Explosives traitline , Grenade Kit and Bomb kit

[santenal.1054]

The goal of this post is to explain (to the Balance dev) what and why certain traits in the explosions traitline are (probably) bad and how to make Grenade Kit and Bomb Kit beter with relatively little work. (Not a PVE perspective)

I know I am far from the best person for this task , so if you think you have superior ideas or think I’m missing the ball entirely, leave a comment and maybe I’ll adjust the list. You can also suggest replacement traits for the already existing traits that I or you think are problematic (but I wont add those suggestions to the list). I also do not know what should do how much damage , so suggestions like those are also appreciated.

Traits:

Explosive Entrance :

Traits such as these weaponize every attack skill (as weak as they may be). People don't see it coming (no animation), it hits pretty hard (too much supplementary damage?) and the frequency it refreshes can be a little overwhelming (at the beginning of the fight and on high endurance regenerating builds).(this trait resembles the old unnerfed trait minesweeper alot (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Minesweeper )) which people also complained alot about. In the 27-3-2018 balance patch damage introducing traits such as these were all nerfed (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2018-03-27#Engineer ) yet the same kind of traits are again being introduced (Explosive Entrance) or buffed (Aim-Assisted Rocket). Damage preferably need to come from specific skills to which the enemy can react to, and not be done in such a sneaky or unavoidable way with traits. If you decide to keep this trait it's important to make sure that the damage output is acceptable and not overpowered (question: Is the damage overpowered?)

Grenadier :

All grenadier should do is increase the range of grenades +300 like it used to do before 23-6-2015. all the following have to be made baseline or removed.

Remove Lesser grenade barrage, the damage is verry random (potentially hard hitting) so people don't know whether to dodge or not.

The +60 explosion radius increases the surface area on which you must land your grenade to hit the enemy by a factor of 2.06, this is the reason why untraited grenades are utterly useless again moving targets (explosion radius got nerfed in 23-6-2015) (even in melee range). This radius increase has to be made baseline.

Make the baseline range for all grenade skills 1200 (like it used to be). Because 900 is too short for zerg fights and high mobility foes ,...

The throw velocity increase has to be made baseline for~~ the #1 skill~~ so we have a reliable long range poking damage attack. The #2, #3, #4, #5 and F skills probably (?) should have the slow velocity so you have to work a little to make the hard hitters connect with the enemy, and the enemy can see them comming. (do the same for mortar kit, that is basically grenade kit without the burst damage) (also make those skills glow brightly as soon as you have activated them so enemies have at least 0.5 seconds to recognize and dodge the incomming skill) (#2=Orange, #3=White, #4=Blue, #5=Green, F=Red) (give the bombs of bomb kit also colors, not a glow but just enlarge and paint the bombs)

Short fuse :

We lost the original trait that made bombs explode after 0.5 seconds, now it’s always 1 second (is this fine?). The 3 second fuse on Big Ol’ Bomb (bomb kit F skill) is ridiculous for a skill that doesn’t even do damage anymore (decrease the fuse time or make it detonatable ).

Glass Cannon :

Fine

Steel-Packed Powder :

Fine

Aim-Assisted Rocket + Orbital Command Strike (buffed on 25-2-2020):

Fine or not ? The Orbital Command Strike actually seems to hit quit hard (with a large radius) on the target Golem medium (2322 armor). Uninterrupted it takes about 20-25 seconds for the trait to go full cycle while casting from father than 450 range (for the trait to work).

The Orbital Command Strike is not something you can relly on because of the long cycle time of the trait and the Aim-assisted rockets are reflectable which is quite annoying. When reflections are present, you switch to non reflectable attacks, but your own rockets would keep triggering and attacking you .

Explosive Temper :

Fine

Blast Shield :

Fine but linked to Explosive Entrance

Shaped Charge :

Fine

Flashbang :

Daze (interrupts skills) and Blind are (strong) utilities that should be applied by a limited amount of skills, so people who recognize those skills know what to expect and can decide what to do (dodge or not). (Has the same refresh frequency as Explosive Entrance). Get rid of the +90% health requirement.

Shrapnel :

Cripple is a utility that should not be spammable (remove the cripple).Since Traitlines are thematic and the explosives traitline doesn't do much for condition damage builds, maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to add something extra to the benefit of condition damage builds that use Grenade Kit or Bomb Kit. I would suggest to make grenade explosions have a 33% chance to trigger the conditions and bomb/mortar explosions a 100% chance, also change the bleeding to 1 stack of 4 seconds and add 1 torment stack of 4 seconds. (if you do the calculations you will see that the damage numbers are verry reasonable and in line with other auto attack numbers)

Big Boomer :

Fine

[Kodama.6453]

Aim assisted rocket and too much supplementary damage?Is anyone even using that trait at all?

The fact that this trait requires you to stay 450 or further away to trigger is already a big downside. Especially since engineer lacks reliable ranged damage. Grenades and mortar are easily dodge at high range. Closing the gap to the engineer will completely shut down that trait.Then there is also the fact that it's affected by projectile hate.

I can't see how you can describe that trait as problematic (in the sense of too powerful) here when I am pretty sure that absolutely nobody is using it....

[santenal.1054]

@Kodama.6453 said:

The fact that this trait requires you to stay 450 or further away to trigger is already a big downside.

You are right, I completly overlooked that condition.

[wasss.1208]

That is a lot of stuff, lets see it one by one:

@"santenal.1054" said:... I also do not know what should do how much damage , so suggestions like those are also appreciated.

As far as I am aware, the balance team doesn't really look for feedback for numerical changes, but more of conceptual feedbacks.

Traits:

Explosive Entrance :

Traits such as these weaponize every attack skill (as weak as they may be). People don't see it coming (no animation), it hits pretty hard (too much supplementary damage?) and the frequency it refreshes can be a little overwhelming (at the beginning of the fight and on high endurance regenerating builds).(this trait resembles the old unnerfed trait minesweeper alot (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Minesweeper )) which people also complained alot about.

The problem with the old minesweeper was the fact, that it instantly dealt damage. At the moment of dodge, the enemy got damaged with no counterplay to it. If I can recall correctly, people dropped the whole playstyle, after the mines got an arming timer. Explosive Entrance (EE from now on) occurs after the first attack of every dodge, as well as the first hit of the fight. It is blockable, avoidable (and probably counterable with other means). Currently engineer has a lot of acces to vigor, both on holo and core engineer, so it occurs quite frequently, and honestly, any effects on dodge is stupid in my opinion, unless we are talking about a dodge based spec (Mirage, Daredevil). Despite this, an another rework is quite unlikely, so we are probably going to see this trait staying the way it is for a while.

In the 27-3-2018 balance patch damage introducing traits such as these were all nerfed (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2018-03-27#Engineer ) yet the same kind of traits are again being introduced (Explosive Entrance) or buffed (Aim-Assisted Rocket). Damage preferably need to come from specific skills to which the enemy can react to, and not be done in such a sneaky or unavoidable way with traits. If you decide to keep this trait it's important to make sure that the damage output is acceptable and not overpowered (question: Is the damage overpowered?)

The problem here is everyone compares EE to simple dodge traits, while it is a traitline specific effect. (Like Marksmanship, Tactics, Death Magic) This is obviously no excuse for this trait to be overpowered, but shouldn't be compared 1:1 to other traits. (Or honestly, nothing should be ever compared 1:1 in vacuum) The other thing is: this trait was in the game before february, and it did the same amount of damage it does now, the only difference to the current version is the way it dealt damage: the old version left a bomb at the start of the dodge, and exploded after a second, the current version deals damage with the first damage after the dodge.( https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Explosive_Entrance_(trait_skill) - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bomb_(trait_skill) )Obviously, the 33% blanket nerf should have been applied, but for further nerfs: I want to see holo shaved first, then see if this is still a problem. This trait isn't a problem on core engineer, probably because it rarely reaches high might stacks, to make this trait too opressive. If holo gets shaved, and this is still an outliner, then it should be nerfed more.

Grenadier :

All grenadier should do is increase the range of grenades +300 like it used to do before 23-6-2015. all the following have to be made baseline or removed.

Or add an aditional grenade, like it used to do. That would be useful with Shrapnel in condi builds, and more damage obviously adds value to power builds as well.

Remove Lesser grenade barrage, the damage is verry random (potentially hard hitting) so people don't know whether to dodge or not.

Agree. I personally hate damage on heals. Although I'm quite biased against this part of the trait, as all this does, is getting me revealed when I try to heal after Toss Elixir S.

The +60 explosion radius increases the surface area on which you must land your grenade to hit the enemy by a factor of 2.06, this is the reason why untraited grenades are utterly useless again moving targets (explosion radius got nerfed in 23-6-2015) (even in melee range). This radius increase has to be made baseline.Make the baseline range for all grenade skills 1200 (like it used to be). Because 900 is too short for zerg fights and high mobility foes ,...

I have no strong opinion on this, as the last time I tried to use it in zerg fights, it got caught by projectile hate all the time anyways.

The throw velocity increase has to be made baseline for the #1 skill so we have a reliable long range poking damage attack. The #2, #3, #4, #5 and F skills probably (?) should have the slow velocity so you have to work a little to make the hard hitters connect with the enemy, and the enemy can see them comming. (also make those skills glow brightly as soon as you have activated them so enemies have at least 0.5 seconds to recognize and dodge the incomming skill) (#2=Orange, #3=White, #4=Blue, #5=Green, F=Red) (give the bombs of bomb kit also colors, not a glow but just enlarge and paint the bombs)

I personally would make the velocity increase baseline on the whole kit. It would feel odd to have attacks using different velocities.

Short fuse :

We lost the original trait that made bombs explode after 0.5 seconds, now it’s always 1 second (is this fine?). Do we also need the cooldown reduction on bomb kit skills back?

We got CD reduction as baseline in february. We don't have a way to quicken the explosion at the moment. This kit feels generally weak in PvP, due to the delay on skills.

The 3 second fuse on Big Ol’ Bomb (bomb kit F skill) is ridiculous for a skill that doesn’t even do damage anymore.

I personally don't mind this skill beign the way it is. It is a strong CC on a 20 seconds cooldown, you can use it to deny an area, or blast fire or smoke fields, coming with the bomb kit. It doing damage would be a nice addition, though. It could make bomb kit better to use.

Glass Cannon :

Fine

Steel-Packed Powder :

Fine

Aim-Assisted Rocket (buffed on 25-2-2020):

Triggerable by every damage skill and too much supplementary (AOE) damage. While the animations are verry dodgeable the frequency that you would have to dodge is just too much.Fine

I would make the rockets homing, and unblockable. The only place I could see this trait work is WvW, but projectile hate is almost permanently up there, so it would be just better to not pick any trait, than picking this. Homing could also help in PvP, if someone decide to actually try this out. Nerf the rocket if needed, although 0.5 power coeff. doesn't sound too strong at the moment, but with a 3 seconds cooldown, it could become opressive.

Explosive Temper :

Fine

Blast Shield :

Fine but linked to Explosive Entrance

Shaped Charge :

Fine

Flashbang :

Daze (interrupts skills) and Blind are (strong) utilities that should be applied by a limited amount of skills, so people who recognize those skills know what to expect and can decide what to do (dodge or not). (Has the same refresh frequency as Explosive Entrance)

This is an another hop topic, and subject to hatred at the moment. I personally doesn't find it outstanding, compared to the other two Grandmaster choices. All three has a great impact on survivability. (Big Boomer less so, but it increases damage, too)

Shrapnel :

Cripple is a utility that should not be spammable (remove it)

Without cripple, this trait would be straight up bad.

Big Boomer :

Fine

Additional, slightly off topic:

Every single nerf done to Explosives should be given back to an another core traitline, as core Engineer underperforms in every gamemode. It doesn't have 3 good traitlines and the weapons, with the exception of shield, are bad.

[santenal.1054]

I have added some videos of "Aim-Assisted Rocket + Orbital Command Strike" with different amulets. The Aim-assisted rocket seems acceptable but the Orbital strike packs quite a punch with a large radius. Are these kind of numbers acceptable for PVP ?

[wasss.1208]

@"santenal.1054" said:I have added some videos of "Aim-Assisted Rocket + Orbital Command Strike" with different amulets. The Aim-assisted rocket seems acceptable but the Orbital strike packs quite a punch with a large radius. Are these kind of numbers acceptable for PVP ?

Orbital Strike should have a 0.9 power coeff., as its damage was nerfed last patch, but the cooldown was brought down too (the toolbelt skill). According to the wiki, the proc from this trait should be using the same 0.9 coeff.

You should do tests in matches, and see how often it actually hits, as this is where this trait falls short. At least according to the tests I did in february. It is hard to get value from this, as you lose access to it the moment you get focused by anyone melee range, or the enemy moves.