[Making PVE viable again]

@Lilyanna.9361 said:I mean it still won’t solve anything. It didn’t do anything for dungeons, didn’t do anything for open world, didn’t do anything for AB metas. You assume you can avoid people wanting to be efficient but I see it even in OPEN WORLD. People will always be efficient whether you like it or not, easy or hard, small or large scale, your logic is not sound here. It’s a pipe dream.

it's not really a pipe dream since there are more people who won't play efficiently than will. that's just how the numbers are.

Here’s the best part, even if there are raids with dumb down mechanics you still will have to deal with rage timers. So even if avoid the people that make it ‘toxic’ you’ll only have yourselves to blame if you reach the rage timer and you all are still only like 3k dps. So how exactly will that help the players doing low dps when they still won’t be able to get any meaningful rewards or anything useful from the easy modes?? They wouldn’t even be able to do the content amongst themselves.

who says rage timers would be part of easy mode raids?

[Making PVE viable again]

@Obtena.7952 said:No, easy mode has nothing to do with it. People are still going to want to optimally play an easy mode.

like i said before, with easy mode there's going to be an influx of players who will play it casually, drowning out the noise of anyone who wants to play optimally in easy mode.

EDIT: removed a comment that, upon reflection, didn't really fit reality.

[Making PVE viable again]

@Aridon.8362 said:Public strikes exist. They are lore heavy. Nobody does them.

because they're difficult, and not the same thing as easy raid mode.

[Making PVE viable again]

@Linken.6345 said:There is nothing they need to fix you can fix it yourself by playing with likeminded people.If there are to few people who think like you maybe you are the one that need to change?

playing with likeminded people would be the solution if there were an easy mode. but there isn't. difficulty invites toxicity.

and there are a lot of players who think like me, I'm not the only one. there have been countless threads asking for easy mode raids because they want to experience the content too AND not have to deal with toxic raiders.

[Making PVE viable again]

@Obtena.7952 said:Sure they could ... we could dream up ALL sorts of ideas of how Anet could fix it ... BUT

That doesn't change what I said ... EVEN with an easy mode, you STILL need to respect other people's ideas about how they want to play the game if you want that respect back for how you want to play the game.

sure, as long as those people don't hold toxic elitist attitudes that, by definition, don't respect other people.

... and if you think an easy mode will rid you of people who want to play optimally ... you just haven't given it much thought.

i have given it a ton of thought, and an easy mode would make it far less likely to bump into people that want to play it optimally because the sheer number of people who could access raids would overwhelm any small number of optimal players that would want to do normal mode.

[Making PVE viable again]

@Obtena.7952 said:No, you missed the point entirely ... the toxic elitism coming from the guy that is being told he can't play on that team ... because his ideas of how to play are an imposition on those of the team. Playing how you want isnt' about everyone just accepting how you want to play, regardless of the impact it has on them. YOu can play how you want and if you truly understand that, you will understand and ACCEPT why you aren't wanted on those teams.

like i said, arenanet can fix the toxicity issues by making an easy mode. the sheer difficulty of the raids invites elitist toxicity because it's no longer about playing how you want, it becomes necessary to fulfill requirements and that by it's very nature invites toxicity.

[Making PVE viable again]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@castlemanic.3198 said:

@"Linken.6345" said:But your not excluded from the content you can go in right now and do it, just gather 9 of your none toxic mates and wack away at it.

And I have done that in the past. also are you acknowledging that you're toxic? cause that would be great, would solve a lot of issues

Manchester United F.C is not being toxic becouse I cant join them to play soccer, I dont pass the minimum bar to qualify for the team.So then people in raid groups are not toxic either just becouse you dont happen to pass the bar they set for themselfs.

there's a massive difference between professional sports leagues and raiding in a video game, and you know it. that's a really disingenuous argument. it's also whataboutism which i don't engage with.

Wait ... no one is toxic because they have a way they want to play ... that's the whole philosophy the game is built on. The only toxic that occurs is when someone tells YOU how you must play.

and that includes-

And no, that doesn't include joining a team that wants specific people on it and them kicking you off because they don't want you, for whatever reason. If play how you want is going to work in the game, EVERYONE has to respect how EVERYONE ELSE wants to do that.

but it does include it. that is the essence of the toxic elitist. that you don't get to play with them and are thus excluded from the mode. there's a difference between a toxic attitude and a normal attitude and the way these toxic elitists do it IS toxic. i don't have a problem with raiders, i have a problem with toxic attitudes.

"No one is saying you can't play how you want, they are just saying you can't play how you want in THIS team".

and that is the essence of toxic elitism, the "you can't play on THIS team" part. exclusion of a mode via exclusion from any teams that play that mode. It's why players don't engage with raiding when the raiding scene is full of those players. you know what would reduce toxicity that the devs can do? easy mode raids. that way the toxic elitists have their own little corner where they can have fun and everyone else gets to play the easy mode raids and discover the content that way and not be forced to interact with the toxic elitists.

[Making PVE viable again]

@Linken.6345 said:But your not excluded from the content you can go in right now and do it, just gather 9 of your none toxic mates and wack away at it.

And I have done that in the past. also are you acknowledging that you're toxic? cause that would be great, would solve a lot of issues

Manchester United F.C is not being toxic becouse I cant join them to play soccer, I dont pass the minimum bar to qualify for the team.So then people in raid groups are not toxic either just becouse you dont happen to pass the bar they set for themselfs.

there's a massive difference between professional sports leagues and raiding in a video game, and you know it. that's a really disingenuous argument. it's also whataboutism which i don't engage with.

[Thank you for gift of a free cape!]

I never understood the fuss about capes. then I got this free one and I was like "alright I'm starting to get it".

thanks Anet for the free cape!

[100 Hours Sunk into Guild Wars 2 (A veteran MMORPG players takeaway)]

@Fallesafe.5932 said:

@"Speak.1065" said:Hey All!Yet I have not changed out a SINGLE piece of gear since I got a very cheap exotic set and weapon at lvl 80 (under 15g for each character). Considering all of this I asked myself a question this morning. "How is my character becoming any stronger from any of this?" The answer is simple, he isn't and neither are any of yours.

Exactly. And I don't see the point. There's nothing exciting or compelling about the game itself (there really isn't). What makes all activities in a game exciting or compelling are their connection to your character's progress. People who like this aspect of GW2 think that they're seeing through a "gear treadmill." But gear treadmills are life in the connection between work and reward.

You may not see the point, but many of us do. I've been playing this game since beta weekend 3 and I've loved almost every moment of it (apart from those early heart of thorns days shudder). the point is that the game ITSELF is fun and rewarding. the exploration itself is rewarding,

If we lived in some alternate reality where everyone completely owned their house/apartment, and had all food and essential items delivered to them every morning for free... I'll bet they wouldn't keep showing up to their jobs. And I feel exactly the same way about running these boring, 5-year old fractals for the 10,000th time, or dragging an anvil through the swamp of the raid community when I already have everything I need, and will never gain anything new through the efforts.

literally volunteering wouldn't be a thing if your theory was correct. which it's not. because people value true productivity and self actualization. in a world you describe, people would quit unrewarding jobs that overwork or underpay them and they'd do what they'd always loved to do, we see this with many universal basic incomes where the only people who stop working are teenagers and mothers who can now put their time into being teenagers or raising their family in the case of the mothers. everyone else LITERALLY became happier in these studies with just more access to money, because they felt valued, they worked harder and were more productive because they didn't have to worry about their house being taken away from them in case they had a medical emergency.

People would not edit wikis or play Minecraft for thousands of hours building to scale models of the Hogwarts castle in harry potter or other landmarks, fictional or real, if those tasks weren't in and of themselves rewarding. volunteering would cease to exist, but it continues to exist because people find the work itself is rewarding, that they're helping people is rewarding. the Minecraft players who make to scale models of everything? they find the game rewarding in and of itself, and can feel proud of their accomplishments, a thing that anybody CAN do in Minecraft, it's available to everyone who has the time and the patience. same with wiki editing, helping get the right information out is rewarding in and of itself, even if it may seem as trivial as a game wiki, people still take their free time to do it for the sake of others enjoyment.

just because you view the world cynically doesn't make your world view realistic.

Skins and achievements are busy work. I can't begin to understand why anyone would even log in for these "rewards."

you know what's ACTUALY busy work? gear treadmills. there's nothing inherently rewarding about them because they take the carrot and the stick approach and never give you the freakin carrot, especially for more casual players who may not have the time or the skill to play raids (or those that avoid raids because of toxic elitists).

I log in to this game because it's FUN. It's inherently rewarding for me to hop onto this world, even when i have nothing to do except ride around on my mount aimlessly, that's still fun for me. the skin rewards make them even more fun though, and the story is great and is always improving. so you may not see any need to play the game, but i and many others do and will continue to do so.

[Can't get into other MMOs after GW2]

i've been trying to get into other mmos but they just don't hold a candle to gw2 in my opinion. Everquest 2's combat isn't fun like gw2, just stand there and hit buttons until the thing dies, the story is meh, i even tried to play on the evil side to get a different story from what i'd usually choose but i can't play it for very long. i tried archage because the systems sound interesting but again, the leveling isn't fun and the story is meh. tried rift and that gripped me for a while but now it doesn't anymore. tried ESO and i found the combat to be alright but the story didn't pull me in either. i haven't felt invested in any game lately like I've been invested in gw2. I'm just eagerly awaiting each update and always trying to max out my masteries is a personal challenge that I've been having fun with. i love this game so much.

[Mount Skin - [Merged]]

@"Danikat.8537" said:

sorry to go off topic but can you share the dyes you used to get that look?

[What do you want for third expansion? - [Merged]]

What do I want from cantha? Two categories: realistic and SUPER OUT THERE FANTASY

realistic:A couple of new mounts, an underwater one and a multi friend mount (ideally carrying 4 other players so you can fit a whole party on your mount, but i'd be fine if it was just one or two extra players). maybe a combat mount. That would be a dream.

more tonics with combat abilities. maybe specifically skyscale with fire breath.

new playable race(s). tengu

I can't think of anything else with masteries, I look forward to the creativity of what arenanet will release

i expect new elite specs, i don't have any specific wants there

SUPER OUT THERE FANTASY:if you REALLY want wild, out-there ideas, ships! With cannons! and masteries tied to them.

Warclaws getting PvE masteries.

playable kodan and largos. for something REALLY out there playable wardens from the first game.

Combat mount, I know I've said it twice but I have no idea if it's realistic or not.

SPIDER MOUNT (I know why they didn't do it with the arachnophobia concerns, but imagine getting a mount with the same mechanics that the spider mount would have had, could be super cool, maybe a gecko or something)

Saltspray dragon mount (thanks woodenpotatoes for that suggestion).

and yeah i guess that's it for my wants. maybe went a little crazy with the super fantasy stuff but i don't really expect any of that to come to pass.

[Which living world chapters are worth getting most?]

If you want to max out core masteries, season 2 is your best bet for a few mastery points.

I totally recommend season 3 episode 1 because the ancient magics line eventually has an extra downed skill that goes on all level 80 characters and that's been very useful and super fun to have (I currently don't know if you need to unlock season 3 episode 4 to get that mastery or not).

for the skyscale you will unfortunately need every map, but to start you off get season 4 episode 6 to finish the story step to get the skyscale, season 4 episode 4 for the suns refuge bit that'll be required, and episode 1 or 2 of icebrood saga for the eternal ice shards that someone above recommended to get all the items you'll need. the very last step for the skyscale requires all the season 4 episodes so you can delay getting the entirety of season 4 for a while (unless I'm forgetting something).

[Analytics should not drive the direction of the game...]

i fought a single raid boss once and beat it with a pugwas it fun? yes, for the short while that I played it.would i play raids regularly? absolutely not.

the time requirement and necessary dedication is too much, the gear needed is beyond my reach, i'd be forced to play with up to 9 other players on their time schedules and, most importantly for me, i'd be forced to play builds that aren't fun for me. Raids will NEVER attract me because there's too much that i don't find fun about them.

You know what would get me to play raids?

easy difficulty.

To talk about WoW a minute, LFR is the only reason some people play raids at all because the reduced difficulty IS a challenge to them, with their imperfect gear and less than perfect skills and semi-okay rotation abilities. I don't play wow (I'd never pay for a subscription to any game), but if I did I'd do LFR and literally no other difficulty because there's a difference between challenge and difficulty. You can make something easy and have people be challenged by its complexity (example low health low damage boss with a large number of mechanics that daze or stun players) or make something difficult with minimal challenge (high health high damage bosses with minimal mechanics).

I like a challenge but I do NOT like difficulty. give me something I can puzzle over and find my way around or brute force through. I currently have sub-optimal builds that are FUN for me to play as, because I enjoy using swords and shields on a chronomancer with minimal illusions and a heavy focus on tanking and healing damage, that's FUN for me. That build would NEVER fly in a raid, or challenge mote fractal. I've soloed fractals with a build I found FUN on my necromancer, but i wouldn't be able to do the same on my mesmer. To some people, buildcrafting and min-maxing is fun, to me it's torture.

Literally the only way i'd give raids more than a single shot is if they had an easy mode.

[How would you all feel about a playable Orc Race?]

as someone who loves traditional fantasy stereotypes like orcs and elves, they don't have a place in guild wars 2 and the game would be much better off going with existing playable races like tengu, kodan and largos.

Also, i'd argue that charr don't fill most orc stereotypes, true there are some basic similarities but there are also enough differences that the charr feel unique, both culturally and visually. Ogres fill the orc void pretty much in every category except the skin colour.

I also really don't get OP's suggestion that just because charr are similar to dnd races means there's room for orcs. I'm attracted to games that provide unique races and cultures and guild wars 2 provides uniqueness to most other mmos that i'd ever take interest in. (Also warborn aren't anywhere near orcs from a visual standpoint, nor from a lore standpoint either if my limited knowledge of them is correct).

Face it OP, orcs don't have the popularity to make it to guild wars 2.

[Official Feedback Thread about Build and Equipment Templates]

Needless and predatory pricing on what should have been a victory for the playerbase.I will say that being able to share equipment between equipment templates was a pleasant surprise and a useful one for me, so thanks for that at least.But overall, needless and predatory pricing, part of a continuous pattern that the devs are pulling from the worst facets of the games industry to prey on so-called 'whales'. I want anet to thrive but there's a good way and a frigging terrible way to get money, and they've continuously chosen the terrible way for a long time now.

[[Merged] Oh cool you must buy more build slots]

@Cameryn.5310 said:

@"castlemanic.3198" said:I'll still play, buy expansions even, but the gemstore is becoming ridiculous, and everyone who is complaining has a right to complain.

Do they, though?

You yourself specifically state you've been "happy to put a lot of money into the game" and yet you have a problem here because you're getting build templates in game for free (regardless of an addon that was working or not) and need to put a LITTLE money into having more of them?

Shared equipment slots. Mount skins. Custom equipment. Harvesting flair. These are all the same as extra build template slots. It's just one more convenience or aesthetic perk that they're charging for. There's nothing ridiculous about Anet wanting, again, to PAY EMPLOYEE SALARIES WHILE YOU ENJOY A GAME FREE OF MONTHLY CHARGES.

You said it yourself, this is "making me decide to spend my money elsewhere." So do it. Don't buy stuff. Anet isn't forcing you to. You can enjoy the entire game without spending a dime on it, except the base game and expansion(s). Nobody's twisting your arm.

Ah fun, someone who's taking a quote out of context!

As is easily verifiable, what i said exactly was"even more predatory monetization, BOOO!""this was needlessly monetized, anet has been putting more needless monetization into this game and it really just makes me sad."

So take your faulty logic elsewhere, it's not a singular complaint about this one individual aspect of monetization, but rather anets seeming policy at trying to excessively monetize every front they can (rng mount licences and needlessly expensive select licenses, doubling up on black lion chests with the introduction of the knife tail gang, build templates, character bound equipment templates) and doing so in increasingly egregious and predatory ways.

Like I said and exactly like you note, I was happy to give arenanet money. I love the cosmetic things, I used to like that some of the conveniences exist, and I do want arenanet employees to get paid (ya know, by buying gems and expansions, like I have happily done), but arenanet are simply abusing their customers with what they're asking for in some cases. Build template monetization wasn't even the start of this horrible trend (mount licences are what got my attention, but the trend goes back to 2012 at launch with character bound bag slot expansions and Black Lion Chests). If you took out all of the abusive stuff in the store (including some of the stuff i've gotten and would give back in an instant), I'd happily start giving my money again. Because i'd feel respected.

Because it's not about arenanet 'twisting my arm' into buying things (in a sense, the rng stuff is absolutely predatory and prey on vulnerable people), it's about arenanet's money grubbing department not respecting its customer base. the devs who make the content and the stories don't deserve this mess, it's the people who let greed get in the way of common sense within arenanet that actually deserve the complaints and the anger. But we dont know who exactly is responsible for it so the devs as a whole get the flak. If I could individually pay the devs who create the content and make sure none of it went to the greedy people, I absolutely would. because the money grubbers don't deserve a dime when they pull stunts like this, like they have done for a while now and, if we're honest, from the games launch.

Just because people are noticing the issues now doesn't mean the problem didn't exist before. But we are noticing it now and our voices deserve to be heard when the devs do predatory stuff like this.

[[Merged] Oh cool you must buy more build slots]

These are my feelings on the matter:Build templates, yay!equipment tabs which holds gear like bag slots, YAY!even more predatory monetization, BOOO!

this was needlessly monetized, anet has been putting more needless monetization into this game and it really just makes me sad. I've been happy to put a lot of money into this game, but this increasingly blatant and needless cash grab is making me second guess my past decisions and is making me decide to spend my money elsewhere.

I'll still play, buy expansions even, but the gemstore is becoming ridiculous, and everyone who is complaining has a right to complain.

[Spending Money Is Supporting The Game]

I've spent money on this game. I'm not ashamed of the money I've spent even though it's been a lot relatively speaking. I'm glad to continue supporting this game with real money and I am actually excited about the future, Icebrood saga and whatever comes afterwards.

I hate the lootboxes, they're predatory. But otherwise I'm fine with spending money on this game even if the developers choose to spend that money on other projects. I have confidence in Arenanet, even if many don't.

[UK Officials Say Loot Boxes Are Gambling]

Lootboxes are predatory by their very nature. Something should be done about them, including BLC. All the 'they're not as bad as others' and 'personal responsibility' things are simply a distraction from the fact that they are predatory.

[Why Loot Box Black Lion Chest Is Good For The Game]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:I feel like I just read something written up by an EA representative.

Also, Guild Wars 2 is rated T for Teen. In addition to that, there are cases of people mentioning their 8-year old kids playing the game from time to time. So yes, we do have 12-16 year olds here.

just going to quote this because the huge reach that's being made in the OP is too much for me to put into words.

[In game appreciation mail - No Items Included]

I didn't even get a message, so it doesn't seem like it reached everyone that it should have.

however there was the heart of thorns shirt in the gemstore that i could claim for free.

[Free RNG items]

@"yann.1946" said:So the mount licenses don't fall in this category then?

They absolutely do, as I mentioned in a previous post. EDIT on this specific part: I mentioned this in a comment on this thread to someone else, so I don't blame you for missing it).

And my point still stands as while I agree that Lootboxes are worse that doesn't change the fact that sales also prey on the impulse buyers.

So that is why the "to protect those with impulsive tendencies" is an incomplete motivation. Because you have been using special pleading to not have to include sales.

It's not special pleading to point out that you can spend a near limitless amount of money on RNG items and still not get the thing you're looking for, which is vastly different from sales. That's kind of an obvious fact.

This is not whataboutism because I was merely pointing out a consequence of your motivation.

It absoutely is whataboutism, because you're distracting from the current thing that needs to be discussed.

My issue is that your reason sounds good but is unrefined and can be used to argue almost every enjoyable activity is bad.

Only if you decide to argue fallaciously about it.

So that is why the motivation "protect those with impulsive tendencies" is an incomplete motivation. You should add restrictions in your motivations a priori or decide their is another reason to do so.

Yeah, the restriction is "remove only RNG items to prevent a near limitless amount of money from being spent on them in order to protect those with impulse control issues and gambling addictions.

That's the motivation that I've mentioned before.

And asked if you are in favour of both the consequences of your motivation.

I'm in favour of dismantling the current capitalistic environment that allows unethical practices like these to emerge, which does include limited-time sales and false limited availability to prey on impulsive spenders as well, because the whole late-stage capitalist environment is destructive to the human race, to all species on the planet and the climate itself while the rich at the top of the money food chain don't actually care about anything that's happening and won't move to do anything to help with basic human needs like food, water, shelter etc. unless they start losing money because of it. Most of the domestic issues that we face and many of the international ones (and that pretty much runs true for every country no matter where you live) come down to money and power, people are exploited for the sake of financial games and that does come down into every industry, games included as we can see with our favourite game here (black lion chests, mount licenses, the knife tail gang thing, i'd even go so far as to include ecto gambling etc.)

Gaming addiction and gambling addictions can and do adversely affect people and can even ruin lives, and there aren't enough systems put in place to protect them or help them with the issues they face, the reasons for which fall under a significantly larger umbrella of the current socio-econimic and political status quo and how the efforts made in preventing abuse don't go far enough because the whole system itself is set up to encourage abuse unless that specific form of abuse is caught. The reason why i didn't want to dive into this is because you really can go to the whole system when talking about issues like this. But dealing with the RNG issues can be dealt with right now and protect at least some people right now. and you're right, in a broader context trying to not deal with sales when talking about RNG issues is incomplete, but if we keep going up that ladder, nothing will get dealt with.

So the quickest thing that can be done right now, to help people right now, is to remove RNG loot. That doesn't mean there isn't other things that need to be done, but this is why whataboutism isn't helpful (and it is the tactic you are using), because we can get distracted by looking at the whole picture and forgetting that the minutiae is important too, and that there are things that can be done immediately to deal with specific issues while we try and fix the system as a whole too.

EDIT: also i think i'm done with this conversation. I don't have the energy to keep up this discussion and I have other things that require my time and energy.

[Free RNG items]

@yann.1946 said:I agree that that is the endpoint of this argument. Which is exactly why I am against the total deletion of RNG items in the gem store. It would cause way to much of a shift in fundamental rewardstructure.

And? It would be a good thing if it protects people with impulse control and addiction issues.

My last point was that sales are also a way to cash in on impulsive buyers, artificial scarcity to for example. So if youre reason for removing rng items is protecting impulsive buyers, sales should go to. That is the logical conclusion of that motivation.

No it isn't. The logical conclusion is only the removal of RNG items from the gemstore. That's it. It's fallacious to conflate the issue to then include sales because sales are a one time perchase, wherease RNG items have the capability of doing is affecting those with impulse control to purchase more and more of an endless loop of RNG items in order to maybe possibly get a single item, an item which they may spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars in order to try and achieve that item. Sales are a single purchase of an item you know you'll get. Not the same caliber.

Mmo's are notoriously for being addictive. So to protect the people who get easier addicted. Either deletion or restriction of mmo's is nessecary.

Whataboutism (which is the tactic you're using here) doesn't remove the discussion at hand, it's a tactic used to distract from the discussion at hand. While gaming addiction an MMOs is an issue that needs to be talked about, this isn't the time or place for it because that's not what this discussion is about.