Feanor.2358

Sad. I didnt say its a good thing but i prefer it over farming faceroll modes and getting the most prestigious gear in the game. I find the idea that there are people who would consider gear "prestigious" to be sad on the face of it. There is no "prestige" in having anything in the game. Prestige is a matter of perception. There will always be prestige in having specific items, be it in the game or in real life. It's irrelevant if you find it sad or not, it's just a fact of life.

You realize these are already irrelevant for active raiders, don't you? I have over 10k magnetite shards and no real use for them. What difference does it make if I get more or less of them?In that case, if the rewards aren't a factor to you, there won't be a point to do easy mode at all, right? If you don't care easy mode gives rewards in less quantities (because you already have too much of them), then why would you want to do easy mode encounters at all, unless you simply didn't want to experience the normal mode?(remember, the "less time" question was about reward acquisition speed, not boss kill speed) Because there are other rewards too - exotics, ascended, gold, etc.Well, obviously those in quantity would be different as well. It's not like anyone ever suggested that both normal and easy mode should have identical rewards in both quality and quantity. And to prevent encouraging people to do both modes to maximize drops (which might cause too much pressure), we could borrow the idea from fractals and make the normal mode award both rewards.Do you think there would be enough players interested in this mode, under these assumptions? Enough to justify the development time and balance out the complaints about delaying the new releases?

You realize these are already irrelevant for active raiders, don't you? I have over 10k magnetite shards and no real use for them. What difference does it make if I get more or less of them?In that case, if the rewards aren't a factor to you, there won't be a point to do easy mode at all, right? If you don't care easy mode gives rewards in less quantities (because you already have too much of them), then why would you want to do easy mode encounters at all, unless you simply didn't want to experience the normal mode?(remember, the "less time" question was about reward acquisition speed, not boss kill speed)Because there are other rewards too - exotics, ascended, gold, etc.

You realize these are already irrelevant for active raiders, don't you? I have over 10k magnetite shards and no real use for them. What difference does it make if I get more or less of them?

And as for players wanting more challenging content and asking for raids? Yes, there was a small group of players asking for that, but that was it. Most players were content with the current (then) difficulty levels, and either didn't care, or didn't want more challenge. What they wanted was more content. Accessible content. Obviously, although in lesser amounts, like reduced LI amounts, and requiring multiple clears to unlock the same achievements that clear first-time on the normal mode bosses. Then what's the incentive for doing normal mode when you can farm easy mode with no risk and with less time?How did "multiple clears" turn into "less time"? You do remember that there's that tiny little mechanic called "weekly lockout", right? We dont have numbers to say wether the group tht wanted hardcontent was small or notIt's not even important if it is small or not. Adding the harder content was just this - adding a type of gameplay which didn't exist before, giving a particular group of players something to do. As opposed to adding more easy content in a game where 90% of the content is already easy.

I get why mount adoption licences aren't a problem. Which is another way of saying that you don't see the problemIt would be another way of saying that had I not given argumentation. I, however, did. It is very sweet of you to try and dismiss valid points as mere opinions, but I'm not buying such cheap tricks.

I get why mount adoption licences aren't a problem. At least they aren't when compared with BL chests. All the reasoning given by the community applies to BL chests as well, except worse. Because adoption licences have a hard cap on the maximum price, BL chests don't. Yet people kept complaining again the non-issue. I honestly found the whole drama hilarious. Now that we have more adoption licenses? I'll buy the random ones again, once I get bored with my current Branded set. But ANet did give an option to buy specific skins to address some unhappy players and squeeze out more profit. Price segmentation and all that. So you see, they adapt. They experiment, they try different things, they keep what's working and they change what isn't. And yet, they have no plans to address the "issue" discussed here. Makes one wonder how much of an issue it really is. Or does it?

That's what you believe, "and yet it moves." Except it doesn't. The last we've heard of ANet was they have no plans of doing it. Must be reasons for that, don't you think? Some reason, yes, not necessarily a good one though. Riiiight. Business decisions made on a whim, huh? Somehow I fail to believe that. Again, not necessarily on a whim either, just also not necessarily the right decision to make. They thought loot boxes would be a good idea. In fall 2017. Loot - boxes And then they did it again a few months later! Never assume. Actually loot boxes were in the game since day 1, they're called Black Lion chests. And they apparently work well enough creating sales for the game. I recall last time BL keys went on sale there was a thread on reddit with people complaining about how they know they shouldn't, but they still buy them. These aren't assumptions, these are facts.

That's what you believe, "and yet it moves." Except it doesn't. The last we've heard of ANet was they have no plans of doing it. Must be reasons for that, don't you think? Some reason, yes, not necessarily a good one though.Riiiight. Business decisions made on a whim, huh? Somehow I fail to believe that.

That's what you believe, "and yet it moves." Except it doesn't. The last we've heard of ANet was they have no plans of doing it. Must be reasons for that, don't you think?

And nobody is arguing otherwise. We're just asking for something in addition to that. That's what you believe. Your request, however, adds nothing to the game. The essence of what you ask for already exists - instanced group content of lower difficulty. The rest what you perceive to be "an addition" is more or less cosmetic, in the sense it wears off in a fraction of the playthroughs this content is intended for. You're not arguing about a novelty. You're arguing about rewards.

No, if you read what the raid proponents say.. it all boils down to that single thing, they want their special loots to feel better then the peasant casuals. Lets get one thing very clear here, it's their Job to entertain me, that is why I pay them. It is not, nor shall it ever be, my job in this relationship. I do this for fun, and escapism, not work, not a job, not a duty, but frivolous mindless escapism. No.. I don't plan to "git gud" as I don't have the time or the give a kitten to turn this game into a work. You're right in that it IS their job to entertain you. You're missing the point however. I clearly said multiple times that not all content has to appeal to everybody and why that is perfectly fine. If something has a requirement you're not willing to commit to, your choice. Don't beg for them to remove that requirement for no reason other than you not wanting to put in any work. You can get things done with 30 minutes a day if said things are set up properly. Niche content that doesn't aim at the target audience is a massive failure, nothing else. Casuals can stay in their own lane and not demand everything to be casual friendly, despite 95% of the content being aimed at them. Let that last 5% aim for its own specific audience. Easy. Lets get things clear, 100% of this content is for people that can do Raids. That means, there is more content for you then anyone else. I don't see how that's fair. Lets get one thing very clear here, it's their Job to entertain me, that is why I pay them. There's your problem. You're not the only one paying. It's their job to entertain all of their customers, not just you personally. And because these customers all have their own preferences, it is not possible to make every single feature in the game be entertaining, or appeal, to everyone equally. Hence the need for different content catering to the desires for particular groups of players. Of course not all of it will match your own preferences. It was never the intent, and it never will be. Because your wishes aren't any more special than those of any other customer. And... wrong again. 100% of the content in this game is available and accessible to someone with the skills to do raids. That means, while we both may pay into the game, you directly get more content made for you. Now unless you spend directly more then I do to justify the additional content made just for you, that's just a bad customer service plan. Let me tell you a secret, we're not born with raiding superpowers. The skills you talk about? They're trained. By - surprise, surprise - raiding. So don't give me that load of dolyak crap. The game gives precisely the same options to each and every of its customers. It is our preferences, and ultimately our choices, which make our experiences different. You're not happy about something? Then change your choices. Simple. It's easier to complain on forums, I'll give you that. But you're not going to accomplish anything. Given they put this content in because people complained on the forums.. I'd say.. you're wrong again. Seems to be an ongoing trend with you.Wanna bet? :)

Let's rephrase people like the wiping in progression and the fact that this possibility existsAgain, most of the raiders don't really like that, and they do everything they can to minimize that possibility as much as possible. I mean, they may say they do like the possibility, but in truth it's only until it gets realized.The amount of those that really like the challenge, and the thrill of not being sure if they succeed or not, until the very last moment? It's very small. Way too small to sustain the mode.Mmm... there's something to this, but you're not giving the full picture. It is true that raiders (and gamers in general ) don't really want to fail. It's the most prominent reason for elitism and toxicity, after all. But they do like to get challenged. In a sense it's similar to track driving - you don't really want to crash. But you definitely do want to drive on the limit. Come to think of it, it also explains the way players focus on the meta. There's a certain strive for perfection, and the raids (or the racetracks) challenge you to perfect your performance under specific conditions. You could argue that's just me, but I don't think so. I see the same in my raider friends, and I see the same in my car enthusiast friends. And challenge is a huge, important part of it. There needs to be enough depth to it, enough intricacies to master, or it gets boring too fast. The devs recognize this, I think, and they're doing really well to provide fun and engaging fights for the people who seek just that. Of course, it's not for everyone. Just like not everyone goes to drive on a racetrack.

No, if you read what the raid proponents say.. it all boils down to that single thing, they want their special loots to feel better then the peasant casuals. Lets get one thing very clear here, it's their Job to entertain me, that is why I pay them. It is not, nor shall it ever be, my job in this relationship. I do this for fun, and escapism, not work, not a job, not a duty, but frivolous mindless escapism. No.. I don't plan to "git gud" as I don't have the time or the give a kitten to turn this game into a work. You're right in that it IS their job to entertain you. You're missing the point however. I clearly said multiple times that not all content has to appeal to everybody and why that is perfectly fine. If something has a requirement you're not willing to commit to, your choice. Don't beg for them to remove that requirement for no reason other than you not wanting to put in any work. You can get things done with 30 minutes a day if said things are set up properly. Niche content that doesn't aim at the target audience is a massive failure, nothing else. Casuals can stay in their own lane and not demand everything to be casual friendly, despite 95% of the content being aimed at them. Let that last 5% aim for its own specific audience. Easy. Lets get things clear, 100% of this content is for people that can do Raids. That means, there is more content for you then anyone else. I don't see how that's fair. Lets get one thing very clear here, it's their Job to entertain me, that is why I pay them. There's your problem. You're not the only one paying. It's their job to entertain all of their customers, not just you personally. And because these customers all have their own preferences, it is not possible to make every single feature in the game be entertaining, or appeal, to everyone equally. Hence the need for different content catering to the desires for particular groups of players. Of course not all of it will match your own preferences. It was never the intent, and it never will be. Because your wishes aren't any more special than those of any other customer. And... wrong again. 100% of the content in this game is available and accessible to someone with the skills to do raids. That means, while we both may pay into the game, you directly get more content made for you. Now unless you spend directly more then I do to justify the additional content made just for you, that's just a bad customer service plan.Let me tell you a secret, we're not born with raiding superpowers. The skills you talk about? They're trained. By - surprise, surprise - raiding. So don't give me that load of dolyak crap. The game gives precisely the same options to each and every of its customers. It is our preferences, and ultimately our choices, which make our experiences different. You're not happy about something? Then change your choices. Simple. It's easier to complain on forums, I'll give you that. But you're not going to accomplish anything.

With the exception of dungeon skins - which belong to abandoned piece of content - all the "high-end" skins you can earn through gameplay require specific content. There are the backpacks, there are the weapons, there's the Luminescent armor, the chak and auric collections, the stellar and astral ones, the fractal ones, Aurora and so forth, and so forth. You can see the same approach used again and again, everywhere. It is used, because it works. That's the better way. Because playing a piece of content isn't dictated by a binary "like/dislike". There are nuances to that. You like certain things more than others. And it can even depend on your current mood. And there are other factors, too, rewards being part of it. Splitting the rewards in such a way encourages players to enjoy different content. It avoids reducing the game to a single farm. And by doing so, enables players to enjoy it for much, MUCH longer. Enabling all the rewards everywhere would only serve to make players burn out faster. That's why it isn't done. It doesn't matter if you make them require tons of time. If anything, it would only speed up the process, because the mere though of having to grind for months and years the same content you're already bored of will be off-putting. You might say "well, if you're bored then switch". But it's not so simple, because you'll often fall in the trap of the routine. You'll keep doing it long after the content in question long after you've lost the original excitement you had about it, because it got worn off gradually, in small steps. So small that you never realized it. Literally, there are no upsides to what you are suggesting. Oh, it seems like there are. But it's just a pipe dream.

Lets get one thing very clear here, it's their Job to entertain me, that is why I pay them. There's your problem. You're not the only one paying. It's their job to entertain all of their customers, not just you personally. And because these customers all have their own preferences, it is not possible to make every single feature in the game be entertaining, or appeal, to everyone equally. Hence the need for different content catering to the desires for particular groups of players. Of course not all of it will match your own preferences. It was never the intent, and it never will be. Because your wishes aren't any more special than those of any other customer.

This folks is why "Challenging" content is a myth, at some point it will become routine, lose all it's challenge and be nothing but a mindless easy grind. This is why any request for Challenging PvE content is just a veil by elitist and meta junkies to put in a means to stop players they feel are inferior to them from getting their precious prestige and best loots. Quite petty really when you see it for what it is, and what I have always called it out to be. The meta elitists did just as well excluding players they felt inferior before raids, in less challenging content. They do it in every single game, by the way. So again you're jumping to conclusions having absolutely zero reason for them. And... Wrong Again. They could not exclude people from the content itselfKek. TIL I can exclude players from the content itself. Where's the button in the UI that lets me specify how much dps you must clock on the golem before you can make a raid squad? :lol: :lol: :lol:

They're not quite the same, fractals are explicitly structured around the fractal level and instabilities, and the different tiers of fractals tie into those mechanics. Even then I'd probably say that FotM has one bracket too many, and T2 and T3 could comfortably be compressed into one bracket. That is why i put t2-t3 could have just been easy-hard mod. And structured around the same 'if' functions determining difficulty, mech and agony . But the role they play is to let you see and taste the content before you take deep breath and go to t4, you know most things, most mech, you know what to expect. you have experience of clearing content. You have grown over t2-t3 and want to do more challenging mod. It's those t2-t3s gave you that confidence and knowledge.So it's not wasted . Its just right, it's perfect to have. This doesn't scale to actual challenging content though. Playing the T4 version doesn't prepare you for the CM one.

This folks is why "Challenging" content is a myth, at some point it will become routine, lose all it's challenge and be nothing but a mindless easy grind. This is why any request for Challenging PvE content is just a veil by elitist and meta junkies to put in a means to stop players they feel are inferior to them from getting their precious prestige and best loots. Quite petty really when you see it for what it is, and what I have always called it out to be. The meta elitists did just as well excluding players they felt inferior before raids, in less challenging content. They do it in every single game, by the way. So again you're jumping to conclusions having absolutely zero reason for them.

Because currently it's the only place in the game to unlock certain rewards he seeks, and perhaps he also enjoys elements of the content, but not the various hassles that only the hard mode would entail. That may be the choice you'd make in his shoes, but it's apparently not the choice he made. You can't change that choice, all you can do is change the external forces so as to provide him with alternate options. Ok. Apparently not, in your case. Irrelevant to you, but I believe we've established that other players do exist. No, it's not irrelevant only to me. Other players have more or less the same cognitive abilities. The novelty of the content wears out very quickly for everyone. Let's say it's not one time, let it be ten times. It is still irrelevant in the long run. These pieces of content are designed to be played many more times that that. You're only looking at yourself, imagining the one perfect gameplay experience you would get from playing this. Look at the bigger picture. Imagine playing your easy mode raid for 250th time over. Would the theme really matter? The behaviors? The characters or the scenery? At this point it is all routine. You go there, you do this, then that. You know it by heart, you've done it time and again, you can do it with your eyes closed, figuratively speaking. Do you really think the theme matters at this point? You might actually believe so, but you're wrong. It doesn't.

You realize that beside the challenge, everything you listed here is a one-time feature, don't you? The same could be said about any content in the game, and yet plenty of people keep repeating it night after night. I have no concern whatsoever that an easy mode raid, with a worthwhile reward structure (again NOT as efficient as the harder mode) would have people farming it regularly for those rewards. They would enjoy the experience. Now, what about the rest of what I said? Not the point. Because these are one-time features, they're irrelevant in the long run. You're not getting a content of different theme or whatnot. You're getting a content of specific difficulty, with specific reward structure. Exactly what the fractals already offer.

You realize that beside the challenge, everything you listed here is a one-time feature, don't you?

See, Unlike you, I don't want to deprive you of anything, you can still have your difficult content, you can still have your legendary armor, you get all your baubles, and even more options, as no doubt you could also do some easy mode if the mood struck you, so, I don't need or want anything that you can't get to make me feel better. That is what separates our motives. I want to include you people and make the game fun for everyone, you want deny and deprive people of the rewards you feel that should be reserved just to you. As such there is nothing, petty or self serving about my motives, and you have openly admitted that you can't say the same. This method seems to open the raid mode to more people and the counter argument seems to be people don’t want the raid to open up to others. The counter-argument can be summarized to "it won't work". It's not that I don't want more people to raid. It's that I'm certain easy mode raids won't make that happen. That always the easy counter argument. You can say that about everything. The proof is in the pudding as they say. Yeah well, I've given the proof time and again. You can read it, it's in this thread. Only real proof is if they do it.As of now, ANet's actions and official statements are in line with my claims. I use stronger words, saying that easy mode raids would be either pointless or harmful, but the fact of matter is they don't develop these and said they have no plans of doing so. I believe that there are enough gamers who feel that way, especially in GW2's community, to support a game mode like this. I think you do too, which is why you're so desperate to prevent this mode from existing, because you worry that it will make it less convenient for you if these players have other options. I believe you. Meaning I believe you actually believe that, but I don't share this belief. Also, stick to actual arguments. You already have STIHL for all the ad hominem this thread needs, and more. Again, you're back to your dishonest position, because you know full well that this is definitely not what we're asking for. Oh really? You're asking for "easy mode raids" that aren't easier than the normal-mode ones? I fail to see what you're asking for, then. @STIHL as well:Yes, yes. It's been brought time and again. But you fail to see the bigger picture. It's not about the preferences of the other players. Players adapt to the situation. The vast majority of the raiders like to raid, but a poorly balanced reward structure will force them to adapt, regardless of their preferences. The idea that they will stick to what they like is a pretty illusion, but it won't work. Inevitably some will be drawn to the easier rewards, because there are always players who are mostly interested in the rewards. This thread being a prime example. This will already increase the average waiting times, which will drive more players to switch, snowballing the process. Note that the process happens as I describe it without a single unhappy raider. Therefore, your conclusion "if players switch then that's what they prefer* is baseless. You're either missing the whole point of my objection, or you're misinterpreting it on purpose.

See, Unlike you, I don't want to deprive you of anything That's your own conviction. Mine is that you will deprive me of something, regardless if you realize this or not. Oh dear how mean of me.. so tell me.. outside of self serving ego stroking, what would I be depriving you of? Possibly the opportunity to play raids at all, by starving them of the required playerbase. This tells me that you think everyone that currently does raids hates them, and only does them for the loot, how sad. If that is really the case, then Raids really need to be reworked anyway.Trying to twist my words yet again? No, I think nothing of the sort, I said it directly on multiple occasions and I've given reasons for it. That you ignore everything you don't like isn't my problem.

See, Unlike you, I don't want to deprive you of anything, you can still have your difficult content, you can still have your legendary armor, you get all your baubles, and even more options, as no doubt you could also do some easy mode if the mood struck you, so, I don't need or want anything that you can't get to make me feel better. That is what separates our motives. I want to include you people and make the game fun for everyone, you want deny and deprive people of the rewards you feel that should be reserved just to you. As such there is nothing, petty or self serving about my motives, and you have openly admitted that you can't say the same. This method seems to open the raid mode to more people and the counter argument seems to be people don’t want the raid to open up to others. The counter-argument can be summarized to "it won't work". It's not that I don't want more people to raid. It's that I'm certain easy mode raids won't make that happen. That always the easy counter argument. You can say that about everything. The proof is in the pudding as they say.Yeah well, I've given the proof time and again. You can read it, it's in this thread.