Teach me to Scourge like a boss

[Tinker.6924]

I've looked over snowcrows and metabattle and there actually is very little info on specific shade mechanics (at least the ones I have questions on) but to me they seem fairly important. They point out some stuff: don't cap on life force and sync your buff skills with Shroud 5, let your scepter autoattack cycle complete, but not much beyond that. Also, its seems like a melee-range style would be best with scourge since my character becomes a damage dealer on Shroud 2-5.

Obviously when it comes to maximizing Scourge dps its all about location, location, location of the shades but there are some things I am unsure of:

1. If I place multiple shades to overlap a single baddie, will that baddie take more damage, and get more cond stacks when I later use Shroud 2-5?
2. Are shroud skills accidentally cancellable? For example, with a regular ability if I cast it, but don't wait for it to finish and then cast something else, the first ability I cast is cancelled, goes on cd, becomes a complete waste of time as only the second ability fires off. Can the same thing happen to the Scourge Shroud skills 2-5? Or can I just rip through casting them as fast as possible without waiting for anything to finish? While Shroud 1 has a casting time, the others don't seem to have any casting time.
3. Will using Shroud 2-5 interrupt regular abilities? For example, I begin to cast 1 spell but before it's spell casting is finished I hit Shroud 2. Did shroud 2 just cancel the regular ability I was trying to use? I know from experience that I can be reviving an ally and trigger Shroud 2-5 without interfering with the reviving process so I'm inclined to think that the shroud 2-5 are simultaneously usable with other abilities.
4. Is it generally best to wait for 3 shades out before triggering Shroud 5 (Desert Shroud)? Or should I place just 2 and go Shroud 5? Or is 1 shade good enough? Usually I go on 1 or 2 and do: Shroud 2 (if I have conditions), Shroud 3, Shroud 4.
5. My scepter's autoattack seems to get cancelled by using the shroud skills. Even when my target isn't dead and I haven't changed targets, if I use shroud skills the autoattack will straight up stop. Not sure of the exact sequence that does it, but there is a definite pattern and my previous auto attack stops being auto until I use it directly again. Is there something specific I need to watch for or some game option I need to change to stop that?

Thanks in advance for answers or just awesome scourge pointers.

[Kaladel.1670]

@EmmetOtter.8542 said:

1. If I place multiple shades to overlap a single baddie, will that baddie take more damage, and get more cond stacks when I later use Shroud 2-5?

   The answer to that is, sadly, no. It was the case in the demo, but they quickly corrected it. One character (ally or enemy) can only be affected by one shade at a time (yourself included)For the rest, I let the other answer you.

[Asum.4960]

@EmmetOtter.8542 said:

1. If I place multiple shades to overlap a single baddie, will that baddie take more damage, and get more cond stacks when I later use Shroud 2-5?

No, that got removed fairly quickly. The only reason we stack Shades in one spot is to stack up the Minor Traits like Sand Sage, and there is usually very little reason to spread them out, especially since the uptime isn't very high and once the first Shade disappears, you want the next one to be on target too as well as having the Manifest Sand Shade hit the enemy ofc.

@EmmetOtter.8542 said:

2. Are shroud skills accidentally cancellable? For example, with a regular ability if I cast it, but don't wait for it to finish and then cast something else, the first ability I cast is cancelled, goes on cd, becomes a complete waste of time as only the second ability fires off. Can the same thing happen to the Scourge Shroud skills 2-5? Or can I just rip through casting them as fast as possible without waiting for anything to finish? While Shroud 1 has a casting time, the others don't seem to have any casting time.

Shade skills are instant cast, even though they have a delay before going off now, you can't cancel cast them in that time. The trick to prevent cancel casting on non instant cast abilities is to learn their hidden priorities and then be careful not to use another ability with a higher priority during the cast. For example heal skills have very high priority and will pretty much always cancel queued abilities, sending them on a few second CD for interruption.You don't want to spam all your Shade abilities at once regardless though, as Dhuumfire has an 1 second ICD in PvE, and 5 seconds in PvP. Space out Shade abilities accordingly.

@EmmetOtter.8542 said:

3. Will using Shroud 2-5 interrupt regular abilities? For example, I begin to cast 1 spell but before it's spell casting is finished I hit Shroud 2. Did shroud 2 just cancel the regular ability I was trying to use? I know from experience that I can be reviving an ally and trigger Shroud 2-5 without interfering with the reviving process so I'm inclined to think that the shroud 2-5 are simultaneously usable with other abilities.

No, Instant cast abilities don't interact with other actions in any way and can even be used while disabled.

@EmmetOtter.8542 said:

4. Is it generally best to wait for 3 shades out before triggering Shroud 5 (Desert Shroud)? Or should I place just 2 and go Shroud 5? Or is 1 shade good enough? Usually I go on 1 or 2 and do: Shroud 2 (if I have conditions), Shroud 3, Shroud 4.

That technically depends on your Condition duration, tied to Sand Sage, but usually you want to start DS with one Shade up, leading into the second Shade.Shade uptime will be at around only 1.5 Shades anyway if I remember correctly, so one Shade is fine.Spamming all 3 Shades out at once will reduce your overall Shade uptime, as well as decreasing your opportunities to utilize Sadistic Searing on Punishment CD.

@EmmetOtter.8542 said:

5. My scepter's autoattack seems to get cancelled by using the shroud skills. Even when my target isn't dead and I haven't changed targets, if I use shroud skills the autoattack will straight up stop. Not sure of the exact sequence that does it, but there is a definite pattern and my previous auto attack stops being auto until I use it directly again. Is there something specific I need to watch for or some game option I need to change to stop that?

I'm not entirely sure on that one as I generally spam AA frequently to prevent such issues of stopping AA's on various professions.It's a problem across the game, and I'm not aware of any solution to that other than manually refreshing the AA regularly.

@EmmetOtter.8542 said:Also, its seems like a melee-range style would be best with scourge since my character becomes a damage dealer on Shroud 2-5.

Scourge works perfectly fine on range, as your personal Shade Skill effect doesn't stack with the Shades, so technically, as long as a Shade is on Target, you are perfectly fine staying on range.The reason to stack in melee anyway (in group content anyway) is for boons and heals, if you are solo, it's just easier to keep targets in Shades that way.But Scourge works well as Kiter, for example at Sabetha, for the reason of essentially being able to do full DPS at range on static Targets, aside from lacking boons there.

[Tinker.6924]

@Asum.4960 said:

@"EmmetOtter.8542" said:

1. If I place multiple shades to overlap a single baddie, will that baddie take more damage, and get more cond stacks when I later use Shroud 2-5?

No, that got removed fairly quickly. The only reason we stack Shades in one spot is to stack up the Minor Traits like Sand Sage, and there is usually very little reason to spread them out, especially since the uptime isn't very high and once the first Shade disappears, you want the next one to be on target too.

Any chance that allies benefit from being "hit" by multiple shades? More Shields, Conds converted, etc...?

[Asum.4960]

@EmmetOtter.8542 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@EmmetOtter.8542 said:

1. If I place multiple shades to overlap a single baddie, will that baddie take more damage, and get more cond stacks when I later use Shroud 2-5?

No, that got removed fairly quickly. The only reason we stack Shades in one spot is to stack up the Minor Traits like Sand Sage, and there is usually very little reason to spread them out, especially since the uptime isn't very high and once the first Shade disappears, you want the next one to be on target too.

Any chance that allies benefit from being "hit" by multiple shades? More Shields, Conds converted, etc...?

No, you yourself plus a Shade simply increases the target cap.Aka, with Sand Savant having a Target Cap of 5, you plus your Shade can affect 10 Targets. Still, each can only be affected once. So even with just 2 Allies within your potential 10 Target reach each will only get affected once.Doesn't make a difference if they just stand next to you, next to you and in a Shade, or next to you and in 3 Shades.That goes for you, Allies as well as Enemies.

[Tinker.6924]

Awesome Info. Thanks

[Nimon.7840]

Pretty much on point, what Asum said.

Only thing I would change from snowcrows: don't keep your lifeforce low.And don't always spam f abilities.Even though you will be doing less dmg.

Keeping an heal skill barrier or f3- barrier for critical situation is most of the times more valuable. (For example use heal skill to block some dmg from donut attack from soulless horror. Esp at the beginning of the fight)Sad thing you might encounter: people telling you to do more dmg, but they won't notice, if you save their life's sometimes.

Also this won't let the DPS drop that hard. When you would be at 24k DPS, that's most of the times only 1-2k DPS loss.