Newbie Thief Here

Learning how to play Thief and what to focus on in terms of stats and whatnot. Deadeye had me all psyched to finally play a Shadowslinger but I can see that's what everyone else is doing so I figured not to bother with P/P for now (though it is super fun). I love Rifle, and figured having melee coverage if I'm exposed or compromised while in Rifle was smarter than spamming Unload and hootin' n' hollerin' down yonder.

Here's the build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoaUnkFDNGjtFDOOB8PhFaCb7BMc2T8/yi5zULAMhiAA-jRCBABGt/QWKDC4QAwoSQsU6BwTAoS1fs4EAkn+gAAHAn38mfegzP/8zP/8m+8zP/8zP/8zP/8A-e

I'm clearly going for that quick burst/one-shot potential (and I only PvE for the record). Not a fan of Scholar on Thief, we're so squishy you either live or die no in-between and damage below 90% health is on par with Rage while Rage provides more solid damage no matter the circumstance (and helps provide permanent Fury uptime for Might stacks and bonus damage from Rage). Went with Deadly Arts cuz of Expose Weakness and Executioner primarily. Not a fan of placing so much emphasis on the Mark, I'd rather focus more on my overall damage than on a single skill that's going to give you away anyways (still love the skill, just not gonna hyper-importance it). I also placed emphasis on the Revealed buffs from both Revealed Training and Revealed Malice for in case I'm either Revealed (duh) or if I fail to kill my target with Death's Judgement. Either way the two synergize nicely together and I find Iron Sights to be redundant considering how squishy we are to begin with. D/P is, sadly, meta (I personally hate running anything 'meta' as most know) but with Deadly Arts it's just stupid to not run it.

Thoughts? Just looking for feedback/input. My primary concern is if I'm going to be 'too' squishy during end-game, but then again we're going to be stupid squishy no matter how much health you have as far as I see it. If D/P doesn't work out for me I'll probably flip the two instead.

Personally I would just go all out damage with the setup you are using and grab every piece of a multiplier I can get, especially if you're banking on ranged engagements more than brawl fights, so yeah, scholars... But that's just me.

I've gone for is the exact opposite of what you have. Instead of banking on the one-shots I've been experimenting with reliance on quickness uptime and life-regen from Invigorating Precision to keep myself alive, and I've forgone the rifle entirely as I am too busy hugging everything I am trying to kill.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQRAsa6an0MBFPh9OBOGDUGjFwCjfNOHvjbho1SvxLAEBaAA-jhSBQBYRpBe0OYSlg8b/h8pDwDPBgMqM7fqqcD1KAwJBIAwBA57v993AA-e

Quickness cuts down on mark time and gives me 200+ Power & Precision thanks to BQBK, and mark stacks more quickness, and since I have quickness mark-cast time is reduced, so the more trash I tag and kill, the more initiative and quickness I get, and the more I can keep the streak going. Once you gotta tackle something larger, burst with pistols till initiative's run out and might stacks are up, swap to sword and melee till you've got initiative again, rinse and repeat. Since your quickness can last for 25 seconds at a time, Mark will refresh before you run out of quickness, so you can re-cast mark and gain more quickness, and when that runs out you can cast Mercy and gain even MORE quickness! And if you're lucky you'll steal Quickness so you can get even MORE quickness!

Yeah it's a gimmick built around quickness that loses all momentum as soon as it's gone, but it's really fun.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vZUQNAqaUn0MB9OhFPBOGDUGjFYCjfZONzmaJgAwuxLNEHaDA-jRCBwA6U/BwjAAyZAYleAa7Pkw8nRlfp0EIRJIpAGVZE-e

This is mine. It's all about spamming steal skills for Initiative uptime and breaking out of stuns. It's served me well so far over the course of endgame in both expacs. I have pistols and rifle in weapon slots, but it can swap out weapons without issue. Not a one shot one kill build, but it's got staying power, which is important come endgame where squish can get you dotted down.

@TwiceDead.1963 said:Personally I would just go all out damage with the setup you are using and grab every piece of a multiplier I can get, especially if you're banking on ranged engagements more than brawl fights, so yeah, scholars... But that's just me.

I've gone for is the exact opposite of what you have. Instead of banking on the one-shots I've been experimenting with reliance on quickness uptime and life-regen from Invigorating Precision to keep myself alive, and I've forgone the rifle entirely as I am too busy hugging everything I am trying to kill.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQRAsa6an0MBFPh9OBOGDUGjFwCjfNOHvjbho1SvxLAEBaAA-jhSBQBYRpBe0OYSlg8b/h8pDwDPBgMqM7fqqcD1KAwJBIAwBA57v993AA-e

Quickness cuts down on mark time and gives me 200+ Power & Precision thanks to BQBK, and mark stacks more quickness, and since I have quickness mark-cast time is reduced, so the more trash I tag and kill, the more initiative and quickness I get, and the more I can keep the streak going. Once you gotta tackle something larger, burst with pistols till initiative's run out and might stacks are up, swap to sword and melee till you've got initiative again, rinse and repeat. Since your quickness can last for 25 seconds at a time, Mark will refresh before you run out of quickness, so you can re-cast mark and gain more quickness, and when that runs out you can cast Mercy and gain even MORE quickness! And if you're lucky you'll steal Quickness so you can get even MORE quickness!

Yeah it's a gimmick built around quickness that loses all momentum as soon as it's gone, but it's really fun.

How reliable is your Quickness uptime? I always thought Quickness Sigil was garbage, whenever I ran it everyone told me to drop it for Might or Air. Scholar I usually prefer on someone that has strong healing to best utilize that set bonus (such as Necro). The second I take a single flick or punch from anything I'm down to almost half health, and regaining that health is usually a chore (without full Malice stacks). Plus, doesn't Fury add to the 'Precision to Ferocity' conversion? Meaning wouldn't I get a burst of Ferocity when gaining Fury through the conversion? (I already get a burst but wouldn't I get a second one as well?) Not to mention, with Fury having a near permanent uptime, we're still gaining a 5% damage bonus. May not be 10%, but it's still pretty close. The only time Rage is worse than Scholar is when you're essentially at full health, outside of that you're doing practically the same damage while Rage is providing Fury (which, when Kneeling, causes our shots to have 100% Crit chance). I can get why Scholar is the best option for min/max DPS builds, but I've always hated that set effect.

Anyways, Quickness looks like it'd be fun to play around with. Turning Unload into essentially a mini machine gun sounds like a heck of a lot of fun. I've just always thought maintaining it on one's own was too difficult or resource consuming to make it worth it, but clearly you've proven me wrong there. I'll have to give this a try.

@Mercurias.1826 said:http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vZUQNAqaUn0MB9OhFPBOGDUGjFYCjfZONzmaJgAwuxLNEHaDA-jRCBwA6U/BwjAAyZAYleAa7Pkw8nRlfp0EIRJIpAGVZE-e

This is mine. It's all about spamming steal skills for Initiative uptime and breaking out of stuns. It's served me well so far over the course of endgame in both expacs. I have pistols and rifle in weapon slots, but it can swap out weapons without issue. Not a one shot one kill build, but it's got staying power, which is important come endgame where squish can get you dotted down.

Yeah spamming Mark/Steal is boring to me, I'd much rather utilize my weapons and Utilities but that's just me. I always thought going for the quick, fast, heavy kills was ideal for endgame since, like you said, we're dotted down extremely quickly and hard? Hence why I also hesitate to move my Scholar runes from my Necro to Thief; it seems like I'd only be utilizing the set effect when initializing a fight before losing it to some kind of Condi or ranged damage. Idk I've always just valued stats and synergy a lot more than a single effect. But yeah, stun-break I considered but doesn't Mercy give a stun-break? I was going to go dual Pistols but everyone and their family pet is running it right now and it feels dull and boring to 'copy' if you get my drift. Plus I figured having melee coverage should everything go south was smarter than the awesomeness that is Unload.

@Okami.7049 said:

@TwiceDead.1963 said:Personally I would just go all out damage with the setup

you

are using and grab every piece of a multiplier I can get, especially if you're banking on ranged engagements more than brawl fights, so yeah, scholars... But that's just me.

I've gone for is the exact opposite of what you have. Instead of banking on the one-shots I've been experimenting with reliance on quickness uptime and life-regen from Invigorating Precision to keep myself alive, and I've forgone the rifle entirely as I am too busy hugging everything I am trying to kill.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQRAsa6an0MBFPh9OBOGDUGjFwCjfNOHvjbho1SvxLAEBaAA-jhSBQBYRpBe0OYSlg8b/h8pDwDPBgMqM7fqqcD1KAwJBIAwBA57v993AA-e

Quickness cuts down on mark time and gives me 200+ Power & Precision thanks to BQBK, and mark stacks more quickness, and since I have quickness mark-cast time is reduced, so the more trash I tag and kill, the more initiative and quickness I get, and the more I can keep the streak going. Once you gotta tackle something larger, burst with pistols till initiative's run out and might stacks are up, swap to sword and melee till you've got initiative again, rinse and repeat. Since your quickness can last for 25 seconds at a time, Mark will refresh before you run out of quickness, so you can re-cast mark and gain more quickness, and when that runs out you can cast Mercy and gain even MORE quickness! And if you're lucky you'll steal Quickness so you can get even MORE quickness!

Yeah it's a gimmick built around quickness that loses all momentum as soon as it's gone, but it's really fun.

BQBK does not increase your ferocity if you've taken Practiced Tolerance (Precision to Ferocity conv). Fury in itself doesn't add any precision, so it doesn't add to Practiced Tolerance, but it does give you a flat 250 Ferocity increase as long as you're under the effect of fury and have No Quarter traited.

Yes you are right, your logic holds as long as you're expecting to get hit. However I was assuming you weren't expecting to get hit since you're running Rifle, and since the only worthwhile damage on rifle comes from Kneeling, you'd be quite a piece away from your targets. I can understand healing get's frustrating with your setup though, and there's nothing wrong with your setup, it's just not what I'd run. This is really just preference, run what you prefer.

On quickness uptime...Well it depends. Let's say we don't have the luxury of marking everything that moves on two legs... A boss monster scenario.

With all my quickness sources triggered, I have about 25 seconds of quickness. But after 20 seconds, you get a couple of options to increase that duration...

You can re-cast mark for another 5 seconds of quickness, making it 30 seconds.After 24 seconds, haste is off cooldown, add another 8 seconds... 38.After 30 seconds, rage sigil is off cooldown, add another 4, we're now at 42 seconds.Since Mark has a cooldown of 20 seconds, re-cast mark to get another 5 seconds. 47.At 48 seconds, Haste is off cooldown again, and so is Burst of Agility trait. That's another 16 seconds.And so on and so on...

This assumes you activate every quickness source as soon as you're able, but some of it you don't have manual control over, such as occasionally stealing more quickness, or Rage sigils failing to trigger, so give or take a couple of seconds.

In short, you can keep quickness up for a pretty goddamn long time... Meanwhile, I can rapidly auto-attack and regain health at a quite frankly wonderful rate thanks to quickness. Should I be in trouble, I've got pistol-whip evades to carry me through dangerous amounts of damage, and it'll heal me simultaneously, so all in all I can leap into a cluster of enemies and cause absolute chaos, and survive it while taking damage, due to the amount of damage I recover from through Invigorating Precision.

But I will say this. Your build has A LOT more damage per initiative spent, which means you have more utility and damage at your disposal. Quickness drains initiative like a hillbilly chugs home-brew in a town festival. While Mercy and Roll for Initiative reloads my stock to an extent, it all runs out very quickly which means there's a lot of auto-attacking. This is not so bad with swords, but with pistols? Yeah...

Basically you do A LOT more damage than I am capable of. If I take No Quarter, I can push my Critical Damage up to 225% about, while you'll be soaring in the 240-250's, not to mention the added power. You have so much raw power you don't need quickness, and without quickness you'll be just as fine, meanwhile if I lose quickness, my damage goes down the drain, as all my damage is based on attack-speed and not raw damage.

@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@Okami.7049 said:

@TwiceDead.1963 said:Personally I would just go all out damage with the setup

you

are using and grab every piece of a multiplier I can get, especially if you're banking on ranged engagements more than brawl fights, so yeah, scholars... But that's just me.

I've gone for is the exact opposite of what you have. Instead of banking on the one-shots I've been experimenting with reliance on quickness uptime and life-regen from Invigorating Precision to keep myself alive, and I've forgone the rifle entirely as I am too busy hugging everything I am trying to kill.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQRAsa6an0MBFPh9OBOGDUGjFwCjfNOHvjbho1SvxLAEBaAA-jhSBQBYRpBe0OYSlg8b/h8pDwDPBgMqM7fqqcD1KAwJBIAwBA57v993AA-e

Quickness cuts down on mark time and gives me 200+ Power & Precision thanks to BQBK, and mark stacks more quickness, and since I have quickness mark-cast time is reduced, so the more trash I tag and kill, the more initiative and quickness I get, and the more I can keep the streak going. Once you gotta tackle something larger, burst with pistols till initiative's run out and might stacks are up, swap to sword and melee till you've got initiative again, rinse and repeat. Since your quickness can last for 25 seconds at a time, Mark will refresh before you run out of quickness, so you can re-cast mark and gain more quickness, and when that runs out you can cast Mercy and gain even MORE quickness! And if you're lucky you'll steal Quickness so you can get even MORE quickness!

Yeah it's a gimmick built around quickness that loses all momentum as soon as it's gone, but it's really fun.

My apologies, I didn't mean to give the impression that I intend to get hit, I'm just taking into consideration ranged units being my only real weakness here and in those cases it's literally kill or be killed. Melees I have no issues with, they usually drop dead by the time they notice I'm there but ranged, one shot and I'm below that 90% health margin. I did build around Kneel tbh, when kneeling there is no way I won't crit (I'm at a perfect 100% with Fury) so Rifle 4 should do insane damage. You mentioned Quickness not being a big deal, would Maleficent Seven be a smarter route? And if so, would Pistol/Dagger be a smarter secondary set for keeping distance or getting out of dodge? My only concern with not running Pistol off-hand is, essentially, no BB Utility. Since Quickness, as you suggested, isn't really needed I should probably just go with raw Power I'm assuming to best utilize my Ferocity? Another note, if I don't run Dagger/Pistol then Deadly Arts isn't being optimally utilized and as such I'm thinking Trickery may be a better route to go? Like I said I'm an absolute noob with Thief, but I'm having so much more fun than I did over on Necro I just can't help but ask away lol (sorry if it gets annoying).

Maleficent Seven will let you get more use out of Rifles Death Judgement, and you'll get faster malice stacks for a general damage increase. It just depends on how long your targets generally live for. If they die within 3-4 seconds, there's no point in Maleficent Seven as you'll only get it's advantage on champions and elites, and you might as well swap it for BQBK until you are going to fight something big.

P/D would really make you struggle against groups of enemies or enemies with any sort of reflects, it's usually a condi-oriented weaponset so I am not sure how well it'd work for your power setup. D/P works really well for either engage or disengage, your problem will be cleave damage when you face mob groups more than 3. You're just gonna have to hope you kill quick.

Why do you think Deadly Arts isnt being optimally utilized if you don't use daggers? Are you thinking about Exposed Weakness (10%+ dmg when enemies have conditions)? All of thieves weapons have some sort of condition on auto-attack so that's a needless worry. Or are you thinking about Lotus Poison (Cause Weakness on Poison)? Well here you might be right, but Swords already inflict weakness in it's auto-attack chain, and your Mark will poison enemies.

You will be starved for Initiative without Trickery though, but if you're banking it all on Death's Judgement, you might as well run without. You'll only get to fire 2 Death's Judgements at full malice in a row with or without trickery.

@TwiceDead.1963 said:Maleficent Seven will let you get more use out of Rifles Death Judgement, and you'll get faster malice stacks for a general damage increase. It just depends on how long your targets generally live for. If they die within 3-4 seconds, there's no point in Maleficent Seven as you'll only get it's advantage on champions and elites, and you might as well swap it for BQBK until you are going to fight something big.

P/D would really make you struggle against groups of enemies or enemies with any sort of reflects, it's usually a condi-oriented weaponset so I am not sure how well it'd work for your power setup. D/P works really well for either engage or disengage, your problem will be cleave damage when you face mob groups more than 3. You're just gonna have to hope you kill quick.

Why do you think Deadly Arts isnt being optimally utilized if you don't use daggers? Are you thinking about Exposed Weakness (10%+ dmg when enemies have conditions)? All of thieves weapons have some sort of condition on auto-attack so that's a needless worry. Or are you thinking about Lotus Poison (Cause Weakness on Poison)? Well here you might be right, but Swords already inflict weakness in it's auto-attack chain, and your Mark will poison enemies.

You will be starved for Initiative without Trickery though, but if you're banking it all on Death's Judgement, you might as well run without. You'll only get to fire 2 Death's Judgements at full malice in a row with or without trickery.

Lotus Poison was my main reasoning, since Sword applies Weakness and Cripple I figured it'd be better to have Poison and Weakness from Dagger autos, on a faster attack chain. I'm honestly banking on Death's Judgement for that initial kill shot, but I always like to have a solid backup in case something goes hairy. Ranged units, like I said, seem to be my biggest threat hence why I was thinking P/D but I agree with your point about being exceptionally weak against reflects at that point. Kinda wish we had more off-hands to choose from besides the same two. I love Sword, but with Deadly Arts Dagger just makes too much sense. At that point I guess I'll have to stick with D/P, or go with Trickery. I don't want to lose Revealed Training though, synergizes well with Revealed Malice. Trickery also has Lead Attacks which grants a maximum damage increase of 15% (1% per Initiative spent) which is more than Exposed Weakness. Hence my dilemma here lol either Traitline works, question is would Thrill of the Crime and having additional Initiative be better or would playing off of Revealed with Revealed Training along with Mug be better? The more I think about it the more I'm thinking of going with Trickery, and might as well go with S/P. Breaks the Shadowslinger look I'm going for a little bit but with the right skin I can probably make the sword look even cooler with the concept. Plus Sword has better cleave and more mobility than Dagger, from what I've learned that is.