LI > LD Removal - Updates? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home Fractals/Dungeons/Strike Missions/Raids

LI > LD Removal - Updates?

Hi,

You not so kindly removed my post in the other thread and gave me a warning. I think you are a bit over-zealous in your responses. It's akin to shutting down any dissenting opinion. Since that comment can no longer get a reply, I will post my question here.

What is the status of the change? When are you going to add the exchange back in? How long will it be available for? Thank you in advance.

Comments

  • Robles.7458Robles.7458 Member ✭✭
    edited June 17, 2019

    I think they will add them in a tuesday patch so if we don't have luck tomorrow then surely next week. But it would be great to have an answer on this and about the time we will have to exchange them.

  • Chelu.2095Chelu.2095 Member ✭✭

    A update to this would be wonderful.

  • Cristalyan.5728Cristalyan.5728 Member ✭✭✭

    @Roquen.5406 said:
    Hi,

    You not so kindly removed my post in the other thread and gave me a warning. I think you are a bit over-zealous in your responses. It's akin to shutting down any dissenting opinion. Since that comment can no longer get a reply, I will post my question here.

    What is the status of the change? When are you going to add the exchange back in? How long will it be available for? Thank you in advance.

    I don't want to be alarmist, but I'm afraid they will bring the exchange back in the moment they will bring back the exchange of Badge of Honor for Gift of Battle in WvW.

  • Robles.7458Robles.7458 Member ✭✭
    edited June 20, 2019

    @Cristalyan.5728 said:

    I don't want to be alarmist, but I'm afraid they will bring the exchange back in the moment they will bring back the exchange of Badge of Honor for Gift of Battle in WvW.

    It is not the same since for the gift of battle we were told that the exchange was going to be removed and not coming back. With the LI to LD the exchange was removed without telling anyone and now we have been told that it will come back temporarily.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 20, 2019

    They will probably want to wait it out as long as possible, and then suddenly enable it back for a very short time, so many people interested in it will miss it. Honestly, they clearly do not want (for some reason they haven't explained, but what is probably associated with low population of PoF wings) people exchanging LIs for LDs. If they didn't feel disabling it was really important, they would not think of going back on a clearly made promise (and if they forgot about the promise, they would have simply enabled it back, without the "temporarily" added in).
    As such, i doubt they would want to make it easy for us to make use of the exchange. That would go against the reason why they disabled it in the first place.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Robles.7458Robles.7458 Member ✭✭
    edited June 20, 2019

    We have to take into account that some people may have spent their LI in legendary armor. Therefore, if they add the exchange soon, people with only a few LI won't be able to farm many. Since, it seems that they think the less people use the exchange the better, I think they will add it soon. Maybe as a part of the 2 weeks of Dragon Bash.

  • Roquen.5406Roquen.5406 Member ✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    They will probably want to wait it out as long as possible, and then suddenly enable it back for a very short time, so many people interested in it will miss it. Honestly, they clearly do not want (for some reason they haven't explained, but what is probably associated with low population of PoF wings) people exchanging LIs for LDs. If they didn't feel disabling it was really important, they would not think of going back on a clearly made promise (and if they forgot about the promise, they would have simply enabled it back, without the "temporarily" added in).
    As such, i doubt they would want to make it easy for us to make use of the exchange. That would go against the reason why they disabled it in the first place.

    Unfortunately, this is what I believe too. I have no idea why they do this. As to me it seems to break faith with their playerbase...but someone somewhere decided this is the "right" thing to do. Which once again is weird to me, the only people that lost out this time are those that took Anet for their word. From this I personally gather that I can no longer trust what they say, since they can go back on it at any time without any notice.

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Dev already mentioned they will bring it back temporary. All you need to do is sit back relax and wait. :)
    Im sure you can do tht.

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
    Envoy's Herald, EAoA, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, Champion Magus, Champion Phantom, Wondrous Achiever etc.

  • Roquen.5406Roquen.5406 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 20, 2019

    @Talindra.4958 said:
    Dev already mentioned they will bring it back temporary. All you need to do is sit back relax and wait. :)
    Im sure you can do tht.

    The Dev said this:

    @Stephane Lo Presti.7258 said:
    After talking to the team, we want to make clear that we intended to communicate this change before the update so that the community is aware. Unfortunately this didn’t happen and we apologize for this miscommunication.

    The team is now looking into temporarily bringing back this conversion option via the vendor. This functionality will be brought back in a future planned build and we will tell you ahead of time when it will be removed.

    That is the part that is worrying people. It is very vague and could mean a year from now, at which point the conversion would be worthless. Once again, it's the lack of communication here that caused an issue in the first place. There was never any legitimate reason to remove the exchange. It also went against their statement that the exchange is not limited in time but quantity.

    There's a bigger issue here in that it sets a precedent for not trusting Anet.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Roquen.5406 said:
    There's a bigger issue here in that it sets a precedent for not trusting Anet.

    Yes. That is the most worrying part.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Wow, it sounds like that is such a major issue although it's not. =)

    Lack of communication? Yes, but nothing new if you have played the game since release. Even after the recent layoffs communication only became better punctually because they had to do this to not lose a big chunk of their player base.
    Veterans know about the situation: You get things in GW2 when they are done and implemented into the game. Fixes can take up to months till they are realized. Is it a problem? No, just if you make it one to yourself. As Talindra said: Relax and wait. It's a game not a job.

    At the moment players can earn 10 divinations per week so if somebody has 0 LD today he only needs 15 weeks of full clearing to get the 150 for Coalescence. Most of the raiders already swim in LDs anyways so I'm sure their metrics show that there is an issue to some people but not a one with a high priority.
    According to the past it's not useful to bump posts every day/week. It's done when it's done and you do yourself a favor --> Your own nerves and maybe your ability to post in the forums ("removed my post in the other thread and gave me a warning").

    The best is to come back in a month if things haven't changed and ask again politely.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Robles.7458Robles.7458 Member ✭✭
    edited June 21, 2019

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    At the moment players can earn 10 divinations per week so if somebody has 0 LD today he only needs 15 weeks of full clearing to get the 150 for Coalescence.

    Not all people can or want to get 10LD/week. Moreover, many people who are writing had enough LD with the exchange, so telling to farm more LD is like saying that all the work they did getting the LI for the ring does worth nothing. People deserve the exchange without being asked to farm more LD if they already had enough.

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    According to the past it's not useful to bump posts every day/week. It's done when it's done and you do yourself a favor

    I disagree with you. If people hadn’t posted in reddit/forum we wouldn’t have got anything. And now that we have got an answer, it is a matter of when we will have the exchange back. If people write here asking when, it shows to the developers that we are interested in this feature and that we are waiting. When the developers have to choose between bringing this back and solving another bug, because they can’t do all at the same time, they can give priority at something that many people are asking. What is more important? They have to make that choice every time they solve something. Therefore, it is not bad to show that we are interested in this so they don’t forget that we are here waiting.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Robles.7458 said:
    Not all people can or want to get 10LD/week. Moreover, many people who are writing had enough LD with the exchange, so telling to farm more LD is like saying that all the work they did getting the LI for the ring does worth nothing. People deserve the exchange without being asked to farm more LD if they already had enough.

    You don't need to be done in 15 weeks. They won't shut down the servers that fast.
    Also I disagree they deserve nothing. They had an option. Anet deleted this option due to reasons they haven't told us yet. Maybe they never will. Not a huge issue at all because we can still farm those 150 LD + they told us they will give the option back.

    I disagree with you. If people hadn’t posted in reddit/forum we wouldn’t have got anything. And now that we have got an answer, it is a matter of when we will have the exchange back. If people write here asking when, it shows to the developers that we are interested in this feature and that we are waiting. When the developers have to choose between bringing this back and solving another bug, because they can’t do all at the same time, they can give priority at something that many people are asking. What is more important? They have to make that choice every time they solve something. Therefore, it is not bad to show that we are interested in this so they don’t forget that we are here waiting.

    Wrong train of thought. It's ok to make a post and get people together - totally fine. But they already answered and adressed that they'll work on a fix/change. Daily bumping is just ridiculous for such a minor thing. And not managing to exchange LI --> LD definitely is a minor issue compared to bugs. So, it's more than just my hope that this little problem doesn't have a higher priority over bugfixing since players are not excluded from anything.
    I can feel with you, you cannot brag with your new ring (probably together with Vision + Aurora) at the moment. What a pity. ^^

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Robles.7458Robles.7458 Member ✭✭
    edited June 21, 2019

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    And not managing to exchange LI --> LD definitely is a minor issue compared to bugs.

    For many this is not a minor bug, that’s why posts are happening daily. When LI exchange was removed Anet developers lost all the trust many of us had in them (maybe due to a mistake, but it happened, nevertheless) and the only way to repair it is to bring the exchange back. You are asking people to trust in some words about a future update so people stop writing. And I think we all want to trust, but right now, it's not easy, not when we have seen what happens to words.

  • Roquen.5406Roquen.5406 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 22, 2019

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    You don't need to be done in 15 weeks. They won't shut down the servers that fast.
    Also I disagree they deserve nothing. They had an option. Anet deleted this option due to reasons they haven't told us yet. Maybe they never will. Not a huge issue at all because we can still farm those 150 LD + they told us they will give the option back.

    Wrong train of thought. It's ok to make a post and get people together - totally fine. But they already answered and adressed that they'll work on a fix/change. Daily bumping is just ridiculous for such a minor thing. And not managing to exchange LI --> LD definitely is a minor issue compared to bugs. So, it's more than just my hope that this little problem doesn't have a higher priority over bugfixing since players are not excluded from anything.
    I can feel with you, you cannot brag with your new ring (probably together with Vision + Aurora) at the moment. What a pity. ^^

    See I don't understand your viewpoint. This is such a simple fix. They already had the code in there...they went ahead and "removed" it. Which unless I'm mistaken could mean that they just made the line of code inactive, rather than actually deleting it. They also have the reverse code in there currently LD > LI. Also, since this was a recent change the person(s) that worked on it still have it fresh in their mind, making it even easier to go back and adjust. In the grand scheme of things this is such a simple fix, the only thing they need to be careful with is that they don't mess things up when putting it back in. That's where the testing would come in. You act as if this is a huge undertaking...

    We've already waited what, a year now since the precursor was first introduced. Now for some odd reason those that trusted Anet's word, have to wait almost another 4 months just because they decided for some unknown reason to pull it? That makes no sense.

    And I personally don't want Coalescence to "Show Off", I want it for the stat swap and because I like how it looks. Me having it now after waiting this long does not take away from you at all, so not sure why you are opposed.

  • Chelu.2095Chelu.2095 Member ✭✭

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    Wow, it sounds like that is such a major issue although it's not. =)

    Lack of communication? Yes, but nothing new if you have played the game since release.

    Are you defending something like that? It is not a minior thing if YOU dont care about it. This is something that effect the enjoyment of people who love this game and it should get adressed with every communication possible.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 23, 2019

    @Robles.7458 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    And not managing to exchange LI --> LD definitely is a minor issue compared to bugs.

    For many this is not a minor bug, that’s why posts are happening daily. When LI exchange was removed Anet developers lost all the trust many of us had in them (maybe due to a mistake, but it happened, nevertheless) and the only way to repair it is to bring the exchange back. You are asking people to trust in some words about a future update so people stop writing. And I think we all want to trust, but right now, it's not easy, not when we have seen what happens to words.

    I don't have trust in Anet. I just know from the past how things are evolving here in this game. There's no need to panic about an online item. See, it definitely is a minor bug because we are talking about a trinket of which you had the right one before due to already raiding. The leggy thingy only gives you the stat swapping advantage and the shiny outfit.
    The fact that you are barking so loud is obvious: You cannot show the shiny to others and some of those were more clever and/or diligent than you. And I repeat myself, they addressed it. A fix/change will come soon so they will take care and according to the statement it's not that you have to wait for months, maybe just weeks. That's totally fine.

    @Chelu.2095 said:
    Are you defending something like that? It is not a minior thing if YOU dont care about it. This is something that effect the enjoyment of people who love this game and it should get adressed with every communication possible.

    I defended Anet rarely but complained about a lot in the past. Here in this forum and in the german one.
    This here is different. If you read the passage above maybe you'll understand, maybe you won't. Having real bugs in the game is a major issue. Not being able to craft a leggy thing due to an event bugging out is a major issue. Having server crashes is a major issue. Not having the currency to craft an item while you can (easily - depending on your skill) farm it via playing but cannot exchange from another one IS NOT a major issue. Is it ok that they reverted the change? No, not at all. Is it a problem? No, not at all either because you can go ahead and play this game + still succeed or you just wait for the fix/chang which will come soon. Really no reason to rant or in case of the OP get a warning via forum mods. ^^

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • just ignore that guys who keep saying remove LI>LD is not a fault. Keep warning to anet and let them return it quickly. It's anet responsibility to return it. They should notice to everyone if they want to remove it. And now they don't did it. I don't care what another people say. Just know it if they don't return it, i will quit this kitten game. I will wait until dragon bash patch, just don't want to play the game which will deceive players and failure to keep promises.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 23, 2019

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    Having real bugs in the game is a major issue. Not being able to craft a leggy thing due to an event bugging out is a major issue. Having server crashes is a major issue. Not having the currency to craft an item while you can (easily - depending on your skill) farm it via playing but cannot exchange from another one IS NOT a major issue.

    True. On the other hand, devs breaking trust without any sensible explanation is also a major issue. It was not something critical to the game (or at least i don't think so - and if it was, they certainly didn't say so), something they just had to change. And it was something they promised to not do before. So, the devs apparently thought that it was worth sacrificing trust with the player community for something relatively trivial. And when they got called on it, they are unwilling to fully revert the change.
    That is anything but minor.

    Compared to that, the exchange itself is trivial.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 23, 2019

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    Having real bugs in the game is a major issue. Not being able to craft a leggy thing due to an event bugging out is a major issue. Having server crashes is a major issue. Not having the currency to craft an item while you can (easily - depending on your skill) farm it via playing but cannot exchange from another one IS NOT a major issue.

    True. On the other hand, devs breaking trust without any sensible explanation is also a major issue. It was not something critical to the game (or at least i don't think so - and if it was, they certainly didn't say so), something they just had to change. And it was something they promised to not do before. So, the devs apparently thought that it was worth sacrificing trust with the player community for something relatively trivial. And when they got called on it, they are unwilling to fully revert the change.
    That is anything but minor.

    Compared to that, the exchange itself is trivial.

    Given that the exchange was hilariously generous:

    the ability to exchange 168+ LI into LD for simply killing 1 boss before the change date was way over the top. Yes, that was the true maximum a player could have gained in LD up to that point in time. The chance is high of players at that cap (who are the only ones who should complain) to have continued raiding for a while and would be close to the required LD or way above it (I myself was not very active when the exchange was added, and am at over 200 LD without exchanging more than 3 LI).

    Here is the very sad reality:
    The vast majority of players who want the exchange so badly are stocked up on easy LI and have been inactive on wings 5+6 for a vast majority of the time since LD were introduced and have likely at most cleared a few bosses a couple of times at best (knowing they could simply exchange LI into LD if required, but not clearing any content which provided LD). Those same players are now complaining because they would rather get the required LD with exchanging their easy gained LI into LD instead of actually clearing the content required a certain amount of times (because If you were clearing this content, you'd be rich on LD given how the maximum LDs is at 454, which is over 250 LD beyond the exchanged amount).

    Now I do agree that it is a breach of trust to go back on a word given, and I have said so in this thread. I absolutely disagree with this action.

    Yet, I have to wonder how many of these so vocal players here simply fear that they might actually have to play the required content because they can't skip it thanks to an overgenerous exchange.

  • Robles.7458Robles.7458 Member ✭✭
    edited June 23, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Yet, I have to wonder how many of these so vocal players here simply fear that they might actually have to play the required content because they can't skip it thanks to an overgenerous exchange.

    Problem is that we have been 2 years waiting for the ring. In the last 8 months of these 2 years LD appeared and players who were farming had the possibility to choose what to do, w1-4 or w5-6. The option of w1-w4 was better, LI were more useful, you could get more faster and you could exchange them, so many players farmed those wings for months.

    Players could choose how to farm for the ring, they had freedom in that and they were 8 months farming. Now the exchange is removed but players have already been at least 8 months (maybe even more, since we have been 2 years with the ring) faming LI thinking that it was the same than a LD because they were told that.

    Now people say that players don’t want to farm w5-w7 and why should they farm it now? They were farming their LI for at least 8 months because they were told that the exchange would be a possibility. Nobody is asking for a free legendary ring (we all have to do w5-7), but it is not players fault if they are given different options to farm the ring.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 23, 2019

    @Robles.7458 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Yet, I have to wonder how many of these so vocal players here simply fear that they might actually have to play the required content because they can't skip it thanks to an overgenerous exchange.

    Problem is that we have been 2 years waiting for the ring. In the last 8 months of these 2 years LD appeared and players who were farming had the possibility to choose what to do, w1-4 or w5-6. The option of w1-w4 was better, LI were more useful, you could get more faster and you could exchange them, so many players farmed those wings for months.

    So you skipped 2 years of wing 5+6. Wasn't that what I just said? So you actually did NOT play the content required to have the materials for the ring banking on the ability to exchange LI into LD from W1-4.

    @Robles.7458 said:
    Players could choose how to farm for the ring, they had freedom in that and they were 8 months farming. Now the exchange is removed but players have already been at least 8 months (maybe even more, since we have been 2 years with the ring) faming LI thinking that it was the same than a LD because they were told that.

    Most players who have the 150+ LD for the ring and who did not exchange, did the content required. Most player who exchanged and did the content required are sitting on 350-450 LD.

    The only players who have a right to complain are raiders who did a lot of raiding of wing 5, completely quit shortly after LD were introduced without exchanging their LI and are now back. I'd wager the actual amount of these players is insignificantly small.

    @Robles.7458 said:
    Now people say that players don’t want to farm w5-w7 and why should they farm it now? They were farming their LI for at least 8 months because they were told that the exchange would be a possibility. Nobody is asking for a free legendary ring (we all have to do w5-7), but it is not players fault if they are given different options to farm the ring.

    You were not intended to farm LI. The ring is a reward for wing 5-7. The exchange of LI into LD was only to compensate players who were doing wing 5 for 1 year and had a theoretical maximum of 172 LI which could have been LD. If you farmed LI but refused to exchange them hoping you don't have to do wing 5-7, you have almost no ground to stand on to complain besides the fact that Anet went back on their word. You did NOT do the content required.

    To then get this worked up over not getting rewards which you should not be entitled to in the first place is embarassing.

  • Robles.7458Robles.7458 Member ✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    So you skipped 2 years of wing 5+6. Wasn't that what I just said? So you actually did NOT play the cotnent required to have the materials for the ring banking on the ability to exchange LI into LD from W1-4.

    First the ring is a reward for W5-W7 and you know what? We have been more time with bosses giving LI in w5-w8 that we have been with LD ( more than 1 year giving each week LI). So, are you telling me that I skipped 2 years of w5 cleaning? When I was 1 year getting LI in that wing,xD.

    You were not intended to farm LI. The ring is a reward for wing 5-7. The exchange of LI into LD was only to compensate players who were doing wing 5 for 1 year and had a theoretical maximum of 172 LI which could have been LD. If you farmed LI but refused to exchange them hoping you don't have to do wing 5-7, you have almost no ground to stand on to complain besides the fact that Anet went back on their word. You did NOT do the content required.
    To then get this worked up over not getting rewards which you should not be entitled to in the first place is embarassing.

    Ohh but there is a problem here. I had spent my 750LI in 3 legendary sets, so I needed to farm more for the ring. I didn't have my w5 LI of 1 year farming it (all spent). So I had to farm LI or LD again. Remember that a developer told us that you could spend your LI and then after farming more LI use the exchange in some months.

    It is not players fault if this was done incorrectly. And second, when the exchange was introduced with the rules we were told, we were supposed to farm the ring as we wanted because we are free and we were given 2 options that you can like or not.

    You can say that you don't like how I farmed the ring, but did I farm for it? Yes. Was I told that my LI farm was the same than a LD farm? Yes. It is my fault for choosing how to farm it when I am given freedom? No. Do you like how the exchange was done? No. Then your problem is with the developers, not with the people as me who trusted in which we were told and farmed according with that.

    Players didn't add LD 1 year later, players didn't add the exchange and didn't break the word given, so I can't really understand how you can have a problem with the people who used their freedom to farm the ring.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Robles.7458 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    So you skipped 2 years of wing 5+6. Wasn't that what I just said? So you actually did NOT play the cotnent required to have the materials for the ring banking on the ability to exchange LI into LD from W1-4.

    First the ring is a reward for W5-W7 and you know what? We have been more time with bosses giving LI in w5-w8 that we have been with LD ( more than 1 year giving each week LI). So, are you telling me that I skipped 2 years of w5 cleaning? When I was 1 year getting LI in that wing,xD.

    Untrue, the maximum amount of LD available when LD were introduced was 172 (hence the maximum exchange). The current maximum is now 454, do the math.

    No, in your case I'm quite sure you did some wing 5 kills, then stuck to wing 1-4 and didn't bother with wing 5+6 at all or at most for one time clears. How close am I?

    You were not intended to farm LI. The ring is a reward for wing 5-7. The exchange of LI into LD was only to compensate players who were doing wing 5 for 1 year and had a theoretical maximum of 172 LI which could have been LD. If you farmed LI but refused to exchange them hoping you don't have to do wing 5-7, you have almost no ground to stand on to complain besides the fact that Anet went back on their word. You did NOT do the content required.
    To then get this worked up over not getting rewards which you should not be entitled to in the first place is embarassing.

    Ohh but there is a problem here. I had spent my 750LI in 3 legendary sets, so I needed to farm more for the ring. I didn't have my w5 LI of 1 year farming it (all spent). So I had to farm LI or LD again. Remember that a developer told us that you could spend your LI and then after farming more LI use the exchange in some months.

    It is not players fault if this was done incorrectly. And second, when the exchange was introduced with the rules we were told, we were supposed to farm the ring as we wanted because we are free and we were given 2 options that you can like or not.

    None of this changes the fact that you are banking on a system which was likely introduced for players who had way more clears than you on content and which was over generous implemented.

    You can say that you don't like how I farmed the ring, but did I farm for it? Yes. Was I told that my LI farm was the same than a LD farm? Yes. It is my fault for choosing how to farm it when I am given freedom? No. Do you like how the exchange was done? No. Then your problem is with the developers, not with the people as me who trusted in which we were told and farmed according with that.

    Players didn't add LD 1 year later, players didn't add the exchange and didn't break the word given, so I can't really understand how you can have a problem with the people who used their freedom to farm the ring.

    I already said I disagree with Arenanet going back on their word.

    In your case I simply dislike the over the top complaining for not being able to use a feature which allowed you to literally skip the intended content. You complain as though you actually had a right to the ring based on appropriate content cleared, when all you were robbed of was a method to circumvent this content.

  • Robles.7458Robles.7458 Member ✭✭
    edited June 23, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    Untrue, the maximum amount of LD available when LD were introduced was 172 (hence the maximum exchange). The current maximum is now 454, do the math.

    I told you that we have been getting LI instead of LD for more time. And that is true. I will do the math for you since you don't believe it.

    168LI/4=42 weeks doing w5. (If people cleared on monday it would be 43 weeks with172LI, if they waited until the patch then only 42 weeks with 168LI and the exchange was only for 168LI).

    (454-168)=286 LD have been farmed

    286-6=280 LD( 6 were from w7 in this 2 weeks)

    280LD/7=40 weeks ( farming w5 and w6 and people getting LD).

    Therefore, 42 or 43 weeks farming and getting only LI vs 40 weeks of farming and getting LD.

    Regarding your other points, I think I have explained myself well enough. So if you still don't understand where is the problem, then I think I can't help you and nothing will make you understand my point of view.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 23, 2019

    @Robles.7458 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    Untrue, the maximum amount of LD available when LD were introduced was 172 (hence the maximum exchange). The current maximum is now 454, do the math.

    I told you that we have been getting LI instead of LD for more time. And that is true. I will do the math for you since you don't believe it.

    168LI/4=42 weeks doing w5. (If people cleared on monday it would be 43 weeks with172LI, if they waited until the patch then only 42 weeks with 168LI and the exchange was only for 168LI).

    (454-168)=286 LD have been farmed

    286-6=280 LD( 6 were from w7 in this 2 weeks)

    280LD/7=40 weeks ( farming w5 and w6 and people getting LD).

    Therefore, 42 or 43 weeks farming and getting only LI vs 40 weeks of farming and getting LD.

    Regarding your other points, I think I have explained myself well enough. So if you still don't understand where is the problem, then I think I can't help you and nothing will make you understand my point of view.

    I was going by total available LD, also your math assumes Dhuum kills from week 1. That's a very unrealistic assumption. Any person interested was more than capable to acquire the required LD via the content it was meant to be gained from.

    Which brings up my point from earlier: the exchangeable amount was based on a value which 99% of the elegible player base did not even achieve, not even close. If we assume even any clears of any boss of wing 5 in the first few weeks for many player, given how Desmina is a difficult boss for many.

    So once again, it is more than understandable that people are unsatisfied, but at least have the common decendy and dignity to roll back your complaining since you are directly taking advantage of a skip for this content. While making it seem as though you had actually completed the required amount of content.

  • Robles.7458Robles.7458 Member ✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    So once again, it is more than understandable that people are unsatisfied, but at least have the common decendy and dignity to roll back your complaining since you are directly taking advantage of a skip for this content. While making it seem as though you had actually completed the required amount of content.

    No. If you think what I did was wrong I can only say you that we will have to agree to disagree.

  • Roquen.5406Roquen.5406 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 23, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954

    I can't fathom your opinion here. You are blaming the playerbase for an issue that Anet created. You are actually telling people that they are trying to game the system and that they have no right to be upset, which is beyond ridiculous at this point.

    Let's take me for example. I raided with my guildies for wings 1-5, since raids were initially released. At some point life got busy AND I was getting a bit burned out from GW2, so I stopped raiding regularly with my static. I would still help out time to time if I was on and they needed an extra slot. So my playtime dwindled. When W6 released, I still cleared it along with W5. Just not every week. W7 I haven't done much but I have cleared the first two bosses.

    Back to the conversion. I saw that Anet introduced LD and with it the conversion of LI > LD. They made it clear this was an exchange limited in quantity and not time. There was also no use for LD at the time. With that information, I was going to wait for it to have a use because I trusted what Anet said. Now going by what you said, I may not have the perfect amount because I did not clear Dhuum the first week but I do believe I cleared it in the first month. Other bosses were cleared before that. So maybe I would truly be able to convert -140? Because I didn't full clear every week but enough.

    So, patch hits that lets us finish Coalescence and suddenly I find the exchange is removed, a reverse exchange has been put up...and neither made it into the patch notes. Only after posts hit reddit and the forums did Anet pipe up. And their response is pretty much a lie.

    You are going to tell me in a patch that releases a legendary that finally requires use of LD, you go ahead and remove the conversion that you stated would never get removed. You add in a reverse conversion because there really is no use for LD other than that ring. You forget to tell the playerbase about it beforehand, you forget to put it in the patch notes, and you forget to say anything after the patch and you state, "it wasn't intentional to not communicate?". I'm sorry how many lies are they going to double down on? They clearly didn't want players to have the ring on day 1 and so they removed it to extend the content by an arbitrary X amount of time. But the thing is this ONLY punishes the players that trusted Anet. Those that didn't listen to them and converted right away, didn't lose out...only those that once again listened to Anet.

    And that is the issue right there. Anet set expectations based on information they gave, they patched in LD, an item that literally only has use for one item that players have been waiting for, they gave an exchange for this item because it didn't make the original release date they wanted, they then ripped that away without thought or word.

    And their response after the fact just says, at a planned future release. That could literally be a year from now. Their entire handling of this situation is terrible, and they've made similar mistakes before yet they don't seem to learn. And why you defend them is beyond me. This sets a terrible precedent.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 23, 2019

    @Roquen.5406 said:
    @Cyninja.2954

    I can't fathom your opinion here. You are blaming the playerbase for an issue that Anet created. You are actually telling people that they are trying to game the system and that they have no right to be upset, which is beyond ridiculous at this point.

    I am not blaming any one for being upset. I am annoyed by the blantant over exageration present, especially from player who did not do the 150 LD boss kills who just want to bypass the system when the ring is clearly a reward for wing 5-7. No one even cares about players who are not elegible for the exchange (which is imo way to generous with only requiring 1 kill pre implementation, which was even communicated making sure as many people as possible would get it). Then again, I found the total amount for conversion allowed to be way to high in the first place (or allowing for the exchange at all back when it was introduced).

    @Roquen.5406 said:
    Let's take me for example. I raided with my guildies for wings 1-5, since raids were initially released. At some point life got busy AND I was getting a bit burned out from GW2, so I stopped raiding regularly with my static. I would still help out time to time if I was on and they needed an extra slot. So my playtime dwindled. When W6 released, I still cleared it along with W5. Just not every week. W7 I haven't done much but I have cleared the first two bosses.

    Since wing 6 was introduced, a total of 280 LD were available from wing 5+6 over 40 weeks. Even if you occasionally did raids, you would be close to 100 LD from just doing the easy fights or raiding every 2-3 weeks. What you are essentially saying is: you did a lot of wing 5 before wing 6 was added. You did wing 6 for the clears and maybe the achievements and you cleared the first 2 bosses in wing 7, which hardcore raiders had full cleared in 6 hours.

    Fair enough, now how many players do you think are actually in the same boat? My guess is way less than the way bigger group which: does w1-4 full clears weekly (which are beyond farm easy by now), did 1-2 wing 5+6 clears and now did wing 7. Which again is fine, but at least then have the common courtesy to let Arenanet sort this out because all of these players get to skip this content due to a conversion which allows for this. That's not even getting into people who bought the difficult kills from raid sellers not even have to master the content.

    @Roquen.5406 said:
    Back to the conversion. I saw that Anet introduced LD and with it the conversion of LI > LD. They made it clear this was an exchange limited in quantity and not time. There was also no use for LD at the time. With that information, I was going to wait for it to have a use because I trusted what Anet said. Now going by what you said, I may not have the perfect amount because I did not clear Dhuum the first week but I do believe I cleared it in the first month. Other bosses were cleared before that. So maybe I would truly be able to convert -140? Because I didn't full clear every week but enough.

    So, patch hits that lets us finish Coalescence and suddenly I find the exchange is removed, a reverse exchange has been put up...and neither made it into the patch notes. Only after posts hit reddit and the forums did Anet pipe up. And their response is pretty much a lie.

    Yes, and I did mention that you are among the only group of players who I believe get to complain (similar to myself, though I did keep raiding and never needed the exchange). Not everyone complaining here did their "share" of wing 5 or 6 boss kills. Which is fine, after all the exchange existed (and directly reduced the incentive to do wings 5+6, after all everyone could just exchange LI from wings 1-4 which were significantly easier and more farmed). To then come in and complain how some people do is what annoys me.

    @Roquen.5406 said:
    You are going to tell me in a patch that releases a legendary that finally requires use of LD, you go ahead and remove the conversion that you stated would never get removed.

    Yes, and I have repeatedly said I disagree with this and my disagreeing with this situation actually is more grave than my distaste for people acquiring LI from wing 1-4 and skipping wing 5-7 content. I still don't have to agree with the sense of entitlement some have shown here and blant disrespect for the developers.

    @Roquen.5406 said:
    You add in a reverse conversion because there really is no use for LD other than that ring.

    Which is a way greater issue since it signals that raids might be coming to an end reward wise and there might be no actual use for LD after getting the ring. All of which I find way more concerning as raider or from a game health perspective than some random people complaining about some loot they can't get right away.

    @Roquen.5406 said:
    You forget to tell the playerbase about it beforehand, you forget to put it in the patch notes, and you forget to say anything after the patch and you state, "it wasn't intentional to not communicate?". I'm sorry how many lies are they going to double down on? They clearly didn't want players to have the ring on day 1 and so they removed it to extend the content by an arbitrary X amount of time. But the thing is this ONLY punishes the players that trusted Anet. Those that didn't listen to them and converted right away, didn't lose out...only those that once again listened to Anet.

    and those that actually did the content after LDs were introduced don't even care. Personally I would never have allowed the exchange and left it at: wing 5 gave LI. Be happy about that, now it gives LD. Then again that's just me and I would not use my personal approach to argue for such a solution, what was promised should be honored.

    @Roquen.5406 said:
    And that is the issue right there. Anet set expectations based on information they gave, they patched in LD, an item that literally only has use for one item that players have been waiting for, they gave an exchange for this item because it didn't make the original release date they wanted, they then ripped that away without thought or word.

    And their response after the fact just says, at a planned future release. That could literally be a year from now. Their entire handling of this situation is terrible, and they've made similar mistakes before yet they don't seem to learn. And why you defend them is beyond me. This sets a terrible precedent.

    I fully agree that currently LD and LI make no sense. Might have just left it with LI to begin with when allowing an exchange which converts more than the required LD for 1 ring.

    As to their communication on the issue, again for the bazillionth time: yes I disagree with it. Still doesn't give some people the right to approach this issue verbaly the way they did imo.

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 23, 2019

    It shouldn't come back permanently. Because ppl can just kill w567 boss once (or buy) and then farm w1to4 or escort weekly to collect LD but again why not??? :)

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
    Envoy's Herald, EAoA, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, Champion Magus, Champion Phantom, Wondrous Achiever etc.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Talindra.4958 said:
    It shouldn't come back permanently. Because ppl can just kill w567 boss once (or buy) and then farm w1to4 or escort weekly to collect LD but again why not??? :)

    Remember, that the exchange is valid only for people that did at least one w5 boss before it was first put in.
    So, what exactly a permanent exchange changes? All it does is ensure noone that qualifed misses the exchange time (which, i'm sure, Anet would like to be extremely limited).

    Is there a functional difference between someone that did all w5-7 bosses once and then exchanged LIs (farmed in w4) for LDs long ago, and one that did the same, but, trusting Anet, waited with the exchange? I mean, beyond the fact that the second player apparently trusted Anet more? Because if there is one, i don't see it.
    So, the only thing removing exchange does is punishing that only point of difference - trust in Anet's promises.

    Basically, playes are now being penalized for nothing more than trusting Anet - which is a really dubious design choice, as i see it.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 24, 2019

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Is there a functional difference between someone that did all w5-7 bosses once and then exchanged LIs (farmed in w4) for LDs long ago, and one that did the same, but, trusting Anet, waited with the exchange? I mean, beyond the fact that the second player apparently trusted Anet more? Because if there is one, i don't see it.
    So, the only thing removing exchange does is punishing that only point of difference - trust in Anet's promises.

    Basically, playes are now being penalized for nothing more than trusting Anet - which is a really dubious design choice, as i see it.

    The main functional difference is that the players who exchanged their LI lost the ability to use those LI for armor giving up some choice and rewards for potential future use of then still useless LD. This might not seem like a lot to people in hindsight, but exchanging useful LI for useless LD at the time was quit unappealing and people who did so exchanged risk for potential future value. If it had been more appealing, everyone would have exchanged their LI. This is further supported by the argument that people wanted to wait and see how many LD are actually needed, signaling that they would exchange the amount required and rather keep their remaining kill rewards in form of LI (likely valuing armor over trinkets, even more so now that the ludicrous pricing of legendary trinkets is known).

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Basically, playes are now being penalized for nothing more than trusting Anet - which is a really dubious design choice, as i see it.

    True, and this is not okay. The faster this issue gets resolved the better, though given how some people are bound to "miss" a temporary exchange opportunity, I'm quite sure we will see complaints about this exchange getting removed for a long time.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 24, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Basically, playes are now being penalized for nothing more than trusting Anet - which is a really dubious design choice, as i see it.

    True, and this is not okay. The faster this issue gets resolved the better, though given how some people are bound to "miss" a temporary exchange opportunity, I'm quite sure we will see complaints about this exchange getting removed for a long time.

    Exactly. Personally, i don't really see the reason behind Anet's insistence of returning it only for a time. If not having the exchange is not important enough to go against that earlier promise, then they should reverse the removal decision, and have it back permanently. If it is important, however, then they should say so, and do not bring it back even for a second. Doing it the way they are doing it now only makes it so that people will get their exchange, but the promise will still get broken. So, basically, the worst of both worlds.
    And of course dragging their feet won't get them any positive PR points either.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Raizel.8175Raizel.8175 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Yes, and I did mention that you are among the only group of players who I believe get to complain (similar to myself, though I did keep raiding and never needed the exchange). Not everyone complaining here did their "share" of wing 5 or 6 boss kills. Which is fine, after all the exchange existed (and directly reduced the incentive to do wings 5+6, after all everyone could just exchange LI from wings 1-4 which were significantly easier and more farmed). To then come in and complain how some people do is what annoys me.
    Which is a way greater issue since it signals that raids might be coming to an end reward wise and there might be no actual use for LD after getting the ring. All of which I find way more concerning as raider or from a game health perspective than some random people complaining about some loot they can't get right away.

    I get your point and if the game - or rather: the game-mode - would be in a better state, I'd probably also agree with you. As it is though, I'd say that the main reason doing W5-W7 is heavily disincentivized is the community itself. There are exceptions of course, but in general, I'd say that the GW2-community is rather toxic when it comes to game-modes in which performance does matter (especially raids and fractals) - one of the main-reasons being that the game is utterly unsocial. The game being rather unsocial, all the toxicity (I mean... Seriously... Some parts of the raiding community have the mindset that people, who can't "monday-clear" (for whatever reasons), are trash.) and stuff like KP-systems (be it raids or fractal-CMs) are killing the content more than any reward-problem ever could. I'd also disagree with your sentiment that W1-W4 are an easymode-farm as that heavily depends on the environment in which you're raiding.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 24, 2019

    @Raizel.8175 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Yes, and I did mention that you are among the only group of players who I believe get to complain (similar to myself, though I did keep raiding and never needed the exchange). Not everyone complaining here did their "share" of wing 5 or 6 boss kills. Which is fine, after all the exchange existed (and directly reduced the incentive to do wings 5+6, after all everyone could just exchange LI from wings 1-4 which were significantly easier and more farmed). To then come in and complain how some people do is what annoys me.
    Which is a way greater issue since it signals that raids might be coming to an end reward wise and there might be no actual use for LD after getting the ring. All of which I find way more concerning as raider or from a game health perspective than some random people complaining about some loot they can't get right away.

    I get your point and if the game - or rather: the game-mode - would be in a better state, I'd probably also agree with you. As it is though, I'd say that the main reason doing W5-W7 is heavily disincentivized is the community itself.

    It's a combination of many factors. Difficulty of wings 5-7 compared to Wings 1-4 is another factor. Years of no use for LDs another. Arenanet removing the exchange of LI into LD while at the same time adding LD to LI conversion shows they have realised the issue of incentive to do wings 5-7 and the increased problem of more raid content for more casual raiders.

    Players unfortunately only care about their own personal loot and reward though (and who can blame them). Most could care less how the game mode does once they have their loot and reward that they want.

    @Raizel.8175 said:
    There are exceptions of course, but in general, I'd say that the GW2-community is rather toxic when it comes to game-modes in which performance does matter (especially raids and fractals) - one of the main-reasons being that the game is utterly unsocial.

    I do not agree that GW2 is any more toxic than any other game when it comes to performance. This has been covered in the past though. Suffice to say, people often compare farm content in other games (where people outscale the content vastly) with challenging content in GW2.

    @Raizel.8175 said:
    The game being rather unsocial, all the toxicity (I mean... Seriously... Some parts of the raiding community have the mindset that people, who can't "monday-clear" (for whatever reasons), are trash.) and stuff like KP-systems (be it raids or fractal-CMs) are killing the content more than any reward-problem ever could.

    I have never heard any one say people who do not full clear mondays are worse players (which doesn't mean it doesn't exist, I have never experienced it). There is raid guilds who have their clear days setup on tuesdays or thursdays or other days. The greatest effect mondays have is on PUG raiding since the amount of available players is the highest. Then again, I do not judge intended challenging group content to be measured how groups of random strangers perform in it, but again, this has been discussed before.

    @Raizel.8175 said:
    I'd also disagree with your sentiment that W1-W4 are an easymode-farm as that heavily depends on the environment in which you're raiding.

    Wing 1-4 is objectively easier in every regard to wings 5-7. Be it due to longer availability, mechanics which have become outdated and can be circumvented with new abilities (barrier says high) or strait up power creep, clear rates, etc.

    There is absolutely no argument that Wing 1-4 is easier than 5-7. My referance to wing 1-4 being easier is in context to comparing it to Wing 5-7.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/961363/#Comment_961363

    Okay, seems the exchange will be brought back permanently after all, so we can hopefully lay the topic to rest.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Roquen.5406Roquen.5406 Member ✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/961363/#Comment_961363

    Okay, seems the exchange will be brought back permanently after all, so we can hopefully lay the topic to rest.

    The question is not if but when...they gave the same exact vague wording, "at a future planned build". You don't have to agree with me but I would like to know a general ballpark. That could be tomorrow, a month, 3 months, 6 months, a year...?

    I can't imagine the lines of code that already exist are that complicated to implement back in, so the vagueness is strange to me.

    For me it goes back to communication. If they intend to make me wait some months, half a year, or a year, just let me know and then I can go on about my way.

    Is it the end of the world? No, is it disappointing? Yes, it is. /shrug

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Roquen.5406 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/961363/#Comment_961363

    Okay, seems the exchange will be brought back permanently after all, so we can hopefully lay the topic to rest.

    The question is not if but when...they gave the same exact vague wording, "at a future planned build". You don't have to agree with me but I would like to know a general ballpark. That could be tomorrow, a month, 3 months, 6 months, a year...?

    I can't imagine the lines of code that already exist are that complicated to implement back in, so the vagueness is strange to me.

    For me it goes back to communication. If they intend to make me wait some months, half a year, or a year, just let me know and then I can go on about my way.

    Is it the end of the world? No, is it disappointing? Yes, it is. /shrug

    I guess they will bring it back on the next patch? After that I would start asking questions.
    I always prefer to blame mistake over malice.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 25, 2019

    @yann.1946 said:

    @Roquen.5406 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/961363/#Comment_961363

    Okay, seems the exchange will be brought back permanently after all, so we can hopefully lay the topic to rest.

    The question is not if but when...they gave the same exact vague wording, "at a future planned build". You don't have to agree with me but I would like to know a general ballpark. That could be tomorrow, a month, 3 months, 6 months, a year...?

    I guess they will bring it back on the next patch? After that I would start asking questions.

    That's my reading as well - that they will not make a special build for this change alone, but will add it to a next build (so, today, since it's the beginning of Dragon Bash, and they are certain to do a patch for it), alongside other stuff. If it's not so, then yes, it would be a reason to pick up the topic right again.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.