SehferViega.8725
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Posts posted by SehferViega.8725
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@saerni.2584 said:Thing is, Panic strike isn’t actually OP. Most people complained about it because of the teleport because the condi gave constant pressure while letting the thief be out of reach.
And it is a necro thread but people are still complaining about S/D because people rediscovered it when Deadly Ambition added passive poison application to all weapons. But no complaints about other weapons because the teleport mechanic is their real issue ultimately.
I suppose the problem for someone is the burst damage of Condi S/D Daredevil.
Infiltrator's Strike + Panic Strike: 2 poison stacks + ImmobilizeDeadly Ambition: 3 poison stacksSwipe + Serpent's Touch + Bewildering Ambush: 3 poison stacks + 6 Confusion StacksDodge + Impaling Lotus + Uncatchable: 2 Bleeding stack + 1 torment stack + Cripple + 10% condition damage
And you can also use Spider Venom or Impairing Daggers to add more Poison stacks or, in WvW, Superior Sigil of Doom to add another 3 poison stacks.
Then you can teleport back, wait around three-four seconds and use again Infiltrator's Strike + Panic Strike + Deadly Ambition to inflict 5 poison stacks.So the advantage of this build is the combination of Deadly Ambition, Infiltrator's Strike and Panic Strike.
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@"Doug.4930" said:Been a lost of discussion thrown around lately about oneshot back stab builds being able to 1 shot from stealth. The best fix would be to nerf damage across the board, but failing that how about this.
Any stealth that is gained from a combo field, whether its a leap or blast is separated from stealth gained through traits and skills. In other words, much like how mesmer stealth like mass invis doesn't stack with thief stealth, stealth gained solely through combos (like leaping through blind fields) wouldn't stack with stealth applied via skills and traits. This would make it much more difficult for troll perma stealth 1 shot builds to pop out of stealth with an 18k backstab and vanish again for another 30 seconds while it waits for cooldowns. If this isn't enough and people want to go to further extremes, additionally make each stack of stealth gained through combos to be completely unstackable with every application of stealth in the game including additional combos. This nerf wouldn't affect thieves that weave in and out of stealth during a fight but would hinder stacking it out of combat and ambushing an enemy for their entire health pool.
Was going to post this in a WvW/sPvP section but figured I'd need to deal with the "I hate thief and stealth so much they should both be deleted" people. Hoping to get a more level headed response here.
What do you fellows thieves think?
Easieast solution? Remove Assassin's Signet from PvP and WvW (and of course keep it on PvE).. To balance increase some Weapon skills damage (by about a 10%): Backstab (but not Malicius Backstab that just get a Bonus Damage per Malice), Heartseeker (when the target has more then 50% health), Vault, Weakening Charge and Death's Judgment (cause it really easy to dodge).
No more oneshot from stealth (except in case you are playing a full berserker ele, guardian or thief) and we can solve, at the same time, the lack of damage of non-DE power thieves.
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@"Alatar.7364" said:Most of what I had in mind to say about that was already mentioned here in one way or other.However, I have to express my disappointment (yet definitely not surprised) how Condi S/D was not touched/adjusted at all except getting buffed through the Swipe change.Overall I am just happy it was not filled with the usual "we nerfed this and this, this, this too oh and that as well"
Deadly Ambition (theorized) change: reduce poison stacks from 3 to 2 (with Potent Poison) with an increased duration (from 3 seconds to 5 seconds, so it measn that poison can last for a max duration of 10 seconds).
These changes do not affect Condi S/D Daredevil very much, but they hit hard other builds.IMHO, it would be better remove the "poison the enemy that you immobilize" from the Panic Strike trait.
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@"UNOwen.7132" said:It has nothing to do with that. I still play Deadeye, mainly out of the fact that I cant be bothered to switch gear every time I go from PvE to WvW. But the problem is that its an actively horrible weaponset that entirely relies on bad enemies. Its in dire need of buffs, specifically as far as damage is concerned. Its a joke that Scourge can have far more sustain, be 4 times as tanky, and still out-DPS you with absolute ease. Scourge. A build that should be good at teamfights and bad at 1v1s.
In WvW there is no way: a decent DE never lose a 1vs1 against scourge.In all your post I have read, I've never seen you talking about the second weapons set: have yu ever try to use your D/P to make some damage for example?
I'm a main Thief (I usually only play Daredevil D/P and core S/D): lots of the DE I find in borderlands have no idea how to play it, many are bound to the only way they know: "oneshot/perma stealth" mechanics.
If your idea of DE playing is "mark the enemy and start shot at him till he dies", well, you literally won't be able to face no class.
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@"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:Hey again all,
Thanks for the feedback on the proposed Balance Changes over the last three weeks - as a result several notes have been altered and re-visited.This post isn't a request for more feedback, but a heads-up that we're going to be getting the changes tested and vetted internally while we get stuff ready.
Thief
- Deadly Ambition: Reduce the poison inflicted by this trait from 2 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 5 seconds in PvP & WvW.
Deadly Ambition is a trait that in this moment works really well: this trait is well balanced and does not create excessive advantages whereas it allows thief players to be able to play different condi builds.Nerf it would be a big mistake, IMHO.
In order to solve Condi Sword/Dagger Daredevil ridiculous burst damage (really zero skill needed to achiev great damage) it would not be better change Panic Strike trait?Go back to the old (2015) version of this trait, remove the "Immobilizing a foe poisons them" in order to avoid Infiltrator's Strike and Spotter's Shot spam and restore the 20 seconds cooldown and the 2 seconds of Immobilize duration
PS: can you consider the idea of restore Lead Attacks (effect) duration from the actual 10 seconds to the old 15 seconds? Now in combat is possible to reach the 15 Lead Attacks stacks only if you run Acrobatics or at the cost of waste all your initiative. I play D/P Daredevil and I almost never reach 15 stacks of Lead Attacks.I'm fine with the need to be in combat in order to generate the stacking damage effect.. but at least when I'm in combat let me make the most of from this trait.
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At the moment Rending Shade is always "active" also if you don't have Shadow Arts selected..I run Deadly Arts, Trickery and Daredevil but when I hit with Backstab I inflict fear.
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@"Crab Fear.1624" said:Potent Poison
Increased poison duration. Poison deals increased damage. Other Deadly Arts traits apply additional poison stacks.
Inflict poison when striking a foe. Gain increased condition damage. (2 stacks untraited for potent)
It should bump it up to 3 stacks if I am reading this correctly.
Yes, it must be a bug: before the last update Potent Poison do not increase neither Deadly Ambition poison stack duration.Then with update they at least fix poison duration.. With nexts patches I think Deadly Ambition+Potent Poison will inflicts 3 poison stacks, as it must be.
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Guys.. 3 stack of Poison every 5 seconds are nothing: the strength of condi D/D daredevil is that you can put condition continuously. Low burst damage (since they nerfed it), but high pressure.Now, how can you keep pressure on enemy if you add 3 stacks of poison stack every 5 seconds? it's ridiculous.. it'll only benefit Shortbow Choking Gas.Now with Death Blossom you can apply 3 stack of bleeding and 2-4 stack of poison, Dancing dagger applies 1 stack of torment and with a little luck 2 stack of poison.. and what about dagger auto attack chain? How much poison stack do we lost in a fight?
The changes in SA are IMHO ridicolus too: I don't like builds with lot of stealth. Right have access to stealth, but the hit-stealth/dodge stealth builds are ridicolus and absolutly no fun to face.
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@"ShroomOneUp.6913" said:
1) (but what is impaling lotus? you mean impairing daggers or the trait for dodges?)
I mean the dodge (Lotus Training is the trait in Daredevil and Impaling Lotus is the name of the dodge).
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@"Lazze.9870" said:It doesn't surprise me that you play two of the classes most prone to die to longbow builds, even when you claim to beat 99 % of them. Which also makes me question why you even bother to complain about it at all. Sounds like free lootbags to me.
Can you understand the difference between face a soulbeast and get hit by a soulbeast while you are fighting?
Face a glass cannon soulbeast is quite easy: dodge Point Blank Shot, close the distance gap and soulbeast has really low chance to win the fight (basically zero).But what happens if, for any reason (cause you are fighting an enemy, or cause a little lag, or your attention is focusing something else..), you can't see Point Blank Shot projectile coming? You have to waste a breakstun (cause unblockable, Bandit defence is useless and, cause autotargeting, Blindig power is useless too) and Daggerstorm: if you are fast, you survive with 1k-2k life, other cases you'll die.
I play Daredvil power thief, I play daredevil condi thief, I play core thief S/D, I sometimes play Reaper power, I sometimes play War and guess what? I have also a soulbeast, but I can admit its damage in WvW and PvP is too high compared to its survability and that is because lot of its skill/trait are made for PET and not for Ranger itself ("Sic 'Em!" is the first example, but also "We Heal As One!", ecc..).
Something similar happened with Deadeye, when you could make 37-45k damage with Death's Judgment using all Thief's Damage Bonuses.
So IMHO is a good thing if they tone down Soulbeast damage (and maybe give him something in change, I don't want for sure Ranger disapper from the game, but neitehr been hit by 9k Long Range Shot).
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@"Lazze.9870" said:A 25k Maul means they're heavily invested and will drop like flies. You can't get those numbers with a more balanced gear setup, especially not when fighting someone else that isn't full zerk either. Longbow on the other hand is always gonna be oppressive in WvW, and I honestly think that's completely fair when the class itself has never had a build fit for the zerg meta.
I just take an example of the damage a Soulbeast can made.. insane.Of course with balanced gear and trait setup they can't reach that damage, but they can gain lots of survabilities making anyway great damages.
"They will drop like flies"..1) First you have to close the distance gap, easy with thief, not so easy with other classes.2) They will have Lesser Signet of Stone for sure that grants survability (cause is in Marksmanship) and maybe they can have Signet of Stone too. So you can run a full offensive build that hits from 1500 range with 2 Endure Pain.3) If you run a full offensive build with thief you can't reach the same damage as Soulbeast in competitive modes, no way.. Just to take another example.
I can understand Maul damage: is a skill easy to dodge or interrupt, with a 220 range.But Longbow damage is absolutely no sense considering range, projectile speed, Ranger mobility and survability.
Soulbeast/Ranger grants easy kills also to a completly noob player like no other classes do.. Guess why XD
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@"mtnjkbm.7452" said:"Let's stop beating a dead horse. Let's focus on what changes are really in dire need rather then trying to bring dead things to life. Like revert Lead Attacks and revert Steal change and even exhaustion on DrD dodge. Those 3 "minor" things would do so much more then changing traps or buffing inf. signet."
^^^^^^^^^^THIS!!!!
Don't forget Exposed Weakness change, that only hits solo roaming Thieves with no sense lost of damage..
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@EnderzShadow.2506 said:Don't come here and try to act like you want anything but nerfs for a class you haven't learned to beat.After all these nerfs, Rangers are still going to beat you. No amount of nerfs will make up for poor player skill.
I usually kill with no problem 99% of soulbeast I found. BUT the ammount of (unblockable) damage Soulbeast can make is no sense.The fact they are easy to face doesn't mean that in WvW they can make 25k with Maul, 3,5k x12 with Rapid Fire + 2k each arrow with One Wolf Pack..Of course it happened that I get oneshotte by a soulbeast, especially while I was fighting someone else, like in 1vs2/3.How many times I have downed an enemy, started safe stomp with Shadowstep and get destroyed by a noob soulbeast came from nowhere that only press 1 key?It's the game..This doesn't mean I don't know how to face them, but again is no sense IMHO make tons of damage at 1'500 range without any kind of problem.If this for you is fairy, then take back also oneshot perma stealth deadeye, that was the same shit.
Here we are talking to class balance: ranger have tons of Bonus Damage in their traits, like no other classes, so is normal to tone down their damage (like in fact they have done now).
If you want to check the fact that I know how to kill a soulbeast or not, you can find me roaming on Piken. :3
And you play a necro. I am not surprised.
I basically only play Thief and not Necro.. Or well, I use to play D/P Daredevil for the most of my time: so please don't come tell me that ranger gets more nerfs then Daredevil.Guess based on what you can say I play necro LOL. I usually only write in Thief forum.
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@DemonSeed.3528 said:There is no rune synergy with this, just like there are no rune syngery with ranger commands. Gonna be pretty bad with a 3s cast time, especially if we can't throw them. I don't mind if they act like sbow 4 when you cast/throw.
3 second is not casting time, it's arm time.
You'll have:
- 1/2 second Casting time;
- then 3 second of Arm Time (so after you have casted Preparetion skill, you need 3 second before you can activate it);
- Instant activation (after 3s of arm time) for non-damaging ones (I guess Seal Area and Shadow Portal) and 1/4 second Activation time for the damaging ones (Pitfall and Thousand Needles).
@Shio.5826 said:Can't stress enough how excited I am to log into my thief next week to try out these skills. What do you guys think of these new toys we can play with?
I really don't want to use them.. they could be great, OP or useless, don't mind me. That is not the play style I want from a Thief.
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@foste.3098 said:has no one taken notice of the fact dagger storm will be a 2.8 sec evade? (or a 3.05 evade since at the moment it is 4.25)
- Dagger Storm: Reduced the casting time by 30%. Increased damage by 33% in PvE only.
But this means that it deals it's damage faster since it was not reduced
Casting time usually is a different thing respect Duration: in Dagger Storm we have casting time and Duration with the same ammount of time.With Path of Fire pre-patch they reduced the duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds and they doubled the number of daggers thrown.Now they are only talking about casting time, we know nothing about duration, evade and number of daggers thrown.
That could means:
- Dagger Storm will have a reduced duration and of course it'll do less damage and grants less evade.
- They will only reduce casting time so it means enemy have less time to interrupt this skill (with Spectral Ring, Line of Warding, Unsteady Ground) ==> to good to be true XD
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@"Karl McLain.5604" said:Being that the notes have gone out early and the theorycraft is in full swing, I want to add one additional note on Preparations.This ability type still carries similar functionality to other abilities that have arm-times. For preparations, the cast time is 1/2 second and the arm time is set at 3 seconds, with the activation being instant for non-damaging ones and 1/4 second for the damaging ones.These abilities have a few unique aspects to them. We're looking forward to seeing the builds and gameplay that you come up with!
I can't get the point.. they work as traps? So I "place them" at my location? Or Pitfall and Thousand Needles fire at target location after 3 sec arm time? And in this case, how can someone dodge/avoid them? (with 1/4 second casting time will be impossible).
Talking about casting time:
Dagger Storm: Reduced the casting time by 30%.
Do you mean Dagger Storm Duration?Why talking about casting time? We still have 4¼s evade and 4s of Duration? Or we'll have 2,8 sec of spinning? Or we simply activate Dagger Storm faster (but right now it's nearly instant)?
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@"ShroomOneUp.6913" said:
I have NO idea how are you able to use two adapt traits at the same time, since this is how you phrase the second point. And frankly i had to seek for help to improve my poison condi build by looking at other builds from all modes and as far as i can tell, poison is not the only and main condition daredevils use(unfortunately). its actually a combo of bleed and poison and never have i seen them having traps from the get go. they use venoms and daredevil defense utility skills, if they suggest a trap then only if certain conditions are met. And the same goes for trappers respite. not used at all. most condi builds use uncatchable/lesser calltrops on dodge.
I tried to employ traps, but the issue i face is that the thief has a weird placement of them, since they are horizontal bars a thief has to either turn 90° to hit a mob or stand right in the middle of a mob group which costs way to much health and can end up quickly in death. As far as i can tell the new preparations are ranged skills, WHICH WAS a mechanic traps once used to have with a trait if I am not mistaken. And it also sounds as if the preparations are also not a bar any longer but a circle area which is a positive in my book.but i agree with the dagger training nerf, wholly unnecessary
No, you have not understand what I have written (may be my fault):
1) about "Dagger training+Deadly Ambition" I mean those two changes, not to use both at the same time cause of course that is impossible: they are both Major Adept traits. I only play thieves (and I only play PvP/WvW), usually power thieves, but I also have a condi one: in my build poison is the main condition I use and that thanks to the actual Dagger training + Potent Poison + Superior Rune of Thorns (I use dash dodge instead of Impaling Lotus and I don't use venoms). Of course with poison I can stack Confusion, Bleeding and Torment.
2) Traps are useless now, no way. But I prefer a rework of them istead of new skills based on "magic".. this is only a "conceptual thing": If you play a Warrior you expect to fight with weapons in brawl, not to cast spells with a scepter, right? Same for thief.. that is an adventurer profession.So they could rework traps and make them usefull, instead of invent a new set of utilities based on magic
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@otto.5684 said:When I read the Anet explanation I laughed so hard. Too much survivablity?! Seriously, devs have to stop making changes based on golems in PvE.
I think they do casual changes, without neither do some test.. They don't know how to play classes in competitive modes, so they know nothing about what a class need to be more balanced and how to make the game more fun and competitive..Look at daredevil: a DPS mobile class without DPS..Look at Reaper, a more melee oriented class respect necro core that has zero sustain but tons of damage: and what they do? Reduce sustain (Last Gasp removed, Soul Eater healing nerfed)..
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Rapid Fire should have its damage reduced by 50%."Sic 'Em!" must increase only pet's damage, 25% is still too much and have no sense.
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@"Xenji.4907" said:
Yeah I agree... so not sure what the problem is? Yeah dagger training is nerf but that trait only add powers??? Also, they added a new trait instead that is only for condi and it that replaces traps . AND SA has two new traits that gear towards condi
The prolem is that with the new no sense "Deadly Ambition" you can't stack poison cause of the 3-5 seconds cooldown and this is a huge nerf.
Leeching Venoms: This trait has been moved to new slot in the same tier. It no longer reduces recharge of venoms. Instead it causes the thief to stack spider venom automatically while in stealth.
This could be OP or Useless, we don't know how much time you need to stack spider venom while in stealth: If you stay in stealth you can't use your spider venom; if you need to much time to stack spider venom, the enemy will heal with no problems..Blind, Blocks, Evade, Obstructed, Invulnerability consume Spider Venom, so not all the Spider Venom you stacked will make damage.
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@"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:
Necromancer
- Soul Eater: This trait no longer heals while shroud life force replaces health.
So basically it heals no more in competitive modes: Axe is not a melee weapon and Greatsword is really easy to kite and interrupt. At least restore the previous 200 healing at second wielding a greatsword. This is only a nerf.
Thief
- The following skills have been removed: Needle Trap, Tripwire, Shadow Trap, Ambush.
- Traps (Skill Category): This category has been replaced by a new skill category: Preparations.
- Preparations will function in a similar fashion to trap abilities, but they will not fire unless the thief chooses to trigger them. Each preparation will have a radius of 240 and will produce a variety of results, including the introduction of a portal-type utility that can ferry allies to a location.
- Prepare Pitfall: This new skill will mark your current area with controlling magic, readying the location to crush enemies when released.
- Pitfall: This new skill will unleash your pitfall on an area, knocking down foes and delivering constant damage over time.
- Prepare Thousand Needles: This new skill will mark your current area with inhibiting magic, readying the location to poison enemies.
- Thousand Needles: This new skill will unleash a hail of needles that immobilizes enemies on impact and repeatedly strikes foes over a short period of time.
- Prepare Seal Area: This new skill will mark your current area with stifling magic, readying the location to seal enemies in.
- Seal Area: This new skill will seal your marked area, blocking projectiles and preventing enemies from entering or leaving.
- Prepare Shadow Portal: This new skill will mark your current location with shadow magic.
- Shadow Portal: This new skill will unleash the shadow magic at your prepared location, creating a one-way portal that you and your allies can take. Allies traveling through the portal will be granted stealth, and foes around the portal's exit will be weakened. This skill is split between game modes, allowing 5 allies through in PvE and WvW, while only allowing one ally through in PvP.
1) I don't get the sense of the new "fake traps" or as you call them "Preparations skills": you continue talk about magic (controlling magic, inhibiting magic, stifling magic, shadow magic).. thief is an adventurer profession, not a mage. Thief have to use trap, not magic!
- Deadly Arts: This line has had some traits reworked due to the removal of Traps as a skill category. Preparations will not be receiving a trait at this time and will instead be balanced as though they are traited already.
- Adept
- Dagger Training: This trait no longer inflicts poison on dagger attacks.
- Trapper's Respite: This trait has been reworked and renamed Deadly Ambition.
- Deadly Ambition: Inflict 2 stacks of poison for 3 seconds when striking a foe, with an internal cooldown of 3 seconds in PvE, 5 seconds in PvP. Gain +120 condition damage when this trait is equipped.
- Master
- Deadly Trapper: This trait has been reworked and renamed Even the Odds.
- Even the Odds: Inflict 5 stacks of vulnerability for 10 seconds on targets you steal from. Gain 5 stacks of might for 10 seconds when you hit an enemy with a stealth attack.
- Adept
2) Dagger training+Deadly Ambition is a huge nerf for condi daredevil builds.. I can't understand the sense of the new Deadly Ambition trait: 3 stack of poison (thanks to Potent Poison) every 3 or 5 second? And how we can use it to kill something? With the actual Dagger training I can stack in 3 seconds 6-10 stack of poison.. with the new Deadly Ambition only 3!!
"The ambition" to kill someone will always remain only an ambition! :'( That's the reason of the trait name
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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:Hey folks!
I wanted to make an updated version of this post, given the recent release and a few bits of extra info on the progress of some items.
There is something in program in order to fix the bug that that afflicts daredevils and thieves?When Daredevil dismount, his third endurance bar is empty (so basically he have same dodges as a normal thief) and all thieves (core/daredevil) lose the 3 initiative points from Preparedness.This leads to prefer to move around the map without mount.
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Yes, BUT :-Cooldown: 40 seconds
-"Use Lesser Haste when attacking a foe from behind or from the side WIELDING melee weapons (dagger, sword, staff)" : if you want to activate this trait playing Deadeye rifle you have to hit with melee and then swap weapon (too easy fire from 1200 distance with 6 seconds quickness).-You'll never use this trait as breakstun, so have it or not is indifferent.. no sense change all trait mechanics.. we only need a 30-40 seconds cooldown
Nerfing permastealth Backstab builds without kittening thief further
in Thief
Posted
Look, I'm the first one that don't like permastealth mechanic.
If you spend Initiative to gain Stealth, is still fine for me (at least you can reach 6 seconds of stealth using only your initiative as DD D/P or 8 seconds if you are a DE): if you use it to gain stealth, then you don't have it to spam skills.
I don't like the Dodge-stealth mechanic and the new SA trait Concealing Restoration + Meld with Shadows (that is OP with both Withdraw and Hide in Shadows).
Not, is not! In WvW I usually play D/P daredevil with 3114 power and 223% critical damage, DA, Tr, DD and without Assassin's Signet: my backstab damage to another thief is around 8,5k-9,5k.. and this is my best DPS skill!!Now compare this with the damage of a Power mirage, a berserker warrior (or a core Warrior), a Soulbeast, an Holosmith, a Scepter Weaver or a Revenant.. to not talk about Reapers.