bethekey.8314

Hmm

Lol, I'm aware it's you, no need to clarify 🙂 Thanks, and yeah it's definitely lacking as a standalone weapon. From what I've seen, the way Holos are making it "work" in team PvP is a bastardized version of what I'm proposing here. Holo's gated mobility allows a clunky in-and-out playstyle, adding the defense shortbow desperately needs. I fully lean into mobility as defense here with a decap role. Losing shield just guts your ability to teamfight/go into melee on most classes. The Holos then spend much of the time spamming mortar while practicing their About Face keybinds. I personally find the mortar/nade spam playstyle tiresome at this point, so I tried to let the support side of Scrapper + Shortbow shine. The build as-is, is not meant to 1v1 well. I'd say with equal skill vs an actual duel build I'm disadvantaged, but able to eke out wins like a thief spamming ports / stealth for favorable trades. And so yes, it's not a hyper carry type build that highly rated players almost HAVE to play to make the majority of matches bearable. It's unfortunate that more players aren't competent enough to make other roles equally viable while carrying, but that's what my other thread was about. We'll see if I get around to the vids; they'd probably be minimally edited. Against burst builds, you manage distance to predict their teleports/bursts, preemptively Shortbow 4 to get Aegis and Prot up, and hover over rocket boots. You just don't have the resources to trade with or counter their resources in that location. Maybe you can fight them after they've wasted CDs, but the real answer to fighting them is simply: don't. If it's a risky fight you actually have some luxury in picking your fights like a Thief. Bold concept for Engis, I know. Even without vertical teleports or stealth spam, an upgraded Rocket Boots with some mines / slick shoes behind you will end most fights. The damage is a bit less, yes and if you like it I'd be curious. I think I tried it a little. My brief train of thought: If you're going Rifle, you're shifting from a support to a more damage oriented role. If you want damage, Explosives still takes priority over Inventions imo. If you try to fit both Explosives and Inventions in a build, you're likely dropping Tools or going Core. If you drop Tools, you're likely not playing gadgets and can't enable Explosive Entrance with more dodges. Regardless of how you justify it, there's usually a cascade of consequences for you changing one component of these builds. I think so? If you're asking if Shortbow can hit hard, yes sometimes you go above 5k.

It almost feels silly to have to say, but here we are. There is certainly an element of this here. Thanks for adding

Hey man...you've certainly given me a lot to think about. In retrospect, maybe I was too harsh on you. Poor, shaken boy as you are. Maybe your very first post in here accusing me of doctoring the video to manipulate responses was in good faith, and deserved respect. I'm sorry. I assume that's how I'd respond if I read your wall, but I'm kinda tired and getting ready for a trip. So I've tasked ChatGPT to give an actual response, in the form of a 1990s era rap: Yo, hold up, hold up, let me drop some rhymes on this forum vibe, Seems like you're taking shots, but I'll keep it live. Talking 'bout group hazing tactics, but I'm still standing tall, Your solo efforts may be failing, but mine? They never fall. You say I'm lonely, but I'm just vibing with my crew, Positive spins, yeah, that's what we do. But you keep focusing on negativity, bro, that ain't cool, You could learn a thing or two, instead of acting like a fool. I ain't here for no drama, just trying to spread some love, But you keep coming at me, like a push and a shove. Talking 'bout accessibility, well, I'm all about that too, But you keep missing the point, stuck in your own view. You say I need validation, but I'm standing strong and true, I don't need approval from the likes of you. Bringing up LTG like it's some kind of sign, But I'm just here to drop these rhymes and shine. You talk about Woodstock, memes, and all that jazz, But I'm just doing me, no need to cause a fuss. So when the mods come through, and lock this thread down tight, Just remember, I'll still be here, shining bright in the night. So keep on with your hate, your negativity, and your spite, But I'll be spreading love, like a beacon of light. Rank 500 in PvP, yeah, I've put in the grind, But I'm still here on forums, dropping rhymes, all the time. So let's end this on a high, no need for more strife, I'll keep doing me, living that rap life. But if you wanna keep going, well, that's on you, I'll just be here, doing what I do. Peace out, yo! Suffice to say, when I get back, you'll pretty much be talking to ChatGPT from now on.

PvP, lol. Thanks I thought that one was good. Idk where you're getting these "pro" or "leagues ahead" quotes from lol. If you believe that the only people that can judge your gameplay as poor / these people in the video as bad are "pros", then I'm sorry to have to break it to you again: many, many non-"pros" are much better than you and are much more tactful in how they respond. For the screen shake, just lol. If anyone else wants a laugh this is how he plays: https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxPGE0biEQpf5ztstEYPZGIRzHdZBGjQSa?feature=shared As the one who was in the game, yes, I try to respond and correct incorrect assumptions. I also created the thread for discussion. Do you not want me to talk in my own thread? As for who keeps responding to who, not only did you willingly enter this discussion, you made a thread mimicking my thread, and replied again after I ignored one of your more inane comments about Shortbow lol. You add so little to this thread besides being "that kid" I have to put down time and time again. At least it's entertaining.

You post this stuff unironically without posting any actual video evidence, just a 1-minute edited clip as you point out. A 1-minute clip of where you didn't even 1v2 let alone 1v4. My man can't even tell reality from an exaggerated example to point out flaws in thinking. You realize I said "literal robots programmed" on purpose right? Did your parents also use screen shake when you were a baby?

Team Comp: 4 literal robots programmed to run to mid and /dance, and me. In a Herculean effort I manage to 1v4 and we're up in points. In frustration from seeing my teammates' behavior, I decide it's not worth it or likely that I'll be able to 1v4 the entire match. I give up and we lose. Forums: You're the problem. That's these people's logic. Stay sane, forums. I'm well aware of the current situation of needing to hyper carry to ensure a win. Farm or be farmed. I enjoy playing different builds though (e.g. support, side node) and believe it shouldn't have to be more difficult for the highest rated player on a team to win on those. The people not expected to carry can play whatever they want and have a decent time. But in dragging down their teammates constantly, they effectively limit the build diversity and ruin the match for the better player. I'm placing the blame squarely on the Hammer War/ Deadeye type players here and I think it's long deserved. You can't even watch a 1 minute video without making up falsehoods to support whatever side you're on. At this point, I think you're just upset that I called you bad tbh. If it's any consolation, you seem to care more about PvP than the Hammer War / Deadeye. That's worth something.

Yeah I could see it being great in WvW. More solo, offensive versions are easy enough to make, swapping 2x Function gyros for Kinetic Accelerator might + fury uptime. I really want the Core Engi version to work, with Flashbang and Explosive Entrance procs comboing with Bunker Down: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PeQAUlNw2YjsQmKO+OvrbA-DaIPjMVAFMBU7tBAA But the lack of superspeed / function gyro dazes / barrier for utility/survival is felt.

There's a clear difference. I showed up able to contribute meaningfully to my team. They didn't. If you view that as equivalent, then there's no point in discussing further lol.

It's pretty common, lol. You will never be able to convince me that the person who willfully queues for a team game mode, without knowing how to be a competent teammate, isn't the problem. And instead, the competent teammate who refuses to carry their dead weight further after a breaking point, is. This of course assumes that the person judging them is fair. If you're ok with how they drag their teams down, then I can phrase my behavior another way. I didn't give up. I grew tired and started playing like them; that is, doing relatively nothing to contribute toward team success. Everyone is entitled to play how they want, at least solo. In team modes, I'm arguing there is a basic level of competence/knowledge (e.g. rotation, roles, capping, reading the map) that should be expected outside of build and mechanics. There are plenty of ways to learn this. I've done more than most toward PvP education over the years and written multiple threads about how to either 1) improve matchmaking or 2) support community and learning tools. To me, there is no excuse for this level of incompetency and it's plain rude. Any less-than-pleasant reaction on my part is from years of enduring people like this. And yet people are quick to defend their behavior as we see here. I still enjoy many aspects of the game, but this one sticks out to me as something that should be called out / discussed for anything to improve.

Swell logic there bud. If you dress up a monkey in a football uniform, put him on the field as quarterback, and he fails miserably at every game aspect to the point the rest quit, I'm sure you'd say the others were the problem too. Now make half the team monkeys. Guess why the game was even close? I can't control matchmaking. They can learn basic game mode mechanics like 2+ on an empty node doesn't make it cap faster / rotation. Keep deluding yourself with stories about a game you were never in.

I use "work" loosely. Played well in non-tip-top games I think it's somewhat viable and I've been having fun on it. It still needs love buff-wise. Here's the build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PeQAUlNw2YjsQmKeeX3NPA-DaIPjMVAFMBU7tBAA Some notes: - You're filling decap and support roles. Looking to dart around point to point and stunlock to finish targets. - A typical teamfight will have you mass clearing stability + hitting AoE Bunker Downs with Mines. Follow-up with the big AoE Shortbow 5, AoE daze chain, Function Gyro dazes, and a Rampage/Tornado (selecting the cc option to combo with Bunker Down). It can swing teamfights. Seriously, watch the barrier generation you get from damaging the AoE golems in the HOTM. In a pinch, running through teamfights with Tools buffed Slick Shoes can hit for 4k+ itself. - Bunker Down adds just enough damage and sustain as full glass to let you 1v1. Double Mine + Infusion Bomb + Shortbow 2 + Rocket Boots into the water field = 5 healing blasts, like an extra heal. - You have barely any health and one stunbreak. Typical Engi things. But if you get stunlocked, you can still use instant Slick Shoes to slow them, Stunbreak, and spam Rocket Boots. Usually you'll have your Inventions smoke field trait up and the Rocket Boots will blast stealth. Great escape. - Shortbow auto in teamfights is decent. The aoe shock adds up. I have some gameplay footage I can upload in a week or so if people are interested.

Love the range of responses here. The clearly called out, the trolls, and the naive optimists who act as if optimal play and team roles apply with teammates like this. This is correct, generally. I want to believe that there are still some worthwhile people on the forums. I see only a few. No one forces you to watch or reply and yet, here you are all the same, weirdly interested in getting others to fondle plants. Keep to yourself if you don't care haha.

I can see the irony of the Hammer Warrior went over your head. You see, the very inept Warrior who asked why others were throwing, was himself throwing all game. Much like how you pretend to know anything about PvP while posting awful gameplay. I'm sorry if I'm the only person honest enough to tell you.

There is no time cut in the video except for the very end screenshots of the warrior asking about throws and the deadeye being rude. There is a zoom in on me saying "yeah that's a clone" and it zooms back out. The chat log is visible the entire time. I get that you're confused. You seem confused often. And no offense, any experienced player can watch 30 seconds of your videos like I did before, and conclude that you're in no position to give PvP advice. I only reiterate this because you insist on giving it. I offered to point out why I say this before, but if I recall correctly you refused or didn't respond. Good luck out there.

You remind me of the Hammer Warrior (respectfully).

These players can't distinguish AI from real players and don't have object permanence. They don't do any research to be useful (e.g. good build, game mode mechanics) and think nodes cap faster with more people. They treb and cap Djinn buffs unironically. They don't understand how respawns work, what rotations are, or that there's a map in the corner. If there's a single enemy in their horse-blinded LOS, every single one of them will zerg it down at the expense of every other objective. Your advice only works for carry type builds, which favor certain classes. If I play anything resembling support (like Shortbow Engi), that means giving more agency to the bad players, letting them dictate where to be. And I guarantee you, they have 2+ semi-competent players to my 1. One decapper on the enemy team equals a loss.

Right. Anyway

Yes, there is nuance. But that nuance goes out the window when things are at excessive levels. If you record/watch fights it becomes very apparent who has more vulnerable openings, who has more damage, and what kinds of defenses each class has.

Break it down more. Static Discharge is designed so it only hits high (~1-2k) when it crits (luck based), Explosive Entrance crits hit ~ 2k, leaving about 5k for the skill you got hit by. All crits of course. What toolbelt skill did 5k damage to you? And what was your build? Should you have been able to avoid it with teleport/evade/stealth spam like most thieves? Or we could take your reasoned approach and call for class deletions: https://imgur.com/a/ET3DyBY You mostly troll post, so which will it be?

This would make sense if: 1) initiative was scarce 2) abusive skills were all high cost like shortbow teleport 3) every action required initiative 4) skills didn't often combine damage+mobility/defense, and 5) you actually needed to do everything at once (despite being the one in control of the fight). Stealing, utilities, and dodging don't require initiative, allowing Thieves to spam their abusive skill of choice and still be able to reset whenever required with a stealth dodge / teleport / stealth utility etc. Skills like Shadowshot combine mobility, high damage, and defense (blind) all in one. And if you dictate when you can engage/disengage, having to make tough choices on offense/defense only really matters if you play poorly and get caught out--assuming you can't get saved by one of your non-initiative utilities/dodges. Further, Thief isn't alone in it's "resource" to limit skill use. Holo, Mesmer, Necro, Rev, Warrior, Firebrand etc. all have their resource mechanics that often come WITH cooldowns attached to limit abuse. You misunderstand. The Engi's ability to do damage (with this build) is permanently hindered by its ability to stealth/run, unlike a Thief. Go ahead, try to make a viable damage build with this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PeAUsQ2FjjdiL4GAA-e If those skills don't suit you, be my guest and go wild. Mimic Thief's ability to engage/disengage frequently while also being able to regularly do burst damage. Remember, superspeed isn't as good as stealth + teleports. Sure, let's swap over to the defensive side. Sustain only matters in small, extended fights or large ones without focus (i.e. low tier play). Avoiding death is king and the best sustain in the game is a quick reset.

I felt bad saying "all" after the fact because you don't deserve to be included in triggered category. Some people are capable of reason still, and your frustration with the constant threads is understandable. That being said... Thief has always had high mobility. The bound p/p builds are maybe the only exception that comes to mind. True "low mobility" nowadays is like...swiftness only (e.g. my core engi build). Having more mobility than your opponent lets you dictate when fights start and end. That deserves lower damage. Exchanging mobility for permanent stealth + blind spam doesn't change that you deserve lower damage. It just trades one degenerate mechanic for another. You should not be surprised or annoyed if people are complaining back and forth if you're simply swapping between the two. Specter was a somewhat interesting changeup, with less stealth and more presence in fights. It still can teleport half way across the map with ease. Unless that's changed, it deserves lower damage. Here's a challenge: Show me a Thief build that doesn't dictate when/how fights start/end and can't evade half the time, and I'll tell you that build deserves high damage. The same goes for any class. For example, on Engi I can mimic Thief mobility + stealth with Rocket Boots, Elixir S, Bomb Kit, and Sneak Gyro. Guess how effective that build is? I'm certainly not spamming ranged 6-8k bombs on people lol. If I was, that's fair grounds for complaint.

Yeah that's true. If the extremes were taken in (on all classes), we'd see much more flexibility in what builds can be played, hard counters would be less egregious, people would have more fun etc. The devs do make a lot of questionable decisions (I'll never forget that balance discord leak). But it can't hurt to voice some discontent now and then, maybe steer their thought toward greener pastures?

Ah good. It's probably impossible to do so perfectly, if that's your argument. That's just reality. You can certainly attempt to maintain good balance (defense / offense tradeoffs, etc.) better than the current state. That's 100% possible, even within the context of this game, and you can watch old gameplay videos to prove it. Count out loud the vulnerable windows / look at the damage then vs now. The current state is a joke.