Spoilers (just incase) for nightmare tower release, concerning Nightmare court.

[Kalavier.1097]

So, the new letters we can find in the nightmare tower shed some interesting light on the status of the court as of Season 1.

The Twilight Arbor attack (Aetherpath and regular paths), story instances from PS, and the Toxic alliance have severely bled the Nightmare court of high ranking members as well as recruits, as a lot of members flock to the Toxic alliance for the chances to cause chaos on a grand scale.

But we also finally get some information on the famous duchess of the nightmare court from Dragon's Stand in Heart of Thorns.

The letter from one courtier to another describes her as already being Duchess at that point, but leading a "Liberal" group of Nightmare courtiers who are concerned about Tyria growing tired of the court's violence and attacks, and wiping them out entirely. It's not a lot, but it does help fill in a gap about why she appeared to help fight Mordremoth (beyond freedom from him). Get a good mark with the Pact, and lead her followers into seclusion to prevent them from being targeted should something go down.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

The letter about Chysnathea is a bit weird to me. Definitely feels like they're going the redeeming Courtier way, similar to Efram, but it kind of conflicts with the lore of the Nightmare to have such a faction. The entire notion of the Nightmare in core is that it irrevocably (and permanently according to Caithe) changes the individual. Tiachren is a prime example, turning from a noble protector and lover into, well, to quote:

Tiachren: Let us celebrate our union with fire and blood. We'll make the Pale Tree gorge herself upon the pain of these dreamers!

Even the most honorable of Courtiers we've met, Gavin, is very much a "kill the useless and weak" kind of figure. So it's weird to see talk of a faction who's turning against this brainwashing...

[Kalavier.1097]

1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

The letter about Chysnathea is a bit weird to me. Definitely feels like they're going the redeeming Courtier way, similar to Efram, but it kind of conflicts with the lore of the Nightmare to have such a faction. The entire notion of the Nightmare in core is that it irrevocably (and permanently according to Caithe) changes the individual. Tiachren is a prime example, turning from a noble protector and lover into, well, to quote:

Tiachren: Let us celebrate our union with fire and blood. We'll make the Pale Tree gorge herself upon the pain of these dreamers!

Even the most honorable of Courtiers we've met, Gavin, is very much a "kill the useless and weak" kind of figure. So it's weird to see talk of a faction who's turning against this brainwashing...

It's unclear how exactly they mean it, but partly it sounds like just trying to avoid getting as much attention from the outside world. Like I said in the past here, the court survived a long time because it simply isn't on the radar of other factions/nations so it's not worth the effort to hunt down.

So we got the chaotic "Burn the world" ones who went to the Toxic alliance, and "liberal" ones concerned with drawing undue attention from say, the Krytan military or the Pact. Fitting, if Twilight Arbor gutted the leadership of the Court and threw it into a temporary chaos.

[Saltybizkit.7821]

I've only now been able to catch up with these LW updates, and I must say I love these little tidbits of information we got. Especially the mention of Chrysantea, since this has always just been a weird unexplained factor with the introduction of  heart of thorns. The narrative makes a bit more sense now. 

 

Wouldn't it be a normal thing to have revolting subgroups form within a bigger, dominant and hierarchical organization? Especially for the relatively young nightmare court. It makes sense that with the dwindling court's numbers and chaotic division in the ranks there is more room for other voices to be heard and position themselves, such as apparantly Chrysanthea and her followers. And it wouldn't seem unlikely that courtiers are able to overthrow their current leadership when faced with large scale threats. Organizations develop, learn, grow and adapt. It could well be a survival strategy to pose themselves as redemptionists for the sake of survival, but it also makes for a much  more interesting narrative to have the nightmare court realize the ineffective side of their methods in times of crisis and seeking a way to ensure their existance. This could open up a whole new development to explore, and I do hope we can see more of it in the future. 

[Jimbru.6014]

It's important to note that what you're talking about is all PRE Heart of Thorns in the game's timeline. Mordremoth hadn't yet risen.

At the start of HoT, Mordremoth's call decimated the Sylvari race as a whole, even taking many who were theoretically protected by the Pale Tree. The Nightmare Court and Soundless,  having rejected the protection of the Pale Tree, were among the first to fall and suffered especially heavily. Supporting their great losses is the fact that we've heard NOTHING from the Nightmare Court in the game story since the end of HoT (though to be fair, we've also not heard much about the Pale Tree or Sylvari in general either). The relatively few members of the Nightmare Court who survived Mordremoth are hiding out, and probably undertaking serious self-examination without the living Nightmare to drive them. What's left in the Dream is but a shadow of what the Nightmare once was, and the Court has to reckon with that in terms of its motives and actions, which I wager many of them now find reprehensible. I imagine it kind of like Michael Douglas having his moment of realization in "Falling Down" -- "You mean I'M the bad guy?"

On that note, maybe it's not impossible for the Court to re-assimilate back into Sylvari society after all. I can imagine a Courtier having an existential crisis like I just described, and suddenly feeling a gentle spiritual touch...

"...Mother?"

"Yes. You haven't called me that in a long time. Welcome home, if you wish."

"But..."

"No buts. You lot always complained about me dominating you, which I deliberately didn't. It was a lie you told yourself to justify walking away, and I let you do it. But even so, you are still my child, and so I left the door open for you. The rest is up to you, like it always has been. You just didn't know it until now."

Of course, like veterans with PTSD and others who have seen things they can't unsee, those who have experienced the Nightmare will never be the same again. But it's not too hard to imagine a former Courtier as a rebellious goth type of character, one who still gets a smile from their own shadow as they stand in the light. In fact, I may make a character now on that model. We'll see.

Edited December 30, 2022 by Jimbru.6014

[Jimbru.6014]

Another point of thought: what about very young Sylvari, the "Third Born" as it were, those born since the end of HoT? One would think the Nightmare would be less influential on them, making them less likely to become Courtiers. Of course, there will always be some fraction of the Sylvari who reject the Pale Tree for their own reasons; that's just the nature of individuals. But it feels reasonable to think that fewer Sylvari would choose to join the Nightmare Court after HoT.

Edited December 30, 2022 by Jimbru.6014

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

4 hours ago, Jimbru.6014 said:

The Nightmare Court and Soundless,  having rejected the protection of the Pale Tree, were among the first to fall and suffered especially heavily.

We actually don't have proof of this claim. We see several Nightmare Courtiers fare well enough in the Heart of Maguuma, and during the limited time Mordremoth's Minions Invade event, there was dialogue showing that Mordremoth's call did not make it even as far as Brisban - let alone to the tiny Soundless in Caledon Forest. And this was despite mordrem showing up in Brisban, Kessex, and Diessa - which gets referenced by Canach in the HoT prologue.

We frankly have no idea what the percentage would be of survivors or casualties among either community - or sylvari at large. But in general, it doesn't seem to have been that bad, since no one ever mentioned staggering sylvari casualties, unlike with Lion's Arch or the Pact.

4 hours ago, Jimbru.6014 said:

Supporting their great losses is the fact that we've heard NOTHING from the Nightmare Court in the game story since the end of HoT (though to be fair, we've also not heard much about the Pale Tree or Sylvari in general either).

I'd attribute this first and foremost to there just being no story beats related to the sylvari.

4 hours ago, Jimbru.6014 said:

The relatively few members of the Nightmare Court who survived Mordremoth are hiding out, and probably undertaking serious self-examination without the living Nightmare to drive them. What's left in the Dream is but a shadow of what the Nightmare once was, and the Court has to reckon with that in terms of its motives and actions, which I wager many of them now find reprehensible.

I'm not sure where you get this idea from. The Nightmare's presence wasn't related to either Mordremoth nor the quantity of Nightmare Courtiers - Courtiers spread it, but it was established as something that would be permanently affixed to the Dream. And HoT more or less blatantly established that Mordremoth was not behind either the Dream nor the Nightmare (though early drafts did set it up as S2 was hinting - that Mordremoth == Nightmare, but in that draft, all Nightmare Courtiers were serving Mordremoth instantly).

4 hours ago, Jimbru.6014 said:

Another point of thought: what about very young Sylvari, the "Third Born" as it were, those born since the end of HoT? One would think the Nightmare would be less influential on them, making them less likely to become Courtiers. Of course, there will always be some fraction of the Sylvari who reject the Pale Tree for their own reasons; that's just the nature of individuals. But it feels reasonable to think that fewer Sylvari would choose to join the Nightmare Court after HoT.

Thirdborn would be, at the very latest, the generation the PC is a part of. Canach does mention Fifthborn in PoF, though it's hard to know if he's being serious because come on, it's Canach. Sarcasm is his native language. Additionally, sylvari on a whole simply stopped counting the generations after the Secondborn because the gaps between them kept getting smaller while the size of the generations got larger. By the start of the game, sylvari were being perpetually awakened.

I like to headcanon that Fifthborn is the actual generation of the Pact Commander and Canach was being snide to their younger sibling (if PC is sylvari that is).

 

That said, since there's zero reason to believe the NIghtmare's influence is any lesser after HoT, I wouldn't say newly awakened sylvari are less prone to fall to Nightmare. Though devs did say that no sylvari wakes up fallen to Nightmare immediately, but there is dialogue in-game suggesting some feel more drawn to it than others upon awakening. However, I'd say the massive amount of trauma, PTSD born from Mordremoth's call, the turncoats, and massive deaths and being stranded in the jungle would severely increase the presence of Nightmare in the Dream of Dreams, and thus mean that the Nightmare Court should get a pretty sizeable boon once the Pale Tree began popping out her fully grown babies again.

[Kalavier.1097]

On 12/30/2022 at 1:42 PM, Jimbru.6014 said:

Another point of thought: what about very young Sylvari, the "Third Born" as it were, those born since the end of HoT? One would think the Nightmare would be less influential on them, making them less likely to become Courtiers. Of course, there will always be some fraction of the Sylvari who reject the Pale Tree for their own reasons; that's just the nature of individuals. But it feels reasonable to think that fewer Sylvari would choose to join the Nightmare Court after HoT.

There is a few labeled "thirdborn" in the game, though in general after secondborn the titles became meaningless due to rate/number of Sylvari appearing.

On 12/30/2022 at 1:22 PM, Jimbru.6014 said:

 

At the start of HoT, Mordremoth's call decimated the Sylvari race as a whole, even taking many who were theoretically protected by the Pale Tree. The Nightmare Court and Soundless,  having rejected the protection of the Pale Tree, were among the first to fall and suffered especially heavily. Supporting their great losses is the fact that we've heard NOTHING from the Nightmare Court in the game story since the end of HoT (though to be fair, we've also not heard much about the Pale Tree or Sylvari in general either). The relatively few members of the Nightmare Court who survived Mordremoth are hiding out, and probably undertaking serious self-examination without the living Nightmare to drive them.

The nightmare isn't Mordremoth, though the one leader of the Court we have is noted to have withdrawn the Nightmare Courts actions even further into "Only dealing with Sylvari" in an effort to prevent the other races of Tyria deciding the Court is a danger that cannot be allowed to remain and wipe them out.

As said, we haven't had story beats for the Sylvari, so like most things we don't know the exact status of things until we revisit them. Though the Sylvari race wasn't really described or mentioned to be hard hit, and Sylvari turning to Mordrem wasn't mentioned as a major problem going outside of the jungle.