elementalist conjurer!!!! — Guild Wars 2 Forums

elementalist conjurer!!!!

Should Elementalist's Conjure Weapons be the same way as Engineering kit where they be re-equip at will, thoughts people? The problem for me is putting the weapon down in a target location means I have to watch it, ask people not pick up and make sure time doesn't run out. For me and some other Eles for though reason make the skill unviable for use and further more I am also confused on why the only trait for Conjure Weapons is in the fire tree and not the arcane tree. At the end of day it suck because Elementalist's Conjure Weapons are so much fun to and graphical in the movement and the actions.

Comments

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭

    Well, they can't be kits because the cooldowns are really high on the skills, but at the same time the way they are now is awful.

    There have been many suggestions for Conjures:

    1- A 30 sec weapon swap when conjuring. Let's say you have the Ice Bow slotted, when using it, you get 30s of weapon swapping to Ice Bow while still holding on the 4 attunements system.

    2- Ammo system

    These two are the ones that I have liked the most. What's left is hoping for ANet to rework them.

    Pull the strings. Watch them dance.

  • aceofbass.2163aceofbass.2163 Member ✭✭✭

    As much as I want conjures to be better, I don't want them to become a clone of a mechanic that defines another profession.

    There maybe other better ways to improve them.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aceofbass.2163 said:
    As much as I want conjures to be better, I don't want them to become a clone of a mechanic that defines another profession.

    There maybe other better ways to improve them.

    Many skill types get shared across classes and the recent one (gyros>wells) showed that it's possible even if it doesn't make perfect sense.

    I'd rather have skills that are generally useful and reliable than skills that are only viable in pve because of unnecessary cast times and interacts. Kits and conjures fit the same purpose anyway.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • Ganathar.4956Ganathar.4956 Member ✭✭✭

    Anyone suggesting for conjures to become kits has no idea what a disaster it will be for ele long-term. If they become kits then the devs will balance them around golem DPS, which will result in a huge amount of nerfs to ele weapons. This is all while ele needs buffs in competitive modes. Also, enjoy your rotations after getting kits. People think that weaver and core engi rotations are hard? Try combining both classes into one and I'll tell you how impossible it will be, and all that for the same damage as everyone else.

    Either another solution has to be found or conjures should be removed from the game and replaced with something else. They've done enough damage to the class even in their current implementation. You do not want them to become kits.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    somethimes i roleplay as a thief, and pick up the conjured weapons before the ele does..then i smile

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 29, 2019

    @melandru.3876 said:
    somethimes i roleplay as a thief, and pick up the conjured weapons before the ele does..then i smile

    The only class with which your allies can take control of your DPS LUL

    Pull the strings. Watch them dance.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It would be the quickest and least time to do it to make them usable sure.

    The better way would have them on 10 sec cd 0 cast time that are effected by elite spec such as weaver and tempest (longer cd or cd on swaps) making conjurer weapons acts more like an atument.

    But right now they are out right worthless so any thing will be welcomed.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • aceofbass.2163aceofbass.2163 Member ✭✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:

    @aceofbass.2163 said:
    As much as I want conjures to be better, I don't want them to become a clone of a mechanic that defines another profession.

    There maybe other better ways to improve them.

    Many skill types get shared across classes and the recent one (gyros>wells) showed that it's possible even if it doesn't make perfect sense.

    I'd rather have skills that are generally useful and reliable than skills that are only viable in pve because of unnecessary cast times and interacts. Kits and conjures fit the same purpose anyway.

    Yes skill types can be shared by professions but not profession specific mechanics like shroud for example. In that case, it's like giving another profession engineer's profession mechanic(kit swapping).

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 29, 2019

    @Ganathar.4956 said:
    Anyone suggesting for conjures to become kits has no idea what a disaster it will be for ele long-term. If they become kits then the devs will balance them around golem DPS, which will result in a huge amount of nerfs to ele weapons. This is all while ele needs buffs in competitive modes. Also, enjoy your rotations after getting kits. People think that weaver and core engi rotations are hard? Try combining both classes into one and I'll tell you how impossible it will be, and all that for the same damage as everyone else.

    Either another solution has to be found or conjures should be removed from the game and replaced with something else. They've done enough damage to the class even in their current implementation. You do not want them to become kits.

    Hammer and bow maybe, other weapons barely do any damage anyway. Besides, you dont use them in pvp modes for their damage, you use them for utility/mobility which does nothing on golems. Earth shield alone would be the best utility skill on ele if conjures get the kit treatment (or just become instant cast on <30 sec cooldown).

    @aceofbass.2163 said:
    Yes skill types can be shared by professions but not profession specific mechanics like shroud for example. In that case, it's like giving another profession engineer's profession mechanic(kit swapping).

    Kits arent profession specific mechanic though, it's toolbelt skills, which are there whether you have kits or not. No competitive pvp/wvw build on holo requires kits and there's also a competitive pve build without them.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Auburner.6945 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    somethimes i roleplay as a thief, and pick up the conjured weapons before the ele does..then i smile

    The only class with which your allies can take control of your DPS LUL

    sad but true, or trying to take my banner and i got a conjured weapon, or vice versa lol

    atleast that got fixed

  • Ganathar.4956Ganathar.4956 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 30, 2019

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Ganathar.4956 said:
    Anyone suggesting for conjures to become kits has no idea what a disaster it will be for ele long-term. If they become kits then the devs will balance them around golem DPS, which will result in a huge amount of nerfs to ele weapons. This is all while ele needs buffs in competitive modes. Also, enjoy your rotations after getting kits. People think that weaver and core engi rotations are hard? Try combining both classes into one and I'll tell you how impossible it will be, and all that for the same damage as everyone else.

    Either another solution has to be found or conjures should be removed from the game and replaced with something else. They've done enough damage to the class even in their current implementation. You do not want them to become kits.

    Hammer and bow maybe, other weapons barely do any damage anyway. Besides, you dont use them in pvp modes for their damage, you use them for utility/mobility which does nothing on golems. Earth shield alone would be the best utility skill on ele if conjures get the kit treatment (or just become instant cast on <30 sec cooldown).

    Your post does not address how needlessly convoluted ele rotations would become, and it definitely does not address the nerfing of ele weapons. You really believe that the main weapons of ele will be untouched if they make conjures into kits? There is no doubt in my mind that our weapons would be in for another round of nerfs. Then there are also the conjures themselves, which might also get nerfs for good measure. All this just for a sliver of hope that they will make earth shield a kit and not nerf its skills preemptively.

    Even if they didn't nerf earth shield, all you accomplished is you made eles who take earth shield a bit better in PvP, while trashing everything else about the class. If you want earth shield skills so badly, why don't you suggest they be distributed to our normal weapons? Our normal weapons are lacking in good skills and we have 20 weapon skills which is plenty of room. Engineers only have 5 weapon skills and that is why they get kits. I see no reason why those skills cannot be part of our core weapon skills, instead of being locked behind kits or conjures when we have so many bad skills.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ganathar.4956 said:
    Anyone suggesting for conjures to become kits has no idea what a disaster it will be for ele long-term. If they become kits then the devs will balance them around golem DPS, which will result in a huge amount of nerfs to ele weapons. This is all while ele needs buffs in competitive modes. Also, enjoy your rotations after getting kits. People think that weaver and core engi rotations are hard? Try combining both classes into one and I'll tell you how impossible it will be, and all that for the same damage as everyone else.

    Either another solution has to be found or conjures should be removed from the game and replaced with something else. They've done enough damage to the class even in their current implementation. You do not want them to become kits.

    Right they will take away ele support stab counter, stealth counter, boons counter, healing counter, blocks counter, there wepon swap, there high hp / armor, there support strong boons, there condi flip, there viable pets, there ability to used skills at any ranged regardless of there wepon chose, there ability to use more condi dmg then just 2 types, there ability to counter counters, all of there un-rootable leaps, there strong self boons, there not having to go all in to have viable builds builds, and worst of all they will lose all of there effects to other classes with out any thing to show.

    I know they will never lose there rose super tented faces shields glasses that something anet cant take from ele players.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • fire.5741fire.5741 Member

    I open a can of warms on this one. do agree with @Ganathar.4956 "I see no reason why those skills cannot be part of our core weapon skills, instead of being locked behind kits or conjures when we have so many bad skills" yeah if we could just add to core weapon skill I'm more then happy to throw bath water out on conjurer weapons

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ganathar.4956 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Ganathar.4956 said:
    Anyone suggesting for conjures to become kits has no idea what a disaster it will be for ele long-term. If they become kits then the devs will balance them around golem DPS, which will result in a huge amount of nerfs to ele weapons. This is all while ele needs buffs in competitive modes. Also, enjoy your rotations after getting kits. People think that weaver and core engi rotations are hard? Try combining both classes into one and I'll tell you how impossible it will be, and all that for the same damage as everyone else.

    Either another solution has to be found or conjures should be removed from the game and replaced with something else. They've done enough damage to the class even in their current implementation. You do not want them to become kits.

    Hammer and bow maybe, other weapons barely do any damage anyway. Besides, you dont use them in pvp modes for their damage, you use them for utility/mobility which does nothing on golems. Earth shield alone would be the best utility skill on ele if conjures get the kit treatment (or just become instant cast on <30 sec cooldown).

    Your post does not address how needlessly convoluted ele rotations would become, and it definitely does not address the nerfing of ele weapons. You really believe that the main weapons of ele will be untouched if they make conjures into kits? There is no doubt in my mind that our weapons would be in for another round of nerfs. Then there are also the conjures themselves, which might also get nerfs for good measure. All this just for a sliver of hope that they will make earth shield a kit and not nerf its skills preemptively.

    Even if they didn't nerf earth shield, all you accomplished is you made eles who take earth shield a bit better in PvP, while trashing everything else about the class. If you want earth shield skills so badly, why don't you suggest they be distributed to our normal weapons? Our normal weapons are lacking in good skills and we have 20 weapon skills which is plenty of room. Engineers only have 5 weapon skills and that is why they get kits. I see no reason why those skills cannot be part of our core weapon skills, instead of being locked behind kits or conjures when we have so many bad skills.

    From what I see, they can only nerf damage and cooldowns on specific skills to make them balanced compared to pve benchmarks (hammer 4, bow 2+3+4) and not promote spammability (fgs 3,4, maybe axe retreat and shield dash). I dont see how you got weapons in this equation since ele weapons arent strong to begin with, they've all been nerfed out of existence on every single core build. Lets not forget that holosmith basically added a weaponswap to core engi and the only nerf they received to kits was 6 second cooldown...

    And no, earth shield wont buff ones who use it now, it buffs everyone because it's the only weapon with mobility, 2 cc and defense that ele can access on one skill bar, which is required on every single pvp build (and surprise surprise, none of meta ele builds has half of those, while every other class does). The reason why it's bad now is its cast time, relying on picking it up and base cooldown of kit. The fact that you can use fgs 3 times (usually less) in a pvp match/raid fight says enough about strength of conjures.

    Lets not forget that making conjures into kits will 100% remove their stats, which is decent damage nerf to begin with.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • Ganathar.4956Ganathar.4956 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 30, 2019

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Ganathar.4956 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Ganathar.4956 said:
    Anyone suggesting for conjures to become kits has no idea what a disaster it will be for ele long-term. If they become kits then the devs will balance them around golem DPS, which will result in a huge amount of nerfs to ele weapons. This is all while ele needs buffs in competitive modes. Also, enjoy your rotations after getting kits. People think that weaver and core engi rotations are hard? Try combining both classes into one and I'll tell you how impossible it will be, and all that for the same damage as everyone else.

    Either another solution has to be found or conjures should be removed from the game and replaced with something else. They've done enough damage to the class even in their current implementation. You do not want them to become kits.

    Hammer and bow maybe, other weapons barely do any damage anyway. Besides, you dont use them in pvp modes for their damage, you use them for utility/mobility which does nothing on golems. Earth shield alone would be the best utility skill on ele if conjures get the kit treatment (or just become instant cast on <30 sec cooldown).

    Your post does not address how needlessly convoluted ele rotations would become, and it definitely does not address the nerfing of ele weapons. You really believe that the main weapons of ele will be untouched if they make conjures into kits? There is no doubt in my mind that our weapons would be in for another round of nerfs. Then there are also the conjures themselves, which might also get nerfs for good measure. All this just for a sliver of hope that they will make earth shield a kit and not nerf its skills preemptively.

    Even if they didn't nerf earth shield, all you accomplished is you made eles who take earth shield a bit better in PvP, while trashing everything else about the class. If you want earth shield skills so badly, why don't you suggest they be distributed to our normal weapons? Our normal weapons are lacking in good skills and we have 20 weapon skills which is plenty of room. Engineers only have 5 weapon skills and that is why they get kits. I see no reason why those skills cannot be part of our core weapon skills, instead of being locked behind kits or conjures when we have so many bad skills.

    From what I see, they can only nerf damage and cooldowns on specific skills to make them balanced compared to pve benchmarks (hammer 4, bow 2+3+4) and not promote spammability (fgs 3,4, maybe axe retreat and shield dash). I dont see how you got weapons in this equation since ele weapons arent strong to begin with, they've all been nerfed out of existence on every single core build. Lets not forget that holosmith basically added a weaponswap to core engi and the only nerf they received to kits was 6 second cooldown...

    And no, earth shield wont buff ones who use it now, it buffs everyone because it's the only weapon with mobility, 2 cc and defense that ele can access on one skill bar, which is required on every single pvp build (and surprise surprise, none of meta ele builds has half of those, while every other class does). The reason why it's bad now is its cast time, relying on picking it up and base cooldown of kit. The fact that you can use fgs 3 times (usually less) in a pvp match/raid fight says enough about strength of conjures.

    Lets not forget that making conjures into kits will 100% remove their stats, which is decent damage nerf to begin with.

    You can remove the cast time without making conjure earth shield a kit. It is simply not necessary. But again I do not believe that ele really needs more than its 20 weapon skills if it is balanced correctly. Conjured weapons are simply a redundant mechanic on the class that conceptually needs it the least in this game. You can just make ele weapons actually have good skills and you won't feel the need for conjure kits anymore. I also do not share your optimism about ele weapons being as nerfed as they can get. Anet has a knack for surprising you just when you thought that things could not get worse in regards to balancing. Take FA ele for example. It was nerfed about a year ago just because they felt like it. You had burst classes with the same burst, way higher mobility, survivability and team fight presence, and yet they nerfed FA. They will 100% guaranteed feel the need to nerf the effectiveness of conjures and maybe even our bad normal weapon skills as a trade-off.

  • Ganathar.4956Ganathar.4956 Member ✭✭✭

    @fire.5741 said:
    I open a can of warms on this one. do agree with @Ganathar.4956 "I see no reason why those skills cannot be part of our core weapon skills, instead of being locked behind kits or conjures when we have so many bad skills" yeah if we could just add to core weapon skill I'm more then happy to throw bath water out on conjurer weapons

    It would be nice if they improved our weapons sufficiently. Unfortunately they are slower than snails in this regard, if the dagger changes in the last patch are any indication. At least they seem to recognize that there is a problem, but they do not seem to realize how severe the problem really is. You'd think that they would have realized when so much time has passed since PoF launch and nothing has changed for this class.

    Either they have been working on some ele rework for all this time or a good elite spec for LW5, or we are doomed for the next 2 years.

  • fire.5741fire.5741 Member

    Thinking starting another forum for just complaint about ele

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 31, 2019

    @fire.5741 said:
    Thinking starting another forum for just complaint about ele

    That's sad, but true PepeHands

    Regarding the change, I want insta-casts to not get interrupted and to be able do dodge while popping them off, the damage will need some tweaks but so do the cooldowns.

    Pull the strings. Watch them dance.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    Conjure weapons are just bad. The best thing you could do to fix their problems is to just remove them altogether. Replace them by real weapons, and give elementalists weapon swap. Turning them into weapons would let us customize their stats, add sigils, and apply different wardrobe skins.

    Feel free to check this thread for a few other elementalist redesign ideas.

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