zinkz.7045
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Posts posted by zinkz.7045
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The difference is most WvW roamers are under the delusion that being "skilled" at this game is all about the combat.
Which is amusing given that in the grand scheme of PvP games GW2's combat is mechanically undemanding, pretty forgiving, not particularly fast or twitchy, spammy, imprecise, balance is terrible in WvW so cheese carries hard and to top it off the game even bloody aims for you.
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@"enkidu.5937" said:You already gave yourself the answer. The first well-designed RvR at least could have become a gold mine, because other games have yet failed to deliver a good one.
But that game, if it ever exists which I doubt, is not, nor would have ever been, WvW in GW2.
Its the big scale game experience, that makes it speshul. Even if it is a bad quality big scale game experience (hello flawed balance, lags, no fresh content etc.) it made at least a decent amount of players extremely addictive for 7 years now.
I agree that the big scale experience is a plus point for RvR games and somewhat unique, but then it has been shown time after time that it not enough. As for a "decent amount" of players, no, it is an absolutely tiny amount still playing WvW regularly and it is not as if PvP is unpopular in the gaming world, MOBAs, Shooters, etc can have tens of millions of players. And the reason for that is simple, in the grand scheme of PvP in video games, RvR is simply not very good PvP, so that has a very limited appeal.
Maybe you just had the wrong expectations for WvW to be "competitive", "high quality PvP" and that winning is the primary reason to play WvW? To me the design looks more than an "open world" just for fun battleground, with no skill-based matchmaking or server making. And a somewhat competitive part, which is fight guilds.
I don't expect a game mode like WvW to have competitive e-sports PvP, the problem is it is so lacking in that regard that even at the most basic level - a fight, what you end up with more often than not, is an encounter that is pretty one-sided and pretty dull, not fun. Which is part of the reason you had people trying to invent their own gamemode - GvG.
As for winning, you misunderstand, some of the most fun PvP I've had in games has been on the losing side, the point was that the game mode is so flawed that it is not fit-for-purpose so people basically ignore it, that isn't a recipe for a successful game or a "gold mine".
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@Samug.6512 said:
@"beatthedown.2651" said:Arenanet is supporting a single player RPG right now, not an MMO. So much talent and work hours wasted on three hour content, no one is going to replay.Even if alliances make it into the game, it's still the same old WvW mode. Winning isn't going to matter and balance will be still the ugly stepchild of sPvP. Which is sad, since WvW has great potential and could wipe the floor with other RvR games.I honestly think if ANet's focus went towards WvW some years ago instead of single player "mmo" content, the game would be a gold mine for them.Why? RvR isn't a success in any game.
It is basically a failed game mode, where every attempt at it just produces boring, uncompetitive, low quality PvP (most of the time), in a game mode so flawed (stacking, population / coverage issues, PvDoor, etc) that "winning" is essentially deemed meaningless by most players.
There isn't much demand for that.
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@"sephiroth.4217" said:If you roam or kill anyone, you're a bad person and should feel bad is the general mentality now days.
Nah, people always mocked "roamers" who ganked zerglings, it is barely PvP so what it the point. The difference is years ago there were plenty of roamers / roaming guilds that provided decent fights so an actual PvP player who wanted to roam could get their fights against roamers. Now most of the PvE baddies who call themselves roamers pat themselves on the back killing a minstrel FB on the way to the zerg in something so one way it isn't even a contest and for an actual PvP player wanting fun, skilled, engaging PvP is pointless.
Most actual roamers either changed to play large scale with a guild, quit the game or went PvP, because roaming without the population it once had is simply so garbage you may as well be playing PvE.
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Balance in WvW is garbage and is one of the reasons the game mode has died off (less than 600 viewers for GvG tourney yesterday, lol).
Last time I blobbed every group in the squad had at least 4 slots taken up by three elites (firebrand/scourge/herald), there were a couple of chronos and maybe 4 warriors, and guess what the comm was asking for more of, yep herald and scourge... 18 elites in the game and 3 of them make up at least 80% of the squad...
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You can't kill something that was already dead.
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@Naxos.2503 said:
@SnowPumpkin.1809 said:@Naxos.2503 said:@SnowPumpkin.1809 said:The alliance system will ruin wvw. I am shocked that many don't realize it's guilds that are destroying the wvw experience. It's all guild runs now and guild tags, tiny groups. No more large open tag zergs. To be honest if they just wiped the guild system in wvw I think things would improve. IMHOIs it ? o.O Vabbi and the Shiverpeak manage large zergs very frequently, same goes for the generally opposite servers. Guilds tend to constitute roamers and scouts Only. But that doesn't mean there isn't a zerg going around. Personally, I want the alliance system, because the megaserver setup means that I cant play with all my guildies in WvW, it makes no senseI have been playing for over 4 years now and WVW is nothing like it was then. It is dying out and no there are a lot less open tags then there used to be.How come there are consistently fully queued WvW on borderlands with up to 50+ Queued in EB if it's dying out ?There aren't, at least not on the majority of EU servers.
Normally the only time all borderlands get queued is reset, beyond that what you typically get even at primetime is either a "big" queue on one map (usually EB) or maybe two maps with smaller queues. And again that is normally only for primetime on most servers.
So if you compare that to even 3 years ago (let alone back in 2012/13) it is much, much less active.
Take afternoons for example, I just logged on EU T1 (WSR/underworld) there is no queue on any map, TS is basically empty, that is pretty typical. Now three years ago if I was on FSP for example then it was pretty common to have a zerg on EB and another zerg going round the borderlands to downgrade keeps with 60 people on TS. And of course there were other zergs to fight back then, unlike now where T1 has servers which are largely absent much of the time.
And this is with two servers combined as a link compared to a single server back then, the overall activity of the game mode is a pale shadow of what it once was, hence why it is dying out.
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@Straegen.2938 said:
@zinkz.7045 said:@Straegen.2938 said:Heavies and most lights are utility or zerg focused. Mediums are built for scouting, roaming, etc. GW2 doesn't have a trinity system but they have gone out of their way to create a "job" system for classes.Not really, the classes / combat were not designed around WvW, they were built around PvP (go find video of WvW "hero" Sacrx talking about alpha). Then for the first three years they were balanced nearly exclusively around PvP, then when they decided to add raids with HoT they also balanced around that, WvW gets nothing other than the odd crumb for large scale.Which is why mesmer a light class has been one of the best two roamers the entire game, why warrior a heavy class has been better or has good for roaming than engy most of the game and so on, because there is minimal concern with WvW and virtually zero in regard to roaming.The "balance" in WvW is largely just whatever kitten sticks from the design and balance decisions they take in other game modes, with the odd band-aid thrown in for show.You are referring to balance which is different than intent.No I am referring to their design (intent) as well as balance, hence why I specifically mentioned design...
No classes were built for zergs or built for scouting, WvW was only even added to the game as a side project, WvW/PvE were meant to be casual fun, the classes were designed around their "e-sport". What ever level of performance at various aspects of WvW classes had was basically down to the design and balance decisions they took for PvP and a roll of a dice as to whether those mechanics translated to WvW.
Clearly medium armor classes were meant for small scale with their general lack of AoEs, higher speed and more escape options in WvW.
Not really, take engy as an example it had loads of AOE / skills that hit multiple targets (bombs, grenades, flamethrower, etc), whilst they worked fine in PvP when you had to fight over a point (remember Teldo), they did not translate to the much more open nature of WvW or the greater numbers (e.g - see retal on flamethrower / grenades). Because guess what - they weren't designed for WvW!
those classes are still as focused on large scale play and utility as they are on small scale. It might have been a happy accident from ANet in the beginning but they have reinforced that intent through numerous class expansions.
Those classes like everything else were designed and balanced for small scale (conquest PvP) and since HoT also for PvE raiding. There is no intent for WvW, all WvW generally gets is the odd change to whatever is considered super obnoxious in zergs, which is why class balance has basically been non-existent for 6 years.
Which is why they did nothing about ghost thief for years in WvW despite it basically breaking one of the things they highlighted pre-launch - no permastealth. Yet within 2 weeks of one showing their "challenging" PvE content for the joke it is by soloing a couple of raid bosses they nerfed it, virtually zero kittens are given about WvW (especially roaming) by Anet.
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@"Straegen.2938" said:Heavies and most lights are utility or zerg focused. Mediums are built for scouting, roaming, etc. GW2 doesn't have a trinity system but they have gone out of their way to create a "job" system for classes.
Not really, the classes / combat were not designed around WvW, they were built around PvP (go find video of WvW "hero" Sacrx talking about alpha). Then for the first three years they were balanced nearly exclusively around PvP, then when they decided to add raids with HoT they also balanced around that, WvW gets nothing other than the odd crumb for large scale.
Which is why mesmer a light class has been one of the best two roamers the entire game, why warrior a heavy class has been better or has good for roaming than engy most of the game and so on, because there is minimal concern with WvW and virtually zero in regard to roaming.
The "balance" in WvW is largely just whatever shit sticks from the design and balance decisions they take in other game modes, with the odd band-aid thrown in for show.
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A game where groups of 4-6 have beaten many raid bosses, where a guy even soloed a couple and where groups do things like 10 of the same class raids would suggest they are already ezmode.
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Because over the last 6 years engy has been one of the weakest classes in the game, whilst also having required more effort to play (though this is less so now).
The history of engy in this game is basically it has been between decent and broken OP in PvP, in PvE between sub-par and okay, and in WvW it has been decent for roaming/small group, for guild raids it has been sub-par most of the game, bar a brief spell of scrapper and for zergs it has been surplus to requirements the entire game.
Now compare that to guard, ele, mesmer, etc and work out why there are few engys.
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@Astralporing.1957 said:
@"Darcnova.5163" said:There is a "New Hope " called Ashes of Creation I am betting that will surpass anything wow ever did, even my own excitement when I finally got my green fire. Gw2 it is ok boring most of the time, but I do like the graphics, better than wow.From what i see it has open world PvP, and is in general PvP-heavy, so no, thank you. I prefer cooperative games over competitive ones.Nearly every competitive game is also cooperative, they are just cooperative in a different way from what you may like, frankly the level of cooperation in a lot of competitive games goes way beyond the rather shallow level that most PvE produces, go see EVE Online for an example of cooperation that makes "cooperative" play in PvE in GW2 look trivial.
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@Obtena.7952 said:
@zinkz.7045 said:@Obtena.7952 said:Not only that, but a weapon swap doesn't solve any problem and in fact, goes against the intent of the class concept.The class concept is flawed for multiple reasons such as the imbalance between kits (at least if most of them were up to par) and other utility skills is too large, or that the pressure on utility slots is too much, especially when it comes to things like stun breaks where you have an opportunity cost, which is why engy has always had lots of passive stun breaks, problem is they are inferior much of the time because you have no control over them.If the concept is kits are a must (if they were all actually decent) and you are only intended to play engy with at least some kits, then the concept would make more sense if engy were forced to take at least one kit with a dedicated kit slot in addition to the utility slots, or at the least if kits were able to be switched into whilst you were stunned/dazed so they could put stun breaks in some of them, rather than the kitten passive ones and at the same time making certain utility skills less mandatory.The solution is to fix the kits.Except the Anet solution since HoT has been firstly to make a weapon so strong (hammer), that could do so much, it compensated for only having one weapon, at least before all the nerfs, or to basically give engy an additional weapon anyway with Holosmith, the original "concept" of engy simply has not worked since HoT, it is outdated in the game in 2018. (and to be blunt unless you've spent all your time in PvP the engy concept hasn't exactly been working great in the rest of the game over the last 5 years)OK ... that still doesn't mean a second weapon swap is the solution to bad kits. The discussion here isn't about whether kits are not good, it's about the idea of adding a second weapon to eng. That's a much higher consideration outside of kits being bad.My point wasn't really about whether kits are good or bad, or even whether a weapon swap is the solution.
You stated weapon swap "goes against the intent of the class concept", the point being the class concept is a poorly thought through, poorly implemented mish mash, that has failed, even more so as the game as aged, so arguing things are against a class concept that hasn't really worked is nonsensical, engy needs the mesmer treatment - a rework.
I have no idea whether weapon swap is the answer, nor really have much preference on it either way, though it is amusing given this thread that the thing currently keeping engy relevent in PvP/PvE (as always it is still irrelevant in WvW) is basically a glorified weapon swap with a resource mechanic slapped on it.
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@"Obtena.7952" said:Not only that, but a weapon swap doesn't solve any problem and in fact, goes against the intent of the class concept.
The class concept is flawed for multiple reasons such as the imbalance between kits (at least if most of them were up to par) and other utility skills is too large, or that the pressure on utility slots is too much, especially when it comes to things like stun breaks where you have an opportunity cost, which is why engy has always had lots of passive stun breaks, problem is they are inferior much of the time because you have no control over them.
If the concept is kits are a must (if they were all actually decent) and you are only intended to play engy with at least some kits, then the concept would make more sense if engy were forced to take at least one kit with a dedicated kit slot in addition to the utility slots, or at the least if kits were able to be switched into whilst you were stunned/dazed so they could put stun breaks in some of them, rather than the shitty passive ones and at the same time making certain utility skills less mandatory.
The solution is to fix the kits.
Except the Anet solution since HoT has been firstly to make a weapon so strong (hammer), that could do so much, it compensated for only having one weapon, at least before all the nerfs, or to basically give engy an additional weapon anyway with Holosmith, the original "concept" of engy simply has not worked since HoT, it is outdated in the game in 2018. (and to be blunt unless you've spent all your time in PvP the engy concept hasn't exactly been working great in the rest of the game over the last 5 years)
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@Gaile Gray.6029 said:World Creation builds teams so they have similar predicted participation, skill, coverage, and language.
So unless I am understanding it wrong, then that would mean EU will basically get a crippled version of the new system, because it will be hampered by language separation.
To take an example, currently most servers do not want to play Barauch Bay, because they are boring to play against because they lack players much of the day (relative to their tier position), their Primetime starts 2 hours or so later than everyone else, because Spanish eat late, and then late at night they can have blobs (I assume because high Spanish youth unemployment, Spanish speaking North/South American players) when no one else has anything close to those numbers.
But if I am understanding the system then nothing will change in that case to any meaningful degree, there will be a Spanish language 'world team', that will basically be Baruch Bay, that will still have hugely lopsided coverage, because you can't add to their numbers when most other people play because you are limited by having Spanish only speakers and you won't be able to put late night players against them, because many will be part of alliances that would mean they have many more players than the Spanish world team in the day/primetime.
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I take it this is a joke thread?
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The problem with engy is it is probably been the class most negatively effected by the overall powercreep, back when the game started engy (and ele to an extent) were the classes who could do a lot of different things on one build, problem is they powercreeped the game, and so you've had things like druid, chrono, etc that could do damage, have mobility and put out levels of support that made the little things engy did as an "all rounder" look laughable and so on, that are better "do everything" specs than engy.
Same thing with kits, most of them look tragically outdated and slow as hell, in a game that has added bucketloads of reflects/absorbs, loads of movement skills / evades, more instant cast/fast cast skills, etc, it is pretty telling that something like bomb kit has not been used for years in conquest PvP, something it should be perfect for (RIP Teldo build), but it isn't because it is frankly outdated unless you're hitting dumb AI in PvE that barely moves.
Kits also hgihlight another problem with engy, they have all these skills, yet there is ridiculous pressure on the utility slots trying to compensate for not having two weapons, trying to fit in the mobility, damage, condi clear, etc and then stunbreaks, which is basic flaw with the class, because you can't for example just pile on stun breaks to utility skills so engy has "options" for stun breaks, because there is an opportunity cost of using a skill for a stunbreak when it is also there for other reasons (and vice versa), which is obviously much less of an issue when a class has two weapons and those utility slots are not under the same level of pressure.
Finally this nonsense about being a well rounded class, the history of engy in GW2 over the game, is basically this, between decent and broken OP in PvP, PvE most of the game sub-par to nothing special, WvW for the entire game has been considered surplus to requirements for zergs, for most of the game same for guilds bar scrapper for a while (until it got nerfed into the dirt), for roaming mediocre, fine for small group (but really everything is fine for small group in WvW).
Go see guardian for what a class that has been 'well rounded' over the history of this game looks like.
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@Tom.6032 said:2) Some servers are able to maintain a high tier position simple by night capping objectives when they face little opposition. Of course come prime time on the opposing servers they are unable to compete - while the proposed change may serve to 'equalize' populations across servers at all times it would seem that simple decreasing war score for a server when they outnumber the opposition/out of prime time would be a better way.
Adding a sort of handicap system to the scoring is not the better way, because all it does is move the odd outlier server that relies heavily on off-peak PPT down the rankings, it doesn't improve imbalances of population/coverage at all, so all that will happen is other servers will face those outlier servers in lower tiers, they will be vastly outnumbered at night, they will still in most cases outnumber them in prime, so nothing has really changed, other than it is some other server's problem.
Nor does your method do anything to address more subtle differences in population - e.g you have servers that have strong morning presence in the same matchup as those who stronger in the afternoon (both are fine at prime), which makes for a dull matchup a lot of the time, Anet's suggestion in theory could at least improve that, where as yours would do nothing.
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@"Xtc Soul Dragon.2067" said:In your initial post you blatantly display whom your ire and dscrimination is aimed at, and that is my home server, since prerelease, of Blackgate.
They mentioned Blackgate in one paragraph merely as an example of how world linking is too blunt an instrument to allow them to balance coverage.
As you have apparently missed it, population/coverage imbalances have been an issue since day 1, if you had frequented the forums then you'd remember that soon after launch there was a "nightcapping" megathread precisely because of how those imbalances basically rendered WvW has a competition meaningless.
Favoritism will determine who is tier 1, not skill or dedication or hours or sacrifice.
I hate to break it to you, but part of the reason WvW needs a change and part of the reason it has died off to the extent it has, is "winning" is meaningless, no one with an ounce of logic cares less about "winning" in a game mode that is a joke as a competition, precisely because all that really counts is population/coverage. A WvW matchup is akin to having a sports match where after half time only one team comes back out and are able to score freely with no opposition, that is not competitive or skilled in the slightest.
Go ahead and replace the failed Edge of the Mists experiment; the lacklust rewards of that gamemode will not be missed. Do not delete 5 years of WvW rivalry and identity for shallow and foresight-lacking purposes, you as the developer do not write the history of your game, the players do.
Maybe this is the only game you've ever played, but servers are merely a grouping, people can have "pride" or "community" around different types of grouping, take EVE Online that is based on alliances made up of corporations (guilds) and to be blunt that game has a far deeper, stronger community than GW2 will ever have, the notion that servers are the only way those things can be achieved is nonsense.
...the moment you expunge that from the game is the moment that WvW ceases to have a reason to exist in a lot of our hearts and minds.
Really maybe you should look outside your own stacked T1 server, and over both EU and NA, WvW is in a really bad state, which is why most of the actual WvW players have either left or barely play anymore.
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@maxwelgm.4315 said:
@zinkz.7045 said:GW2 raids are already easy mode, I've played games where it took months on some raids for the first completion, not mere hours, and those were games with many more dedicated raid guilds than this casual game.GW2 has no gear treadmill. To kill a mythic WoW boss on release you HAVE to do it under-equipped for the encounter which is the definition ofartificial difficulty. This has been discussed to death in this topic and every single topic about raids, it's just not worthy the comparison to other MMOs. To make truly difficult raids in this game (like Dhuum's CM) means to push players to the limit of their actual capacity of performing flawless rotations for more than 10 minutes straight, because you can't crunch them down with higher numbers,which is what many other MMOs are all about, throwing more numbers at you. With that said, this line of thinking is not why Raids should remain as they are - If I thought this game was already perma-ez and I could play it with a blindfold, I wouldn't play as much as I do, so people who say this game is boring sure as kitten don't mean what they think they mean.I didn't suggest they make 'truly difficult raids' in this game, GW2 is aimed at casual players in most respects, so it only makes sense the raids are also largely aimed at that, I don't expect GW2 raids to take months to complete and have hardcore guilds tearing their hair out like has happened in certain games, it doesn't fit GW2's playerbase, but that doesn't alter that raids in this game with barely any hardcore guilds take mere hours before they are first completed, there is a reason for that, and it is not because they are difficult. ;)
As for he "artificial difficulty" nonsense, having to initially do raids in games underequipped is no more artificial than anything else about PvE, I hate to break it to you but artificial difficulty is basically what PvE is in MMORPGs, you play a game of simon says for no real reason, other than the fact AI is shit/non-existent, the mechanical requirements of playing these games is very low (again go see SC2, Streetfighter, CS, etc for games that require actual mechanical ability), etc.
So they basically add 'mechanics' to artificially provide a "skill" requirement, problem is that is basically a game of Simon Says and once people have learnt those mechanics the game play becomes trivial, which is why PvE players need a constant stream of 'shiny things' to get them to play what is substandard gameplay and is one of the reasons this genre is in decline.
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GW2 raids are already easy mode, I've played games where it took months on some raids for the first completion, not mere hours, and those were games with many more dedicated raid guilds than this casual game.
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@Roadkill.2374 said:
@zinkz.7045 said:But still endgame of any MMO is about the cosmetics...Maybe to you, I have pretty much zero interest in cosmetics, end game is some form of PvP in any MMO I play, cosmetics are just optional fluff for which they can charge what they want to people who want to play dress up like my 10 year old niece.Well maybe to you also. But for the majority its all about the Fashion Wars. Why do you think are the cosmetics so popular and profitable in any game. Think about that.That doesn't make it the "endgame", I mean there are skins/cosmetic items for most games, so yes there is a demand for it, but it is not the end game, LOL, Overwatch, DOTA 2, etc all have far more players than this game (more than any MMORPG or in fact more than several combined in some cases), do they have cosmetic elements, yeah sure, but that is not "end game" in any of them.
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But still endgame of any MMO is about the cosmetics...
Maybe to you, I have pretty much zero interest in cosmetics, end game is some form of PvP in any MMO I play, cosmetics are just optional fluff for which they can charge what they want to people who want to play dress up like my 10 year old niece.
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I just turned the video off pretty quick, it was dull, first thing I see is two guys semi-AFK on a ruin, one has lost half his HP before he has even woken up, yawn, then the second bit I see you going to whack two guys whilst they are pre-occupied with a camp, at this point I stopped, just typical low quality uncompetitive, trash tier stuff that you expect in GW2 and WvW especially.
(NOTE: I am sure you are competent, I just mean the context, situation of what I see is trash tier, that a lot of players on camps/ruins are just doing daily / or in zerg builds, etc, and is a fine example of one of the reasons why GW2 has the size of a "competitive" playerbase it does and why the interest in a game like GW2 on things like Twitch is so low)
How about smaller wvw maps?
in World vs. World
Posted
They should have gone with smaller maps or rather battlegrounds from the start, RvR fails in every game that tries it, it simply does not work as a game mode.