I'm not going to allow you to get away with these extremely vague accusations. Moving the goalposts is where when you present an argument (or demand for proof), someone answers it, and you retroactively change said argument so the answer doesn't apply anymore. It's one of those fallacies that allows the user to (incorrectly) trick themselves into thinking they don't ever have to be wrong, which is what you're doing. It's also what you did. You said someone's suggestion had no pros, I listed some pros, you say they weren't pros, I saw that's because you're only thinking of yourself. And then you hit me with this: Yes, and neither are you. Raiders already seem to be mostly fine with how raids are now, and if there are things they'd like changed, I mostly support that, but right now we're talking about the people for whom raids do NOT currently work, and making the mode more fun for those players. The changes I advocate for are in the service of that goal. I do not expect existing raiders to benefit significantly from those changes, but that is not the point of them. That's just drawing a big ??? for me there. The more I read these comments,the more I wonder if putting Legendary Envoy armor behind Raids was a good idea. Had they not thrown in the armor would many of us even be discussing any of this right now? Hypothetically speaking of course. It was a positively horrible idea to do what they did.. and it is about the only thing that is bringing in new blood to the game mode. Thankfully they had a bout of common sense and put in alternate paths to Legendary Armor. I honestly don’t think people wouldn’t be complaining nearly as much, if they only kept the current raid skins you find now like the pieces of Dhuum’s armor, Matthias staff etc. I mean Raids were designed to give people the challenge, no? That’s what the driving factor was, yes? Scripted Encounters can never truly maintain challenge, this is why trying to make PvE Content like Raids is a failure from the get go, unless the game is built from the group up to provide this kind of content, which GW2 was not. With any kind of scripted content, once the mechanics are figured out they become a grind. The only Challenge Raids bring is dealing with 9 other people who may or may not know what they are doing. So, in short, it does not provide challenge from the content itself, it just kills PUG's and breeds toxic elitism as everyone doing raids does not want challenge anymore they want a fast grind of content, speed clears and 100% completion. Now for me, I have always understood that skins were often content exclusive. That has been the nature of the game, but you know, games evolve, and if they can change one way, they can change another, so even trying to cling to exclusive skins for content is not really worthwhile at this point. But I don't really care that much for the skins as they are, so it's not an issue for me. In fact, I think they Evony is awfully ugly. With that said, it was a horrible idea to put legendary Armor behind Raids as this bottlenecks the the end game, moving away from several game styles that provided equal yet unique rewards, to One game Style that provided the best rewards. They started down this bad direction path with Fractals, but they at least had the awareness to put in alternate paths to Ascended as opposed to them just being drops in Fractals, but, that still gave fractals the best gear drops in the game, till they sorta-kinda branched off on that. But this whole thing where they lock the best tier of gear behind a raid, that's going to hurt them, quite a bit to be honest, as while many players may not care about raids, in a game like GW2 a lot of them at least like the idea of being able to progress towards long goals like Legendary Armor and Gear, and with raid locking these things that kills the goal before they even start on it. Which will demoralize their casual base, and there is no question about this. As such, I would bet a large portion of the current community is already looking for another game to replace GW2 for them, but with poor lunches by games like Bless and many other really exciting MMO's being a few years off, no doubt most of the people already miffed about this have stopped spending money, hence the current change in how the store works, and have been looking at other games, with that said, BDO could have been beyond great if their UI was better. So, their move to put in this content, and then lock legendary armor behind it.. oh.. that's hurting them and it's gonna hurt them a lot more as time goes on.Just because something is scripted doesn't mean it's easy. That's like saying playing flight of the bumblebee 300 bpm with a tuba flawlessly is easy because it's scripted.