Condi vs Power mech?

[Infusion.7149]

3 hours ago, Kichwas.7152 said:

I've been using a Power Mech build with a Mace and so far in various PUGs of content I've yet to NOT be top DPS. Usually by a wide margin.

 

My build is essentially this:

Mechanist - Power DPS - MetaBattle Guild Wars 2 Builds

But with the heal and grenade swapped out for the Mech specific heal and the Mesh 'barrier' skill. That's actually a DPS loss to swap out grenade for a defensive. But it simplifies my rotaton and the barrier lets me withstand more.

Condition might be rated superior - but I've been shocked at how powerful 'power' is. Maybe the entire elite spec is just extremely overtuned?

I suspect a nerf for mech damage (and barrier) further such that it is a defensive weapon  addition to set it apart from rangers. There's logs of the mech doing upwards of 6K DPS which is over 15% of a DPS class.

The big difference from Mech to ranger pets is shift signet. Full boons on Iboga pushes it to something akin to 4K DPS. My testing with untamed running beastmastery and also without beastmastery yielded roughly 3K DPS from Iboga (no applied boons). Mech right now is nearly double.

In addition, J-Drive Condi Mech really isn't any more complex than scrapper or holo as it uses only grenade kit.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Adrianna.3092]

51 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

I suspect a nerf for mech damage (and barrier) further such that it is a defensive weapon  addition to set it apart from rangers. There's logs of the mech doing upwards of 6K DPS which is over 15% of a DPS class.

The big difference from Mech to ranger pets is shift signet. Full boons on Iboga pushes it to something akin to 4K DPS. My testing with untamed running beastmastery and also without beastmastery yielded roughly 3K DPS from Iboga (no applied boons). Mech right now is nearly double.

In addition, J-Drive Condi Mech really isn't any more complex than scrapper or holo as it uses only grenade kit.

the difference is... rangers just always have a pet with them but its not their main damage source... the mech is the entire class's mechanic so it being a large portion of their damage seems normal considering their entire traitline is dedicated solely to that mech if it did the damage of a ranger pet then ranger would just always be superior.

[Infusion.7149]

32 minutes ago, Adrianna.3092 said:

the difference is... rangers just always have a pet with them but its not their main damage source... the mech is the entire class's mechanic so it being a large portion of their damage seems normal considering their entire traitline is dedicated solely to that mech if it did the damage of a ranger pet then ranger would just always be superior.

The most common DPS ranger is soulbeast, which is always merged.

Pets are very much a part of untamed's usage. People aren't running mechanist just because it does damage, it also provides barrier (even on power mech with mace) and alacrity when traited.

In my testing on untamed, if you put pet on avoid you also don't get any Ferocious Symbiosis bonus.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Adrianna.3092]

4 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

The most common DPS ranger is soulbeast, which is always merged.

Pets are very much a part of untamed's usage. People aren't running mechanist just because it does damage, it also provides barrier (even on power mech with mace) and alacrity when traited.

In my testing on untamed, if you put pet on avoid you also don't get any Ferocious Symbiosis bonus.

yes but ranger has good baseline traits whereas engi does not... maybe if engi base traits were better it would be fine if the mech was weaker... however none of the engi base traits are any good and most of them dont even work properly alongside the mech either...

[Infusion.7149]

6 minutes ago, Adrianna.3092 said:

yes but ranger has good baseline traits whereas engi does not... maybe if engi base traits were better it would be fine if the mech was weaker... however none of the engi base traits are any good and most of them dont even work properly alongside the mech either...

If what you're saying is true then holo wouldn't be dominant in PVP since its inception and scrapper wouldn't be dominant in WVW. The only place it is underrated is in PVE, when in actuality it is quite strong if you have might and fury applied somewhere else (especially for scrapper) , this is something mechanist is able to do.

The only traitline that hasn't quite kept up with the times is Tools.

With zero boons on mechanist copied, condi mech build (Viper+Ele rune + bursting + earth sigil) without food or utility puts out ~3.5K DPS from the mech itself using standardized boons. (Power) Full berserker's + scholar rune, force sigil only is also around that DPS from mech without copied boons on mech at range.

[dusanyu.4057]

Power with mace is fun things seem to be melting fast enough for me 

[Jerus.4350]

14 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

With zero boons on mechanist copied, condi mech build (Viper+Ele rune + bursting + earth sigil) without food or utility puts out ~3.5K DPS from the mech itself using standardized boons. (Power) Full berserker's + scholar rune, force sigil only is also around that DPS from mech without copied boons on mech at range.

Mhm, and we give up 5 skills to get the Mech, so it better be able to pull it's weight. 

We're losing key DPS skills like Grenade Barrage, Big Ol' Bomb, Mine Field, or Surprise Shot. The Mech needs to be able to make up for those losses and do more because Elite specs are supposed to be better than Core (I don't necessarily agree with the idea but it seems to be the way things are going).

In the end the mech needs to be better than what we're seeing from Ranger pets to be worthwhile, but I do agree that maybe they're a bit too good right now.  Perhaps dropping the base power inheritance from 50% to 30-40% would work (apparently the 25% they had in one phase of beta wasn't enough).  I think they did a fine job as far as balance is concerned, they just need to do some more fine tuning and shave things down a little.  Mechanist isn't alone in that though, looking at Virtuoso, Harbinger, Specter and Willbender. 

 

I will say I feel for ranger mains, get the lemon of Elite specs while you watch another profession get a better version of "your thing" with the pet. I hope they can rework Untamed to be as solid as Mech has turned out.

[Infusion.7149]

5 hours ago, Jerus.4350 said:

Mhm, and we give up 5 skills to get the Mech, so it better be able to pull it's weight. 

We're losing key DPS skills like Grenade Barrage, Big Ol' Bomb, Mine Field, or Surprise Shot. The Mech needs to be able to make up for those losses and do more because Elite specs are supposed to be better than Core (I don't necessarily agree with the idea but it seems to be the way things are going).

In the end the mech needs to be better than what we're seeing from Ranger pets to be worthwhile, but I do agree that maybe they're a bit too good right now.  Perhaps dropping the base power inheritance from 50% to 30-40% would work (apparently the 25% they had in one phase of beta wasn't enough).  I think they did a fine job as far as balance is concerned, they just need to do some more fine tuning and shave things down a little.  Mechanist isn't alone in that though, looking at Virtuoso, Harbinger, Specter and Willbender. 

 

I will say I feel for ranger mains, get the lemon of Elite specs while you watch another profession get a better version of "your thing" with the pet. I hope they can rework Untamed to be as solid as Mech has turned out.

I'm not a ranger main, I'm just pointing out that it's stronger than pets. My engineer since launch has over three times the hours of my ranger which is more or less always soulbeast and nearly never run in WVW.

I would be far more happy if they made the mechanist traits do something while mech is away. See J-Drive.

Mech Core: Barrier engine could be changed to "mace applies the barrier while your mech is away". Mech Core: Jade Dynamo could be explosions' condition triggers twice while mech is away.

[Jerus.4350]

The ranger main comment wasn't aimed at you, just in general I feel for them since Mech looks like it will take over for Druid in raids/strikes/fractals and it's a spec that has more power focused in a pet, just can't be fun.