Open-world Bosses insta-dying is not fun game

[Xerxez.7361]

4 minutes ago, Kromie.8930 said:

I don't care much for fractals. I have done only t1 because AR infusions are annoying. I haven't gotten into raids because haven't found a group for them.  I mainly WvW and do strikes occasionally with Guildees and that's fine for me. I enjoy that content.  But besides ascended rings and occasional ascended armor choice drops (none that a viable for my builds),  the rewards suck. MoB are a grind as well. Haven't even got Leg WvW armor yet. Finally have Juggernaut but had to sink real money to buy gold. And there was a lot I had to do in OW for it like world completion for Gift of Exploration. 

 

The higher you get in Fractals the more +1 Agony Infusions that drop, but starting off unless someone experienced leads the group they can definitely be tedious and time consuming.

 

If you're interested in Raiding give Raid Academy Discord a try. They have Training every day throughout the day.

 

You can also change any Ascended Armor to your desired stats with a Mystic Forge Recipe.

[Kromie.8930]

3 hours ago, TheQuickFox.3826 said:

Most open world bosses are fine, but the Fire Elemental and the Great Jungle Wurm could use better scaling as they die in seconds with a large group.

LLA, Shadow Behemoth, and many more get burned down within a couple minutes. Drakkar with 15-20 people is fun.  Im not sure how fast it dies with more. There are others than can be fun but I agree there's definitely a scaling issue with the older content. 

[Erise.5614]

4 hours ago, Kromie.8930 said:

I don't care much for fractals. I have done only t1 because AR infusions are annoying. I haven't gotten into raids because haven't found a group for them.  I mainly WvW and do strikes occasionally with Guildees and that's fine for me. I enjoy that content.  But besides ascended rings and occasional ascended armor choice drops (none that a viable for my builds),  the rewards suck. MoB are a grind as well. Haven't even got Leg WvW armor yet. Finally have Juggernaut but had to sink real money to buy gold. I get that ANet makes money this way but I already spend enough real money on other things like skins and convenience items.  And there was a lot I had to do in OW for it like world completion for Gift of Exploration. 

Agree with strikes and WvW. It honestly feels like they will add some vendors or options to use shards down the line as CMs get fully implemented. The entire EoD expansion feels weird reward wise. The map / mode specific currencies are next to irrelevant. It boils down to few, there's few things you can buy with them, almost none of it is account bound but it's also not valuable or a good way to gain a substantial amount of gold. The buff to DE rewards was a literal joke too. 
And WvW rewards feel deeply flawed. Both in how they are distributed (pip & reward track progress being primarily through high participation and being on a WvW map. Rather than rewarding active play) and are too low in general.

Though I would like to point out that legendary items are a massive grind and very intentionally so. It does not feel fast in PvE either. Grinding towards weapons is a bit more excessive than necessary. But legendary armor pieces and it taking forever is very much as it should be.

[Average.7901]

New player here. When you say "rewarding open world content", exactly what are you referring to? What open world content is better than more difficult instances combat like fractels

[Fuchslein.8639]

On 5/1/2022 at 9:12 AM, Erise.5614 said:

To preface this. Everything I talk about is in the context of the health of the game. The primary thing to optimize for is long term player retention. Or, in other words, making sure as many people as possible enjoy the game for as long as possible.

If a change doesn't significantly increase participation or keeps players playing the game for longer (not in "hours per day" or "hours per week" but in "how many weeks did they log in per year"). If a change doesn't improve on either of those things it's probably best to be a pet project of a volunteer at ANet. But not an actual priority. 

The challenge is, you never know. Nothing ANet implements is certain to have a specific effect. So even they have to go by a lot of assumptions. And we don't even have the existent data. I'm just pointing that out because that means all views, requests and suggestions on the forums are gonna be about personal preferences rather than facts. Very much including mine. 

With that as base line. Let me respond to the specific points. First of all, you have to realize that a lot of the gold per hour calculations depend on extremely optimized gameplay. Drizzlewood North, Drizzlewood South and Dragonfall have insane values (over 30g per hour) because they calculate with 20 minutes to complete the entire event chain, hop into a new map and do the same again with absolutely no downtime or delays. But it's unlikely either of us will ever experience that unless you deliberately search for a hardcore OW guild. If you spend the more normal 1.5 hours for a Drizzlewood clear then your reward is somewhere around 10-13 gold per hour. Assuming the same efficiency you can do a HoT raid full clear in 2-2.5 hours. Which rewards you with around 50 gold or 23-25 gold per hour. You probably won't ever reach that. But it's possible. Which is what gold per hour compares. Theoretical maximums to make content more comparable. And it's not even counting magnetite shards or the subjective value of raid exclusive / semi exclusive rewards like legendary armor or portal device. Nor the incredibly cheap access to legendary equipment.

Harder PvE content is, at least mathematically, competitive with any OW farm. So the talk about increasing rewards is mostly about perceiving it as harder, as more effort and wanting rewards that reflect this increase. Though you have to acknowledge that this is a subjective topic. And if it's only argued from this perspective rather than framing it in the context of improving the games health, it's really not a strong point. There are valid arguments for increases. But the point of "it's low" by itself is not entirely valid. There's truth to many feeling like it's unrewarding and that non perfect clears are less rewarding than suboptimal OW farm. 

But the real question is. What do raid players consider fair? 50% more? 100% more? If you double current rewards efficient players would be able to draw 50 gold per hour. Nothing except gambling provides returns like that. Not even in a similar ballpark. And what about all the exclusive rewards? OW has a few basic skins and stuff that's only relevant in OW. All rewards gained are liquid gold. Exclusive QoL has value too that needs to be factored in. That increases efficiency, decreases cost elsewhere, etc. 
Further increasing liquid rewards would have to correlate with reduction or removal of such privileges. Which might harm adoption rate of the content. Or we do actually run into the risk of the content being overrewarding. 

Please stop refering to my post, when you just come up with stuff i never said and on top of this, invent things who are not true just to underline your'e arguments.

Thanks for the "discussion", i think ...

[Erise.5614]

38 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

Please stop refering to my post, when you just come up with stuff i never said and on top of this, invent things who are not true just to underline your'e arguments.

Thanks for the "discussion", i think ...

I'm sorry you feel this way.

I was trying to explain the context of why I was sharing the opinions I shared. Which you felt as me saying you are "asking too much". Which was not the case at all! 

The reward of hardcore PvE is underwhelming if you don't play perfectly (let's be real, who does?) and after some of the permanent upgrades have been earned or if you don't care about those at all. 

But the problem with adapting those is that it's very easy to result in most people who reach the point of being interested receiving all of that stuff at once. Potentially enticing and rewarding them too much to a problematic degree. While simultaneously still being mediocre rewards for players who enjoyed it for a long time. The comment was explaining why I hold some of the opinions I expressed and the potential issues I see. 

I'd be very interested to know what things I invent though! It's fine if people don't agree with my opinions but I'd at least like to make sure they don't contain clear mistakes! 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Kromie.8930]

19 hours ago, Average.7901 said:

New player here. When you say "rewarding open world content", exactly what are you referring to? What open world content is better than more difficult instances combat like fractels

Assuming you sell Unidents and materials on TP. Octovine is just 1 example. You don't even need to do anything to get the rewards literally just enter map that finished event.