So... Arena.Net destroyed the concept of "shadow arts" ???

[kash.9213]

1 hour ago, Bern.9613 said:

I disagree and I'm referring to thief in wvw not the boring, monotonous pve. Once again, deadeye was built/created around stealth. Super speed I can live without, already had 50% speed boost while stealthed. Initiative regen, condi cleanse I already had. FYI initiative regen was nerfed years ago when they topped out stealth stacks, on thief only. Stealth on steal was taken away, stealth when using a healing skill, gone. You obviously never went into outnumbered fights or go against these bunker, heal, condi builds. I've mained thief from launch, seen the continual chipping away at the class. With the introduction of specter as a thief elite, (if I wanted to play a healing bot, I wouldn't had picked thief) that was a huge red flag. The wisdom of thought from those                       at anet is bunker, heal, condi builds are better because it's easier and more forgiving when you screw up. So yea, deadeye has been killed off.

Are we talking fighting outnumbered or kiting outnumbered? All of that write up is about being in stealth. I can still load up a stealth stack to mask movement for map travel or set up an opener.

I think Stealth on Steal should have remained somewhere. It would be a build choice considering the other good options and it was a fluid way (a skill and feature that crisp and so well designed intentionally or not shouldn't be messed with lightly) to gain stealth and combo skills for a well placed Stealth Attack or whatever.

I think they should have also buffed our Stealth Attacks as long as there's smaller stealth stacks to position and connect. 

Give Specter another shot but play it with the same tempo and movement as any other thief build. Also think of and build towards being a Rot Wallow Venom bot instead who makes weapons out of teammates. It's great for fast paced moving fights and has good utility. Weapon movement is alright alone but is intuitive in group play (still think Focus would have had better animations and movement but Scepter isn't horrible) and Well and Shroud movement is a lot of fun but also makes sense for the space and spread they cover. 

Edited July 25, 2022 by kash.9213

[ASP.8093]

5 hours ago, Bern.9613 said:

You obviously never went into outnumbered fights or go against these bunker, heal, condi builds.

Lol. Come on now.

More cleanse and more initiative (= more DPS) is exactly what you need to bring down the stupid condi tank builds. When you sit in stealth they just get their cooldowns back and you have to start the process of whittling them down all over again.

Edited July 26, 2022 by ASP.8093

[Bern.9613]

13 hours ago, ASP.8093 said:

Lol. Come on now.

More cleanse and more initiative (= more DPS) is exactly what you need to bring down the stupid condi tank builds. When you sit in stealth they just get their cooldowns back and you have to start the process of whittling them down all over again.

I had cleanse, I had initiative regen, I had a small heal with the old sa line. IDON'T NEED NOR WANT SUPER SPEED, had a speed bonus in stealth. Had time to reposition, set up and do the combo skirmisher's shot and death's judgement. Now it's blink here and there and the target dodges death's judgement because there isn't enough time to set up the combo.

Anyways it doesn't matter. I'm done with                  at anet and their                    balance attempts. Take my advice, go to steam (doubt they're ever going to be on steam, too                   ) play something else (Operation Harsh Doorstep, I helped my son with the weapons and some landscapes) and wait for Ashes of Creation.

[Bern.9613]

17 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

Are we talking fighting outnumbered or kiting outnumbered? All of that write up is about being in stealth. I can still load up a stealth stack to mask movement for map travel or set up an opener.

I think Stealth on Steal should have remained somewhere. It would be a build choice considering the other good options and it was a fluid way (a skill and feature that crisp and so well designed intentionally or not shouldn't be messed with lightly) to gain stealth and combo skills for a well placed Stealth Attack or whatever.

I think they should have also buffed our Stealth Attacks as long as there's smaller stealth stacks to position and connect. 

Give Specter another shot but play it with the same tempo and movement as any other thief build. Also think of and build towards being a Rot Wallow Venom bot instead who makes weapons out of teammates. It's great for fast paced moving fights and has good utility. Weapon movement is alright alone but is intuitive in group play (still think Focus would have had better animations and movement but Scepter isn't horrible) and Well and Shroud movement is a lot of fun but also makes sense for the space and spread they cover. 

Condi specter is anything but fast paced. Slow, boring, without satisfying spikes. In fact, specter has more run away skills then stay and fight. And I was always in outnumbered fights. Usually last man standing when running with others. But all mute now. I can't nor will I forgive                          anet for killing off deadeye.

[kash.9213]

49 minutes ago, Bern.9613 said:

Condi specter is anything but fast paced. Slow, boring, without satisfying spikes. In fact, specter has more run away skills then stay and fight. And I was always in outnumbered fights. Usually last man standing when running with others. But all mute now. I can't nor will I forgive                          anet for killing off deadeye.

Which are the run away skills? Think of Wells as your new kicks to step around with. They pressure as much as you can step away with them, the range isn't great but it's enough reach to work an area around a group or squad. They also set a pace and lane for your group depending on the steps you lead with. Playing condi and power specter feels about the same for me, it's mostly the same movement.

I get it if you're just not feeling it but maybe mess around with it without being super serious once in awhile and hit up different scale fights, incase you have a need to run a specter build at some point, but also just to have stupid fun for a minute. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by kash.9213

[Mincsk.6028]

On 7/25/2022 at 9:16 PM, ASP.8093 said:

Lol. Come on now.

More cleanse and more initiative (= more DPS) is exactly what you need to bring down the stupid condi tank builds. When you sit in stealth they just get their cooldowns back and you have to start the process of whittling them down all over again.

Not if you can't fire your burst because it depends on stealth access which was gutted. And tbh I saw some information that showed the balance team didn't exactly know how to deal with thief then nerfed it anyways. That to me is a red flag I can't unsee and the nerfed stealth feels like a 50% reduction to access+ length combine. I can't unfeel the clunkiness when playing my core and de. I've not enjoyed specter so being forced into it feels wrong.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Mincsk.6028

[ASP.8093]

10 hours ago, Mincsk.6028 said:

Not if you can't fire your burst because it depends on stealth access which was gutted. And tbh I saw some information that showed the balance team didn't exactly know how to deal with thief then nerfed it anyways. That to me is a red flag I can't unsee and the nerfed stealth feels like a 50% reduction to access+ length combine. I can't unfeel the clunkiness when playing my core and de. I've not enjoyed specter so being forced into it feels wrong.

I've played Deadly Arts Daredevil a bunch in SPvP (until the ill-considered previous round of nerfs — now reverted — ended up forcing you into Shadow Arts by jacking up the base cooldowns of all Deception skills). You absolutely don't need the +1 sec stealth duration to land a Backstab. It also didn't affect stealth stacked by combo fields, anyway.

The new changes mostly affect Death's Judgement timing after a dodge roll, since 1 second stealth is shorter than stealth granted by other abilities. But you can still queue up the attack as your stealth is already expiring. 2 sec stealth on every dodge was also, let's be honest, a ton of stealth for very low cost. And this does give Anet the space to tune up some of the stealth durations by 0.5 sec or 1 sec now that they don't have to go "but Shadow Arts!!" every time they design or tweak a skill.

Edited July 27, 2022 by ASP.8093

[Mincsk.6028]

7 hours ago, ASP.8093 said:

I've played Deadly Arts Daredevil a bunch in SPvP (until the ill-considered previous round of nerfs — now reverted — ended up forcing you into Shadow Arts by jacking up the base cooldowns of all Deception skills). You absolutely don't need the +1 sec stealth duration to land a Backstab. It also didn't affect stealth stacked by combo fields, anyway.

The new changes mostly affect Death's Judgement timing after a dodge roll, since 1 second stealth is shorter than stealth granted by other abilities. But you can still queue up the attack as your stealth is already expiring. 2 sec stealth on every dodge was also, let's be honest, a ton of stealth for very low cost. And this does give Anet the space to tune up some of the stealth durations by 0.5 sec or 1 sec now that they don't have to go "but Shadow Arts!!" every time they design or tweak a skill.

I like your optimism but from what I read it looks like the balance dev doesn't seem to care much about thief. The change to mesmer staff is a direct result of dev playing mesmer not because the profession needed anything, meaning if the dev doesn't play thief, only against thief then nerfs are the result. That's how I view this change. And about the devs "now able to fix blabla" Trust is earned not given imo. 

ps. I needed that extra second of stealth for backstab. I'm old and have carpal tunnel issues from an old factory job.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Mincsk.6028