The Pale Tree was not the first Sylvari Tree

One thing that I find really interesting:

In Guildwars 1, deep in the Canthan Eschovald Forest there was a powerful living Tree called Urgoz. Urgoz commanded an army of living bark/tree people called "The Wardens." Each warden clan was attributed to a season (e.g. summer, spring, etc.).

One of the elite raids in Guildwars 1 was to go deep into Urgoz's warren and defeat him due to him being corrupted. The corruption is assumed to be caused by the Jade Wind but may have also been caused by Urgoz simply following its original mission as a dragon Champion of Mordremoth.

Through Malyck in the Sylvari living story, we learn that there are other trees. Perhaps Urgoz still lives, lurking in Cantha as a potential Sylvari nemesis or ally. The relationship between Urgoz and the Wardens is much like the Sylvari and Pale Tree (although we know little about it).

Another interesting item is that the Kurzicks used some kind of power of the forest to sacrifice their devoted soldiers to transform them into mutated plant monstrosities known as Juggernauts. I am wondering if this power is actually Mordremoth dragon energy that they harvested by Urgoz and the wardens.

It would be neat to see this answered when we go back to Cantha. Also if the forest is still petrified or if Urgoz is, it would be interesting to see Canthan Sylvari based on petrified wood and stone (also means new customization options/looks for Sylvari players).

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Urgoz

I certainly see the similarities, but I think this is more due to ArenaNet using the same concept multiple time, than there being an actual connection.

First, and most importantly, is that we must keep in mind that not all plant-like beings are connected to Mordremoth. There's plenty not, such as the various treants (oakhearts, pinesouls, mosshearts, etc.), and the Echovald Forest was chalk full of these guys. And with the vast distance it's hard to argue Urgoz or these other plants, even the draconian Dragon Moss being related to Mordremoth.

Secondly, Urgoz was indeed twisted by the Jade Wind. We know this is the case because Kurzicks knew him before the Jade Wind and were friendly with both Urgoz and the wardens. On top of that, Urgoz is called a spirit, one that simply inhabits a tree. The way various dialogue and the Prima Guide lore makes it suggest that Urgoz is similar to Ameyalli, especially considering the dialogue with the Itzel Scout where the Commander equates Ameyalli to Maguuma and combine with this druid dialogue talking as if Maguuma has a mind of its own...

To quote the Prima Guide:

Urgoz, the ancient, tree-like spirit of the forest, was corrupted by Shiro's death wail two hundred years ago. As Shiro's residual influence slowly transformed the tree spirit, he became more hateful and twisted, and the creatures of the Echovald fell under his sway (especially wardens and the Dredge). Now Urgoz has declared war on the Kurzicks infecting "his" forest, and as luck would have it, he has chosen one of the most productive amber mines in the Echovald as his home base. The Kurzicks do not believe the tree spirit (now more demon than spirit) can truly be defeated-if it was, it could mean the end of the forest itself-but they desperately need to open access to the amber and keep Urgoiz's forces in check, or their entire economy will collapse. Only an elite group of heroes-heroes from the alliance that has the most faction with the Kurzicks-are worth sending.

(Above is on Urgoz's Warren, below is on Urgoz himself)

Urgoz has gone mad and will stop at nothing to eliminate the human interlopers on what he considers his territory. As the spiritual incarnation of the Echovald, he commands remarkable abilities as well as dozens (perhaps hundreds) of corrupted servants.

Point being, Urgoz is a spirit, not a tree. He just happens to possess a tree to fight; whereas the Pale Tree is the reverse - a tree that summons an spiritual avatar to communicate. All in all, lore paints Urgoz to be more akin to the Spirits of the Wild, Zhu Hanuku, Zintl, Ameyalli, and the spirits mentioned in the kodan origin myth, than to Mordremoth.

Regarding Malyck proving there's more trees out there - yes, there was an entire cave full of "pale tree seeds", which was known from the get go, and we even see some still-corrupted such trees in HoT (the Blighting Trees). All the same, there's a very big distance between Maguuma and Echovald.

As for the juggernauts, I see the similarities, but I'd say that's not like dragon corruption, as it seems that the juggernaut body is merely a vessel for the souls of those who become juggernauts, making them more akin to Shiro'ken, Exalted, and Forged than dragon minion. They do have the notable similarity to the Mordrem Guard Commanders' immortality though, as both juggernaut and MGC were "immortal" due to being reborn at their related tree (Eternal Tree for juggernaut, Blighting Tower tree for Mordrem Guard Commander). This, however, I'd chalk up to coincidence as for the three commanders, it's stated their minds are transferred through the Dream into a new body, but we get no such mental connection for juggernauts (and the Dream is something that, so far, has been restricted to the Maguuma area and is not part of Mordremoth's corruption/domain as shown by Malyck and the White Stag).

And, something missed so I'll tack it on, while there is an uncanny resemblance between the Greater and Guardian Serpents and mordrem spitfires, the serpents look like typical, but plant-like, wurms compared to other gw1 wurms, which would probably make them Jungle Wurms if seen in gw2. It is possible that the spitfires may be mordrem versions of jungle wurms; these wurm-like creatures would be the closest relation I really see between Urgoz and Mordremoth, in all honesty.

@lordhelmos.7623 said:One thing that I find really interesting:

Each warden clan was attributed to a season (e.g. summer, spring, etc.).

They are named to a much broader category like Warden of the Leaf/Branch/Earth/Winds and even more that do not appear in game according to lore. Its their hierarchy.

I like the wardens, it almost feels sad that we end up killing so many considering its their home being destroyed that is the reason why they hate humans.

I've toyed with this theory myself but overall I agree with Konig, much of it is just down to reused concepts.

If I recall some old Sylvari information they were originally designed to be flesh and bone elves.. and were later redesigned as plants and mixed into the Jungle Dragon lore.I don't think Anet upon first creating them actually planned to have them as Dragon minions from the release of the game.. I expect this was decided later as it simply worked.. much like all those fan theories eventually came to the same conclusion and turned out to be somewhat right in the end.

The problem with the Echovald Forest is that it's simply so far out of Mordremoths known reach that it doesn't make sense.Cantha is very far to the South.. across the ocean and then even further south again to reach the Echovald Forest, Mordremoths furthest reach as far as we've seen in the game was Ascalon and Timberline Falls.Fun fact too the Echovald Forest is actually the furthest southen point on the whole planet that we've been able to explore in the Guildwars Franchise.. and from what we know of the Elder Dragons they seem to be exclusively localized on the main continent of Tyria anyway, the only exception being the Sea Dragon whom we have no idea where it is or what it even looks like (I am feeling that it will make an appearance in game soon though and will possibly meet it's death in Cantha in the next expansion)

Mordremoth as far as we know is immobile in the traditional sense and unlike the other dragons cannot freely roam the world.. from what information and visual art is available of him I speculate that despite holding the title of Elder Dragon he does not share the form of a dragon but rather as the name of the first expansion states.. he himself is a single heart or seed that has grown and spread across Tyria like any other plant, and like any other plant is bound by certain limitations into how far it can grow.I just can't see Mordremoth having a physical connection to the Echovald forest when it is just so far away and he doesn't have influence in the Fire islands which are directly in the path to Cantha.If he could grow deep enough into the ground to tunnel under the ocean it would actually be easier for him to influence Arid and the Hownling Peninsula on the unexplored continent west of the Muguuma Jungle which is much closer than Cantha, though I highly doubt he ever did that.

As for Urgoz.. Well the in game lore on spirits is extremely convoluted in the Guildwars universe due to it's massive and diverse list of different spirit types I tend to speculate that pretty much anything has the potential to become a spirit for better or for worse.There are several variants of ghosts alone which are all classified as spirits, Druids, the many Spirits of the Wild.. then there are also varous Ritual based spirits in the lore too.There are so many different Spirits.. some created by magic.. some ascention.. some through death.. some simply exist without explanation.

Urgoz is defined as the Spirit of the Forest.. that could mean he is some kind of ancient Druid who was once human or at least mortal.. or it could literally mean he is the Spiritual form of the very forest itself which I think is how most see him.I think the Spirits of the Wild are one of the best sources to learn about regarding Spirits, everyone knows of Bear, Wolf, Raven and Snow Leopard.But did you know there are more and not all of them are animals?Owl we know was actually killed in conflict with Jormag but there are many other animal Spirits of the Wild as well as Spirits of natural force.. elements such as Fire, Water and Air have their own Spirits as does Light and Darkness.. then there are Spirits of the Mountain, River, Ocean, Forest etc.

What's interesting is that the Norn do not consider some of these Spirits of the Wild to be sentient.. and see them as mearly challenges to overcome.But Urgoz was in fact a sentient Spirit of the Forest so it would be very interesting to explore that from the perspective of a Norn in Guildwars 2.And what if Urgoz was still alive and somehow free from corruption.. That could have huge cultural significance to the Norn who would recognize him as a true Spirit of the Wild.