician (necromancer) turning to dark fire magic (rebirth elite).

i'll add to my edit:

a 'dark phoenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phoenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid because then you could make everything fit every class. like a blue phoenix guardian or a purple phoenix mesmer etc.

Why though? Scourge is Sand-based mage, and elementalist can also be the same exact type of mage. If we go by this philosophy then:1) Necromancer can only be dark magic user raising undeads2) Guardian can only be a defensive class3) Thief can only be stealth based classAnd so on.I don't think that would be healthy or innovative for a game.

[derd.6413]

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:i think skulls would be to detailed for an auto attack, maybe use something simpler like a soul or something.

also a phoenix themed elite would probably work better on ele rather then necro.

You mean "too detailed"?And yes, phoenix might work better for elementalist, but it could also work for a necromancer, because phoenix theme is about life, death and rebirth.

i'd disagree. necromancer (despite literally having death in the name) seem to be more about dark powers then the cycle of life and death. maybe if you'd take a more 'evil' creature it'd work better.

From official description of Anet:"Necromancers feed on life force, which they can leverage offensively or use to delay their own demise."

Well, while necromancer is mostly a dark figure, it is also a class designed on a principle of balance between life and death. While core necromancer uses dark magic to keep itself alive, this elite would rather use phoenix-type of magic to keep itself alive.Also, while elementalist could be Phoenix class, necromancer can be Dark Phoenix Class.

you see the issue is that you change the type of magic they use instead of how to use the magic (like reaper/scourge) or add magic that complements the magic they already have (like spellbreaker or holosmith).

also putting 'dark' in front of something doesn't make it different. at best it can be used to differentiate alliances.

Yeah, classical necromancer use dark magic to do X, Y and Z, while this necromancer would use phoenix-style magic to accomplish exact same goals.

Also, if putting "dark" in front of something doesn't make it different, then....:1) Magic2) Dark MagicAre they still the same?

kinda yes, dark magic is a type of magic (like how sharks are a type of fish) and it's an easy way to collectivize curtain magics (death magic, blood magic, demon magic, etc.)

also a 'dark phenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid

Well, then you should have no problems with dark blood/death magician (necromancer) turning to dark fire magic (rebirth elite).

i'll add to my edit:

a 'dark phoenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phoenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid because then you could make everything fit every class. like a blue phoenix guardian or a purple phoenix mesmer etc.

Why though? Scourge is Sand-based mage, and elementalist can also be the same exact type of mage. If we go by this philosophy then:1) Necromancer can only be dark magic user raising undeads2) Guardian can only be a defensive class3) Thief can only be stealth based classAnd so on.I don't think that would be healthy or innovative for a game.

scourge uses sand because they were desert themed. (this also applies to mirrage and probably some others i'm forgetting) which makes sens cause it was 'created'(?) in a dessert

or for short a desert-themed necro and not a 'necro-themed dessert'-themed necro (unlike your suggested 'necro-themed phoenix'-themed necro)

also 'dark' magic is a very vague description with alot that can be aplied to. (i gave demon as an example because necro doesn't have any demon themed skills, only a cosmetic option in character creation)

also i'm not saying themes of rebirth can't be used i'm saying that if your using those themes it best to use a different creature then a phoenix.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:i think skulls would be to detailed for an auto attack, maybe use something simpler like a soul or something.

also a phoenix themed elite would probably work better on ele rather then necro.

You mean "too detailed"?And yes, phoenix might work better for elementalist, but it could also work for a necromancer, because phoenix theme is about life, death and rebirth.

i'd disagree. necromancer (despite literally having death in the name) seem to be more about dark powers then the cycle of life and death. maybe if you'd take a more 'evil' creature it'd work better.

From official description of Anet:"Necromancers feed on life force, which they can leverage offensively or use to delay their own demise."

Well, while necromancer is mostly a dark figure, it is also a class designed on a principle of balance between life and death. While core necromancer uses dark magic to keep itself alive, this elite would rather use phoenix-type of magic to keep itself alive.Also, while elementalist could be Phoenix class, necromancer can be Dark Phoenix Class.

you see the issue is that you change the type of magic they use instead of how to use the magic (like reaper/scourge) or add magic that complements the magic they already have (like spellbreaker or holosmith).

also putting 'dark' in front of something doesn't make it different. at best it can be used to differentiate alliances.

Yeah, classical necromancer use dark magic to do X, Y and Z, while this necromancer would use phoenix-style magic to accomplish exact same goals.

Also, if putting "dark" in front of something doesn't make it different, then....:1) Magic2) Dark MagicAre they still the same?

kinda yes, dark magic is a type of magic (like how sharks are a type of fish) and it's an easy way to collectivize curtain magics (death magic, blood magic, demon magic, etc.)

also a 'dark phenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid

Well, then you should have no problems with dark blood/death magician (necromancer) turning to dark fire magic (rebirth elite).

i'll add to my edit:

a 'dark phoenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phoenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid because then you could make everything fit every class. like a blue phoenix guardian or a purple phoenix mesmer etc.

Why though? Scourge is Sand-based mage, and elementalist can also be the same exact type of mage. If we go by this philosophy then:1) Necromancer can only be dark magic user raising undeads2) Guardian can only be a defensive class3) Thief can only be stealth based classAnd so on.I don't think that would be healthy or innovative for a game.

Not really. While Elementalist can have sand-based skills, that only works for Earth attunement. They cannot have a sand-mage spec.

While sand was a bit of an odd flavor choice, they did focus on the harsher and preserving aspects of the desert rather than sand itself. With Scourge, sand was the medium, not the focus.

Pheonixes, however, are anthithical to death. They are the embodiment of purity, rejuvenation, and life, none of which are in the realm of a Necromancer.

A pheonix-flavored spec certainly works for the Guardian (preserving life, fire) and even works for the Ranger (purity of nature and rebirth). No other profession really works with it, though.

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:i think skulls would be to detailed for an auto attack, maybe use something simpler like a soul or something.

also a phoenix themed elite would probably work better on ele rather then necro.

You mean "too detailed"?And yes, phoenix might work better for elementalist, but it could also work for a necromancer, because phoenix theme is about life, death and rebirth.

i'd disagree. necromancer (despite literally having death in the name) seem to be more about dark powers then the cycle of life and death. maybe if you'd take a more 'evil' creature it'd work better.

From official description of Anet:"Necromancers feed on life force, which they can leverage offensively or use to delay their own demise."

Well, while necromancer is mostly a dark figure, it is also a class designed on a principle of balance between life and death. While core necromancer uses dark magic to keep itself alive, this elite would rather use phoenix-type of magic to keep itself alive.Also, while elementalist could be Phoenix class, necromancer can be Dark Phoenix Class.

you see the issue is that you change the type of magic they use instead of how to use the magic (like reaper/scourge) or add magic that complements the magic they already have (like spellbreaker or holosmith).

also putting 'dark' in front of something doesn't make it different. at best it can be used to differentiate alliances.

Yeah, classical necromancer use dark magic to do X, Y and Z, while this necromancer would use phoenix-style magic to accomplish exact same goals.

Also, if putting "dark" in front of something doesn't make it different, then....:1) Magic2) Dark MagicAre they still the same?

kinda yes, dark magic is a type of magic (like how sharks are a type of fish) and it's an easy way to collectivize curtain magics (death magic, blood magic, demon magic, etc.)

also a 'dark phenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid

Well, then you should have no problems with dark blood/death magician (necromancer) turning to dark fire magic (rebirth elite).

i'll add to my edit:

a 'dark phoenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phoenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid because then you could make everything fit every class. like a blue phoenix guardian or a purple phoenix mesmer etc.

Why though? Scourge is Sand-based mage, and elementalist can also be the same exact type of mage. If we go by this philosophy then:1) Necromancer can only be dark magic user raising undeads2) Guardian can only be a defensive class3) Thief can only be stealth based classAnd so on.I don't think that would be healthy or innovative for a game.

scourge uses sand because they were desert themed. (this also applies to mirrage and probably some others i'm forgetting) which makes sens cause it was 'created'(?) in a dessert

or for short a desert-themed necro and not a 'necro-themed dessert'-themed necro (unlike your suggested 'necro-themed phoenix'-themed necro)

Nah, it is necro-themed desert-themed elite. It could be as well elementalist-themed desert-themed elite for elementalist: sands, heat, oasis, etc. Elementalist could as well be scourge:1) Fuse eath and fire attunements into sand attunement. Sword skills or dual skills could summon sand-shades, or new healing/utility/elite could summon shades2) Fuse water and air attunements into oasis attunement: it could be focused on barriers, regeneration and similar effects.

And same goes for this suggestion. Of course elementalist can get elite like rebirth, but necromancer can get it as well.

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:i think skulls would be to detailed for an auto attack, maybe use something simpler like a soul or something.

also a phoenix themed elite would probably work better on ele rather then necro.

You mean "too detailed"?And yes, phoenix might work better for elementalist, but it could also work for a necromancer, because phoenix theme is about life, death and rebirth.

i'd disagree. necromancer (despite literally having death in the name) seem to be more about dark powers then the cycle of life and death. maybe if you'd take a more 'evil' creature it'd work better.

From official description of Anet:"Necromancers feed on life force, which they can leverage offensively or use to delay their own demise."

Well, while necromancer is mostly a dark figure, it is also a class designed on a principle of balance between life and death. While core necromancer uses dark magic to keep itself alive, this elite would rather use phoenix-type of magic to keep itself alive.Also, while elementalist could be Phoenix class, necromancer can be Dark Phoenix Class.

you see the issue is that you change the type of magic they use instead of how to use the magic (like reaper/scourge) or add magic that complements the magic they already have (like spellbreaker or holosmith).

also putting 'dark' in front of something doesn't make it different. at best it can be used to differentiate alliances.

Yeah, classical necromancer use dark magic to do X, Y and Z, while this necromancer would use phoenix-style magic to accomplish exact same goals.

Also, if putting "dark" in front of something doesn't make it different, then....:1) Magic2) Dark MagicAre they still the same?

kinda yes, dark magic is a type of magic (like how sharks are a type of fish) and it's an easy way to collectivize curtain magics (death magic, blood magic, demon magic, etc.)

also a 'dark phenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid

Well, then you should have no problems with dark blood/death magician (necromancer) turning to dark fire magic (rebirth elite).

i'll add to my edit:

a 'dark phoenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phoenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid because then you could make everything fit every class. like a blue phoenix guardian or a purple phoenix mesmer etc.

Why though? Scourge is Sand-based mage, and elementalist can also be the same exact type of mage. If we go by this philosophy then:1) Necromancer can only be dark magic user raising undeads2) Guardian can only be a defensive class3) Thief can only be stealth based classAnd so on.I don't think that would be healthy or innovative for a game.

Not really. While Elementalist can have sand-based skills, that only works for Earth attunement. They cannot have a sand-mage spec.

While sand was a bit of an odd flavor choice, they did focus on the harsher and preserving aspects of the desert rather than sand itself. With Scourge, sand was the medium, not the focus.

Pheonixes, however, are anthithical to death. They are the embodiment of purity, rejuvenation, and life, none of which are in the realm of a Necromancer.

A pheonix-flavored spec certainly works for the Guardian (preserving life, fire) and even works for the Ranger (purity of nature and rebirth). No other profession really works with it, though.

How about desert based spec with offensive focus on the sand (earth+fire) and defensive focus of oasis (water+air)?

Also, phoenix is actually extremely connected to death. Phoenix revives/rebirth after death, thus it needs to actually die to be reborn. And what does necromancer does? It corrupts stuff. If phoenix is a symbol of rebirth(death) and purity, then necromancer only needs to corrupt aspect of purity.Look at the thins this way: why do necromancers become necromancers? The most logical answer would be to control life and death. Someone becomes necromancer to avoid their own death and spread death to their enemies. So why it sounds so strange that some necromancer get tempted to avoid their own death by becoming (nearly) immortal through constantly being reborn?

[derd.6413]

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:i think skulls would be to detailed for an auto attack, maybe use something simpler like a soul or something.

also a phoenix themed elite would probably work better on ele rather then necro.

You mean "too detailed"?And yes, phoenix might work better for elementalist, but it could also work for a necromancer, because phoenix theme is about life, death and rebirth.

i'd disagree. necromancer (despite literally having death in the name) seem to be more about dark powers then the cycle of life and death. maybe if you'd take a more 'evil' creature it'd work better.

From official description of Anet:"Necromancers feed on life force, which they can leverage offensively or use to delay their own demise."

Well, while necromancer is mostly a dark figure, it is also a class designed on a principle of balance between life and death. While core necromancer uses dark magic to keep itself alive, this elite would rather use phoenix-type of magic to keep itself alive.Also, while elementalist could be Phoenix class, necromancer can be Dark Phoenix Class.

you see the issue is that you change the type of magic they use instead of how to use the magic (like reaper/scourge) or add magic that complements the magic they already have (like spellbreaker or holosmith).

also putting 'dark' in front of something doesn't make it different. at best it can be used to differentiate alliances.

Yeah, classical necromancer use dark magic to do X, Y and Z, while this necromancer would use phoenix-style magic to accomplish exact same goals.

Also, if putting "dark" in front of something doesn't make it different, then....:1) Magic2) Dark MagicAre they still the same?

kinda yes, dark magic is a type of magic (like how sharks are a type of fish) and it's an easy way to collectivize curtain magics (death magic, blood magic, demon magic, etc.)

also a 'dark phenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid

Well, then you should have no problems with dark blood/death magician (necromancer) turning to dark fire magic (rebirth elite).

i'll add to my edit:

a 'dark phoenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phoenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid because then you could make everything fit every class. like a blue phoenix guardian or a purple phoenix mesmer etc.

Why though? Scourge is Sand-based mage, and elementalist can also be the same exact type of mage. If we go by this philosophy then:1) Necromancer can only be dark magic user raising undeads2) Guardian can only be a defensive class3) Thief can only be stealth based classAnd so on.I don't think that would be healthy or innovative for a game.

scourge uses sand because they were desert themed. (this also applies to mirrage and probably some others i'm forgetting) which makes sens cause it was 'created'(?) in a dessert

or for short a desert-themed necro and not a 'necro-themed dessert'-themed necro (unlike your suggested 'necro-themed phoenix'-themed necro)

Nah, it is necro-themed desert-themed elite. It could be as well elementalist-themed desert-themed elite for elementalist: sands, heat, oasis, etc. Elementalist could as well be scourge:1) Fuse eath and fire attunements into sand attunement. Sword skills or dual skills could summon sand-shades, or new healing/utility/elite could summon shades2) Fuse water and air attunements into oasis attunement: it could be focused on barriers, regeneration and similar effects.

And same goes for this suggestion. Of course elementalist can get elite like rebirth, but necromancer can get it as well.

1) don't only argue against half my arguments

2) barrier isn't necro exclusive

3) scourge magic was developed(?) by joko (so a dessert theme necro wasn't sucked out of their thumb)

4) fire and earth wouldn't make sand that'd be magma or glass

5) reincarnation is a lost art this would spit in the face of this lore tid bit (i did just remember this)

Death and resurrection in the original Guild Wars were renamed to "defeat" and "revival" to match lore, as resurrections are no longer possible as easily as 250 years ago before the Human Gods ceased their direct interaction with Tyria. Because of this, defeated players are never considered to be dead in lore.-wiki

lastly i'm arguing against themes, not mechanics

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:i think skulls would be to detailed for an auto attack, maybe use something simpler like a soul or something.

also a phoenix themed elite would probably work better on ele rather then necro.

You mean "too detailed"?And yes, phoenix might work better for elementalist, but it could also work for a necromancer, because phoenix theme is about life, death and rebirth.

i'd disagree. necromancer (despite literally having death in the name) seem to be more about dark powers then the cycle of life and death. maybe if you'd take a more 'evil' creature it'd work better.

From official description of Anet:"Necromancers feed on life force, which they can leverage offensively or use to delay their own demise."

Well, while necromancer is mostly a dark figure, it is also a class designed on a principle of balance between life and death. While core necromancer uses dark magic to keep itself alive, this elite would rather use phoenix-type of magic to keep itself alive.Also, while elementalist could be Phoenix class, necromancer can be Dark Phoenix Class.

you see the issue is that you change the type of magic they use instead of how to use the magic (like reaper/scourge) or add magic that complements the magic they already have (like spellbreaker or holosmith).

also putting 'dark' in front of something doesn't make it different. at best it can be used to differentiate alliances.

Yeah, classical necromancer use dark magic to do X, Y and Z, while this necromancer would use phoenix-style magic to accomplish exact same goals.

Also, if putting "dark" in front of something doesn't make it different, then....:1) Magic2) Dark MagicAre they still the same?

kinda yes, dark magic is a type of magic (like how sharks are a type of fish) and it's an easy way to collectivize curtain magics (death magic, blood magic, demon magic, etc.)

also a 'dark phenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid

Well, then you should have no problems with dark blood/death magician (necromancer) turning to dark fire magic (rebirth elite).

i'll add to my edit:

a 'dark phoenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phoenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid because then you could make everything fit every class. like a blue phoenix guardian or a purple phoenix mesmer etc.

Why though? Scourge is Sand-based mage, and elementalist can also be the same exact type of mage. If we go by this philosophy then:1) Necromancer can only be dark magic user raising undeads2) Guardian can only be a defensive class3) Thief can only be stealth based classAnd so on.I don't think that would be healthy or innovative for a game.

scourge uses sand because they were desert themed. (this also applies to mirrage and probably some others i'm forgetting) which makes sens cause it was 'created'(?) in a dessert

or for short a desert-themed necro and not a 'necro-themed dessert'-themed necro (unlike your suggested 'necro-themed phoenix'-themed necro)

Nah, it is necro-themed desert-themed elite. It could be as well elementalist-themed desert-themed elite for elementalist: sands, heat, oasis, etc. Elementalist could as well be scourge:1) Fuse eath and fire attunements into sand attunement. Sword skills or dual skills could summon sand-shades, or new healing/utility/elite could summon shades2) Fuse water and air attunements into oasis attunement: it could be focused on barriers, regeneration and similar effects.

And same goes for this suggestion. Of course elementalist can get elite like rebirth, but necromancer can get it as well.

1) don't only argue against half my arguments

2) barrier isn't necro exclusive

3) scourge magic was developed(?) by joko (so a dessert theme necro wasn't sucked out of their thumb)

4) fire and earth wouldn't make sand that'd be magma or glass

5) reincarnation is a lost art this would spit in the face of this lore tid bit (i did just remember this)

Death and resurrection in the original Guild Wars were renamed to "defeat" and "revival" to match lore, as

resurrections are no longer possible as easily as 250 years ago before the Human Gods ceased their direct interaction with Tyria.

Because of this, defeated players are never considered to be dead in lore.

-wiki

lastly i'm arguing against themes, not mechanics

1) I only argue with relevant parts2) Yeah, for example not-scourge non-desert-themed elementalist have them3) What?4) Really? Is sand earth based material? Yes it is. Is desert filled with sand? Yes it is. Is desert hot? Yes it is. So fire+earth=sand.5) Why? Isn't all elite spec were kinda lost before they became available to players?

Well, and where does that quote from wiki contradicts a concept of phoenix themed elite? i says "no longer possible as easily as", so it means it is possible, but pretty hard. Someone might even say: beyond grasp of normal mortals, but not to those who are between life and death throughout their lives.

[derd.6413]

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:i think skulls would be to detailed for an auto attack, maybe use something simpler like a soul or something.

also a phoenix themed elite would probably work better on ele rather then necro.

You mean "too detailed"?And yes, phoenix might work better for elementalist, but it could also work for a necromancer, because phoenix theme is about life, death and rebirth.

i'd disagree. necromancer (despite literally having death in the name) seem to be more about dark powers then the cycle of life and death. maybe if you'd take a more 'evil' creature it'd work better.

From official description of Anet:"Necromancers feed on life force, which they can leverage offensively or use to delay their own demise."

Well, while necromancer is mostly a dark figure, it is also a class designed on a principle of balance between life and death. While core necromancer uses dark magic to keep itself alive, this elite would rather use phoenix-type of magic to keep itself alive.Also, while elementalist could be Phoenix class, necromancer can be Dark Phoenix Class.

you see the issue is that you change the type of magic they use instead of how to use the magic (like reaper/scourge) or add magic that complements the magic they already have (like spellbreaker or holosmith).

also putting 'dark' in front of something doesn't make it different. at best it can be used to differentiate alliances.

Yeah, classical necromancer use dark magic to do X, Y and Z, while this necromancer would use phoenix-style magic to accomplish exact same goals.

Also, if putting "dark" in front of something doesn't make it different, then....:1) Magic2) Dark MagicAre they still the same?

kinda yes, dark magic is a type of magic (like how sharks are a type of fish) and it's an easy way to collectivize curtain magics (death magic, blood magic, demon magic, etc.)

also a 'dark phenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid

Well, then you should have no problems with dark blood/death magician (necromancer) turning to dark fire magic (rebirth elite).

i'll add to my edit:

a 'dark phoenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phoenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid because then you could make everything fit every class. like a blue phoenix guardian or a purple phoenix mesmer etc.

Why though? Scourge is Sand-based mage, and elementalist can also be the same exact type of mage. If we go by this philosophy then:1) Necromancer can only be dark magic user raising undeads2) Guardian can only be a defensive class3) Thief can only be stealth based classAnd so on.I don't think that would be healthy or innovative for a game.

scourge uses sand because they were desert themed. (this also applies to mirrage and probably some others i'm forgetting) which makes sens cause it was 'created'(?) in a dessert

or for short a desert-themed necro and not a 'necro-themed dessert'-themed necro (unlike your suggested 'necro-themed phoenix'-themed necro)

Nah, it is necro-themed desert-themed elite. It could be as well elementalist-themed desert-themed elite for elementalist: sands, heat, oasis, etc. Elementalist could as well be scourge:1) Fuse eath and fire attunements into sand attunement. Sword skills or dual skills could summon sand-shades, or new healing/utility/elite could summon shades2) Fuse water and air attunements into oasis attunement: it could be focused on barriers, regeneration and similar effects.

And same goes for this suggestion. Of course elementalist can get elite like rebirth, but necromancer can get it as well.

1) don't only argue against half my arguments

2) barrier isn't necro exclusive

3) scourge magic was developed(?) by joko (so a dessert theme necro wasn't sucked out of their thumb)

4) fire and earth wouldn't make sand that'd be magma or glass

5) reincarnation is a lost art this would spit in the face of this lore tid bit (i did just remember this)

Death and resurrection in the original Guild Wars were renamed to "defeat" and "revival" to match lore, as

resurrections are no longer possible as easily as 250 years ago before the Human Gods ceased their direct interaction with Tyria.

Because of this, defeated players are never considered to be dead in lore.

-wiki

lastly i'm arguing against themes, not mechanics

1) I only argue with relevant parts2) Yeah, for example not-scourge non-desert-themed elementalist have them3) What?4) Really? Is sand earth based material? Yes it is. Is desert filled with sand? Yes it is. Is desert hot? Yes it is. So fire+earth=sand.5) Why? Isn't all elite spec were kinda lost before they became available to players?

Well, and where does that quote from wiki contradicts a concept of phoenix themed elite? i says "no longer possible as easily as", so it means it is possible, but pretty hard. Someone might even say: beyond grasp of normal mortals, but not to those who are between life and death throughout their lives.

1) you only answer things that are convenient to you which is just bad debate etiquette

2) your point? (also once again i'm arguing against themes not mechanics)

3)i mean there was a pre-existing lore for scourge (compared to your elite spec since the only reference to phoenixes in gw are skins and an ele skill)

4)'dessert hot' is some poor justification to why earth+fire=sand

5)elites weren't lost they require special training/circumstances (brain surgery isn't 'lost' to a doctor that doesn't know it)

6) because then resurrection would be accessible to every necro who went there. and resurrection was 'lost' for a reason (namely that magical resurrection devalues death in a story because you can just bring ppl back to life. there's probably a few other reasons but this is the only one i remember)

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

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@derd.6413 said:i think skulls would be to detailed for an auto attack, maybe use something simpler like a soul or something.

also a phoenix themed elite would probably work better on ele rather then necro.

You mean "too detailed"?And yes, phoenix might work better for elementalist, but it could also work for a necromancer, because phoenix theme is about life, death and rebirth.

i'd disagree. necromancer (despite literally having death in the name) seem to be more about dark powers then the cycle of life and death. maybe if you'd take a more 'evil' creature it'd work better.

From official description of Anet:"Necromancers feed on life force, which they can leverage offensively or use to delay their own demise."

Well, while necromancer is mostly a dark figure, it is also a class designed on a principle of balance between life and death. While core necromancer uses dark magic to keep itself alive, this elite would rather use phoenix-type of magic to keep itself alive.Also, while elementalist could be Phoenix class, necromancer can be Dark Phoenix Class.

you see the issue is that you change the type of magic they use instead of how to use the magic (like reaper/scourge) or add magic that complements the magic they already have (like spellbreaker or holosmith).

also putting 'dark' in front of something doesn't make it different. at best it can be used to differentiate alliances.

Yeah, classical necromancer use dark magic to do X, Y and Z, while this necromancer would use phoenix-style magic to accomplish exact same goals.

Also, if putting "dark" in front of something doesn't make it different, then....:1) Magic2) Dark MagicAre they still the same?

kinda yes, dark magic is a type of magic (like how sharks are a type of fish) and it's an easy way to collectivize curtain magics (death magic, blood magic, demon magic, etc.)

also a 'dark phenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid

Well, then you should have no problems with dark blood/death magician (necromancer) turning to dark fire magic (rebirth elite).

i'll add to my edit:

a 'dark phoenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phoenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid because then you could make everything fit every class. like a blue phoenix guardian or a purple phoenix mesmer etc.

Why though? Scourge is Sand-based mage, and elementalist can also be the same exact type of mage. If we go by this philosophy then:1) Necromancer can only be dark magic user raising undeads2) Guardian can only be a defensive class3) Thief can only be stealth based classAnd so on.I don't think that would be healthy or innovative for a game.

scourge uses sand because they were desert themed. (this also applies to mirrage and probably some others i'm forgetting) which makes sens cause it was 'created'(?) in a dessert

or for short a desert-themed necro and not a 'necro-themed dessert'-themed necro (unlike your suggested 'necro-themed phoenix'-themed necro)

Nah, it is necro-themed desert-themed elite. It could be as well elementalist-themed desert-themed elite for elementalist: sands, heat, oasis, etc. Elementalist could as well be scourge:1) Fuse eath and fire attunements into sand attunement. Sword skills or dual skills could summon sand-shades, or new healing/utility/elite could summon shades2) Fuse water and air attunements into oasis attunement: it could be focused on barriers, regeneration and similar effects.

And same goes for this suggestion. Of course elementalist can get elite like rebirth, but necromancer can get it as well.

1) don't only argue against half my arguments

2) barrier isn't necro exclusive

3) scourge magic was developed(?) by joko (so a dessert theme necro wasn't sucked out of their thumb)

4) fire and earth wouldn't make sand that'd be magma or glass

5) reincarnation is a lost art this would spit in the face of this lore tid bit (i did just remember this)

Death and resurrection in the original Guild Wars were renamed to "defeat" and "revival" to match lore, as

resurrections are no longer possible as easily as 250 years ago before the Human Gods ceased their direct interaction with Tyria.

Because of this, defeated players are never considered to be dead in lore.

-wiki

lastly i'm arguing against themes, not mechanics

1) I only argue with relevant parts2) Yeah, for example not-scourge non-desert-themed elementalist have them3) What?4) Really? Is sand earth based material? Yes it is. Is desert filled with sand? Yes it is. Is desert hot? Yes it is. So fire+earth=sand.5) Why? Isn't all elite spec were kinda lost before they became available to players?

Well, and where does that quote from wiki contradicts a concept of phoenix themed elite? i says "no longer possible as easily as", so it means it is possible, but pretty hard. Someone might even say: beyond grasp of normal mortals, but not to those who are between life and death throughout their lives.

1) you only answer things that are convenient to you which is just bad debate etiquette

2) your point? (also once again i'm arguing against themes not mechanics)

3)i mean there was a pre-existing lore for scourge (compared to your elite spec since the only reference to phoenixes in gw are skins and an ele skill)

4)'dessert hot' is some poor justification to why earth+fire=sand

5)elites weren't lost they require special training/circumstances (brain surgery isn't 'lost' to a doctor that doesn't know it)

6) because then resurrection would be accessible to every necro who went there. and resurrection was 'lost' for a reason (namely that magical resurrection devalues death in a story because you can just bring ppl back to life. there's probably a few other reasons but this is the only one i remember)

1) And you don't answer at all, which is far worse. Also, addressing things you can argue is literally debate rule number 1. What is the point about trying to argue about things you can't argue about?2) Point being that phoenix is not elementalist exclusive3) Are you an expert on all lore in gw2? How do you know there are no way this can be cannon in one way or another?4) Just like like necromancer+sand is even more poor justification for scourge. Your point being?5) Well golly me, just imagine requiring special training or circumstances to unlock magic which was considered lost6) And why not? Why can some dedicated people who abandons everything to gain new powers exclusive to them regain lost magic? Regions unlocked by hot and pof were also lost before expansion.