List of wishes and advices for Untamed

[Zaret.1450]

I think it might be better to have a wish list of changes and things we want for untamed, id do the same for other elites/classes but im too lazy XD, feel free to add things about druid/soulbeast.

 

Ok lets start with a favourite, FF, in pve it is too strong, in wvw it isnt that used and for pvp... i dont play pvp sry, id say that FF just needs a number change in pve, instead of 4 seconds make it 3 or 2.5 seconds, just that would mean you end up reducing mich much less cd on your skills at the end of a fight, so the dmg wouldnt be that high, but wont fall to hell either, in wvw its more of a problem landing the cc than the reduction itself, maybe 3 seconds would be more rewarding for a more difficult to land trait.

As for the other 2 traits,  FS isnt bad, but isnt reliable either because pets are just not reliable in wvw, in pve its better but again pets drag it down a bit, and the last is a survival trait, maybe giving regen too would be good.

Now for the ambush skills, i understand they wanted to make hammer unique, but hammer having 5-6 ambush skills plus other 5 leashed skills is more than unique, the problem i have with other weapons ambush are the following:

 you need to rotate between leashed and unleashed to activate them, i understand it is that kind of mecanic, but out of hammer it is not rewarding enought mainly because of the following points.

 it has icd i mean that not only you need leash unleash rotations but also to wait for the icd to go off so you have the skill again.

 it is on the AA slot and also it has a timer, if you dont use it for whatever reason you have to rotate again to get it back

 It is not rewarding enought, moat of this skills are pretty good, area dmg, with the posibility of traiting to strip boons and getting more dmg, theyre plenty good but the downsides make it so they arent realy that good nor used.

Now how would i change it, id make all ambushes become the 2 skill of every weapon by default when unleashing, meaning you will allwais have them when you unleash, no icd no timer, it would be a cuality of live thing for them, and it is just one skill, hammer still would have the 5 normal plus the ambush tornado, so enought diferences, and hammer is pretty good itself, now the trait about boon strip would stay as is, i mean those skills would still be able to strip boons and get more dmg if traited, just add hammer 2 to the list and it would be good to go, remember that FF is nerfed so some buffs would be good, and you can allwais lower a bit the %dmg increase if needed.

So now untamed would have a reliable source of strips and area dmg on ambush skills, wich is good for wvw zergs, but as those skills are more centered about aoe one on one fights wont suffer that much.

Now pets, for me untamed is the elite that makes pets more relevant, or should be, at first i thoight unleashed status affected both ranger and pet, but it didnt, the dmg increase when unleashed, and dmg reduction while leashed should be something both the ranger and the pet have, make it so the unleashed side is more vulnerable and hits harder while the leased one is more tanky and hits less, a 20% increase on ranger and 10% on pet, with the downsides being 10% or 5% on both.

To finish with pets, pets have their related traits spread between beastmastery and nature magic, please, just one trait, the trait that makes ranger share boons with the pet, move it to beast mastery, or make like mecanist and put it as passive in a skill, id say "we heal as one", with that as a passive instead of an active it would be heaven for ranger, pets arent even as strong as mecs so please just this one thing, id also ask for a reduction in the health pool nerf  pets have in wvw but if i get the other changes im more than happy.

For me this is what untamed needs most, at least for wvw, on pve this changes would help too but it wouldnt be something huge, just some help for when FF is nerfed, but in wvw it could make a zerg untamed viable, could, but hey its worth triing.

[Kodama.6453]

We heal as one is a shout, shouts don't have passive effects.

If you really want to go the same route as mechanist, then go the full way and put the boon share on a skill type which actually has passives: signets.

The signet I would personally suggest for such a mechanic would be the signet of renewal. To my knowledge, that skill is never taken anywhere. The passive healing just isn't justifying to take it. It also seems quite fitting, the passive shares boons with the pet and the active pulls conditions to it..

 

[Zaret.1450]

3 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

We heal as one is a shout, shouts don't have passive effects.

If you really want to go the same route as mechanist, then go the full way and put the boon share on a skill type which actually has passives: signets.

The signet I would personally suggest for such a mechanic would be the signet of renewal. To my knowledge, that skill is never taken anywhere. The passive healing just isn't justifying to take it. It also seems quite fitting, the passive shares boons with the pet and the active pulls conditions to it..

 

could be cool

[Ashford.8540]

Remove or nerf FF and untamed is back to being garbage in PVE which means back to the one trick pony that is soulbeast.

Fun Ranger detected!

Nerfs Erected!

One spec class redirected.

 

Honestly, only way to fix/remove FF at all is to allow untamed to switch weapons without a cooldown, which means the spec can have more options for damage.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Ashford.8540

[Zaret.1450]

5 hours ago, Ashford.8540 said:

Remove or nerf FF and untamed is back to being garbage in PVE which means back to the one trick pony that is soulbeast.

Fun Ranger detected!

Nerfs Erected!

One spec class redirected.

 

Honestly, only way to fix/remove FF at all is to allow untamed to switch weapons without a cooldown, which means the spec can have more options for damage.

that makes no sense at all, like, it is true FF is a strong trait, and it is true that it would be difficult to nerf, but it is a trait that works differently in pve and wvw, in wvw it only reduces 2 seconds instead of 4, and that difference is pretty visible, but if instead of 2 or 4, it was 3 seconds... well it is a nerf, but not one overly big, if untamed is now 43k or so it would probably go to 40 or 39k at most in pve, while in wvw if you made it 3 secs itd be the meta trait, its not that difficult to land cc on hammer on a zerg fight, moreso if you entangle first for example, while FS in wvw zergs is a no go and the last is just life steal, wich isnt that good either on zergs.

Now once FF is a bit nerfed (its not even that big of a nerf) you could work on other things, kodama idea on signet of renewal is probably the best idea for pet boons, not only dmg in pve but also regen, protect and other defensive boons would make pets more viable for zerg fights (at least so we can use more the unleashed pet skills).

Also we can all agree that unleashed ambush skills are a bother, they have cd, you need to keep leashing and unleashing, they have a time gap and if you dont use them they dissapear, and they stay on the AA skill slot, make them permanent like hammer, a leashed version and an unleashed version, preferably skill 2 id say, more area dmg, a reliable boon strip(just put icd on the trait, like once every 10 seconds, or maybe each 6 seconds dunno) and untamed would be much better for wvw zerg fights, more reliable area dmg on all weapons, reliable boon strip, better pets, just enought to be viable, and no i dont think pve dmg would suffer that much with this change, i mean hammer could maintain its ambush as is to be more "unique" and thats all.

[Ashford.8540]

5 hours ago, zaswer.5246 said:

that makes no sense at all, like, it is true FF is a strong trait, and it is true that it would be difficult to nerf, but it is a trait that works differently in pve and wvw, in wvw it only reduces 2 seconds instead of 4, and that difference is pretty visible, but if instead of 2 or 4, it was 3 seconds... well it is a nerf, but not one overly big, if untamed is now 43k or so it would probably go to 40 or 39k at most in pve, while in wvw if you made it 3 secs itd be the meta trait, its not that difficult to land cc on hammer on a zerg fight, moreso if you entangle first for example, while FS in wvw zergs is a no go and the last is just life steal, wich isnt that good either on zergs.

Now once FF is a bit nerfed (its not even that big of a nerf) you could work on other things, kodama idea on signet of renewal is probably the best idea for pet boons, not only dmg in pve but also regen, protect and other defensive boons would make pets more viable for zerg fights (at least so we can use more the unleashed pet skills).

Also we can all agree that unleashed ambush skills are a bother, they have cd, you need to keep leashing and unleashing, they have a time gap and if you dont use them they dissapear, and they stay on the AA skill slot, make them permanent like hammer, a leashed version and an unleashed version, preferably skill 2 id say, more area dmg, a reliable boon strip(just put icd on the trait, like once every 10 seconds, or maybe each 6 seconds dunno) and untamed would be much better for wvw zerg fights, more reliable area dmg on all weapons, reliable boon strip, better pets, just enought to be viable, and no i dont think pve dmg would suffer that much with this change, i mean hammer could maintain its ambush as is to be more "unique" and thats all.

Only issue with your idea is that Anet usually overkills on the nerfs, it's very rare for a nerf to be that reasonable, and Anet did say their plan was leaning towards removing sooooooo.........I mean your idea is better but nah.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Ashford.8540

[Zaret.1450]

55 minutes ago, Ashford.8540 said:

Only issue with your idea is that Anet usually overkills on the nerfs, it's very rare for a nerf to be that reasonable, and Anet did say their plan was leaning towards removing sooooooo.........I mean your idea is better but nah.

Hey scrappers cried oceans about gyros and anet didnt transform them into wells, and the latest changes have been... reasonable, maybe if we also spam theyll hear us XD

[Kodama.6453]

15 hours ago, zaswer.5246 said:

Hey scrappers cried oceans about gyros and anet didnt transform them into wells, and the latest changes have been... reasonable, maybe if we also spam theyll hear us XD

Anet still plans to rework scrapper gyros. The only reason why they back paddled was because the feedback was that they wanted to make gyros into the same type of wells like necromancer's, without a new mechanic.

If you look at elite specs, they usually all have a unique twist to the utility skills. 3 classes got wells with elite specs, but they all works differently from the core necro wells.
Chronomancer wells tick 3 times, with the final tick having a stronger effect.
Scrapper wells are PBAoEs around the scrapper, travelling with them.
Specter wells make the specter shadowstep to their destination, then create the well effect.

Anet just said that they are now working on a unique and interesting mechanic for scrapper wells, to keep this going that elite spec utilities have a unique twist for their gameplay. Their first proposed rework ignored that, making them generic wells just like core necromancer.

So the complaints didn't really make them not reworking gyros, they just are doing it later when they figured out a mechanic.
____________________________

So point is: It is very unlikely that complaints will make Anet change their stance on fervent force. They are already delaying to remove it by working on untamed to make it desirable before pulling fervent force. But just like the gyro reworks, fervent force will most likely still get hit in the future.

[draxynnic.3719]

The main thing with FF is that they're aware of how much it props Untamed up, and they don't want to take that crutch away until they're confident that Untamed can stand without it. So it's probably going to die, but not without a set of compensatory buffs. They just need to figure out how they can get Untamed to work well without FF.

Edited December 23, 2022 by draxynnic.3719

[Dadnir.5038]

Wish list...

Core:

• Better control over the various pet skills. If it's possible for Untamed and Mechanist it should be possible for core ranger, druid and soulbeast. In fact, I'd love it if the devs could make use of the pet management pannel (contrary to what they do with Untamed).
• A round of balance for the F2 skills. Make those skills worth using and not crippling (most cast times are too long and the output of the skills tend to be extremly disappointing)
• Signet of renewal passive effect to be stronger... Or different, I can accept a 10-20% damage reduction to condition damage.
• Entangle to be a trap skill instead of a survival skill.
• Axe AA ricochet to have it's might stack replaced by a bleed stack on hit.

Druid:

• A bit of raw damage added to the avatar skills.
• An evade frame on ancestral grace.
• An increase to solar beam coefficient.
• A change to grace of the land (Even if it's a popular one, I just hate this trait and that's my wishes so...)

Soulbeast:

• Fresh reinforcement and unstoppable union to get some effects on pet swap while using eternal bond.

Untamed:

• I'm not a huge fan of the hammer having 2 skillsets, can't we get a middleground?
• I'd like FF to have different effects based on whether the untamed is unleashed or not (for consistency with debilitating blow and enhancing impact)
• Ferocious symbiosis effects shouldn't be dependant on the pet hitting. It's to unreliable.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Dadnir.5038

[Zaret.1450]

8 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Wish list...

Core:

• Better control over the various pet skills. If it's possible for Untamed and Mechanist it should be possible for core ranger, druid and soulbeast. In fact, I'd love it if the devs could make use of the pet management pannel (contrary to what they do with Untamed).
• A round of balance for the F2 skills. Make those skills worth using and not crippling (most cast times are too long and the output of the skills tend to be extremly disappointing)
• Signet of renewal passive effect to be stronger... Or different, I can accept a 10-20% damage reduction to condition damage.
• Entangle to be a trap skill instead of a survival skill.
• Axe AA ricochet to have it's might stack replaced by a bleed stack on hit.

Druid:

• A bit of raw damage added to the avatar skills.
• An evade frame on ancestral grace.
• An increase to solar beam coefficient.
• A change to grace of the land (Even if it's a popular one, I just hate this trait and that's my wishes so...)

Soulbeast:

• Fresh reinforcement and unstoppable union to get some effects on pet swap while using eternal bond.

Untamed:

• I'm not a huge fan of the hammer having 2 skillsets, can't we get a middleground?
• I'd like FF to have different effects based on whether the untamed is unleashed or not (for consistency with debilitating blow and enhancing impact)
• Ferocious symbiosis effects shouldn't be dependant on the pet hitting. It's to unreliable.

Oh you remembered me of something, for pets it could be cool if we could change some of the comands, i mean instead of attack or come back it could be good to have a comand that worked on targeted areas, i mean, for example just have the mouse on a spot and order the pet to protect that spot(basicaly attack things on that area, pet cant leave the designated area radius, say it is 900 for example, and if it dies or smth it just comes back) and instead of come back a comand for stay close, i mean like the aggressive mode but it wont go farther than say 400 range or something, then passive mode and agrresive could mean just how it acts on start, i mean aggresive it attacks anything in range, comanded or not, and passive it wont attack unless provocked or comanded, i think this would be much more reliable and possibly a better option for everyone.

Also i do like how hammer works, it is a bit like an attunement or a shrowd, and you just need to remember, leash for tank and cc, unleash for dmg, if FF dies then you wont need to worry that much about swapping as it will be much less important overall, in fact id like them to apply hammer idea to all weapons, ambushes are just horrible implementation and drag untamed down when they could be awesome.

I mean skills that give ranger more area viability and the posibility to strip boons too, but theyre locked behind 3 things, the leash unleash mecanic with an icd to their use, the timer they have, wich means use them or you need to leash and unleash again, and then them being in the autoattack slot, meaning sometimes you dont want them but they activate and its horrible.

Make them permanent skill 2 variants for unleashed weapons, just that, the other skills can stay the same, even hammer can still have the ambush as is it doesnt realy care, but for others make them permanent and just make the strip boon trait have an icd of say 5 seconds, 2 boons from 5 targets each 5 seconds, or maybe each 8 seconds would be better, but with that wed have a great boon strip, with entangles and good area dmg, with bubble for project, and if pets were good imagine.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

I've said these in other threads but...

Need to move unleash skills off the AA as it currently pretty much breaks hammer if you have AA on (and if you don't you lose quite a bit of DPS potential).

Fervent Force should just apply to Cantrips.