TallBarr.2184

There exists a separate thread for this discussion. OP brings up raid selling, i am fully aware there is a thread for raid selling.

Umm well yes it does, coming from a game that allowed MB'ing in pvp when all the boxer has to do is press one button to shoot one spell 60 times at the same target in one shot, no one can defend against that. Its an instakill without the possibility of being able to react. I dont care how MBers want to paint it its an advantage. I cant even believe they allow multiboxing in this game to begin with. Its already not allowed to macro so all accounts would attack simultaneously so i dont see your problem.

Whether the game has developer built voice comm or not is not the point. The point is the players' action. Players are free to take whatever actions in-game or use any devices not created by the devs, as long as they don't break the rules. A player using bugs and exploits to do what is not allowed, even without using any outside tools, is cheating. A player playing by the rules, using outside devices approved by the devs, is not cheating. As for raid selling, the reason this is allowed is because it is not a competition. The reason players are allowed to multibox outside pvp and wvw is because open world pve is not a competition. Since this is not a competition, other players are not directly affected by these. Just because one is jealous somebody else had an easier time is not competition. Whatever your definition or interpretation of competition is, is meaningless. The reason you cannot multibox in wvw is because that is a competition against other players. If you want to have a scout, you need to have actual players manually scouting and then try to properly communicate with other players, who cannot actually see what is going on and, therefore, do not have the full info. Having a second screen for you to automatically see 100% of the information going on somewhere else at all times is cheating in a competition. You're directly cheating against other players following the rules, which creates a negative experience for everybody else involved in that competition. Whatever your definition or interpretation of cheating is, is meaningless. Why are your definitions meaningless? Because you do not set the rules. Anet sets the rules. You do not decide what is cheating in this game. Anet decides what is cheating in this game. And if you want to play in a competition against other players in Anet's game, you have to follow Anet's rules. Going against Anet's rules and design of what is allowed is the very definition of cheating and breaking the rules. Again, before you post even more excuses to justify your actions and try to convince others to your rules, if you want to play Anet's game, you have to follow Anet's rules. Breaking their rules and making excuses trying to justify your actions is pointless and a waste of people's time. Anet’s rules are designed for fair competition for all players involved. The game does not revolve around just your fun and convenience. Other players are not following the rules just so you can kitten on them. If you want to play with other players in Anet's game, follow Anet's rules in Anet's game! Multiboxing has been alowed for as long as i can remember as long as you follow their policy of being responsive when a GM messages you and not getting rewards while being afk. Only in this updated policy have they done a complete 180 and not allow it at all. I have not read anywhere that scouting on more then 1 account would be CHEATING or it ever was CHEATING, or EXPLOITING (wtf?) but if that exists somewhere you are free to link it. Knowing Anet they will never say why its forbidden now, it could be beacuse of griefers pulling enemy tacivators, it could be people spying on their enemy servers, we will never know, and neither will you. I havent broken any rules by scouting with alt accounts before this policy change so i dont have to justify anything, i have obliged with the multiboxing rules which are:1) Each account must be attended at all times.2) Each account must be operated independently of each other.3) Accounts must not be operated simultaneously using macros or bots.4) One keystroke should translate to one action on one account.Here's what you should keep in mind if you plan to run multiple clients: 5) You may use more than one account at the same time.6) You may use more than one computer at the same time.7) You must be actively playing on each account.8) You may NOT program your keyboard to perform functions on more than one account at a time. For example, if you press [W] on your keyboard to move forward, a single character on a single account should move forward. The keystroke or mouse click should not perform functions on more than one account.9) You may not use a macro to activate the skills of a character or multiple characters on more than one account.10) You may not use third-party botting tools to manage and play any number of characters, or to engage in unattended gameplay. if you want to play Anet's game, you have to follow Anet's rules. Yeah i'm not going to risk my accounts over bringing my accounts into wvw for the small rewards and the miniscule advantage it would give me while commanding, i will just tell people to do the scouting instead. If they dont want players legitimately play their game with multiboxing i will stop doing it. But this post is about the policy change and if people cant voice their concerns maybe they should not make discussion posts about the subject. Its clear that Anet treat the gamemodes differently by reading their updated policy on other subjects and gamemodes: "Second, after digging into the origins of the funds involved in large transfers, we learned that almost all of them were directly involved in some form of Fraud and/or RMT. Obviously, Fraud is disallowed, and Real Money Trading (RMT) is absolutely against the rules." So they learn that large transfers were often involved in RMT, which is not allowed. Why not forbid raid selling completely then? How can a few rotten eggs griefing or spying on the enemy server change the policies for wvw. Again Anet shows their inconsistency when making their policies depending what gamemode it is which is sad.

This should be not permitted because it gives you an advantage over other players. You exist in multiple locations. A normal player can't do this. Simple as that. Same thing could be said about multiboxing in general then, i can "exist" on multiple locations in pve aswell. As for advantage over other players any player can have multiple accounts. Playing wvw or pvp with voicecoms gives you an advantage aswell if the enemy team doesnt have it. Scouting is a trivial thing both teams do, it doesnt give you any substantial advantage other then doing something people dont generally enjoy. As a commander i wouldnt have to beg and ask people to scout something when i can do it myself. There are multiple issues at stake here though. First off, the reward structure in spvp and wvw is a lot more multibox friendly (not to mention afk leechers or bots) compared to general pve. Second, and specific to wvw, your multiboxed characters are taking away active slots from other characters on the map. That is an issue, especially since on fuller servers there will be queues. Now one could argue you might log out your extra characters when prime time hits, but the general rules can't take into account benevolent action from single players because there might just as well be players who would simply keep occupying the wvw slots. If i wanted scouts as a commander i would ask my squad, not many would be interested and most of the times they would want payment for it, which is acceptable for how boring it is. By using my alts i wouldnt need to ask people to do it, i could do it for as long and wherever i wanted. If its not my characters it will be someone else doing it. There are 4 different borders to chose from its not like 3 scouts is gonna mess it up for everyone, there are more single account players simply afking at any given time. The shared partcipation is there for scouters, thats why it was implemented. You cant just give out shared participation, you would need to have a squad with enough members to get the slots. if 3 scouts is not important, then why are you doing it? the adavntage is clear, since wvw benefits from intel because response time is a factor. the flaw is you’re pitching a workaround as the intended solution to a design problem compounded with a social problem. thats not acceptable because someone is now getting a mechanical advantage thats external to the game (in either software,acccounts, and hardware). Its also interfering with legitimate players ability to participate in wvw by taking up active map slots and server populaion caps. These need to be addessed by design. but in the meantime that doesnt give free reign to go against the spirit of the game mode. wvw is about a community cooperating to win a war.... people might not treat it like that, but avoiding it rather then tackling it only prolongs the problem. and frankly wvw has suffered for far too long with community problems and guilds not wanting to pitch in. thats something no amount of reward stacking is going to fixWhere in my post do i say 3 scouts is not important. Yes its a about a community cooperating to win a war and for that to be successful i would argue that a commander willing to tag up is the most important part. Me scouting on my alts while commanding helps me do a better job commandign which helps the community. Scouting on alts for your server is available to everyone with more then 1 account, multiboxing is a legitimate way of playing the game by Anet if you follow the rules. 1) you would help your server scouting which is part fo the gamemode2) you would need to eb responsive when GM messages you like everywhere else in the game Since when is getting a advantage ingame by legitimate means something bad, i say kudos to people who streamline the way they play the game as long as its within the rules of the game.

Yeah i'm sure of that, and that behaviour shouldnt be allowed and people who do it should be punished accordingly. But saying flat no to multiboxing in wvw is like saying flat no to raid selling and other services for payment, some of these services are paid by RMT which is not allowed, and Anet have stated that themselves.As long as:1) the alt accounts are on the same server2) the alts dont just stand at spawn doing fuck all3) the alts are responsive if messaged by GMI dont see the problem with multiboxing in wvw I see people bring up the argument that somehow these scouts would clog up the borders, how often is every border full? from my own experience not very often depending what tier world you are on of course. If a map is queued u sit in queue for that border and play on another border in the meantime, its not like those players cant play the gamemode. All borders are full? go play eotm till you get in. To get rewards from your alts you would need to have shared participation otherwise your participation runs out, for that you would need to have a squad with enough members, there are only a limited amount of shared partcipation spots available. People are not going to scout if they dont get rewarded for doing so, either from players sending them stuff or from shared partcipation.

I used to compete in many games and this would definitely be cheating in an environment when you’re using this against other players. If Anet is certain you’re multiboxing, your account can get banned for something like this. Using voicecoms in any competetive gamemode gives you advantages but to do that you would need a headset and a mic, i dont use voicecoms when i lead and i dont have a headset with mic does that mean using voicecoms is cheating? Anyone can invest in a headset or a second copy of the game if they want to. Those are very different. In games like GW2's WvW, stealth is a big part of the strategy, attacking a base when the enemy is not aware. The players are granted vision of their own character's FOV. They're not meant to have access to 2 screens so that they can see one area of the game to see what the enemy is doing, while playing in another part of the game. That goes against the design of the game. Having voice communication for better communication is not against the design of the game mode. Hence, the difference. Not only that, by having a player's slot taken up for your second screen, you're creating a disadvantage for your team. That you have another screen to help alleviate that is not an excuse as 2 wrongs do not make a right. Every player who cheats has excuses on why their cheating is not cheating and how it's justified. If Anet allowed these, then the game would be an unplayable mess. This is why every competition has rules and all players who play must comply with those rules. Otherwise, the game loses its integrity. If you purposefully break the stated rules without really good reasons, you can get banned and Anet won’t care what your justifications are.If voicecom is not against the design of the game why is there no ingame voicecom. That stealth you mention is why scouts exist, if i didnt scout someone else would scout. Does it give me a advantage? maybe, but its available to anyone with more then 1 account. Do people gried with several accounts and spy on enemies, of course and they should be handled individually not a flat out no multiboxing allowed even if all of your accounts are on the same world.

I used to compete in many games and this would definitely be cheating in an environment when you’re using this against other players. If Anet is certain you’re multiboxing, your account can get banned for something like this. Using voicecoms in any competetive gamemode gives you advantages but to do that you would need a headset and a mic, i dont use voicecoms when i lead and i dont have a headset with mic does that mean using voicecoms is cheating? Anyone can invest in a headset or a second copy of the game if they want to. Where in the GW2 policy does it state that voice coms are not allowed? Because now it clearly states that multiboxing is not allowed. You have no argument point with these changes, it's now clearly against policy to multibox in wvw, so stop trying to justify it, just stop doing it.Nowhere, but people say multiboxing is "cheating" or "unfair advantage" and that its "p2w" beacuse you have to buy the game copies, you also have to buy headser with a mic to use and listen to voicecoms. Multiboxing have never been a problem in wvw before. Is it a problem some people make accounts on their enemy servers to grief and spy - absolutely, but there are also legitimate ways to multibox is wvw. It not being allowed in pvp makes sense, beacuse people have been signing up for pvp tournaments and then just afk with their team.

I used to compete in many games and this would definitely be cheating in an environment when you’re using this against other players. If Anet is certain you’re multiboxing, your account can get banned for something like this. Using voicecoms in any competetive gamemode gives you advantages but to do that you would need a headset and a mic, i dont use voicecoms when i lead and i dont have a headset with mic does that mean using voicecoms is cheating? Anyone can invest in a headset or a second copy of the game if they want to.

This should be not permitted because it gives you an advantage over other players. You exist in multiple locations. A normal player can't do this. Simple as that. Same thing could be said about multiboxing in general then, i can "exist" on multiple locations in pve aswell. As for advantage over other players any player can have multiple accounts. Playing wvw or pvp with voicecoms gives you an advantage aswell if the enemy team doesnt have it. Scouting is a trivial thing both teams do, it doesnt give you any substantial advantage other then doing something people dont generally enjoy. As a commander i wouldnt have to beg and ask people to scout something when i can do it myself. There are multiple issues at stake here though. First off, the reward structure in spvp and wvw is a lot more multibox friendly (not to mention afk leechers or bots) compared to general pve. Second, and specific to wvw, your multiboxed characters are taking away active slots from other characters on the map. That is an issue, especially since on fuller servers there will be queues. Now one could argue you might log out your extra characters when prime time hits, but the general rules can't take into account benevolent action from single players because there might just as well be players who would simply keep occupying the wvw slots.If i wanted scouts as a commander i would ask my squad, not many would be interested and most of the times they would want payment for it, which is acceptable for how boring it is. By using my alts i wouldnt need to ask people to do it, i could do it for as long and wherever i wanted. If its not my characters it will be someone else doing it. There are 4 different borders to chose from its not like 3 scouts is gonna mess it up for everyone, there are more single account players simply afking at any given time. The shared partcipation is there for scouters, thats why it was implemented. You cant just give out shared participation, you would need to have a squad with enough members to get the slots.

This should be not permitted because it gives you an advantage over other players. You exist in multiple locations. A normal player can't do this. Simple as that. Same thing could be said about multiboxing in general then, i can "exist" on multiple locations in pve aswell. As for advantage over other players any player can have multiple accounts. Playing wvw or pvp with voicecoms gives you an advantage aswell if the enemy team doesnt have it. Scouting is a trivial thing both teams do, it doesnt give you any substantial advantage other then doing something people dont generally enjoy. As a commander i wouldnt have to beg and ask people to scout something when i can do it myself.

Their previous policies have been vague and perceived differently from both players and GMs so i dont see why questions regarding the updated policy shouldnt be asked. I personally dont do pvp dailies in personal arenas but people on reddit voiced their concerns with the pvp dailies done in the personal arenas if it was allowed or not. Doing dailies in a private arena happens in a competetive gamemode but it doesnt effect other players.

"Multi-boxing may ONLY be used in PvE areas. You are not permitted to run multiple accounts simultaneously in PvP, WvW, activities, or in other competitive environments." Does this mean you are not allowed to do pvp dailies in pvp matches with several accounts if its in private arenas. Also what does "activities" mean, like keg brawl?

That clear things up thank you. Not being at computer and not responsive while doing anything that grants you rewards is not allowedDoing the same thing but with your headphones in your ears is fine beacuse you have your UI volume turned up to the max so u hear whenever someone messages you = Actively playing the gameNot very logical to use the term "active" for responding to a message imo. I'm not english speaker but when someone tells me i have to be active it means i have to play the game, use skills manually, walk manually, not sit somewhere for hours letting ai do the work. Maybe they should ditch the whisper and use say chat instead.. maybe they were not so aware of their surroundings after all.. ooopss But if Anet is fine with it so be it.happy afk far... unattentive farming everyone.

There are guidelines on how AFKing is handled & enforced by every GM. But GMs are only human. If they made a mistake, the only way that ANet would find out is if someone files an appeal. this quote from a seperate forum post sums it up nicely: < "AFK farming isn't okay, because it tends to lead people to stop playing (both the AFKers and those who see them); it has an economic impact, too, but not as severe. Inattentive farming is okay. For example, you can watch a movie while moving your character occasionally." (I did find this original post in the forums although the movie reference was not included in the original post) I understand the difference but they're not playing actively playing the game. They can be playing CS:GO, or watching a movie like they said, or cleaning the house. The point is they are not actively playing the game. They are doing activities outside the game while having their characters logged in and gaining items in the game while they are not actively playing. People will probably argue this is fine since they check their computer occasionally but in the end they are not actively playing the game. It does give the appearance of them having an unfair advantage." Also why is there even a difference between afk farming or "unattentive farming" they get the same loot, they stand at the same spot, its the same thing. Its just different words. "That's consistent with the policy ANet has stated."apparently not when you claim unattendive farming is somehow okay "I don't see evidence that they are contradicting each other."I'm not allowed to share such things on their official forums, since it would get me a warning or banned from posting here. But give me your reddit name and ill send you some screenshots. some quotes from anet GM's from reddit: "The game is made to be actively played" "You need to be active and involved when you gain benefits in the game. So "afking while meta", if it gives you a benefit, is not okay. The game was made to be played, actively, by a person directing the actions directly." " If a user does choose to use more than one client, they need to be fully in control of each of them. This includes being responsive and being aware of the surroundings."

ll "They don't rely just on response to whispers. If there's no answer, the GMs will move the characters away from the farm and see if there's any change." Then there must be different protocols of how to treat afk players between the GM's because my chars were being suspended few minutes after my characters were teleported to the southwest corner of the halloween labyrinthe just at the map border, i moved them away from there when they were ported but that didnt seem to matter. And if thats the case thats not fair towards the players, there needs to be guidelines for how afking is handled enforced by every GM.

You are assuming that I am defending afk farming? Maybe go back to the post above your first one where I actually wrote What I am defending here are the facts like non-despawning minions, the officially given criteria for unallowed afk-farming and common sense like that having a button pressed down permanently is just an indication and not a "proof" that someone is afk. You probably won't bother to check my post history on this topic, but my dislike for afk-farming, botting and cheating is rivaled by my dislike for factual wrong statements in the threads about it. Just like not answering a message cant be proof someone is afk but merely a indication, its humanly possible to miss someone messaging you. None is asking for their systems on how they track botters, but when the only reason you get is that you didnt answer a message it makes you think. Bottom line is if you position yourself anywhere in the game and dont actively play you should be subject to botting. Letting your minions do the job is not active play, letting your turrets do the job is not active play either.Anet can fix this easy by just reworking turrets and minions, voila.. problem solved. This is why AI is bad for any game, so easy to exploit.

I do not understand what "playing on a minimalized screen" is supposed to be though, and why you saw being moved but did not see being whispered. The interface has only 4 size settings, 2 bigger than normal and 1 smaller than normal. Even with small setting it is impossible to make the interface so small that you would become unable to see a message. Whisper colours can easily blend it to the others map chat colours or guild chat colours if you are controlling 4 accounts at the same time, running and tagging monsters. Not like anyone playing the game looks at the chat all the time.

All the questions of "is it ok" have been answered already. Here are the three critetia once again, as reposted several dozen times in threads like these, including this one: **1. Using skill (1 or more) while AFKAFKing in a place where it is beneficial for your character to be atUnresponsive to interaction with GMs** If you put a weight on a key triggering a skill (like the skill1 "attack button") #1 applies: Your char is using a skillIf you are at a place where mobs keep spawning that drop loot, give xp, give you participation in an event or anything else beneficial for your char #2 appliesIf you are afk as in you are not there and will not see when a GM checks on you (be it that he whispers you or moves you to a different place) #3 applies. So jamming a key on your keyboard for your char to attack mobs and then leaving your PC obviously falls in the not ok category. Btw. here is a screenshot I took in ember bay at the most common necro farming spot where I farmed unbound magic and karma just 2 days ago (names, char models and guild tags removed). I was in group with one other who frequently stands there and took the picture after every char there was teleported to a different location one by one. You can see those who didn't notice right away still stand in the water, and there was one more char standing further away on the beach. This is not the first time this happened. So clearly, ArenaNet is actually doing something and checks if the people standing there are actually afk, or just lazy. You can also see if the char is using any skill once he is ported out of the blob of other chars and pets, and any char who is just standing there without using a skill will be fine even if the player is afk, because #1 does not apply when no skill is being used. "You can also see if the char is using any skill once he is ported out of the blob of other chars and pets, and any char who is just standing there without using a skill will be fine even if the player is afk, because #1 does not apply when no skill is being used.".#2 should apply then, intentionally positioning yourself at an area where monsters spawn that your minions will attack = get loot Do you know if Anet has stated why they are teleporting chars to begin with, is it to check if they are responsive or not. I received a 3 month suspension for missing a single dev message in chat scrollback while i was playing the game on minimalized screens, which means smaller interface , i saw my char being teleported real time and i moved my char away from there, minutes later the suspension was in effect. With no previous warnings or suspensions for afk farming.

Faren, I am your father