Obligatory pvp theory craft thread XD

So obviously we have alot of changes, and interesting traits imo to work with now.

Overall I think chrono has some nice potential to give a well rounded power build especially with the overall damage buffs on our weapon sets.

So let’s start crafting :p

Shatter Storm double F1 power mirage... Surely that's going to be nerfed at some point.

I can already see the whining.

@Curunen.8729 said:Shatter Storm double F1 power mirage... Surely that's going to be nerfed at some point.

I can already see the whining.

Oh definitely. Especially with imagined burden and staff, you could pump out a ridiculous amount of phantasms extremely quickly, on top of the regular clones you can produce. I can tell right now that something in that combination will need to be nerfed, even if just slightly.

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:Shatter Storm double F1 power mirage... Surely that's going to be nerfed at some point.

I can already see the whining.

I think they ought to replace that trait because I can't see any way giving mind wrack 2 ammo can be balanced.

But if they do keep it then it should also include a reduction in damage to mind wrack - just like how Imagined Burden reduces the damage of each individual Berserker by 25%, Shatter Storm should reduce mind wrack damage by 25% - so you get more consistent/frequent mind wracks, but they don't hit as hard.

I mean, if the ammo recharge time was long, say around 25 seconds, then it could maybe be balanced. It would allow you to choose to use MW more like normal, or burst it with 2 MWs, but then be without it for significantly longer than normal.

Yeah maybe the ammo recharge rate is really long or something - that could be ok. Though the stealth burst opener with double F1 will be crazy.

Condition Mirage died power will fill the void and it will be far more bursty with less chances to counter and people will be more or less okay with it because it not a condition build.

@OriOri.8724 said:I mean, if the ammo recharge time was long, say around 25 seconds, then it could maybe be balanced. It would allow you to choose to use MW more like normal, or burst it with 2 MWs, but then be without it for significantly longer than normal.

I feel like this is a more realistic option. One of the main balancing aspects for power Mesmer has been it’s downtime after bursting, which is especially apparent after burning past the power lock charges. Of course with mirage this just means that the Mesmer needs to disengage with sw ambush

@Genesis.5169 said:Condition Mirage died power will fill the void and it will be far more bursty with less chances to counter and people will be more or less okay with it because it not a condition build.

All we got were some duration nerds, the overall burst application is still there from the patch notes. That being said i haven’t had a proper chance to actually view the changes in game to a full extent.

@tartarus.1082 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:Condition Mirage died power will fill the void and it will be far more bursty with less chances to counter and people will be more or less okay with it because it not a condition build.

Duration nerfs + Dot damage nerfs while moving the dot damage to the confusion active damage while again reducing its duration giving your enemy less time to actually proc that confusion damage. Its a clever double nerf that people can't grasp yet.

I feel like using grieving amulet with illusions/mirage/x , axe/x and shatter storm.

Need to find some way to mitigate the glassiness but damn the burst output will be sick.

@Genesis.5169 said:

@tartarus.1082 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:Condition Mirage died power will fill the void and it will be far more bursty with less chances to counter and people will be more or less okay with it because it not a condition build.

Well this just means confusion is back closer to its original state, which imo was the healthier design for pvp. At the very least this will just emphasize hybrid damage, so the enemy can’t just stay inactive on a point.

Moreover, assuming the active damage is sufficient this will make mirage an exceptional +1. Especially with it’s mobility on sw ambush

The only build that is absolutely deleted is chronophantasma condi chrono due to its baseline mechanic for damage being removed.

@tartarus.1082 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:

@tartarus.1082 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:Condition Mirage died power will fill the void and it will be far more bursty with less chances to counter and people will be more or less okay with it because it not a condition build.

Your using a sword with a condition mirage.I disagree it will emphasize hybrid damage it's just gonna push power specs all the way up power mirage was already meta now it's the spec now, it already had to ability two 1 shot people and it just got buffed while condition just got heavy nerf i don't see how you see this is a push to hybrid over a push to pure power there's no benefit to specing condition for dot damage if you can outright remove some one's HP.

@Genesis.5169 said:

@tartarus.1082 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:

@tartarus.1082 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:Condition Mirage died power will fill the void and it will be far more bursty with less chances to counter and people will be more or less okay with it because it not a condition build.

Ummm yeah I used sword with condition mirage. Pretty much every Mesmer did, the build was based around jaunt and ineptitude condi output.

We also had daze from sword with sand of glass to get application. However the main benefit is the mobility the ambush provides.

If you actually thought sword was a bad pick in the last iteration. You might need to reassess how you were playing the spec.

I do think it’s top tier dueling was a bit overhyped. Mainly cause an exceptional ranger could handle most exceptional mirages.

@tartarus.1082 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:

@tartarus.1082 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:

@tartarus.1082 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:Condition Mirage died power will fill the void and it will be far more bursty with less chances to counter and people will be more or less okay with it because it not a condition build.

I dont think sword is a bad pick i think axe/scepter or staff is just superior either or you didn't attempt to refute the actual point of the comment so yeah thats all i got to say about that.

@Genesis.5169 said:

@tartarus.1082 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:

@tartarus.1082 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:

@tartarus.1082 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:Condition Mirage died power will fill the void and it will be far more bursty with less chances to counter and people will be more or less okay with it because it not a condition build.

If we’re looking exclusively at a dueling build of course. Regardless I do agree power is gonna be the new bandwagon after this patch, I just don’t think condi mirage is deleted.

Nerfed for sure but it kinda needed it.

No matter how I see it, they are pushing us back into bunker/support again?

@tartarus.1082 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:Condition Mirage died power will fill the void and it will be far more bursty with less chances to counter and people will be more or less okay with it because it not a condition build.

During nerf makes it much harder to get high stack confusion burst. Tried a bit in PvP area. It definitely gets nerfed hard.

@Curunen.8729 said:Yeah maybe the ammo recharge rate is really long or something - that could be ok. Though the stealth burst opener with double F1 will be crazy.

The ammo recharge is the same as MW's recharge, and even accounts for the CD reduction from illusions. 1sec time between using the charges. So you can get off a 3 illusion MW, then swap to staff and use phantasmal warlock (or zerker with imagined burden) and a clone skill and by the time you are done casting you have 3 more illusions for another MW.

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:Yeah maybe the ammo recharge rate is really long or something - that could be ok. Though the stealth burst opener with double F1 will be crazy.

...yeah that's absurd.

That should be a grandmaster trait with significant tradeoffs.

@Curunen.8729 said:I feel like using grieving amulet with illusions/mirage/x , axe/x and shatter storm.

Need to find some way to mitigate the glassiness but kitten the burst output will be sick.

Grieving is so much worse than berserker. You lose tons of crit chance and crit damage.

I mean, if you go bursty, you want target to go down immediately, not to give him a second chance to cleanse conditions and such.

@Exciton.8942 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:I feel like using grieving amulet with illusions/mirage/x , axe/x and shatter storm.

Need to find some way to mitigate the glassiness but kitten the burst output will be sick.

Yeah the limitations of pvp amulets... wish they brought jewels etc back for customisation.

Grieving is solid with axe though (better than zerker for axe) and with appropriate trait/skill/weapon/rune/sigil synergies mirage can have sufficient sustain when full glass for a slightly longer ttk than pure zerker.

Sure if I used GS then I'd use zerker, but I kind of don't enjoy GS anymore.

What's make me sad is that for spvp and wvw roaming i loved gameplay with staff and i don't like gs gameplay ... but i think we all will go back to power ...

@EUmad.7645 said:What's make me sad is that for spvp and wvw roaming i loved gameplay with staff and i don't like gs gameplay ... but i think we all will go back to power ...

Tbh though back when power builds were more common staff and gs was a pretty nice build due to the continued range pressure and kiting tools.

Now staff can easily output 3 clones and the phantasm inflicts vuln, so it looks like gs/staff will be a potential playstyle again

whats that power shatter build you guys talk about...may i see it?