Panda.1967 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 3 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said: WB being modeled after Shiro, a decidedly NOT guardian-like assassin, and not a ritualist, especially when Shiro is a revenant legend, is redundant, awful design. Period. I agree... the Shiro inspired spec should have been for Thief... which funny enough could have ALSO gotten off-hand sword if they had gone that route... I and many others that I know wanted a true Assassin spec for Thief with EoD... and a Ritualist based espec for Guardian would have been great... but they kinda killed all hope I had for that ever happening when they released the Revenant... besides, what weapon would they have given a Ritualist espec for Guardian? Guardian already has Staff, Scepter, & Focus... I guess maybe Warhorn could have worked... and I wonder if Urns would have replaced Virtues with Spirits as their new skill type... there are several things they could have done better but didn't... 3 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said: Firebrand - Axe 2 is as a runecarver, Axe 3 as a crook, and arguably Axe 1 as a wand. and? 2 is a Symbol skill on ALL guardian main-hands, 3 is always a utility for guardian main-hands, and 1 is your auto-attack it's largely irrelevant... following the same pattern as all guardian main-hands doesn't do anything to help it make sense... there is nothing about the Firebrand that demanded Axe... they could have given Firebrand a Dagger with the same exact skills if they wanted... it was a random and arbitrary main-hand weapon choice. It wasn't chosen due to Lore reasons, it wasn't chosen due to any GW1 homages, it was simply picked because it could be. 3 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said: Mirage - kinda loose but Axe 1 and 2 are kind of like a dust devil, Axe 3 as a clone fake out, ambush as something resembling throwing axes for a stage performance. Just like with Firebrand... Axe is basically just a condi version of Mesmer Sword with the clone generation and utility of 2 & 3 swapped around... it could have been any weapon... no one would have batted an eyelash if Mirage had been the one to get main-hand Dagger... though people would have complained about 3 professions getting daggers... Which BTW the fact they were giving Dagger to Warrior and Ranger is probably the only reason they didn't do dagger on either Firebrand or Mirage... 3 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said: Holosmith - sword 2 shoots projectiles, the only sword ability to do that outside of Zerker primal burst. Kinda thin I agree but not totally unimaginative like Vindi GS or WB sword. What it does is irrelevant... it could have been an axe, mace, or dagger and played the same way... Scepter may have been a better fit from a thematic standpoint if I'm completely honest... and I know what you're thinking "but that's a magic weapon"... so? Just because it's normally a magic weapon doesn't mean they can't make it a non-magic weapon... look at Staff, both Daredevil and Revenant use it as a Melee weapon and soon Warrior will too... a Scepter could have created Hardlight projections within theme of the Holosmith and no one would have even questioned it... infact people would have likely saw it as a perfect thematic fit for the espec... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batalix.2873 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, Panda.1967 said: I agree... the Shiro inspired spec should have been for Thief... which funny enough could have ALSO gotten off-hand sword if they had gone that route... I and many others that I know wanted a true Assassin spec for Thief with EoD... and a Ritualist based espec for Guardian would have been great... but they kinda killed all hope I had for that ever happening when they released the Revenant... besides, what weapon would they have given a Ritualist espec for Guardian? Guardian already has Staff, Scepter, & Focus... I guess maybe Warhorn could have worked... and I wonder if Urns would have replaced Virtues with Spirits as their new skill type... there are several things they could have done better but didn't... and? 2 is a Symbol skill on ALL guardian main-hands, 3 is always a utility for guardian main-hands, and 1 is your auto-attack it's largely irrelevant... following the same pattern as all guardian main-hands doesn't do anything to help it make sense... there is nothing about the Firebrand that demanded Axe... they could have given Firebrand a Dagger with the same exact skills if they wanted... it was a random and arbitrary main-hand weapon choice. It wasn't chosen due to Lore reasons, it wasn't chosen due to any GW1 homages, it was simply picked because it could be. Just like with Firebrand... Axe is basically just a condi version of Mesmer Sword with the clone generation and utility of 2 & 3 swapped around... it could have been any weapon... no one would have batted an eyelash if Mirage had been the one to get main-hand Dagger... though people would have complained about 3 professions getting daggers... Which BTW the fact they were giving Dagger to Warrior and Ranger is probably the only reason they didn't do dagger on either Firebrand or Mirage... What it does is irrelevant... it could have been an axe, mace, or dagger and played the same way... Scepter may have been a better fit from a thematic standpoint if I'm completely honest... and I know what you're thinking "but that's a magic weapon"... so? Just because it's normally a magic weapon doesn't mean they can't make it a non-magic weapon... look at Staff, both Daredevil and Revenant use it as a Melee weapon and soon Warrior will too... a Scepter could have created Hardlight projections within theme of the Holosmith and no one would have even questioned it... infact people would have likely saw it as a perfect thematic fit for the espec... Warhorn would have worked reasonably well for Guardian to have a Ritualisty/Shamany build. We didn't need a 1:1 reincarnation of Ritualist, but the pieces were already there to give us an evolution of it, just like Spellbreaker/Mirage were kind of evolutions of Dervish. And you can see glimmers of it in WB with the symbols and spirit fists but it's just...not very Guardiany at all. We didn't *need* a Shiro espec after Rev. We have Shiro Revenant stance in core, and that is as Shiro as anything was ever going to get. I do agree that FB using axe was a bit of a stretch as implemented, but I do see how it could easily have been a rune-carving based espec (which I think sits well with being a bookmage) in earlier design iterations. Then probably Solar touched it and it became all about burning. And yes, Mirage and Holo were still kind of stretching. I still think they pulled things together better than the EoD specs generally did. Whirling axes kind of work functionally with how Mirage is kind of dervishy-but-also-floaty. And yes Holo could have done anything but they went full force on light-holograms and lightsaber and the fantasy hid the weird choice very well (I also think that Engi was always going to struggle for espec weapons since nothing outside of its core arsenal scream "I machined this"; so Engi weapons being arbitrary bugs me less because they can't help it like other classes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda.1967 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Batalix.2873 said: (I also think that Engi was always going to struggle for espec weapons since nothing outside of its core arsenal scream "I machined this"; so Engi weapons being arbitrary bugs me less because they can't help it like other classes). You do know that people were calling for Hammer & Mace on Core Engineer during the original Alphas and Betas right? Hammer & Mace were both 100% perfect fits to the core Engineer aesthetic... had they been core Engineer weaopns, we probably would have seen Axe with Scrapper, and (assuming Holosmith still got sword) we'd have gotten Scepter, Focus, or Staff with Mechanist using Jade tech inspired "magitech" abilities... Honestly, how they implemented Mace for Engineer was heavily stretching... they gave Mechanist Mace because it was one of the most asked for weapons for Engineer since day 1... but they jumped through a lot of hoops to tailor it to the Mechanist's specific aesthetic... as a Core Engineer weapon it would have just been treated like a wrench... a very basic melee mainhand weapon... the actual effects of it's abilities probably would have been the same as the mechanist's mace though... Confusion on 1 & 2, vulnerablity on 2 with some sort of boon (probably selfish instead of party though)... ranged stun on 3 (throw wrench)... had hammer been added as a core engineer weapon back then it probably wouldn't have been any different than what the Scrapper got... Edited June 30, 2023 by Panda.1967 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batalix.2873 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 28 minutes ago, Panda.1967 said: You do know that people were calling for Hammer & Mace on Core Engineer during the original Alphas and Betas right? Hammer & Mace were both 100% perfect fits to the core Engineer aesthetic... had they been core Engineer weaopns, we probably would have seen Axe with Scrapper, and (assuming Holosmith still got sword) we'd have gotten Scepter, Focus, or Staff with Mechanist using Jade tech inspired "magitech" abilities... Honestly, how they implemented Mace for Engineer was heavily stretching... they gave Mechanist Mace because it was one of the most asked for weapons for Engineer since day 1... but they jumped through a lot of hoops to tailor it to the Mechanist's specific aesthetic... as a Core Engineer weapon it would have just been treated like a wrench... a very basic melee mainhand weapon... the actual effects of it's abilities probably would have been the same as the mechanist's mace though... Confusion on 1 & 2, vulnerablity on 2 with some sort of boon (probably selfish instead of party though)... ranged stun on 3 (throw wrench)... had hammer been added as a core engineer weapon back then it probably wouldn't have been any different than what the Scrapper got... Yeah Mech Mace is just...odd. And yeah I was at least vaguely aware of the demands for mace and previously hammer. But again that's not many options, and even those are both kind of stretching to feel Engi-themed. To be fair, I think hammer stretches *well* and is one of my favorite weapons in the game for it. I'm glad they weren't core weapons because you're right those additions would be just a bit more off. I *guess* scrapper could work with an axe or mace, but I am happier with things this way and Engi remaining a very "low weapon" class fantasy. But I guess my overall point is: if not sword, it would have been something equally arbitary, as you observed, because Engi versus weapons are somewhat radically designed away from each other. Hammer/mace or not being used yet, sword was just about as good as any of the other options. Mayyyybe torch but I'm glad they didn't go that route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Red Killian.3946 Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 With the idea of new weapons coming with each expac, potentially more weapons will come out until each profession can utilize each weapon. The problem is so many people want this weapon or that weapon for their class, and when it doesn’t happen “it just doesn’t make any sense!” As an engineer main since the start, I would have love another offhand option like dagger, warhorn, sword, mace…. Anything to give more variety than pistol or shield. I’m hoping shortbow will give some great long range condi dps options for strikes, etc. rather than dual pistol all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batalix.2873 Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Dark Red Killian.3946 said: With the idea of new weapons coming with each expac, potentially more weapons will come out until each profession can utilize each weapon. The problem is so many people want this weapon or that weapon for their class, and when it doesn’t happen “it just doesn’t make any sense!” As an engineer main since the start, I would have love another offhand option like dagger, warhorn, sword, mace…. Anything to give more variety than pistol or shield. I’m hoping shortbow will give some great long range condi dps options for strikes, etc. rather than dual pistol all the time. Yeah for certain professions like Engi, Rev, and Ele, that is a LOT of weapons. Plus, call me OCD, but if at that point three of them are tied to especs with oddly specific animations/gimmicks, the whole system would feel weird. I would have preferred if they kept the especs as they are, gave us one more solid set of core weapons (instead of the haphazard choices we are getting), and called it good. Edited July 2, 2023 by Batalix.2873 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Dark Red Killian.3946 said: With the idea of new weapons coming with each expac, potentially more weapons will come out until each profession can utilize each weapon. The problem is so many people want this weapon or that weapon for their class, and when it doesn’t happen “it just doesn’t make any sense!” As an engineer main since the start, I would have love another offhand option like dagger, warhorn, sword, mace…. Anything to give more variety than pistol or shield. I’m hoping shortbow will give some great long range condi dps options for strikes, etc. rather than dual pistol all the time. Well then sad to say we only got 5 more expansions to go then since that is when warrior will have all the weapons. So rip gw2 2029 Edited July 2, 2023 by Linken.6345 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serephen.3420 Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 On 6/29/2023 at 6:17 AM, Barraind.7324 said: Unless tied into a profession mechanic, or so absolutely pushed it makes your other options seem irrelevant, "getting an offhand" is just a terrible feeling. They're incapable of changing a playstyle by themselves (unless you're suddenly adding 2 blocks to something that didnt have an option for that before), due to not being the home of the auto-attack, and usually sporting long cooldowns, making them available at a maximum of once each weapon swap cycle, so they're either better than what you have already, used for a crucial skill you need, or pointless. Necro getting torch on harb/core/Creaper, for instance, is just a better offhand than their base offhands. But if torch was baseline, and you were to drop Focus onto necro today and be like HEY I GOT YOU THIS! I dont know if anyone would care. Oh Dagger on ele vs focus is wildly different gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainbow Dragon.7268 Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 i think eventually all weapons will be on all classes which i love, i have wanted short bow on mesmer ever since i made the dreamer for my thief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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