PvP Duo Queue = Exploit

[HFP.1203]

Hi GW2 Community

I try keep this thread short as possible, maybe there is already one but i really do not have the time and the motivation to browse tru all the "help" screams in the forum. That is actually your job Arena Net 😃 I just hope maybe anybody who feels responsible will read it and do actual changes in game. And my suggestions are really reaaaaaallly easy to apply.

Here is my SCREAM FOR HELP 

As the title already says, DUO QUEUE matchmaking is an exploit imo, i reported it many times in game but i doubt that anybody cares to check. The fact that people grouped up have a big advanatage versus random solo players should be clear. They can communicate and teamplay better. I can imagine that you will not banish DUO-Parties but at least balance it please or add an extra "STRICT-SOLO-QUEUE" OPTION  (if you choose this, you may wait longer for games but you play 5v5 all solo). However look at this, here is what i mean:

Duo + 3 Solo VS Duo + 3 Solo = FAIR

Duo + 3 Solo VS 5 Solo = UNFAIR /Exploit

Here is one more cuz ur matchmaking really funny on me today 

Duo + Duo+1 Solo VS Duo + 3 Solo = UNFAIR/Exploit .... i hope i do not have to explain this one.

Matchmaking is just a filter, so you can add the STRICT-SOLO-MATCHMAKING-OPTION (5v5 all solo) immediatly without any excuses or delays and than you will see how your PvP community reacts. ONE PROBLEM SOLVED, YOU WELCOME. Right now you are just punishing solo players for some reason and shrinking the pvp population. Getting high ranks by abusing this exploit is like cheating, i have zero respect for that. (sorry high rank players, it is an exploit. i wonder if you would get your ranks just by playing solo AND if you do so, than GG WP to you) 

I love tha balance patches, hero changes and all the new content you are creating and adding but it matters nothing if issues like DUO-Parties and matchmaking are not balanced in the first place....(i do not mention hacks and cheating etc) At the moment i see no reason to play pvp more if this remains a thing. I will just wait till you change it. Will i wait forever ???  Maybe but yout have -1 pvp player now. And if you will not listen to your community than at some point you will have no PvP population at all.  Sad but it is up to you Arena Net.  

JUST GIVE US FAIR PVP-COMPETITION PLEASE (at least fairer , fix  the duo-parties please)

P.S : Short Infos about my person, for interested people so you can maybe comprehend my point of view better:

A) I am Silver 2 or 3 something around that and a passionate gw2 player. I play PVP with muted chat because i dont want to read toxic stuff and i also dont want to write toxic stuff myself. It is easy to get toxic if u get offended or if the game is not going well and than toxicity spreads real fast. So chat off means better focus. (btw i have long year Online-pvp Experience in the most toxic online game ever and learned that majority of lower tier games will NOT have good communications in chat, but this is almost in every competetive online game. just casual pvp pleb talk distracting you .......... and yeah i am easily offended) Game mechanics, hero mechanics, map awarness etc are waaaay more important than chatting. However I do understand that  teamplay and communications are essential and very importnant tho IF people know what they are doing and know how to behave.  

B) I dont care so much about ranks, that means i dont want to show off with them or boost my ego. Ofc it is cool to have nice titles or high ranks, ngl,  but that is not my main focus. I just want to see if i improve myself. I play solo, train, maybe try new specs etc etc. I just do stuff that noobs as me do.... I also dont care about winning or losing so much, AS LONG as it was a FAIR match but  DUO-Parties in matches are not fair at all. So your rank/medal does not really reflect your  skills because you face an disadvantage in the first place. (OFC i try to win every game, its pvp. And i am tilting AF if enemy team had a DUO. I also dont want Duos on my team, winning like that feels bad ) Thank GOD or ME we got a fix for that now 😃

C) I am 1 year old in GW2 and i freakin love this game ❤️ !!! If i could, i would work for A-net myself and fix this kind of stuff by my own.(if you have a job for me than get at me A-Net) But sadly i have no game developer or IT education, i just have many ideas (LOL like thousands of other players, i know, but i try to keep em simple) Further i need to actually play the game and work my job 5 days a week, sleep sometimes etc. so please excuse me for not applying yet A-Net. 

IF THERE ALREADY IS A "STRICT-SOLO-QUEUE" OPTION please let me know, delete this thread and excuse me.

God bless you all (also the toxic ones)  

GG WP 

[iminxi.8514]

I think using the term exploit is a bit off but I get the message, and I agree. They either need to make a full party lobby or make it strictly solo queu only. Duo queu in combo with being able to chamge characters in pre lobbies is borderlining on the exploitative. It's impact it just enormous on an already imbalanced mess, not to mention the matchmaking itself being a shamble.

I like your honesty ^^ beats the two-facedness of most of this community.

Edited July 14, 2023 by demonbeetle.2387

[HFP.1203]

@demonbeetle.2387

Sorry that i adress it as an exploit but i do not know how to specify it else. It is not guaranteed that someone can push ranks up by party-queues but it feels kinda off somehow. I do understand some aspects of Duos. i.e: You can motivate shy players or just team up with your buddy and have PvP "Fun". But it just feels unfair if you team up vs solos .To me and this is one of the best things about GW2 is how fair the game is designed in many aspects, as far as i know. This just does not fit in with the rest of GW2

 

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

God bless you too, may you live forever in His light. 🙏

There's nothing wrong with DuoQ on its own, but when DuoQ is mixed with SoloQ, then it becomes an exploit. 2v1 is not fair no matter how you spin it.

[Downstate.4697]

I’ve said it for awhile now but part of the reason matches snowball is kills generate more value over holding a node. The time to kill is much shorter than it used to be. The rotations are much faster as well. Getting a kill+bleeding out eliminates a player for 30+ seconds which is more than enough time for your team to snowball. 
 

If you ask me the problem isn’t that people duo queue, nor is it getting bad team mates; kills generate too much value in the game mode. Reducing respawn times or offering a suicide button in down state could go a long way.

[HFP.1203]

@Downstate.4697

you totally right about that, and the fact that you know about specific match mechanics like this, shows that you already play pvp longer than me. I do not realize this stuff yet but i understand what you mean and belive you. Here the point of DUO-Partys also plays into your statement becuase you can generate kills way faster if your teamwork  is better, than you snowball and win. You can also communicate faster which enemy or objective is more important. Sorry I dont wanna be rude but i do not want to make several topics out of it, or the A-Net people will cry because we complain about everything XD

I dont want to sound like a smart guy but the solution to your point is very easy to apply aswell.

Just add a new PvP mode and turn nodes OFF , just like a death-match mode (i dont know exatcly how this mode is called in other games sorry) first team at 500 wins.  Take same maps turn off nodes, look how it goes. This doesnt even require big programming and they can change stuff quickly. Than you can decide which Mode you play "Deatmacht" or "Capture the Node" depending on the meta or something like that 

Edited July 14, 2023 by HFP.1203

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

2 hours ago, Downstate.4697 said:

I’ve said it for awhile now but part of the reason matches snowball is kills generate more value over holding a node. The time to kill is much shorter than it used to be. The rotations are much faster as well. Getting a kill+bleeding out eliminates a player for 30+ seconds which is more than enough time for your team to snowball. 
 

If you ask me the problem isn’t that people duo queue, nor is it getting bad team mates; kills generate too much value in the game mode. Reducing respawn times or offering a suicide button in down state could go a long way.

The problem is DuoQ.
Bleedout timers/respawn times are universal and everyone in a match plays at that same disadvantage.

DuoQ is not universal. It is a straight up advantage over soloQ players and reducing respawn times and adding a bleedout button to downstate will do nothing to improve the soloQ experience.

Here's a novel idea: Teams vs other teams and solos vs other solos. No mixing, no inbetweens, everyone plays at the same level. Then; assuming we can manage to at least get it fair, then it will be worth looking at QoL improvements like you're suggesting.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Duo queue is exploitable, but not for the reasons you mentioned.

The problem is that matchmaking treats duos as simply two separate players who happen to always be slotted into the same game and the same team. This is incredibly foolish, because it allows matchmaking to be very easily manipulated, creating two problems:

1. If both players in the duo have alts ( Which the match manipers all have several ) They can have their alts be at lower rating, which means they can simply take turns and alternate between their alt and main to boost each other and the matchmaking algorithm will match them against much lower rating than they should be at. What's especially irritating about this is that even if you win against a duo that is doing this exploit, you will earn less rating because the system thinks you beat a silver player when in reality you beat a plat III player.  I've had numerous times where I managed to beat top 10 duos only to be given 3~7 points because one of them was on some silver I smurf. There are several people in the top 250 who do this.

2. Due to lower player population, when tanking their alts rating they can also queue-snipe a player who they want to keep off the leaderboard to get on the same team as them, and then intentionally throw their games. Since the way duo queue works already rewards them for throwing in order to reduce their alts rating, they figure they might as well kill two birds with one stone and screw their competition over. This creates an EXTREMELY toxic feedback loop because now people who are seriously competing feel that they too have to do shadey kitten in order to rank, ever increasing the number of clowns who practice this.

3. If three people coordinate, they can do both 1 and 2 at the same time, effectively guaranteeing which team will win entirely especially in the late AM hours.

 

The solution to this is simple. Either change matchmaking so that it ranks duo's more harshly and always queues them assuming both players are the highest rating between them +10~50 rating, or just get rid of duo queue entirely. Unfortunately, devs have been dragging their feet to acknowledge these problems and how they are slowly killing the player population as people get tired of rigged games and quit. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Master Ketsu.4569

[Downstate.4697]

1 minute ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

The problem is DuoQ.
Bleedout timers/respawn times are universal and everyone in a match plays at that same disadvantage.

DuoQ is not universal. It is a straight up advantage over soloQ players and reducing respawn times and adding a bleedout button to downstate will do nothing to improve the soloQ experience.

Here's a novel idea: Teams vs other teams and solos vs other solos. No mixing, no inbetweens, everyone plays at the same level. Then; assuming we can manage to at least get it fair, then it will be worth looking at QoL improvements like you're suggesting.

Agree. Good points

[Madam Pussycat.6153]

You are right, organized premade duo and double duo teams vs random solo players is an exploit but an allowed one, no idea why they let it go on for so long, we used to have a team queue for premade teams and a pure solo queue for all solo players and those were the best days in pvp( not to mention all the cool amulets and runes we used to have that gave us more build diversity and fun)  duo vs solo teams should be gotten rid of, as is matches are very uneven and exploited but every once in a while you get lucky and find a nice even match  with all solo players on both sides and those  are pretty fun when they happen.

[Enduronex.4865]

[deleted]

Edited January 14 by Enduronex.4865

[HFP.1203]

Morning GAMERS

hi to all reading and commenting here, i am back. Sorry had to sleep for a bit and now i am starting my weekend with a coffee and pvp-forums 😃 what could possibly go wrong.

By the comments i see here, I've already noticed that people here are invested, have motivation, solutions and a good spirit about the pvp game mode, all of you have constructive feedback and answers which proves that you still have hope and love for this game mode, same as me.

That is why i wonder why Arena Net ignores it. It is also the reason why i called the forum threads "screams for help" in the first place becuase it feels like a support group /self-aid group. Sadly keeping us occupied by talking about all the issues does NOT solve them, yeah it kinda makes you feel better, because you know that you are not alone experiencing it but ultimately it doesnt change anything. I would love to see a big kitten poll ,where the PvP community could decide or point out which of all the issues should be adressed first. This brings me straight to the point which is probably the issue of them all, WORK.

Work has to be done to fix those issues and work requiers resources. Rescources that A-net rather puts in creating new Expansions or content that creates money, which is understandable. That is why i try to keep this topic as simple as possible. I can imagine that reading through thousands of threads, browsing forums and deciding which problem to adress next can be energy draining AF, that is also why i suggested easy appliable changes . DuoQ is the issue from my point of view. I dont know what exactly is the most game breaking problem in PvP atm but the community should unite and point it  clearly out so A-Net can MAYBE do some changes. Adding new stuff and constantly rebalance classes does not bring new players if the game mode itself is broken. I assume we all appreciate A-Nets effort but it is maybe at the wrong spot.

Sorry for wasting all of your time and wish you all an awesome weekend !!! No matter what you do ❤️ 

P.S: This is what i mean, forums are so time consuming and i talk about already known and not adressed issues. ME and ALL of YOU can just go play other game modes or other games. I do not understand A-Nets agenda behind killing PvP in a slow manner. So we should all just play PvE and cry because there are no new raid wings coming XD ??  

PvP People do not expect much, we already eat trash and sit on this island in the mists but some improvements would be so nice. GW2 PvP is very good and offers so much, it has so much more potential if some issues would be fixed but it is so sad to see, that it is just rotting and suffering =(  

 

[HFP.1203]

@ Ellie.5913

i do not even know about the good ol' times =( 

They should just reverse it, bring it back. In a game it is possible to bring back old stuff  and passed options. This also means it is already programmed and designed .So not much would be needed more to invest to make good changes. My hopes remain and thank you for mentioning it 😃 

 

[KoG.7091]

As a solo queuer, every match is simply more fun without due queuers. Mixing in duo queue and solos also promote wintrading because duo queuer often felt they are entitlted to 5 man premades.