Experiences and Suggestions for Untamed

[Jopettaja.7451]

First of all this is mostly PVE focused post and if you want to skip the experiences and go to the suggestions you can skip the first paragraph

 

Ive actually played quite a lot untamed in PVE end game (pugs) recently, such as raids, strikes and t4 fractals including the CMs, I just really wanted to try it and make it work since I never really see it used and i dont think it is as bad as most say but it still seriously needs some buffs too, I cant get good numbers on golem but still somehow it manages to perform better in real fights compared what it seems in training grounds. I have mained engi for almost as long as ive played and i think untamed is a bit in similar situation as scrapper used to be, its nice in pvp/wvw but no one wants you in pve cause you lack damage and any kind of support, but also i think good goal for untamed would end up being in similar position as scarpper is now, its not top dps but still does decent damage and has potential to support group, sturdy bruisery type of dps. Now untamed is so unwanted that ive never experienced as much hate from just the spec choice, I have multiple times got comments right when joining in strike or raid that if im seriously going to play untamed and also much worse, but ive also never got as much wonders or confusion when ive actaully not done that bad, Ive been many times top 3 or even the top dps in pug groups. One time when i joined in raid commander started asking if im seriously going to play untamed and kind of like trash talking about it and I just told I will change if my dps is too bad, which he corrected "when its too bad", but i was top dps most of the fight and right at end someone passing me so i ended up being second dps and after that commander didnt say anything or even answer me for anything the whole raid, just point being i think it also gets a little too much uneccesary hate and theres been surpricingly many this kinda of experiences, but also the other way, if Ive done well, many are confused that wasnt untamed supposed to only suck and be awful, but all this just tells its not in really great spot now. These experiences are all from pugs, many of them 250LI runs or so but i do understand if I raided with super experienced squad with everyone min maxed meta builds it would be way harder or impossible to be the top dps with untamed, if i want to do some more serious raiding etc I still do change to my engi, sometimes i just like to try all kinds of build and make them work the best i can after playing so long

 

And now into the suggestions, these are ment to improve both gameplay and theme/feel of the elite spec but i tried to keep them simple, small and realistic

 

1) First I would add a new bar similar as druids celestial avatar over the dodge bar (i dont think this would be such a huge change since the layout already exists), it would work as the ambush skill indicator and it would fill from the middle to both sides, when right side fills up you can make ambush with 1, when left side fills up your pet can ambush with f1, your attacks would fill the pets ambush bar and your pets attacks would fill your ambush bar, it would no longer be timed for 15sec but instead filled with attacks.

So I would add a ambush skill to pet too, it doesnt have to have any new big animation but give nice buff to the actual damage of the f1 skill every now and then, some small added animation or noise would be nice though. I would also make the player ambush skill hit harder so it would be one of your big burst skills, im not meaning anything crazy but something you actually want to hit with and make you look forward to have the bar filled. I think this would be much better and more clear way for the ambush to work and it would make the ambush actually relevant, you dont have to look that small little indicator lost in your boons to see if you ambush is up or not and your ambush attack would be actual damage boost, it would be visually more pleasing and interesting and also easier to understand and track.

Overall i think this would enhance the untamed experience and theme, but still be realistic change, it would make the unleash (whole spec mechanic) feel more impactful and important, passing the unleash back and fort and buffing each other, hitting hard when unleashed, even better if the ambush bar would be made to look cool, some nice but fairly simple animation as it fills and maybe glowing green as its full

 

2) Second suggestion would buff both core ranger and untamed without making much impact on soulbeast, I would move the fortifying bond (boon share for pet) from nature magic to beast mastery trait line, first of all i think it would make more sense there as it buffs your pet, but also having boons on pet would make very easy but significant damage boost on both core ranger and untamed but it wont affect soulbeast dps really (as far as i know) as you are merged with your pet anyway. So far Ive been using marksman instead of beastmastery but I tried adding boons for the pet at the training golem and i think its just the damage boost untamed (and core ranger) could really use.

 

So thats it, just two changes, buff the ambush mechanic and give pet boons, i think that would be realistic but make significant enough change (atlest if the numbers are right) so untamed could actually be used more in end game PVE and with the upcoming spirit changes with alac, untamed could be in similar spot as scrapper. Also even this is pve post as last side note i dont think this would break anything in pvp/wvw especially since they are balance separately so you can just adjust the numbers

[Beddo.1907]

31 minutes ago, Jopettaja.7451 said:

First I would add a new bar similar as druids celestial avatar over the dodge bar (i dont think this would be such a huge change since the layout already exists), it would work as the ambush skill indicator and it would fill from the middle to both sides, when right side fills up you can make ambush with 1, when left side fills up your pet can ambush with f1, your attacks would fill the pets ambush bar and your pets attacks would fill your ambush bar, it would no longer be timed for 15sec but instead filled with attacks.

I'd rather not remove ambush completly if you are not on the offensive. With this change we can no longer use sword leap for getting out of the fight, no more kiting to use the lifesteal and you can't use it when starting combat unless you've charged it before.

Pet ambush is just a waste of effort and sound even more like a bandaid than the ranger ambush. Unlike weapon auto, F1 has a cooldown so you can waste the ambush, needs new animations and causes even more clutter in the pet control.

I like the bar as an indicator of the CD without the resource mechanic.

45 minutes ago, Jopettaja.7451 said:

would move the fortifying bond (boon share for pet) from nature magic to beast mastery trait line

But where are you moving it?

 

[Kaenaydar.5631]

I have been maining Untamed since came out. My build is Marksman Beastmaster and Untamed. When i did the golem my dps is normally 8k dps on golem. I think people forget it has its uses in pve. From what i have seen is people underestimate its potential as a break bar killer. Many times in a fractal i seen my power build Untamed shred a break bar. My gear build is marauder armor and weapons and zerker accessories. I think in truth the issue is they try and only compare it as a Soul Beast. One group got angry that i wasnt getting 30k dps according to their tracker. Which according to them should be its norm given that is Soul Beast normal. However Untamed in my mind just plays different and truth be told is pretty good dps. My go to weapons are longbow and hammer. I also want the option to let us go back to auto casting pet skills.

 

I want to see Untamed do better in pve given at present i rarely see other Untamed players in pve which is a shame given its the closes to core.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Kaenaydar.5631

[kharmin.7683]

19 hours ago, Kaenaydar.5631 said:

I want to see Untamed do better in pve given at present i rarely see other Untamed players in pve which is a shame given its the closes to core.

Really depends on the content you're engaging and/or which maps.  I see untamed players frequently, but not in large numbers.

[mikexg.7329]

2 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Really depends on the content you're engaging and/or which maps.  I see untamed players frequently, but not in large numbers.

I've been playing untamed in PVE open world, mostly to give it a chance and "figure it out" so I can provide constructive criticism to the class.  It certainly needs something... The one place it really shined was PVP, and although it still seems good there, it did just get nerfed in that regard.  

On a positive note - Untamed "CAN" be very powerful as a solo class, especially in celestial gear.  But I find other ranger builds can do it better.  Untamed needs something that defines it as the best version of a ranger for X role, and ideally that is more than just PVP.  I was very excited when the spec was announced thinking it would be more PVP and WVW focused.  My WVW on ranger was limited to Soulbeast roaming, and swapping to my necro for larger scale play (which I didn't want to do...)  Never the less, Untamed in WVW is the same more or less, as soulbeast, can roam fairly well if played right, but ultimately Soulbeast does it better.  I am hoping the spirit rework changes things for Core, Druid, SoulBeast, and especially Untamed.  

The crux of all ranger issues is someone can do it better than us and we have a kitten class mechanic with the pet.  So make us better than everyone else at 1 thing that is applicable to all game modes.... OR... make us on par with others and various roles we can do and fix the pet

[Kaenaydar.5631]

59 minutes ago, mikexg.7329 said:

I've been playing untamed in PVE open world, mostly to give it a chance and "figure it out" so I can provide constructive criticism to the class.  It certainly needs something... The one place it really shined was PVP, and although it still seems good there, it did just get nerfed in that regard.  

On a positive note - Untamed "CAN" be very powerful as a solo class, especially in celestial gear.  But I find other ranger builds can do it better.  Untamed needs something that defines it as the best version of a ranger for X role, and ideally that is more than just PVP.  I was very excited when the spec was announced thinking it would be more PVP and WVW focused.  My WVW on ranger was limited to Soulbeast roaming, and swapping to my necro for larger scale play (which I didn't want to do...)  Never the less, Untamed in WVW is the same more or less, as soulbeast, can roam fairly well if played right, but ultimately Soulbeast does it better.  I am hoping the spirit rework changes things for Core, Druid, SoulBeast, and especially Untamed.  

The crux of all ranger issues is someone can do it better than us and we have a kitten class mechanic with the pet.  So make us better than everyone else at 1 thing that is applicable to all game modes.... OR... make us on par with others and various roles we can do and fix the pet

Couldnt agree more if it doesnt stand out soon in a positive light for pve. It will be that one class people will hate in group play. When class came out i seen it as a class i could enjoy given i wasnt into Soul Beast and dont have the build for a druid. So before EOD i stuck to core ranger. Untamed in my mind was suppose to be a evolution from core playstyle.

Every time i go into a fractal, raid, or strike i hear why Untamed. Why not Soul Beast my reply is always i play Untamed better. Other reason i want to see it do well in all pve content. What i hoped when i seen the hammer was in tool kit for Untamed was Master Ranger Nente. He was deadly with his bow and if you got close to him thats if his two wolves didnt get ya first he would beat ya with his hammer. When i faced him in his dungeon on my core ranger i was a little impressed. I killed him easily in his dungeon but i hoped that was rangers future after EOD.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Kaenaydar.5631

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

On 5/12/2022 at 2:51 PM, mikexg.7329 said:

 I am hoping the spirit rework changes things for Core, Druid, SoulBeast, and especially Untamed.  

Hate to be so negative, but with the sheer lack of attention ranger is getting in terms of positive reworks (druid for ages has needed a rework at least for glyphs, the tether mechanic is neat but doesn't function well and glyph of alignment or whatever the one that's just an extra bit of damage/healing when out/in CA is just plain bad, and no mention of untamed reworks, buffs, or fixes), I doubt spirits will be getting reworked heavily enough to make a difference outside of PvE. All we know is it will let us give alacrity, most people seem to think it will be the new function of the trait Nature's Vengance (giving boons upon moving the spirit, as it does now, just that all give alacrity).

[VVhiteTheEntity.9273]

I like the Untamed but nevertheless it feels incomplete.

I don't understand why the hammer is the only weapon whose skills change when the Ranger is unleashed. It would be great if the other weapons have this feature too. At this moment most of the time I let my Pet be unleashed for some reasons. The Ambush Skill is only available for 4 seconds after unleashing the Ranger. An unleashed Ranger has a higher damage output but the additional Pet skills are useless: You have to give the order for attacks that the Pet automatically does with other Ranger Professions. In my opinion the Pet skill F2 on unleashed Ranger is enough. The Untamed has its strength in the frequently switching between unleashed Pet and unleashed Ranger but using these F1 and F3 Pet Skill ( on unleashed Ranger) slows you down. The Pet Skills on unleashed Pet are okay but why on earth are they all the same no matter what Pet I choose. This hasn't to be individual for each Pet but individual for each Pet class like Moa, Birds, Spiders, etc.

(By the way, I don't like this visual effect on unleashed Pet - it should be more subtle)

Last things are the Cantrips. Sorry, but all of the Utility Skills are useless for me.
- The Exploding Spores have a ridiculous small radius and all of them must hit to knockdown an enemy. You must literally stand right _in_ the enemy.
- The Unnatural Traversal has a nice Teleport and it's very helpful to set a trap. But only 2 stacks of vulnerability? The Storm Spirit is a much better choice.
- The Nature's Binding give you some very nice boons. But its main effect is not very useful (to me). There are lots of possibilities to immobilize the enemy which works on a similar way.
- Mutate Conditions - Well I guess it's okay.

These are my personal experiences. To be honest I'm not a good Ranger player nor a competitive player.
In my opinion the Untamed has some potential but it still needs some rework.

Edited May 21, 2022 by WhiteDemon.9301