RNG and the Lottery

[TwilightSoul.9048]

"Always make sure that the fight you´re getting into is already won"-unknown

That's not much of a fight though isn't it? That's what someone with nor courage or ambitions would do.RNG is what makes things interesting - if I knew the outcome of every action I coul possibly take in this game then I would not be playing it.And why would I, there would be no challenge no objective, nothing, everything would just be a matter of time. And time, to me, is the most valuable thing in my entire life. I do know the frustration that comes with RNG but with that frustration comes the desire to overcome - which is what keeps people going.

For the record: the most valuable thing I dropped since Open beta was Chaos Gun (Precursor for Quip) on my Elementalist after almost 5 Years of playing this game during a time where Chaos Gun was worth a whooping 200g, I could've bought 4 of them at that time. Everything else of value on my account was earned through hard work and amazing friend.

[jbrother.1340]

@"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:Over the years there has been rage over RNG, in a genre that almost exclusively depends on this mechanic.

First is was a few things... precursors, ascended, fossils, shoes... but now people are complaining about ANYTHING not dropping for them.

When collections came out, prices of named exos spiked, nobody complained. Now with PoF collections everyone complains. Why?

Now, I dont play the lotto, or gamble IRL but isnt the whole point about EXCITEMENT?

You dont go to the store and say "I have been playing lotto for 20 years and never won!!!! This is unacceptable! I demmand you give me a guaranteed win if I collect x many lotto tickets(map currency)!"

No. You dont.Why cant we just enjoy the spontaneuety of our drops and be happy when whe finally get it?

Besides, real talk here... I have been seeing many of you complaining about grind.

You realize less RNG=More Grind, right?

That you don't gamble in real life might be the reason you don't understand.

Go into a Casino sometime. A lot of those patrons are not having an exciting time, they are depressed addicts. Only some people (a lot I know) use gambling as excitement.

I think it could be said that for most gambling is the last recourse they think they have in desperation to make money or they are addicted and have some kind of mental illness.

I use to go to the local casino a lot years back, mostly for free drinks and money as they had tons of fun promotions. I saw some ugly stuff. I don't go back anymore.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

@TwilightSoul.9048 said:

"Always make sure that the fight you´re getting into is already won"-unknown

That's not much of a fight though isn't it? That's what someone with nor courage or ambitions would do.RNG is what makes things interesting - if I knew the outcome of every action I coul possibly take in this game then I would not be playing it.And why would I, there would be no challenge no objective, nothing, everything would just be a matter of time. And time, to me, is the most valuable thing in my entire life. I do know the frustration that comes with RNG but with that frustration comes the desire to overcome - which is what keeps people going.

For the record: the most valuable thing I dropped since Open beta was Chaos Gun (Precursor for Quip) on my Elementalist after almost 5 Years of playing this game during a time where Chaos Gun was worth a whooping 200g, I could've bought 4 of them at that time. Everything else of value on my account was earned through hard work and amazing friend.

I can answer somewhat this for myself. Winning is the ultimate answer. I couldn't care less for the challenge of it as long I get the object I desire. I don't play games to get masochistly punished like dark souls when it comes to RNG. I play to see my prize and take it with a pre-planned route and course of action.

[TwilightSoul.9048]

I can answer somewhat this for myself. Winning is the ultimate answer. I couldn't care less for the challenge of it as long I get the object I desire. I don't play games to get masochistly punished like dark souls when it comes to RNG. I play to see my prize and take it with a pre-planned route and course of action.

And how does winning feel rewarding, fun or a challenge when there's no alternative?It's not even winning if there never was another option. It's not winning when there is no alternative. How is that fun? Imagine playing Mario Kart (Or any other racing game) with a bunch of friends, except they just drop their controllers and watch you until you're finally done and start celebrating you like some superstar. And they do that every. single. time.

Mario Kart (still just an example) is fun BECAUSE you can loose at any time due to blue shell or whatever but you can actually still win even after getting hit by a blue shell. And that's what keeps it exciting. If there are no blue shells it's just a matter of experience, when I race my friends and no one gets a blue shell then I win 100% - it's just boring, not only for my friends who keep loosing but also for me, winning all the time is exactly the same as loosing.

[BeardedVagabond.8136]

What the hell are you on about?Did you actually do a Google search or? Because I just did, and there are plenty on complaints on the RNG in this game over the years. That point is moot.

I think you Aldo need to figure out what a "gamble" and RNG drop is. Because they are two different universes.Gambling in this game is the mystic forge, blc, and the casino/ Tarkington ecto gambles. You pay for a chance at something better.

Where as (what I assume you feel needed to bring up) RNG is NONE of those. That's literally the complete opposite. This is drops from chests and monsters for a chance at loot. You don't pay into it. This has frustrated players since day 1. The precursor hunts were a start(but not quite the fix as they are cheaper on tp)People who prefer to play game are frustrated that things in collections (don't even get me started on Sam) are tied to RNG. Where they do not belong.

[TwilightSoul.9048]

Of course they belong gated behind rng, those achievements would have been forgotten long ago if they were just another time gated thing. They aren't neccessary for anything important, they are a long time goal. Which, by the way, you can also achieve by grinding gold, if you prefer that.And of course you find plenty of complaints on RNG for this game, you also find plenty of complaints about literally every class in PvP - that's got to be some sort of internet rule: "If it exists: Someone complained about it", is that a thing? I think I have to do some research...

[BeardedVagabond.8136]

@TwilightSoul.9048 said:Of course they belong gated behind rng, those achievements would have been forgotten long ago if they were just another time gated thing. They aren't neccessary for anything important, they are a long time goal. Which, by the way, you can also achieve by grinding gold, if you prefer that.And of course you find plenty of complaints on RNG for this game, you also find plenty of complaints about literally every class in PvP - that's got to be some sort of internet rule: "If it exists: Someone complained about it", is that a thing? I think I have to do some research...

Define long term. Because 3 years of RNG collection waiting is a significant wait. You can get them of tp, did that change the frustration of players?

I like how you didn't read the part where the op claimed that no one complained about RNG, and then changed subject.

[TwilightSoul.9048]

Neither did I change the subject nor did I not read anything. You're missing the point there. What I was saying is: Just because someone complains doesn't mean he actually has a point in general. There are many different people with many different opinions and tempers. Short tempered people tend to get frustrated really easily and in turn complain really quick and blame everything on others.While other people rather take failure as a point of motivation. As I said before, I play the game for 5 Years now and no I do not have all drops for the treasure hunter collection yet and yes that's one of the reasons why I still play the game.I can perfectly understand anyone quitting the game because he doesn't get what he wants, there are many games that reward you in a way shorter time span. (Mobas for example) But RPG's can't really do that after a while. When you've just started the game there are many new things that keep the game exciting because your character is steadily progressing but at some point that just stops and turns into fashion wars with some treasure hunter stuff mixed in for those that care about that. And that's where long term comittmend kicks in with stuff like sam or chak egg sac. If you could just reliably drop those after 1-3 Months of effort then this game would slowly but surely loose many veteran players. I know 3 Years is a long time and it's been 5 years for me (71% done with treasure hunter) but there's more then just treasure hunter that keeps me playing. For example I'm trying to get my hands on a Vial of liquid aurelium and a chak egg sac and I'm still working on filling up my wallet with gold so I can loose all my gold in gambling again so I can finally get the portable sandstorm thing and there are more achievements for me to finish and I can mix all that up whenever I want to try my luck with the Eye of Zhaitan for example, that's always a welcome change to the regular more grindy gameplay. If I didn't have those opportunitys to just try my luck then I wouldn't play this game - HoT Metas don't feel rewarding at all, I do them because I have to if I don't want to craft my AG's, they are exciting because they offer a chance of a very rare item that is actually special.

[TwilightSoul.9048]

For some reason I cannot edit my previous comment so I apologize for posting twice here.

@Nick Lentz.6982 said:Define long term.

Anything that you cannot achieve at any chosen point in time. Anything that requires an undefined amount of effort.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

@TwilightSoul.9048 said:

I can answer somewhat this for myself. Winning is the ultimate answer. I couldn't care less for the challenge of it as long I get the object I desire. I don't play games to get masochistly punished like dark souls when it comes to RNG. I play to see my prize and take it with a pre-planned route and course of action.

And how does winning feel rewarding, fun or a challenge when there's no alternative?It's not even winning if there never was another option. It's not winning when there is no alternative. How is that fun? Imagine playing Mario Kart (Or any other racing game) with a bunch of friends, except they just drop their controllers and watch you until you're finally done and start celebrating you like some superstar. And they do that every. single. time.

Mario Kart (still just an example) is fun BECAUSE you can loose at any time due to blue shell or whatever but you can actually still win even after getting hit by a blue shell. And that's what keeps it exciting. If there are no blue shells it's just a matter of experience, when I race my friends and no one gets a blue shell then I win 100% - it's just boring, not only for my friends who keep loosing but also for me, winning all the time is exactly the same as loosing.

You and I have different definition of fun then and winning. It is still winning when there are no alternatives to something. Yes, I get enjoyment from it. I would be fine with that Mario Kart example because I still got the prize which is all that matters.

I don't find the aspect of loosing in Mario kart ever fun. The blue shell example is my definition of anti-fun and not enjoyable. I don't find it boring it all when it's pure skill and planning when I accomplish something. The fun is the planning and executing of the operation.

[Ohoni.6057]

I definitely believe that RNG always need balance. Few if any things should be SUPER RNG. I mean I've been playing since launch and have NEVER gotten a Precursor. That just isn't right. Things can be rare, but nothing should be that rare. I also think that there should always be "safety-nets" to RNG, places where you can "buy" any item that normally takes RNG, but of course the RNG route would be cheaper if it pans out. There should just never be cases where an accountbound item relies on massive levels of RNG to earn it.

RNG should be a potential shortcut, not a gatekeeper.

[BeardedVagabond.8136]

@TwilightSoul.9048 said:For some reason I cannot edit my previous comment so I apologize for posting twice here.

@Nick Lentz.6982 said:Define long term.

Anything that you cannot achieve at any chosen point in time. Anything that requires an undefined amount of effort.

there is so much journey one can enjoy before they need to reach their destination :p.Which there lies the problem. Doing something 10,000 times and receiving not what you had hoped becomes tedious and boring. You either move to next thing, and come back. But the problem is still there.

[TwilightSoul.9048]

I don't find it boring it all when it's pure skill and planning when I accomplish something. The fun is the planning and executing of the operation.

But how is there any skill involved when you just rinse and repeat and never have to adapt to something unexpected?That's like Tic-tac-toe between two experienced players, it always ends in a draw. Always! Because you can't do anything unexpected.

To me, fun is to overcome an unfavorable situation or any hurdle in general. Not something which I just have to memorize and train.But I know, different people enjoy different things and I'm afraid MMORPG's are not the right type of game for you. Neither are Pokemon, Poker, Shooters, Chess and so on. The Metroid series should be great for you it's all about recognizing patterns there to beat the game and they have a great story too :)Or, of course, you could just enjoy GW2 and not care about the luxury items like Aura Infusions and the Treasure Hunter Achievement, or you go the safe "non-rng" route and buy everything.Some of you act as if you had to rely on rng just to get anywhere...

[TwilightSoul.9048]

@Nick Lentz.6982 said:Which there lies the problem. Doing something 10,000 times and receiving not what you had hoped becomes tedious and boring. You either move to next thing, and come back. But the problem is still there.

Or maybe the real problem is that you're doing it 10.000 times, thinking afterwards you're done even though it doesn't say anywhere that you have to do it 10.000 times. Just do it whenever you feel like it, you're not on a timer. I can't tell you how many times since HoT release I've been sick of doing Chak Gerent, hoping that I'd get the Char Egg sac. You know what I did? I just did something else that I enjoyed doing and came back to Gerent when I felt like it. And suddenly I actually had fun doing Gerent every few days - now I hate it again but guess what, I still enjoy the game, I'm just not gonna do Gerent for a while, instead I think I'll try Eye of Zhaitan once more.

Oh since I mentioned Eye of Zhaitan, do you know what bothers me more than anything else in the game? More than the fact that I haven't dropped the Treasure Hunter item after 5 Years? The fact that people don't do the kitten post event of the Eye of Zhaitan event chain, that thing takes 5 minutes and resets the event chain and every time I wanna do Eye of Zhaitan: The NPC is dead because no one did the Post Event. Good Job. I wish Anet would move the rewardchest to the end of the Event Chain (without mentioning it in the patch notes) just to see how long it takes for those kittens to figure out that they should do the kitten post event...

[Doctor Hide.6345]

@TwilightSoul.9048 said:

I don't find it boring it all when it's pure skill and planning when I accomplish something. The fun is the planning and executing of the operation.

But how is there any skill involved when you just rinse and repeat and never have to adapt to something unexpected?That's like Tic-tac-toe between two experienced players, it always ends in a draw. Always! Because you can't do anything unexpected.

To me, fun is to overcome an unfavorable situation or any hurdle in general. Not something which I just have to memorize and train.But I know, different people enjoy different things and I'm afraid MMORPG's are not the right type of game for you. Neither are Pokemon, Poker, Shooters, Chess and so on. The Metroid series should be great for you it's all about recognizing patterns there to beat the game and they have a great story too :)Or, of course, you could just enjoy GW2 and not care about the luxury items like Aura Infusions and the Treasure Hunter Achievement, or you go the safe "non-rng" route and buy everything.Some of you act as if you had to rely on rng just to get anywhere...

I have been playing MMOs since 2004, so saying they are not for me is a fallacy on your end. I have also been playing chess since 2008 along with all the other things you mentioned. You couldn't be more wrong in so many ways because chess is all about pattern recognition and pre-planning setting your opponent up. Same with shooters. You just have to learn to play people into doing what you want. There are many ways to plays games. They are not all have fun with unexpected stuff when you pre-plan for it.

I do buy most things in this game and avoid any of the annoying RNG items. I don't care for aura infusions also or that AP.

[TwilightSoul.9048]

I have been playing MMOs since 2004, so saying they are not for me is a fallacy on your end. I have also been playing chess since 2008 along with all the other things you mentioned. You couldn't be more wrong in so many ways because chess is all about pattern recognition and pre-planning setting your opponent up. Same with shooters. You just have to learn to play people into doing what you want. There are many ways to plays games. They are not all have fun with unexpected stuff when you pre-plan for it.

I've been saying they are not for you because I cannot understand how you would enjoy them if you don't like the unexpected, or do you watch a playthrough before you play them? And as for chess and Shooters - yes they are about pattern recognition and pre planning but what makes them fun is the uncertainty, the fact that you CAN prepare for every possible situation but you cannot predict WHICH situation is gonna happen, you can predict based on likelyhood. And you can do the same with super rare drops in GW2, you know those Items CAN drop but you also know they are extremely rare so you have to evaluate for yourself weather you want to grind certain events for a chance of dropping said item or instead you can utilize your gold to obtain those items. That's the same side of the coin as pre planning in chess.

(Blue Shell in Mario Kart as well by the way, almost every game has counterplay to almost every possible situation, it's just a matter of experience. The only games that rely solely on luck are games like "Let's roll a dice, highest roll wins")

[Doctor Hide.6345]

@TwilightSoul.9048 said:

I have been playing MMOs since 2004, so saying they are not for me is a fallacy on your end. I have also been playing chess since 2008 along with all the other things you mentioned. You couldn't be more wrong in so many ways because chess is all about pattern recognition and pre-planning setting your opponent up. Same with shooters. You just have to learn to play people into doing what you want. There are many ways to plays games. They are not all have fun with unexpected stuff when you pre-plan for it.

I've been saying they are not for you because I cannot understand how you would enjoy them if you don't like the unexpected, or do you watch a playthrough before you play them? And as for chess and Shooters - yes they are about pattern recognition and pre planning but what makes them fun is the uncertainty, the fact that you CAN prepare for every possible situation but you cannot predict WHICH situation is gonna happen, you can predict based on likelyhood. And you can do the same with super rare drops in GW2, you know those Items CAN drop but you also know they are extremely rare so you have to evaluate for yourself weather you want to grind certain events for a chance of dropping said item or instead you can utilize your gold to obtain those items. That's the same side of the coin as pre planning in chess.

(Blue Shell in Mario Kart as well by the way, almost every game has counterplay to almost every possible situation, it's just a matter of experience. The only games that rely solely on luck are games like "Let's roll a dice, highest roll wins")

I am just going to stop this here before it goes too off the topic, so this will be my last post. Yes, I watch people play games before I myself play them. I play them because I like to socialize in them, so I deal with the RNG side of it and try to mitigate it when possible. Playing with friends though is my main driving force and some fashion wars.

Like I originally said, we just have different definitions on fun and such which is fine. You don't have to understand why I like certain things, or why I play MMOs. You do you, and I do I. If I was interested in getting those items in GW2, I would do exactly that with the pre-planning of it to get the best way possible for it to drop. As I am not for most of those things, I don't do them. I find most legendaries to be ugly imo.