The Great Dwarf

This is likely poor understanding on my part, so i thought I'd ask here for clarification.

The Dwarves became the collective consciousness after partaking in the Rite of the Great Dwarf to battle the Great Destroyer. This was predicted in the Tome of Rubicon and it was also mentioned the Great Dwarf fought the Great Destroyer previously. Now does that infer the rite was taken by an ancient generation of Dwarves and eventually, given time or another source, they reverted back to their standard form generations later, leaving only the myth and legend behind them? If so, is it reasonable to think that the Dwarves as a race could return in the distant future?

It was one of the things I was idly thinking about whilst doing the Hidden Arcana and reading the books there.

Separately I was also thinking about how we haven't seen an lasting residue of a previous "Brand" from an ancient Dragonrise. I wonder if it just dissipates over generations when Kralk is dormant?

There's a theory that floating around that the sand in the Crystal Desert- all of it tiny grains of crystal- is exactly that, not dissipated so much as ground down by the sea and passing millennia.

As far as the Rite goes, though, it's not clear. It might have been used in the past by all of the dwarves who later turned back to flesh, or it might have been used by some of the dwarves while leaving others fleshy to carry on the race, or it might have been developed but never used. Personally, with the way it's tied up with the Great Destroyer, my suspicion is that it was either developed entirely after the last rise as preparation for the next, or late enough in the last rise that there wasn't a chance to use it, leaving it to be repurposed as their opening move for the next round.

Interesting! Thanks Aaron

@"Randulf.7614" said:This is likely poor understanding on my part, so i thought I'd ask here for clarification.

The Dwarves became the collective consciousness after partaking in the Rite of the Great Dwarf to battle the Great Destroyer. This was predicted in the Tome of Rubicon and it was also mentioned the Great Dwarf fought the Great Destroyer previously. Now does that infer the rite was taken by an ancient generation of Dwarves and eventually, given time or another source, they reverted back to their standard form generations later, leaving only the myth and legend behind them? If so, is it reasonable to think that the Dwarves as a race could return in the distant future?

It was one of the things I was idly thinking about whilst doing the Hidden Arcana and reading the books there.

Partial answer from Jeff Grubb, when asked about the Great Dwarf's nature:

Jeff Grubb: The Great Dwarf can best be thought of as collective consciousness of the dwarves themselves (indeed, in making the prophesy of the Great Dwarf defeating the Great Destroyer coming true). Has anyone MET the Great Dwarf, and found him to be a real being? Well, that has not happened.

https://www.guildmag.com/gmblitz-lore-interview-with-jeff-grubb/

This, to me, implies that once upon a time there was an individual who was a god-like being. After all, dwarves have legends of the Great Dwarf creating dwarves, and having done various things like using the Anvil of Dragrimmar.

And I just now noticed something interesting about said anvil:

Upon its face he forged weapons with the strength of our people and shields as unbreakable as our collective will.

Makes me wonder if the anvil was used to create the Rite of the Great Dwarf, perhaps the Hammer of the Great Dwarf to house said ritual, as that would certainly match that metaphorical description in a much more literal sense.

I've always hypothesized that the "Great Dwarf" might have been a powerful jotun spellcaster, given the size of the anvil the size of jotun would certainly fit for a being using it, and that the dwarves were created as they are now, legend mixing the two together and turning it into a god, and that they were turned to flesh by Dwayna later on thus explaining why they revere her and her son, Grenth, while never talking about any other god.

But there's not really anything to support said speculation.

@"Randulf.7614" said:Separately I was also thinking about how we haven't seen an lasting residue of a previous "Brand" from an ancient Dragonrise. I wonder if it just dissipates over generations when Kralk is dormant?

In Edge of Destiny, Glint makes note to say she's been collecting Kralkatorrik's crystallized blood from the Crystal Desert, and used that to create the Dragonsblood Spear.

Some of the crystals also look like the crystals found in Glint's Lair, which would be, in turn, Glint's variation of Kralkatorrik's magic; however, something resembling an ancient Searing Cauldron which are heavily hinted to be empowered by Kralkatorrik could be found in the northern Desolation which could account for this.

Then there's also the Orrian History Scrolls which talk about Balthazar burning away the land and Melandru growing new plants over it. Given Glint's history, Orr was likely Kralkatorrik's domain at least in part during the previous dragonrise, but this could be a likely explanation for why we don't see any Elder Dragon's corruption.

Some useful info, thank you. Ill check out that cauldron next time im in game as well

I think that the greatest issue of the idea of the dwarves not being flesh during the last dragon rise is the Mursaat lore we were given in Ember Bay. They speak of the dwarves as hiding behind fortresses, but the dwarves that we know after taking the Rite of the Great Dwarf do not have he mindset to sit back and hope to defend themselves from the Dragon minions. They are very gung ho about taking the fight to the enemy, they would have been right in the middle of the fight next to the Mursaat and Jotun. Still, it would be very interesting to learn what their full plans for the Great Dwarf and dwarves were. Hopefully someday.

I wouldn't trust those records anyways, given that other lore we have on the dwarves indicate that they not only fought destroyers regularly, but icebrood too. Fought them enough to get samples of Jormag's blood and turn it into a sword, and even researched dragon corruption (or at least Jormag's) enough to create a method to prevent said blade from corrupting the wielder.

Those tablets come off more as either very retconny (particularly about the seers), or a case of "if they're not helping me, they're not helping at all."

I wouldn't disagree that there is likely some falsehood to it, but there might be some truth to it, even if it is as simple as the dwarves were unwilling to go fight against Zhaitan because they were too tied up with Primordus and Jormag.