Bladesworn should not provide group alacrity

[Volcanis.4872]

Instead, Berserker should provide group alacrity and Spellbreaker should provide group quickness. Here’s why:

1. Berserker depends on alacrity to enter Berserk as often as possible. Even open world and competitive Berserker builds would appreciate some alacrity. 
2. Core Warrior will still be able to provide group quickness with Martial Cadence and Warhorn 4 Charge mainly for support Spellbreaker builds in competitive modes. If the balance team wants support Spellbreaker to provide quickness, simply make it the group quickness spec. One argument is Berserker is more thematic to provide quickness, but I would counter that Willbender and Renegade are more thematic to provide quickness - and they both provide alacrity. Also, with the right balance, quickness heal Shoutbreaker could be meta in all game modes providing Warrior with a good support option.
3. Daring Dragon doesn’t make intuitive sense to provide group alacrity. I’m sure Anet can make up a reason why it does, but I think slashing with a gunsaber should not spit out boons to the party.

Therefore, here are my simple suggestions:

1. Heat the Soul will now provide group alacrity instead of quickness (but on skill activation, not on hit)
2. Revenge Counter will now provide group quickness instead of resistance (Full Counter will provide quickness on skill activation, not on hit)
3. Revert Daring Dragon

One critique is these boons will only provide quickness and alacrity in combat (like Willbender). My additional suggestion is to increase the amount of adrenaline of skills and traits that grant adrenaline. For example, Mace 2 and Sword 5 Adrenaline Rush could provide 15 adrenaline (15 to account for decay out of combat) so Berserker and Spellbreaker can use F1 and F2 respectively in preparation of combat after using Adrenaline Rush. 

[JTGuevara.9018]

Bladesworn is the spec most geared toward support (I should say that's by accident...) thanks to its shouts so it makes sense that this spec is where alacrity is granted rather than spellbreaker.

But still, what does it even matter?...

Boon support is going to be tied to the warrior burst, which means that warrior cannot grant boons unless they are in combat.

Instead of doing sensible things for the class like having a trait grant alacrity via shouts or (get ready for it)...leave the quickness on the banners, you...do this...

Edited June 10, 2023 by JTGuevara.9018
add

[DanAlcedo.3281]

On 6/10/2023 at 11:08 PM, JTGuevara.9018 said:

Bladesworn is the spec most geared toward support (I should say that's by accident...) thanks to its shouts so it makes sense that this spec is where alacrity is granted rather than spellbreaker.

But still, what does it even matter?...

Boon support is going to be tied to the warrior burst, which means that warrior cannot grant boons unless they are in combat.

Instead of doing sensible things for the class like having a trait grant alacrity via shouts or (get ready for it)...leave the quickness on the banners, you...do this...

What synergy does Bladesworn have with shouts? 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

7 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

What synergy does Bladesworn have with shouts? 

Being able to use them without cancelling Dragon Trigger.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

52 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Being able to use them without cancelling Dragon Trigger.

Just recently I was told on YouTube to try out Shoutsworn if I want a heal Warrior. 

I just can't anymore 😔

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Just recently I was told on YouTube to try out Shoutsworn if I want a heal Warrior. 

I just can't anymore 😔

I mean... it is the only way at the moment. It is just lacking in a few key spots.

[feeper.5287]

On 6/10/2023 at 5:08 PM, JTGuevara.9018 said:

Bladesworn is the spec most geared toward support (I should say that's by accident...) thanks to its shouts so it makes sense that this spec is where alacrity is granted rather than spellbreaker.

But still, what does it even matter?...

Boon support is going to be tied to the warrior burst, which means that warrior cannot grant boons unless they are in combat.

Instead of doing sensible things for the class like having a trait grant alacrity via shouts or (get ready for it)...leave the quickness on the banners, you...do this...

Leaving quickness on banners has a few issues. One, having a core class be able to provide group quickness or alacrity is a slippery slope in terms of design and balance. The bigger issue is having your quick application tied to banners means the boons from banners are essentially useless because you can't reactively use the stability on Banner of Tactics for example since you need to use it off CD to provide quick

[feeper.5287]

Being able to apply these boons (more so alacrity) outside of combat would definitely be a huge plus. I personally see Berserker as a big "unga bunga" dps and don't think a support build makes any sense for it but you could say the same of Bladesworn. The issue is all the warrior elite specs are kinda just different flavors of dps right now. Berserker def wants perma alac more than the other two so I agree there (although it not providing alac might actually be a benefit in this case since you can pair it with HAM or druid or whtevr). I do think SPB should've gotten one of the key boons. It's the most "support" feeling warrior spec and it's entire identity is about boons so feels like a no brainer to me

[JTGuevara.9018]

1 hour ago, feeper.5287 said:

Leaving quickness on banners has a few issues. One, having a core class be able to provide group quickness or alacrity is a slippery slope in terms of design and balance. The bigger issue is having your quick application tied to banners means the boons from banners are essentially useless because you can't reactively use the stability on Banner of Tactics for example since you need to use it off CD to provide quick

No, they're not really useless, there's not enough boon output on them (without speccing into concentration anyway...). Also, core guardian can easily put out boons.

 

1 hour ago, feeper.5287 said:

Being able to apply these boons (more so alacrity) outside of combat would definitely be a huge plus. I personally see Berserker as a big "unga bunga" dps and don't think a support build makes any sense for it but you could say the same of Bladesworn. The issue is all the warrior elite specs are kinda just different flavors of dps right now. Berserker def wants perma alac more than the other two so I agree there (although it not providing alac might actually be a benefit in this case since you can pair it with HAM or druid or whtevr). I do think SPB should've gotten one of the key boons. It's the most "support" feeling warrior spec and it's entire identity is about boons so feels like a no brainer to me

This I agree. Berzerker has NEVER been ANY sort of support for its entire existence. The quickness that it always gave was to itself. Now...depending on how much quickness it grants in this update should it go live, warrior might have to take Tactics just to keep up. (So much for build diversity eh...? ) Spellbreaker...no. The only reason it "feels" like a support is because it is (surprise) based around the burst (Full Counter). In the early spellbreaker days, it actually was a solid dps specialization.

[feeper.5287]

40 minutes ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

No, they're not really useless, there's not enough boon output on them (without speccing into concentration anyway...). Also, core guardian can easily put out boons.

 

This I agree. Berzerker has NEVER been ANY sort of support for its entire existence. The quickness that it always gave was to itself. Now...depending on how much quickness it grants in this update should it go live, warrior might have to take Tactics just to keep up. (So much for build diversity eh...? ) Spellbreaker...no. The only reason it "feels" like a support is because it is (surprise) based around the burst (Full Counter). In the early spellbreaker days, it actually was a solid dps specialization.

Core guardian can't provide alacrity or a meaningful amount of quickness though. Core classes can and should provide boons just these two are so powerful it can be an issue. And you don't need any boon duration on quick Spellbreaker or Bladesworn with Double Standards and three banners (assuming you have a decent amount of alac which in instanced content you will). Berserker you usually run some so you can drop one banner for Outrage. The problem is how little flexibility you have with these builds not that they don't provide enough quickness. Also on your point with tactics, there isn't any quickness in that trait line anymore and Berserker runs Strength, Discipline, Berserker, not Tactics. Again, that is referring to instanced PvE endgame content.

Edited June 12, 2023 by feeper.5287

[JTGuevara.9018]

7 minutes ago, feeper.5287 said:

Core guardian can't provide alacrity or a meaningful amount of quickness though. Core classes can and should provide boons just these two are so powerful it can be an issue.

True. I guess that's why Firebrand exists, eh! The thing is, is that core warrior only has quickness banners as the cornerstone for its entire support. You take that away and banners are just toothpicks. I'm not against removing quickness (or alacrity), but replace it with something good. Either put boons on the banners or grant them in shouts or traits.

 

8 minutes ago, feeper.5287 said:

And you don't need any boon duration on quick Spellbreaker or Bladesworn with Double Standards and three banners (assuming you have a decent amount of alac which in instanced content you will). Berserker you usually run some so you can drop one banner for Outrage. The problem is how little flexibility you have with these builds not that they don't provide enough quickness. Also on your point with tactics, there isn't any quickness in that trait line anymore outside of the warhorn trait (which you aren't taking) and Berserker runs Strength, Discipline, Berserker, not Tactics. Again, that is referring to instanced PvE endgame content.

Don't forget Martial Cadence (Soldier's Focus grants quickness to affected allies.) . And yes, the flexibility problem is an age old problem with this class. Just look at Discipline. It's practically mandatory no matter what warriors do in this game minus open-world pve.

[feeper.5287]

Just now, JTGuevara.9018 said:

True. I guess that's why Firebrand exists, eh! The thing is, is that core warrior only has quickness banners as the cornerstone for its entire support. You take that away and banners are just toothpicks. I'm not against removing quickness (or alacrity), but replace it with something good. Either put boons on the banners or grant them in shouts or traits.

 

Don't forget Martial Cadence (Soldier's Focus grants quickness to affected allies.) . And yes, the flexibility problem is an age old problem with this class. Just look at Discipline. It's practically mandatory no matter what warriors do in this game minus open-world pve.

Martial Cadence gives stability now! And personally I think a ranged aoe stun break that gives superspeed stability and pulsing resistance, and another banner that gives regen, barrier and aegis at ranged are pretty good utility skills along with an aoe rez on the elite banner