whyyyy

[jbondo.9817]

So I've had 40-50 games now with necro/warrior and about 20-30 now with just double necro and double warrior. I'm not going to blame A-net entirely for this, I mean I don't think they understood how powerful soul breaker and scourge are or how those classes are both very easy to play and get rewarded highly, but it's that this community just gravitates entirely to whatever is imbalanced and so you get stuck in 100-200 matches where you're seeing the exact same thing and PvP loses its appeal fast. If we'd like to develop as a community we'd have gentleman's agreements at higher levels of play where those classes aren't picked, but this community doesn't want to do that and would much rather spam whatever gets them a meaningless title.

I'd also like to point out that each meta this game has had 2 classes have been completely busted.Cele Meta: shoutbow warrior, cele rifle engiCele Meta 2: cele necro, cele d/d eleHoT release: chrono bunker, rev (kinda)I didn't play for awhile after that but I feel like condi mesmer and something else came into lightand now we're back into a warrior/necro metaI don't know if this is A-nets initial design, but they seem to favor 2 classes that are broken each meta and go entire seasons without a fix, without a word about it, and these changes should be implemented sooner rather than later. If you want to keep a larger audience you don't constantly shove boring content down their throat, you see what's going on at high levels of play, what's broken on even chaith's stream or phantarams stream and you fix it the night of or the day after. This community hasn't grown and often chases new players away because it takes MONTHS for a-net to get around to fixing it.

Also for anyone interested in what the meta will be after they nerf scourge and warrior it will Mesmer/guardian or Mesmer/ele so get stoked for that!

Also come up with some new PvP modes for the love of god, we've had 2 expansions now and conquest is still what's played!!!!!!! Get some new minds on your pvp team I feel like I've been ripped off in this category twice now from buying the last 2 expacs and having 200 matches that are entirely the same.

However the PvE is excellent and I'm thoroughly impressed with that content and it's the only thing that makes me feel like I didn't waste more money on this game.

[jbondo.9817]

Also in terms of balance I'd love to see conditions reworked (no more STACKING PLEASE) and get rid of resistance as a whole.

[Lan.1968]

You guys making a new thread to complain about the state of PvP should probably read previous thread first. All of these have been discussed and a lot are already answered. You're literally complaining for the sake of doing so and not actually trying to add anything constructive to "bettering" the pvp scene. also, meta exists in every game; deal with it.

[jbondo.9817]

@Lan.1968 said:You guys making a new thread to complain about the state of PvP should probably read previous thread first. All of these have been discussed and a lot are already answered. You're literally complaining for the sake of doing so and not actually trying to add anything constructive to "bettering" the pvp scene. also, meta exists in every game; deal with it.

I'm honestly allowed to complain man. You didn't add anything constructive besides complaining about me complaining. :)Meta exists in every game but it's not spammed like it is in this and has more variety, and I imagine your main is either a warrior or a necro. :)

[Zoltreez.6435]

the major issue with the game right now is prety simple....

WE ARE BLOATED.........................

People infinitely stacking boons while infinitely spamming conditions while infinitely spamming their mobility skills while infinitely spamming their def CDs................

There is no middle ground anymore.....you either see BROKEN HUGE dmg numbers or a bunch of evades/immunes/Zeros and neither seems like they ever end once a battle starts.......

[jbondo.9817]

@Zoltreez.6435 said:the major issue with the game right now is prety simple....

WE ARE BLOATED.........................

People infinitely stacking boons while infinitely spamming conditions while infinitely spamming their mobility skills while infinitely spamming their def CDs................

There is no middle ground anymore.....you either see BROKEN HUGE dmg numbers or a bunch of evades/immunes/Zeros and neither seems like they ever end once a battle starts.......

I agree 100% start kicking out some conditions and boons and stop stacking them and I guarantee this game will be a lot more entertaining.

[Lan.1968]

@jbondo.9817 said:

@Lan.1968 said:You guys making a new thread to complain about the state of PvP should probably read previous thread first. All of these have been discussed and a lot are already answered. You're literally complaining for the sake of doing so and not actually trying to add anything constructive to "bettering" the pvp scene. also, meta exists in every game; deal with it.

I'm honestly allowed to complain man. You didn't add anything constructive besides complaining about me complaining. :)Meta exists in every game but it's not spammed like it is in this and has more variety, and I imagine your main is either a warrior or a necro. :)

Ya? What makes your complaint so exceptional that it adds to the betterment of the pvp scene whereas other complaints have failed in doing so? I did add a constructive advice to tell you to read before posting so you don't repeat the same things others have said for the last week, as though what you've experienced was unique only to you and only you thought of sharing this to others.

I don't think you understand what "meta's" really are. the reason something can rise to be a part of a "meta" is because it is the most viable method of fulfilling a purpose, which means the majority have come to the consensus which classes are on top and that is usually from players spamming the classes in pvp and getting results to reach that conclusion. Are you telling me that the league meta isn't the same adc/support bot, mage mid, bruiser jungle, and tank top consistently? How about the Overwatch meta of two tanks, two dps, and one support or one tank, two dps, and two supports? How about WoW where the meta comps are so prevalent that players gave names for what team composition they want to use?

Also, I play every class in case you were wondering. You might not know this, but you do actually get better once you understand how each classes work from a personal perspective.

[jbondo.9817]

@Lan.1968 said:

@jbondo.9817 said:

@Lan.1968 said:You guys making a new thread to complain about the state of PvP should probably read previous thread first. All of these have been discussed and a lot are already answered. You're literally complaining for the sake of doing so and not actually trying to add anything constructive to "bettering" the pvp scene. also, meta exists in every game; deal with it.

I'm honestly allowed to complain man. You didn't add anything constructive besides complaining about me complaining. :)Meta exists in every game but it's not spammed like it is in this and has more variety, and I imagine your main is either a warrior or a necro. :)

Ya? What makes your complaint so exceptional that it adds to the betterment of the pvp scene whereas other complaints have failed in doing so? I did add a constructive advice to tell you to read before posting so you don't repeat the same things others have said for the last week, as though what you've experienced was unique only to you and only you thought of sharing this to others.

I don't think you understand what "meta's" really are. the reason something can rise to be a part of a "meta" is because it is the most viable method of fulfilling a purpose, which means the majority have come to the consensus which classes are on top and that is usually from players spamming the classes in pvp and getting results to reach that conclusion. Are you telling me that the league meta isn't the same adc/support bot, mage mid, bruiser jungle, and tank top consistently? How about the Overwatch meta of two tanks, two dps, and one support or one tank, two dps, and two supports? How about WoW where the meta comps are so prevalent that players gave names for what team composition they want to use?

Also, I play every class in case you were wondering. You might not know this, but you do actually get better once you understand how each classes work from a personal perspective.

So my constructive suggestions = fix things that are imbalanced sooner, make more than 2 classes viable per meta, create more modes. I know that I've never faced you. I have over 10000 games on the two accounts that I own. I have 4-5k games on engineer, 3k on guardian, 3k on warrior, 2k on revenant. I've played this game since launch. I've played pvp in this game since 6 months prior. I've won AG's. I've been legend in 4 different seasons. I'm currently top 200, but that might change. I've never once heard of your name, and I'm really doubting your credibility. So before you start criticizing me or telling me that I don't know anything, at least provide some of your experience in this game?

[Malafaia.8903]

@jbondo.9817 said:I don't know if this is A-nets initial design, but they seem to favor 2 classes that are broken each meta and go entire seasons without a fix, without a word about it, and these changes should be implemented sooner rather than later. If you want to keep a larger audience you don't constantly shove boring content down their throat, you see what's going on at high levels of play, what's broken on even chaith's stream or phantarams stream and you fix it the night of or the day after. This community hasn't grown and often chases new players away because it takes MONTHS for a-net to get around to fixing it.

Coming from an IT background that makes a lot of sense.

[Lan.1968]

@jbondo.9817 said:

@Lan.1968 said:

@jbondo.9817 said:

@Lan.1968 said:You guys making a new thread to complain about the state of PvP should probably read previous thread first. All of these have been discussed and a lot are already answered. You're literally complaining for the sake of doing so and not actually trying to add anything constructive to "bettering" the pvp scene. also, meta exists in every game; deal with it.

I'm honestly allowed to complain man. You didn't add anything constructive besides complaining about me complaining. :)Meta exists in every game but it's not spammed like it is in this and has more variety, and I imagine your main is either a warrior or a necro. :)

Ya? What makes your complaint so exceptional that it adds to the betterment of the pvp scene whereas other complaints have failed in doing so? I did add a constructive advice to tell you to read before posting so you don't repeat the same things others have said for the last week, as though what you've experienced was unique only to you and only you thought of sharing this to others.

I don't think you understand what "meta's" really are. the reason something can rise to be a part of a "meta" is because it is the most viable method of fulfilling a purpose, which means the majority have come to the consensus which classes are on top and that is usually from players spamming the classes in pvp and getting results to reach that conclusion. Are you telling me that the league meta isn't the same adc/support bot, mage mid, bruiser jungle, and tank top consistently? How about the Overwatch meta of two tanks, two dps, and one support or one tank, two dps, and two supports? How about WoW where the meta comps are so prevalent that players gave names for what team composition they want to use?

Also, I play every class in case you were wondering. You might not know this, but you do actually get better once you understand how each classes work from a personal perspective.

So my constructive suggestions = fix things that are imbalanced sooner, make more than 2 classes viable per meta, create more modes. I know that I've never faced you. I have over 10000 games on the two accounts that I own. I have 4-5k games on engineer, 3k on guardian, 3k on warrior, 2k on revenant. I've played this game since launch. I've played pvp in this game since 6 months prior. I've won AG's. I've been legend in 4 different seasons. I'm currently top 200, but that might change. I've never once heard of your name, and I'm really doubting your credibility. So before you start criticizing me or telling me that I don't know anything, at least provide some of your experience in this game?

how would you go about fixing imbalanced classes so that every class and every spec is viable somehow? There are more than two viable classes, and ironically they are more diverse as you climb the ladders. Having more pvp modes would require a healthy player base, and guess who drove those player base away? The community itself. The problem with your credentials is that you made little to no use of your experience to actually bring insight as to what actually requires fixing, but merely stating your opinion because you think you're eligible for it. Your rational doesn't actually revolve around logic itself, but purely from a biased perspective with barely a premise to hold it up. What credibility do I need to tell you you've been saying the same things as other average players despite being "top 200 and a legend".

[jbondo.9817]

@Lan.1968 said:

@jbondo.9817 said:

@Lan.1968 said:

@jbondo.9817 said:

@Lan.1968 said:You guys making a new thread to complain about the state of PvP should probably read previous thread first. All of these have been discussed and a lot are already answered. You're literally complaining for the sake of doing so and not actually trying to add anything constructive to "bettering" the pvp scene. also, meta exists in every game; deal with it.

I'm honestly allowed to complain man. You didn't add anything constructive besides complaining about me complaining. :)Meta exists in every game but it's not spammed like it is in this and has more variety, and I imagine your main is either a warrior or a necro. :)

Ya? What makes your complaint so exceptional that it adds to the betterment of the pvp scene whereas other complaints have failed in doing so? I did add a constructive advice to tell you to read before posting so you don't repeat the same things others have said for the last week, as though what you've experienced was unique only to you and only you thought of sharing this to others.

I don't think you understand what "meta's" really are. the reason something can rise to be a part of a "meta" is because it is the most viable method of fulfilling a purpose, which means the majority have come to the consensus which classes are on top and that is usually from players spamming the classes in pvp and getting results to reach that conclusion. Are you telling me that the league meta isn't the same adc/support bot, mage mid, bruiser jungle, and tank top consistently? How about the Overwatch meta of two tanks, two dps, and one support or one tank, two dps, and two supports? How about WoW where the meta comps are so prevalent that players gave names for what team composition they want to use?

Also, I play every class in case you were wondering. You might not know this, but you do actually get better once you understand how each classes work from a personal perspective.

So my constructive suggestions = fix things that are imbalanced sooner, make more than 2 classes viable per meta, create more modes. I know that I've never faced you. I have over 10000 games on the two accounts that I own. I have 4-5k games on engineer, 3k on guardian, 3k on warrior, 2k on revenant. I've played this game since launch. I've played pvp in this game since 6 months prior. I've won AG's. I've been legend in 4 different seasons. I'm currently top 200, but that might change. I've never once heard of your name, and I'm really doubting your credibility. So before you start criticizing me or telling me that I don't know anything, at least provide some of your experience in this game?

how would you go about fixing imbalanced classes so that every class and every spec is viable somehow? There are more than two viable classes, and ironically they are more diverse as you climb the ladders. Having more pvp modes would require a healthy player base, and guess who drove those player base away? The community itself. The problem with your credentials is that you made little to no use of your experience to actually bring insight as to what actually requires fixing, but merely stating your opinion because you think you're eligible for it. Your rational doesn't actually revolve around logic itself, but purely from a biased perspective with barely a premise to hold it up. What credibility do I need to tell you you've been saying the same things as other average players despite being "top 200 and a legend".

More diverse as you climb the ladder? You haven't climbed very high have you? Judging from how you haven't stated any bit of your experience with this game I can tell that you have none. I think it's been pretty readily stated what needs to be changed on warrior and necro. Rework the condi system (my opinion), the vast majority of people say full counter nerf (increase the cooldown I'm in favor for), and I'd also say nerf balanced stance, but I already know as soon as these two classes are nerfed we'll get an influx of Mesmers/Gaurdians or Mesmers/Elementalists, and I know it'll only be two viable specs that will be played because I've played at high tier pvp every single meta.

[Lan.1968]

@jbondo.9817 said:

@Lan.1968 said:

@jbondo.9817 said:

@Lan.1968 said:

@jbondo.9817 said:

@Lan.1968 said:You guys making a new thread to complain about the state of PvP should probably read previous thread first. All of these have been discussed and a lot are already answered. You're literally complaining for the sake of doing so and not actually trying to add anything constructive to "bettering" the pvp scene. also, meta exists in every game; deal with it.

I'm honestly allowed to complain man. You didn't add anything constructive besides complaining about me complaining. :)Meta exists in every game but it's not spammed like it is in this and has more variety, and I imagine your main is either a warrior or a necro. :)

Ya? What makes your complaint so exceptional that it adds to the betterment of the pvp scene whereas other complaints have failed in doing so? I did add a constructive advice to tell you to read before posting so you don't repeat the same things others have said for the last week, as though what you've experienced was unique only to you and only you thought of sharing this to others.

I don't think you understand what "meta's" really are. the reason something can rise to be a part of a "meta" is because it is the most viable method of fulfilling a purpose, which means the majority have come to the consensus which classes are on top and that is usually from players spamming the classes in pvp and getting results to reach that conclusion. Are you telling me that the league meta isn't the same adc/support bot, mage mid, bruiser jungle, and tank top consistently? How about the Overwatch meta of two tanks, two dps, and one support or one tank, two dps, and two supports? How about WoW where the meta comps are so prevalent that players gave names for what team composition they want to use?

Also, I play every class in case you were wondering. You might not know this, but you do actually get better once you understand how each classes work from a personal perspective.

So my constructive suggestions = fix things that are imbalanced sooner, make more than 2 classes viable per meta, create more modes. I know that I've never faced you. I have over 10000 games on the two accounts that I own. I have 4-5k games on engineer, 3k on guardian, 3k on warrior, 2k on revenant. I've played this game since launch. I've played pvp in this game since 6 months prior. I've won AG's. I've been legend in 4 different seasons. I'm currently top 200, but that might change. I've never once heard of your name, and I'm really doubting your credibility. So before you start criticizing me or telling me that I don't know anything, at least provide some of your experience in this game?

how would you go about fixing imbalanced classes so that every class and every spec is viable somehow? There are more than two viable classes, and ironically they are more diverse as you climb the ladders. Having more pvp modes would require a healthy player base, and guess who drove those player base away? The community itself. The problem with your credentials is that you made little to no use of your experience to actually bring insight as to what actually requires fixing, but merely stating your opinion because you think you're eligible for it. Your rational doesn't actually revolve around logic itself, but purely from a biased perspective with barely a premise to hold it up. What credibility do I need to tell you you've been saying the same things as other average players despite being "top 200 and a legend".

More diverse as you climb the ladder? You haven't climbed very high have you? Judging from how you haven't stated any bit of your experience with this game I can tell that you have none. I think it's been pretty readily stated what needs to be changed on warrior and necro. Rework the condi system (my opinion), the vast majority of people say full counter nerf (increase the cooldown I'm in favor for), and I'd also say nerf balanced stance, but I already know as soon as these two classes are nerfed we'll get an influx of Mesmers/Gaurdians or Mesmers/Elementalists, and I know it'll only be two viable specs that will be played because I've played at high tier pvp every single meta.

I suppose not, but if theres more diversity at my rating than where I climbed from, so I highly doubt players at the top don't have their own mains to climb the ladders with. Also, I'm not the one who needs to share my experience with the game considering how I'm not the one trying to "critique" it, and all I'm telling you is your mentality is a self-centered one rather than trying to broaden your mindset and find solutions rather than harping on the same problems other players have already brought up. If you know other classes will take over as the new "unbalanced" classes, then your entire point becomes moot. If you know how class hiearechy works, then this whole discussion was a waste of time in the first place.

[jbondo.9817]

The first point that I made was I don't think this whole thing is A-nets problem, and that I believe the reason I've had 100 matches facing the exact same thing is because this community as a whole gravitates to the two classes that are broken each meta (other games have metas where more than 2 things are spammed). That's the point that I'm making. You have people who've mained ranger and revenant now swapping to warrior and not adapting because they already understand that it's not a matter of adapting you hit a ceiling when it comes to dealing with the classes that are imbalanced. You can outplay as much as you want but generally the two classes that are spammed are doing everything you're doing in a more efficient manner in terms of conquest. (I also stated lets get something else besides conquest) So I'm not just bashing on a-net I'm somewhat bashing on the community.

[Lan.1968]

@jbondo.9817 said:

The first point that I made was I don't think this whole thing is A-nets problem, and that I believe the reason I've had 100 matches facing the exact same thing is because this community as a whole gravitates to the two classes that are broken each meta (other games have metas where more than 2 things are spammed). That's the point that I'm making. You have people who've mained ranger and revenant now swapping to warrior and not adapting because they already understand that it's not a matter of adapting you hit a ceiling when it comes to dealing with the classes that are imbalanced. You can outplay as much as you want but generally the two classes that are spammed are doing everything you're doing in a more efficient manner in terms of conquest. (I also stated lets get something else besides conquest) So I'm not just bashing on a-net I'm somewhat bashing on the community.

People will gravitate towards whatever works the best, broken or not. A lot of people will try to min-max all they can in order to achieve victory because there is the purpose of the game mode, and climbing the ladders don't adhere to what people enjoy to play the most. This is the golden rule of competition, and pretty much applies outside of just games as well. As for the faults on A-Net, I honestly think if the community tries to accept pvp a bit more, despite what their discontents are, and generate more player base, the company would make a move again. Otherwise, this forum sub is littered with ongoing complaints and a public outcry of people threatening to go on strike or creating ultimatums on not playing pvp until they get their ways.

[jbondo.9817]

@Lan.1968 said:

@jbondo.9817 said:

The first point that I made was I don't think this whole thing is A-nets problem, and that I believe the reason I've had 100 matches facing the exact same thing is because this community as a whole gravitates to the two classes that are broken each meta (other games have metas where more than 2 things are spammed). That's the point that I'm making. You have people who've mained ranger and revenant now swapping to warrior and not adapting because they already understand that it's not a matter of adapting you hit a ceiling when it comes to dealing with the classes that are imbalanced. You can outplay as much as you want but generally the two classes that are spammed are doing everything you're doing in a more efficient manner in terms of conquest. (I also stated lets get something else besides conquest) So I'm not just bashing on a-net I'm somewhat bashing on the community.

People will gravitate towards whatever works the best, broken or not. A lot of people will try to min-max all they can in order to achieve victory because there is the purpose of the game mode, and climbing the ladders don't adhere to what people enjoy to play the most. This is the golden rule of competition, and pretty much applies outside of just games as well. As for the faults on A-Net, I honestly think if the community tries to accept pvp a bit more, despite what their discontents are, and generate more player base, the company would make a move again. Otherwise, this forum sub is littered with ongoing complaints and a public outcry of people threatening to go on strike or creating ultimatums on not playing pvp until they get their ways.

good talk I think i'm just going to give up on this game maybe come back around when another expac releases

[Lan.1968]

@jbondo.9817 said:

@Lan.1968 said:

@jbondo.9817 said:

The first point that I made was I don't think this whole thing is A-nets problem, and that I believe the reason I've had 100 matches facing the exact same thing is because this community as a whole gravitates to the two classes that are broken each meta (other games have metas where more than 2 things are spammed). That's the point that I'm making. You have people who've mained ranger and revenant now swapping to warrior and not adapting because they already understand that it's not a matter of adapting you hit a ceiling when it comes to dealing with the classes that are imbalanced. You can outplay as much as you want but generally the two classes that are spammed are doing everything you're doing in a more efficient manner in terms of conquest. (I also stated lets get something else besides conquest) So I'm not just bashing on a-net I'm somewhat bashing on the community.

People will gravitate towards whatever works the best, broken or not. A lot of people will try to min-max all they can in order to achieve victory because there is the purpose of the game mode, and climbing the ladders don't adhere to what people enjoy to play the most. This is the golden rule of competition, and pretty much applies outside of just games as well. As for the faults on A-Net, I honestly think if the community tries to accept pvp a bit more, despite what their discontents are, and generate more player base, the company would make a move again. Otherwise, this forum sub is littered with ongoing complaints and a public outcry of people threatening to go on strike or creating ultimatums on not playing pvp until they get their ways.

good talk I think i'm just going to give up on this game maybe come back around when another expac releases

Well, I think you've completely missed my point there.

[Lighter.5631]

that's why other games has one hero per team rule, when overwatch had 2 monkeys meta and such they quickly implemted one hero rule so now its more diverse and fun to play, class stacking is never fun in pvp

[Drekor.5217]

@jbondo.9817 said:

@Lan.1968 said:

@jbondo.9817 said:

@Lan.1968 said:

@jbondo.9817 said:

@Lan.1968 said:You guys making a new thread to complain about the state of PvP should probably read previous thread first. All of these have been discussed and a lot are already answered. You're literally complaining for the sake of doing so and not actually trying to add anything constructive to "bettering" the pvp scene. also, meta exists in every game; deal with it.

I'm honestly allowed to complain man. You didn't add anything constructive besides complaining about me complaining. :)Meta exists in every game but it's not spammed like it is in this and has more variety, and I imagine your main is either a warrior or a necro. :)

Ya? What makes your complaint so exceptional that it adds to the betterment of the pvp scene whereas other complaints have failed in doing so? I did add a constructive advice to tell you to read before posting so you don't repeat the same things others have said for the last week, as though what you've experienced was unique only to you and only you thought of sharing this to others.

I don't think you understand what "meta's" really are. the reason something can rise to be a part of a "meta" is because it is the most viable method of fulfilling a purpose, which means the majority have come to the consensus which classes are on top and that is usually from players spamming the classes in pvp and getting results to reach that conclusion. Are you telling me that the league meta isn't the same adc/support bot, mage mid, bruiser jungle, and tank top consistently? How about the Overwatch meta of two tanks, two dps, and one support or one tank, two dps, and two supports? How about WoW where the meta comps are so prevalent that players gave names for what team composition they want to use?

Also, I play every class in case you were wondering. You might not know this, but you do actually get better once you understand how each classes work from a personal perspective.

So my constructive suggestions = fix things that are imbalanced sooner, make more than 2 classes viable per meta, create more modes. I know that I've never faced you. I have over 10000 games on the two accounts that I own. I have 4-5k games on engineer, 3k on guardian, 3k on warrior, 2k on revenant. I've played this game since launch. I've played pvp in this game since 6 months prior. I've won AG's. I've been legend in 4 different seasons. I'm currently top 200, but that might change. I've never once heard of your name, and I'm really doubting your credibility. So before you start criticizing me or telling me that I don't know anything, at least provide some of your experience in this game?

how would you go about fixing imbalanced classes so that every class and every spec is viable somehow? There are more than two viable classes, and ironically they are more diverse as you climb the ladders. Having more pvp modes would require a healthy player base, and guess who drove those player base away? The community itself. The problem with your credentials is that you made little to no use of your experience to actually bring insight as to what actually requires fixing, but merely stating your opinion because you think you're eligible for it. Your rational doesn't actually revolve around logic itself, but purely from a biased perspective with barely a premise to hold it up. What credibility do I need to tell you you've been saying the same things as other average players despite being "top 200 and a legend".

More diverse as you climb the ladder? You haven't climbed very high have you? Judging from how you haven't stated any bit of your experience with this game I can tell that you have none. I think it's been pretty readily stated what needs to be changed on warrior and necro. Rework the condi system (my opinion), the vast majority of people say full counter nerf (increase the cooldown I'm in favor for), and I'd also say nerf balanced stance, but I already know as soon as these two classes are nerfed we'll get an influx of Mesmers/Gaurdians or Mesmers/Elementalists, and I know it'll only be two viable specs that will be played because I've played at high tier pvp every single meta.

Yea if they nerfed condi's or even ended up just favoring power a bit more the bunker firebrand meta would be cancer to play. block block block block block block block heal to full block block block block

[snh.7091]

@jbondo.9817 said:this community just gravitates entirely to whatever is imbalanced and so you get stuck in 100-200 matches where you're seeing the exact same thing and PvP loses its appeal fast. If we'd like to develop as a community we'd have gentleman's agreements at higher levels of play where those classes aren't picked, but this community doesn't want to do that and would much rather spam whatever gets them a meaningless title.

that, sadly, is human nature. no developer can fix that. very few like a challenge, so the moment there is an exploit most go for it. they can't embrace failure as means to learn and improve.

weak.

[jbondo.9817]

Don't nerf condis to the point where they can't bring down a bunker, nerf them to the point where you have to actually know when to apply a condi burst to take down a bunker. We had this before and the game was far more competitive. There was a meta where staff ele was very strong, and I think anet toned down the healing in that same meta, so pretty much if a bunker is putting out too much healing or being too hard to kill nerf it. In my opinion supports should be squishy and not just stand on point, but know how to support their allies without being taken down rather than this stand on point and press all my buttons mentality.

[R E F L H E X.8413]

@jbondo.9817 said:rather than this stand on point and press all my buttons mentality.

Firebrands are different than that right now. I find myself trying to space out the tomes stuff to try to get the most 2 and 4 out of tome 2 and similar stuff on tome 3; although under pressure it doesnt always work out how I want.

@jbondo.9817 said:or being too hard to kill nerf it.

generally if youre not strong enough to support yourself that easily without being somewhat hard to kill your allies will just be ganked right beside you and youre useless, bad supports like weve had for so many years just makes support useless.

I'd really prefer another format to move support away from the word bunker.

[Kiritodatrth.1548]

@Lighter.5631 said:that's why other games has one hero per team rule, when overwatch had 2 monkeys meta and such they quickly implemted one hero rule so now its more diverse and fun to play, class stacking is never fun in pvp

^^^ That's the final solution... MMR should consider class 1 class, and never allow to change to a class already taken during the match. Not nerfing anything...