Well, I lost interest in the class, maybe the game too.

[Lctl.6198]

39 minutes ago, Drizzly.4562 said:

The "we listened to your feedback" while ignoring all the feedback kinda did it for me. 

Lets be real - the only reason why it took them nearly a month to implement these follow up changes, was to make people come to terms that they won't do anything else from now on.

It worked imho. less and less people are being vocal about it, or even taking the time to come here and post their disappointment. 

[Drizzly.4562]

6 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

If the feedback is not inline with how Anet wants the game to work, of course they didn't adjust their plans.

Again ... the shade duration choice isn't some happy accident. It was purposefully chosen. But continue to ignore all that and think a volume of noise is what compels Anet to change their plans.  

You were already soundly shut down in the other thread.

[Obtena.7952]

Just now, Drizzly.4562 said:

You were already soundly shut down in the other thread.

That's OK ... believing you shutt me down has nothing to do with the reality of how Anet makes changes to the game. I do like the irony that the people that are upset that Anet ignored their feedback are also ignoring Anet's intent for how the game works, which is what is relevant here. 

[Drizzly.4562]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

That's OK ... believing you shutt me down has nothing to do with the reality of how Anet makes changes to the game. I do like the irony that the people that are upset that Anet ignored their feedback are also ignoring Anet's intent for how the game works, which is what is relevant here. 

Their failure to meet their own intentions is the problem.  You can stop trying.

[TashaFoxx.7862]

Just now, Drizzly.4562 said:

Their failure to meet their own intentions is the problem.  You can stop trying.

You assume they even HAVE stable, coherent intentions to begin with..

[Lctl.6198]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

That's OK ... believing you shutt me down has nothing to do with the reality of how Anet makes changes to the game. I do like the irony that the people that are upset that Anet ignored their feedback are also ignoring Anet's intent for how the game works, which is what is relevant here. 

When you are among the 0.1% being fine with how Anet is doing tuning, I suppose that is very telling on where your alignment lies, no ?

Perhaps you should see the perspective of the other 99.9% players, saying that it's a crap change and Anet is indeed ignoring their playerbase, in favour of "what they think it's best"
Anet is not always right, nor are the players always right, but when 99.9% is saying the same kitten, maybe it's time to actually listen ?

[Obtena.7952]

Just now, Drizzly.4562 said:

Their failure to meet their own intentions is the problem.  

No, I'm pretty sure their intention is to make Scourge an Alacrity Healer. That's obvious. They wouldn't cause this much upset to people if they don't really want to push that hard. 

[Acanthus.8120]

  

5 minutes ago, Lctl.6198 said:

Lets be real - the only reason why it took them nearly a month to implement these follow up changes, was to make people come to terms that they won't do anything else from now on.

It worked imho. less and less people are being vocal about it, or even taking the time to come here and post their disappointment. 

I mean, giving up in this context often means quitting. That's not really a good thing for anybody.

Just now, Drizzly.4562 said:

You were already soundly shut down in the other thread.

Tbh, I actually agree with Obtena is saying there in your quote. It probably was a purposeful change, and they likely won't change their mind no matter how much noise we make. It's just that we, the customers of the product, have the right to be the judge of the product we're receiving. Their intent for the game is irrelevant if we don't find it fun. Idk why he or she thinks that's ironic that we think such, but it's likely you're just being baited into a fight for their amusement.

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Lctl.6198 said:

When you are among the 0.1% being fine with how Anet is doing tuning, I suppose that is very telling on where your alignment lies, no ?

Perhaps you should see the perspective of the other 99.9% players, saying that it's a crap change and Anet is indeed ignoring their playerbase, in favour of "what they think it's best"
Anet is not always right, nor are the players always right, but when 99.9% is saying the same kitten, maybe it's time to actually listen ?

I'm just a realist and I've been around a long time to know that how people are interacting on the forum wasn't going to give them the result they wanted. Anet has a reason to make duration 8 seconds and there was no technical challenge to that change in the forum banter. It was all just emotion-based rants. That didn't work. 

The fact is that for years necro players wanted desirable features for teaming ... Anet is making that happen in the role-based scheme. If people didn't think that would have a significant impact on the specs and how they worked, they just weren't paying attention to the game and how that affected other specs and classes as well. 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Lctl.6198]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

I'm just a realist and I've been around a long time to know that how people are interacting on the forum wasn't going to give them the result they wanted. 

The fact is that for years necro players wanted desirable features for teaming ... Anet is making that happen in the role-based scheme. If people didn't think that would have a significant impact on the specs and how they worked, they just weren't paying attention to the game and how that affected other specs and classes as well. 

The whole HScourge (and Scourge overall) was *against* the Alac idea - so I don't know where you got that from.

 

Not to mention that if your playerbase is reacting so poorly to a specific change - it's their literal job to listen, not for us to eat their shiate and be happy about it

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Lctl.6198 said:

The whole HScourge (and Scourge overall) was *against* the Alac idea - 

Whether that's true or not is irrelevant. The more astute players understood that as just a base healer without other support features, Scourge would not be desirable. 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Drizzly.4562]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I'm just a realist and I've been around a long time to know that how people are interacting on the forum wasn't going to give them the result they wanted. Anet has a reason to make duration 8 seconds and there was no technical challenge to that change in the forum banter. It was all just emotion-based rants. That didn't work. 

The fact is that for years necro players wanted desirable features for teaming ... Anet is making that happen in the role-based scheme. If people didn't think that would have a significant impact on the specs and how they worked, they just weren't paying attention to the game and how that affected other specs and classes as well. 

You were told at length, as were the devs, that there were other, better options to meet that end.  Trying to pretend there is any other debate going on is pure Obtena posting.

[Lctl.6198]

Just now, Drizzly.4562 said:

You were told at length, as were the devs, that there were other, better options to meet that end.  Trying to pretend there is any other debate going on is pure Obtena posting.

At this point I've realized that he is just baiting and adding nothing to the discourse. Better to ignore it entirely

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Drizzly.4562 said:

You were told at length, as were the devs, that there were other, better options to meet that end.  

Sure ... and those ideas were simply not inline with how Anet is implementing the game. This is the flaw in that thinking ... believing Anet is out to fish for the 'best' options from players. They aren't. They are telling us what they are doing. Our best approach is to suggest changes that are within the scope of how Anet is making those changes. 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[TashaFoxx.7862]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Sure ... and those ideas were simply not inline with how Anet is implementing the game. This is the flaw in that thinking ... believing Anet is out to fish for the 'best' options from players. They aren't. 

So basically you admit anet is like restaurant owner that serves meals HE thinks are best, rather than what the customers ordered and paid for. Yikes.

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, GetFoxxed.9478 said:

So basically you admit anet is like restaurant owner that serves meals HE thinks are best, rather than what the customers ordered and paid for. 

No hold on ... when you go to a restaurant, you order from the menu. You don't go their if you don't like what is being offered and you don't offer money up from to get the privledge of telling the restaurant what food to offer and how to cook it. That's no different than what we have here. 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Acanthus.8120]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

NO hold on ... when you go to a restaurant, you order from the menu. You don't go their if you don't like what is being offered. 

What do you think a class-based system is?

[Obtena.7952]

Just now, Acanthus.8120 said:

What do you think a class-based system is?

Classes are just offerings on a menu. You choose. If the chef decides to cook it a way you don't like, you just choose something else or your don't eat there. 

[Acanthus.8120]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Classes are just offerings on a menu. You choose. If the chef decides to cook it a way you don't like, you just choose something else or your don't eat there. 

And what we're doing now is like arguing in the comments of a review.

[TashaFoxx.7862]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

NO hold on ... when you go to a restaurant, you order from the menu. You don't go their if you don't like what is being offered. You don't have the priveldge of telling the restaurant what food to offer and how to cook it. That's what we have here. 

I ordered strawberry ice cream from the menu, but then restaurant owner decided that my ice cream actually should be fish salad, and then poured some blackberry sauce on top of that salad as another change of mind. Bon apetit.

[Drizzly.4562]

4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

This is the flaw in that thinking ... believing Anet is out to fish for the 'best' options from players. They aren't. They are telling us what they are doing.

Right.

1 hour ago, Drizzly.4562 said:

The "we listened to your feedback" while ignoring all the feedback kinda did it for me. 

 

[Obtena.7952]

15 minutes ago, GetFoxxed.9478 said:

I ordered strawberry ice cream from the menu, but then restaurant owner decided that my ice cream actually should be fish salad, and then poured some blackberry sauce on top of that salad as another change of mind. Bon apetit.

That's not a relevant comparison because you couldn't order strawberry ice cream if the owner wasn't offering it anymore to begin with.

Believe what you like ... you play an MMO with a long history of significant class changes. Maybe you didn't know that ... or maybe you think that would never affect you as a player. Either way, if you think Anet is dealing with you unfairly as a customer, you have choices. It's that simple but don't think all the sudden, it's going to prevent Anet from developing the classes the way they want to provide people 'exceptions' to save their feelings. If people want their feedback to be meaningful, they do not ignore what Anet is doing to justify their own 'better' ideas about how the game should work.  

This is just ANOTHER example of this reality that people should try and learn from. 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Lctl.6198]

4 minutes ago, GetFoxxed.9478 said:

I ordered strawberry ice cream from the menu, but then restaurant owner decided that my ice cream actually should be fish salad, and then poured some blackberry sauce on top of that salad as another change of mind. Bon apetit.

dont feed the troll. It's just hiding the feedback that Shade Duration, shade usage and Core Changes to Necro did more harm to Scourge than good. That's the bottomline, and people like him shouldn't be given much credit since all he says is that " kitten and play it as Anet intended - not like how you enjoy it "

Edited July 18, 2023 by Lctl.6198

[Obtena.7952]

8 minutes ago, Lctl.6198 said:

It's just hiding the feedback that Shade Duration, shade usage and Core Changes to Necro did more harm to Scourge than good. 

Nothing has been hidden. In fact, people discussing the changes brings them out to the forefront and everyone making claims the changes were good or bad should be limiting the scope of their discussion to the changes themselves, not the people in the discussion. 

 

[Acanthus.8120]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Nothing has been hidden. In fact, people discussing the changes brings them out to the forefront and everyone making claims the changes were good or bad should be limiting the scope of their discussion to the changes themselves, not the people in the discussion.

25 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I'm just a realist and I've been around a long time to know that how people are interacting on the forum wasn't going to give them the result they wanted. Anet has a reason to make duration 8 seconds and there was no technical challenge to that change in the forum banter. It was all just emotion-based rants. That didn't work. 

The fact is that for years necro players wanted desirable features for teaming ... Anet is making that happen in the role-based scheme. If people didn't think that would have a significant impact on the specs and how they worked, they just weren't paying attention to the game and how that affected other specs and classes as well. 

Maybe practice what you preach.