[Relic of Fireworks graphical effect.]

Please remove Relic of Fireworks graphical effect, it's really annoying to see it every time the relic bonus gets triggered..

[Poll: Do you have more or less fun in the game because of relics?]

I really like the Relic system, because it gives you more flexibility and build personalization opportunities, BUT there are a lot of missing Relics: old Pack and Fireworks 6th tier bonus got completely changed for no reasons, instead of transfering it on the relative Relic, the same happend for other 6th tier old bonuses.

Talking about power Relics, here Fireworks Relic seems to be the best option for almost every power build, this should be reworked a bit. And please remove Fireworks visual effet, that is soo annoying.

[Relic of the Thief bugs.]

On 8/23/2023 at 1:06 PM, SehferViega.8725 said:

All the skills that don't trigger the relic of the Thief bonus damage effect:

-Tactical Strike

-Infiltrator's Strike

-Flanking Strike

-Larcenous Strike

-Backstab

Playing a bit I've found these ones, all tested in WvW.

Still bugged..

[Latest Death's Judgment change is actually a nerf]

On 8/23/2023 at 2:32 PM, Jijimuge.4675 said:

How so, with Maleficent Seven in PvE?

As far as I'm aware (correct me if I'm wrong) the effect of Malice is multiplicative - the below assumes that this is the case.

Prior to this change, the power coefficient of DJ was 1.65.  7 stacks of M7 ups the damage by 7x25% = 175%.  An increase of 175% is a mult of 2.75.  This equates to a final power coefficient of 4.5925 (=2.75x1.65)

After this change, the power coefficient is 2.67.  7 stacks of M7 ups damage by 7x10% = 70%, which is a mult of 1.7.  The final power coefficient in that case is 4.539 (=1.7x2.67)

That's not exactly a huge downgrade...

If DJ is hitting for significantly less than it used to, that could be a bug, or at least might mean that the in-game values don't match the patch notes

Yeah, my fault:  in PvE base damage got upgrade by 61,8%  (2.67 / 1.65= 1.618), while Malice bonus damage got nerfed from +175% to +70%, that means (2.75 / 1,7 = 1,617 = 61,7%).

[Latest Death's Judgment change is actually a nerf]

On 8/23/2023 at 8:32 AM, KrHome.1920 said:

Patch Note:

• Reduced damage bonus per malice to 10% in all game modes.

According to:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Malice

Death's Judgement had a 25% mutiplier per stack before. This was one of the key reasons why deadeye was broken in smallscale wvw (7x 25% = busted). This nerf might actually have fixed it as even with the base multiplier buff

• Death's Judgment: Increased power coefficient from 1.65 to 2.67 in PvE and from 1.11 to 1.339 in PvP and WvW

the maximum damage potential should be lower than before - especially in the competitive modes.

In competitive modes the bonus damage per Malice stack was 15%, not 25%. 

[Latest Death's Judgment change is actually a nerf]

They wanted to make Rifle playable on Daredevil (because on Core and Specter it has no sense) so they nerfed Malice bonus damage and they increased base damage.

They reduced Malice bonus damage from 25% per Malice stack to 10% in PvE and from 15% per Malice stack to 10% in PvP/WvW, increasing base damage by 60% in PvE and  20% in PvP/WvW.

The damage lost in PvE, if you have Maleficent Seven is huge..

[Relic of the Thief bugs.]

All the skills that don't trigger the relic of the Thief bonus damage effect:

-Tactical Strike

-Infiltrator's Strike

-Flanking Strike

-Larcenous Strike

-Backstab

Playing a bit I've found these ones, all tested in WvW.

[Relic Bugs (Definitive Documentation)]

Relic of the Thief damage bonus is not triggered by the following Thief sword skills: 

-Tactical Strike

-Infiltrator's Strike

-Flanking Strike

-Larcenous Strike.

And by main Dagger skill Backstab.

Tested in WvW.

[Unofficial 2/3/2023 Balance Patch Preview For Thief Discussion!]

39 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Tbh, Daredevil loss of unblockable is good for me. I hate daredevil DP maniacs.

And besides, core thief is just more skillful in WvW with SD. If you play SD daredevil you suck lmao

 

With new updates, SD core would be replaced by SD Daredevil, if you want to play with Sword.
With 1200 range and 25 seconds Steal, Daredevil is a better option (in everything) than Acrobatics.

[ANET please also give lower CD for Withdraw]

20 seconds Withdraw it means 26'215 healing, 5 dodges and 5 condi clean every 100 seconds.
With the new updates you would get 20'972 healing, 4 dodges and 8 conditions cleaned every 100 seconds.

 

5 hours ago, Kiza.1823 said:

 

I don't want have more of a reason to rely on Hide in Shadows or some SA based build for sustain please. 

 

Same. They are pushing thieves more and more into Shadow Arts and Stealth. Also the Swipe/Steal change on Daredevil is going into this direction: no unblockable Swipe would only mean more time in stealth waiting for the end of the block skills.

[February 14 Balance Update Preview]

1 hour ago, FelsPinguin.5902 said:

With the Changes to Thief tricks. Has lesser haste ( https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lesser_Haste#WvW,PvP ) from burst of agility been forgotten in the cooldown reduction?

 

Yes, it has been "forgotten".

[How to counter perma-stealth 4-shot-kill rifle deadeye?]

1 hour ago, kai.5149 said:

 

 

This one is my favorite skilled play in wvw so far xDDD

 

I can't get why posting a 4 years old video that's not true anymore. 

If that was actual, I would be the first one to ask DE's damage nerf, but that was before power damage nerf update.

[How to counter perma-stealth 4-shot-kill rifle deadeye?]

On 2/7/2023 at 3:34 PM, kai.5149 said:

Thief is just too forgiving compared to EVERY other profession in wvw. That should be fixed, if the thief fails it should die like every other class there is, and not be given free out of jail card to come like a fly over and over again

 

Before ele, mesmer, ranger, engi, ecc.. die, they need to fail 10 times more than thieves.

Go try by yourself: take old Daredevil build based on interrupts and dodges, then go fighting.

Interrupt your opponent, dodge all his best skill and combo, make him fail and fail again.. and when at the end you will die, come back on forum and tell us which class is more forgiving. XD

 

Or play Deadeye. In my roaming experience, 90% of Deadeyes are trash and free kills. If you think that Deadeye is so OP and forgiving, go play it against good players that know how to play their class and counter it.
(of course this doesn't mean that DE is weak, DE is really strong, but you can play against it).

 

[How to counter perma-stealth 4-shot-kill rifle deadeye?]

2 hours ago, kai.5149 said:

You seemingly havent entered wvw roaming in quite some time ? there are primarily de spamming 1 skill and porting around and there is no counter to that, so the rock-paper-scissors argument is also invalid.

 

Nothing can kill a de with at least half a brain who can kite for days

Core Thief and Daredevil have no problems in facing DE.
 

Other classes and spec too can face a DE, if the player has a brain, instead of panicking.

[Unofficial 2/3/2023 Balance Patch Preview For Thief Discussion!]

7 hours ago, Chips.7968 said:

Best build for what, roaming? dueling other s/d thieves? fighting outnumbered fights, pvp, pve, raids, fractals?

 It's being buffed as well as "nerfed", as tricksters is now removing 2 condis per trick as offset.

So basically withdraw has longer cooldown than it did, as does daggerstorm. 

 

If you open it you can see it's a WvW build, so it's for roaming, duelling and fighting outnumbered (not many opponents 1vs2 or 1vs3, but 1vs3 it's really hard, you can do it against some classes or noob players XD).

You can play it in PvP too, but it's out of meta because the damage there is really low compared to WvW.
PvE, Fractal and Raids are not my business, and nobody go there with Sword Daggers builds.

20 seconds Withdraw it would mean 26'215 healing, 5 dodges, 50 seconds of Vigor and 5 condi clean every 100 seconds.
Now you'll get 20'972 healing, 4 dodges, 40 seconds of Vigor and 8 condi clean every 100 seconds. How can you call it if not  a nerf?
Considering that you can easily clean conditions with Infiltrator's Strike (1), Shadow Step (3) and Signet of Agility (3), the +1 condi clean "buff" is just a joke and you really do not need it. So it's a fake buff and a strong nerf.

I hope it would be clearer now.

[Withdraw base cooldown in WvW/PvP.]

8 hours ago, DeceiverX.8361 said:

While I agree, the truth of the matter is they don't really want core specs to be good as otherwise people won't buy expansions.

 

I agree but core builds (and I'm talking for every class) should be at least playable, with a "different flavour" compared to the elite ones.

 

Swipe and Trickster help Core Thief and Daredevil to be different with different playstyles.
They are going, imho, in the wrong direction pushing thieves into Shadow Arts + Stealth builds, nerfing everything else, like Withdraw and like they did with Acrobatics Instant Reflexes and Hard to Catch. 
At the same time they complain about Stealth and Shadow Meld is too strong because it removes Revealed.. it seems to me they are doing casual changes without any plan or idea how to balance Thief.

[Unofficial 2/3/2023 Balance Patch Preview For Thief Discussion!]

29 minutes ago, Chips.7968 said:

 

*REALLY* surprised around trickster complaints; did anyone really run it? I've never used it despite having up to 4 tricks in utilities on some builds. 

 

Best core S/D build nowaday runs Trickster.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAwiVlNUw6ScXdttwGZnOMTqrVA-zVZYBR3hUpYo7wmDSocaKKaLB6rAyMEiIQrIgU7SMiigU7RCo12rhCnRAA-w
 

It's a really good and balanced build, not to strong nor too weak, with good damage, decent condi clean and really good mobility.

Trickster was a must have because it gives you 1 condi clean and reduce the base cooldown of Withdraw, Roll for Initiative and Dagger Storm.

What will happen after the new "balance patch" will be that people will run Daredevil instead of Acrobatics, because of the new 1200 range and 25sec cooldown Steal on DD and Bountiful Theft over Trickster. Core S/D will be out of meta definitely.
Here is not a problem of class nerf, they are just changes that make Daredevil a better version of every core thief builds and will make Daredevil playstle more similar to core thief, losing its brawler flavour. 

Can we adapt? Sure.
But gameplay will lose a viable option and some fights will be less fun.

[February 14 Balance Update Preview]

1 hour ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

The elite specializations aren't "supposed" to be better than core classes.

 

They should be better than core classes in something that should be "specific", not in everything, otherwise you will just kill build diversity and fun.

 

Talking about Thief that is my main class:

Daredevil should be a better brawler than core thief and less related to stealth and unnoticed gameplay tattics. This is partially true now, with Swipe/Steal differences.
When Daredevil will get 1200 Steal back, it will be a better version of core thief in everything. That's not a good way to develop the game IMHO.

 

Specter must be more support and survability oriented than core thief and Deadeye should be more focused on fire weapons (gaining some bonus for pistols too like it happen with rifle Silent Scope).

[Roll the CD decrease for Withdraw taken with trickster into Withdraw (20 Seconds). Don't balance based on "this skill is used so it is prob OP." Think about why they're used.]

11 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Withdraw is a trick. It is not getting its cd reduced by the 5 seconds trickster reduces it by per the incoming patchnotes. 

 

make withdraw 20 secs baseline. Thanks~ 

I've made the same post. 

Core Thief  S/D build, about nobody complain and that is really fun, needs 20 seconds Withdraw to stay alive in this meta.

Core thieves can't have only one playable healing skill (Hide in Shadow). 

 

[Withdraw base cooldown in WvW/PvP.]

12 minutes ago, Bunny.9834 said:

I hate these CD reduction changes... 

They deliberately left the ones that people use and left them with longer cooldowns. Now Daggerstorm will have longer CD too. 

Yeah, I mean, they can remove the CD reduction traits, but then you need to balance all the skills related, not only three of them (same for Signets of Power).

Withdraw is a must have for every core thief who doesn't run Shadow Arts, because of Trickster. 

[Withdraw base cooldown in WvW/PvP.]

Trickster no longer will reduce the cooldown of Trick skills.

Caltrops, Haste and Roll for Initiative get their base cooldowns reduced, Withdraw also needs to get its base cooldown reduced in WvW and PvP to 20 seconds, like it happens now when you play Trickster.

 

Roll for Initiative reduction Initiative gain (from 6 to 4) is a huge nerf for a class that struggle with skills Initiative cost, Withdraw 25 seconds base cooldown it would be too much in exchange of a Trickster +1condi clean, considering that Thief has no problem of condi cleaning.

20 seconds Withdraw it means 26'215 healing, 5 dodges and 5 condi clean every 100 seconds.
With the new updates you would get 20'972 healing, 4 dodges and 8 conditions cleaned every 100 seconds.

[February 14 Balance Update Preview]

On 2/3/2023 at 1:19 AM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Thief

 

Core

• Trickster: This trait no longer reduces the cooldown of trick skills. Increased the number of conditions removed from 1 to 2.

Daredevil

• Steal is no longer replaced by Swipe when the daredevil specialization is equipped.

Deadeye

• Shadow Meld: This skill no longer removes revealed in PvP and WvW.

 

 

 

What I can see for thief in competitive modes are just nerfs.

1. Give Withdraw a base cooldown reduction in WvW/PvP: 20 seconds cooldown, that is what actually Trickster do.
2. A Daredevil with Steal will just be a core Thief with better dodges. This way you are killing builds diversity and you are reducing the "space" for core thieves: who will play a core build, when Daredevil can do the same things, but better in most of the cases? Revert this change please.
3. Shadow Meld removing Revealed is a must have in WvW fights, where Deadeye is really squishy out of Stealth, revert this change in WvW.
4. The last patch updates are pushing Thieves more and more into Shadow Arts and Stealth, that is exactly what the players are not asking for.
5. You nerfed Acrobatics with the October 4th update, we still have completely useless traits that work really bad with other thieves skill like Hard to Catch, Instant Reflex, Uncatchable, Signets of Powers, ecc.. why don't you work on them seriously to make them playable instead of changing something that work well? How many people are using the "new" Hard to Catch and Instant Reflex after the last patch? Have you checked it? How many players will use the new Signets of Powers? I bet nobody, because it's just worse than the old one.

 

[Unofficial 2/3/2023 Balance Patch Preview For Thief Discussion!]

9 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

 

If you are running swipe, you do. That's the point... As a thief, you don't want to open within 600 range, cause you are right in front of your enemy already at that range...you might as well just have did a "/wave hello i'm here to kill u now tehe" 

 

The whole point of thief and opening on it, was to come to the enemy unnoticed... help kill a target, and move on to the next target as fast as possible. You walking up to me in 600 range to open with Swipe is the complete opposite of unnoticed and I can easily dodge your swipe, Deny it by standing on non-teleport spot (called kiting), or prepare other defenses for this very obvious upcoming attack...literately ruins the entire reason to "open" at all if you go and make your presence that obvious and slow to the enemy.

 

 

you might as well just have did a "/wave hello i'm here to kill u now tehe"  ==> that is literally what I do in WvW roaming, and It works amazing good (;

If you want to open unnoticed, there is Shadowstep: Shadowstep + Swipe = 1800 range opening, it's enough for me.

 

What it seems to me you are missing, it's the whole fight, you are just focusing on opening. After you openend form 2400-1800-1200 range, you are in close range, and you have to fight.. you can't keep 1200 distance with all the superspeed and teleports they added with EoD.

With Shadow Arts, best way to fight with DP Daredevil is to stay in 900-600 range, because the gameplay is 5-2 backstab, blind and stealth protect you and you can land backstab also without teleports.

 

How you decide to open the fight, in the current meta, it's almost irrelevant (except for Thief vs Thief and Thief vs power Reve).

 

Instant unblockable daze is amazing good if you play it with right timing and by far better in a WvW / PvP fight.

 

10 hours ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

yes u can... gotta STEAL during the animation for Headshot / Black Powder to "bring it with you"

 

 

Of course you can Black Powder + Steal/Swipe, and Black Powder + Shadowstep too.

As I wrote, you focus on opening, not on the whole fight: what is better in the actual meta to bring home victory? IMHO unblockable swipe, but that's my opinion, based on my playstyle.

 

I also think that a Daredevil with Steal would be just a thief with better dodges, killing build diversity and reducing "space" for core thief builds.

[Unofficial 2/3/2023 Balance Patch Preview For Thief Discussion!]

11 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

 This is what people did post changes… playing core thief.

 

Something to consider is how 1200 range synergies a with all teleports and ranged weapons. 600 range swipe gimps thief to a staff range making it some weird 1v1 poser, when DP daredevil could win its 1v1s already by sheer mobility alone. 
 

You want an unblock-able 600 range opener…imagine my reaction seeing derpy thief hobble up to get in 600 range to get close enough to open on me. 
 

I’ve played thief for a long time at high level and sorry but ur swipe gets dodged just like steal. Ur gonna wish u could have opened from a longer range.

 

At 900 range you get blinded against a DP, who the hell need to get closer to 600 range to open?

At 1200 range you can't blind with Black Powder and you can't interupt with Head Shot, DP Daredevil strength is to play in 900-600 range. Swipe is by far better: you can land a backstab in every block like Warding Rift, Full Counter, Shield Stance, Imperial Guard, Counterattack, Illusionary Counter, Bladeturn Requiem.. and get an Interrupt too.

 

1200 Steal is a must have only if you play SD.. 

[Unofficial 2/3/2023 Balance Patch Preview For Thief Discussion!]

17 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Steal was always better than swipe because DP Daredevil. If you want unblockables, play sword.
 

This is probably the biggest change in the patch. It might bring back classic Daredevil gameplay…we will see

 

One thing is good or bad depending on gameplay. 
1200 range was a thing when other classes were less mobile and daredevil used to have more mobility and a Backstab that hit 11-15k.. Now honestly I'd prefere by far 600range+unblockable Swipe, considering the amount of blocks and teleports.

"If you want 1200 range, play core"