Guardian Axe 3 vs. Reaper Greatsword 5

1) Guardian axe pull doesn't bug out on terrain since it's elevated.

2) Grasping darkness 24 sec cd, double that of guardian's 12 sec cd on axe 3. Virtually same functionality.

3) Guardian axe 3 cannot be reflected.

So explain to me how the spec with a variety of ranged spells gets a better gap closer than the melee heavy spec, how guardian has half the cooldown on what is a pulling tool that is far more effective at grouping up mobs unlike the bugged to hell Grasping Darkness they haven't fixed in over 3 years (reaper is in good company with revenant, whose half of spells don't work based on terrain irregularities).

I don't want to hear about greatsword chill. Guardian axe applies a supremely more useful burning which gives follow up burst to pulling someone in over a snare most classes easily remove nowadays.

It would be nice if these developers actually shared a spreadsheet on classes instead of each designing his group of classes with values separate from the other group.

It would also help explain how spectral grasp is a whopping 50 sec cd and costs a utility slot while guardian greatsword 5 does the job just as well at half the cooldown and comes integrated with the weapon. Why Whirling Wrath does so much more damage than Gravedigger on a spec that has no traps or symbols to complement damage in between gravedigger usage.

The sheer mediocrity of reaper tools in PvE, from output to the shouts and mediocre adept and grandmaster traits and the most useless Shivers of Dread minor trait in the game will not be acceptable design once the distraction of Scourge is gone with the nerfs.

The devs place a lot of value on Chill.

Honestly I can't disagree with them, if you can't cleanse Chill you're in real trouble.

Or is this just a PvE post?

@Sarrs.4831 said:The devs place a lot of value on Chill.

Honestly I can't disagree with them, if you can't cleanse Chill you're in real trouble.

Or is this just a PvE post?

PvE, yes.

In PvP pretty much anyone but mesmer or engineer can cleanse chill trivially. Daredevil is virtually immune to chill, and so is warrior with their resistance uptime since power reaper has no boon hate whatsoever outside focus 5 unlike condi necro. Ele and guardian are condi clear powerhouses and power reaper doesn't have any condi coverage at all to deal with cleanses.

While I'm not defending the bugs with Grasping Darkness, let's look at the whole picture if we're comparing the differences between Grasping Darkness and Blazing Edge.

• Targets: Grasping Darkness (GD) affects 5 targets, while Blazing Edge (BE) applies 3
• Base Damage: The base damage for GD is 524, approaching double that of BE's 293
• Condi Damage (No Traits): At base level, BE has greater damage due to Chill only applying bleeds when Deathly Chill is traited.
• Condi Damage (With Traits): With Deathly Chill, Grasping Darkness has a guaranteed chance of applying 3 stacks of bleed for 5 seconds for 330 damage in addition to a 4.8 second chill. On the other hand, BE does do slightly more base damage with its burning, and only has a 33% chance to increase that from 393 to 459 damage per target. Taking into account the increased target count of GD however, GD has a greater potential for damage.
• Additional effects: GD grants 4% LF for each target struck, for a potential total of 20% if 5 targets are hit (22% with Gluttony traited in Soul Reaping)

When comparing more factors, it becomes more apparent why GD has a longer cooldown than BE, and while GD is more prone to being blocked, it also has more sever repercussions for those hit by it compared to BE. Granted, GD has the weakness of having its projectiles travel along the ground (which is why it has been somewhat more prone to bugs), but purely from a numbers perspective GD is stronger than BE.

@Zenith.7301 said:It would also help explain how spectral grasp is a whopping 50 sec cd and costs a utility slot while guardian greatsword 5 does the job just as well at half the cooldown and comes integrated with the weapon.

Generally speaking, utility skills have higher cooldown for the same effect as an equivalent weapon skill - probably in part because weapon skills come as a package, while the only opportunity cost for a utility skill is the slot (unless you're a revenent). Look at Illusionary Ambush versus Axes of Symmetry on the Mirage, and that's just the first example that comes to mind.

@Zenith.7301 said:

@Sarrs.4831 said:The devs place a lot of value on Chill.

Honestly I can't disagree with them, if you can't cleanse Chill you're in real trouble.

Or is this just a PvE post?

Spite/Curses/Reaper > everything else ! (and stronger than ever before after the last balance patch due to 3% LF degen buff)

2 seconds after I engaged my opponent he has to deal with at least 6 conditions (halve of them soft cc and pretty much all his boons corrupted/stripped) - that's where chill becomes a real pain in the ass for him. If he has no leap/blink off CD he is just a punching bag for me and as good as dead.

@topic:Grasping Darkness:

• 750 range
• 5 targets
• chill
• more direct damage
• generates up to 22% Life Force
• tons of synergies with traits (Chiling Nova, Chilling Victory, Cold Shoulder.......)
• strong combo: GS5 -> stow weapon -> GS2 ... or: GS5 -> shroud burst

@KrHome.1920 said:

@topic:Grasping Darkness:

• 750 range
• 5 targets
• chill
• more direct damage
• generates up to 22% Life Force
• tons of synergies with traits (Chiling Nova, Chilling Victory, Cold Shoulder.......)
• strong combo: GS5 -> stow weapon -> GS2 ... or: GS5 -> shroud burst

• RANGE: it has an ultra NARROW CONE, making it SIDESTEPPABLE + you have more time to see the animation at close range. Effective range verdict 750-350.
• 5 targets ... lol
• chill ... cleansed or perma resisted
• Damage calculated into control /setup abilities = 2x medium hiting unreliable abilities = 0 dmg in reality
• 22% lifeforce ... mana build up on unreliable abilities ... lol
• chill synergie , ok
• strong , ehm i mean ultra high risk/ medium reward combo: requires aftercast cancelling because the main combo isnt even a true combo because 1s stun > 1.25s cast

BONUS POINT:Anet bragged how it took them a lot of work to create new tech for the fancy pull. So a lot of work time produces a 30 degree, 3x hovering projectile which are unreliable on a game engine level, while guardian gs#5 works in 360 degree as one of the meta reliable pulls since launch.You can buy squarre wheels if you value such work.

reasons why i never used the greatsword felt too slow and half over half the attacks it had were useless. also can't rely on the bleed on chill anymore cause it'll force you to use runes that don't fit a condition build well. another thing the nerf to spectral grasp was overkill 30 or 40 seconds would have been fine.

@Zenith.7301 said:

So explain to me how the spec with a variety of ranged spells gets a better gap closer than the melee heavy spec, how guardian has half the cooldown on what is a pulling tool that is far more effective at grouping up mobs unlike the bugged to hell Grasping Darkness they haven't fixed in over 3 years (reaper is in good company with revenant, whose half of spells don't work based on terrain irregularities).

Well that's easy to explain, HoT was released less than two years ago... so Grasping Darkness has not existed for three years. You know that hyperbole doesn't actually help arguments and calls any valid points you make in to question, right? Better question would be why does thief Scorpion Wire still not pull enemies if there is more than a pixel of height difference, making it a nearly useless skill for about four years?

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:

So explain to me how the spec with a variety of ranged spells gets a better gap closer than the melee heavy spec, how guardian has half the cooldown on what is a pulling tool that is far more effective at grouping up mobs unlike the bugged to hell Grasping Darkness they haven't fixed in

over 3 years

(reaper is in good company with revenant, whose half of spells don't work based on terrain irregularities).

Because thief has actual mobility and their cast times are all consistently under 3/4 seconds, paired with far higher damage output in both power and condi specs now.

Not like you'd ever slot scorpion wire when you've got steal, shadowstep (2x port, 2x stunbreak, 1x 2 condi clear all in one utility skill, trade you any of the necro utilities for it or Bandit's Defense which is also a 15 sec cd stunbreak that blocks and knocks down), and shadowshot or vault to stay on a target.

If you want to cry about thief, how about the fact that with your trait modifiers, Vault does more damage than a Gravedigger, has evade frames, has a leap built in, and has a shorter cast time. On the same weapon whose autoattack also does more DPS than reaper greatsword auto by a wide margin.

@Zenith.7301 said:power reaper has no boon hate whatsoever outside focus 5 unlike condi necro.

If we're directly comparing greatsword this is just plain wrong; greatsword has four boonflips. Axe has one of the best AoE boonflips and Dagger MH has a boonflip too. You'll also have Spiteful Spirit, you might have Weakening Shroud, you might have Well of Corruption (yes, wells are actually good) or Corrupt Boon (yes, corruptions & MoC are actually good for reaper), you can take the boonstrip sigil... You have many good options for boonhate.