Facet Of Nature upkeep side buffs

[arazoth.7290]

I find this part of the upkeep rather underpowered in all content. The consume on facet of nature is perfectly fine.

 

[arazoth.7290]

• Facet of Nature upkeep, demon stance: 

Transfer 1 condition/3sec uptime, instead of conditions taking from allies/3 sec. This would augment for an upkeep better.

You can still take conditions with demon stance stunbreak from all allies or a certain trait that applies conditions on you with upkeep. So their is no reason why this change shouldn't be

• Facet of nature upkeep, centaur stance:

Make it pulse each 1 second instead of 3 seconds. It would merely pulse now close to regen boon but you have to use 3 upkeep to maintain it as off trade.

It would make the heal more reliable, the heal is little weak atm and only gets used with traited 6 sec upkeep facet. And by straight up buffing the healing number wouldn't be the solution because... . Because this upkeep is acting as overtime healing and not burst healing if it would get boosted too high to fix it.

 

• Facet of Nature upkeep, assassin stance:

Increase atleast the life steal damage part, healing part I don't see really a problem, but the damage upkeep it grants is too lo in comparison it should do.

• Facet of Nature upkeep, dwarf stance:

25% reduction instead of 10%, since it multiplicates with reductions and no longer additive. So it can use this buff to make it little more impactfull if you want to sacrifice energy uptime skill.

• Facet of Nature upkeep, dragon stance:

They could have made this 50% increased boon duration upkeep. But this would buff too much the quickness now because certain updates on passive minor traits. So idk about this one really because of it. 

Maybe except pve, buff the duration upkeep % in pvp/WvW? idk about this one really, take this last with a grain of salt.

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by arazoth.7290

[Za Shaloc.3908]

A passive pulsing AoE condi transfer would be beyond broken and unhealthy for PvP and WvW. I think Mallyx's Facet of Nature has had a bit of an outdated identity ever since the resistance changes and could potentially use a rework, but not something like that. 

Dwarf's damage reduction is very much sufficient for its upkeep cost, though on that note, I really do think the upkeep cost should be reduced to -2 in PvP to match up with the other game modes for all legends. 

[arazoth.7290]

3 hours ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

A passive pulsing AoE condi transfer would be beyond broken and unhealthy for PvP and WvW. I think Mallyx's Facet of Nature has had a bit of an outdated identity ever since the resistance changes and could potentially use a rework, but not something like that. 

Dwarf's damage reduction is very much sufficient for its upkeep cost, though on that note, I really do think the upkeep cost should be reduced to -2 in PvP to match up with the other game modes for all legends. 

• Maybe for the 3 sec pulsing duration it would be strong. What did you had in mind for this one then?

• And dwarf for it's facet's upkeep cost isn't. If you take a look at vengefull hammers 6 upkeep, it is unblockable self heal and good aoe damage + damage reduction. A 20-25% allied reduction only 3 upkeep skill and noting beside that, is about same strength. It is also energy wise for 3 upkeep on scale closer to rite of the great dwarf if you don't consider the stunbreak. You also have to keep taking in consideration with multiplicative reductions. If protection 33% reduction is applied and you would share with this 20% reduction ontop, it isn't 53% =>33% * 1,2= 39,6% reduction. This would be only a 6,66% damage reduction increase with buff to 20%. If it would be 25% reduction shared with boon protection for 3 upkeep cost => 33% * 1,25=  41,25% which would be 8,25% extra damage reduction. Tempest eles get 20% reduction on prot with a minor trait for free no trade off. In comparison We have as trade off using our energy for this. With the current 10% buff, it is 33% * 1,1= 36,3%, a 3,3% increase for this amount of upkeep is too low.

 

It would be an easier to manage rite of great dwarf with lesser reduction because it has half the upkeep compared ofcourse.

 

 

• Centaur stance facet of nature upkeep: If you would take the current healing output every 3 second and make that close to same healing each second. So for example math wise, it's doing 500/3s outgoing heal => 380/1s outgoing heal instead, this would be 2,28 coëfficiënt increase. This would still be doing less hps then regen boons you apply a lot easier with herald 2 upkeep for 4 sec duration. But by this amount for the 3 upkeep it would be a buff and same time not too OP selfsustain, but more significant ally healing.

Whoever is going say that saint viktor upkeep can do this per second with more healing, yes it is but it same has self damaging and you can't selfheal during it with some movement speed and damage reduction ontop to balance it out, so it's a selfless heal with less self sustain. That's why 1 has higher hps and 1 less, even if you would scale both to 6 upkeep cost.

 

So whoever tries to tell on dwarf/centaur that it would be too much, here I showed the comparison to other upkeep costs/amount of effect why these are underpowered. If you think otherwise, show your math with comparison.

 

[Virdo.1540]

Passive FoN Centaur is fine as it is.
Passive FoN Shiro should do , a little bit more damage. Maybe 30-50% more wouldnt hurt. (which is a couple hundred dps spread over 5 allies)
Passive FoN Glint is fine as it is.
Passive FoN Dwarf should get in addition to -10%dmg reduction an -10%condi dmg reduction for allies (like hammers do or Elite with Retribution-Trait)
Passive FoN Demon is kinda horrible right now. But not for being a bad design,  just bad because it doesnt fit anymore to the condi rev build. Corruption would need to change "Demonic Resistance" from Dmg-Reduction on Resistance to CondiDmg-Reduction on Resistance...or Resolution.

And of course, FoN should always & in every game mode only have an upkeep of 2. More is making it useless, less is making it broken
 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Virdo.1540

[arazoth.7290]

•passive FoN 2 upkeep for all content would be best yes !!

•If passive FoN on centaur was there 2 upkeep for all. It is still too low raw healing for an upkeep skill. Compared to other heal upkeep skill cost wise on scale for upkeep, it's too low for its effect. Facet of light on 2 upkeep cost, applies at base 4 second duration regen boon healing. urn of saint viktor 6 upkeep. When urn upkeep does 1250/sec outgoing heal and FoN centaur 550/3 sec with 2 upkeep is big difference.

FoN centaur only has effect raw healing and urn has reducing damage a lot + 50% movement speed, you can't self heal but u get reduction with small self damage the benefits outweigh this.

Not asking of FoN for 2 upkeep skill same raw healing/3sec as a 6 upkeep cost that's stupid. It needs to be scaled accordingly to the effect it gives and the only effect FoN gives for centaur raw healing is increased radius.

=> FoN centaur 550/3sec 2 or 3 upkeep skill it would be for buffing it enough => 2,25 * 550 for 3 upkeep= 1237,5/3 sec if compared with urn 6 upkeep it is 2475/3 sec while urn has 3750/ 3 sec but lower scale so this balances out.

=> FoN 2 upkeep 550 outgoing/3 sec * 2,25 * 2upkeep/3upkeep = 825/ 3 sec outgoing. Scale wise also same for 6 upkeep 2475/3 sec and lower then urn 6 upkeep 3750/sec.

The healing would be lower then urn/ sec but scales out with 600 radius effect for its lower upkeep cost too.

• FoN dwarf that it gives like hammers small condi reduction would make sense yes. But make that 10% => 15% for 2 upkeep, 10% doesn't even feel worth giving energy compared to other abilities.

• FoN demon yea it lost it identity with demon, that is another issue that the stance/traitline corruption should fix yes. Imo it should manipulate condis in all kind of ways more and work with it.

• FoN herald When did you ever felt worth holding 2 upkeep on 20% increased boon duration over pressing the other abilties which grants boons or weapon abilties which are more effective too?

• FoN assasin Like you said, a few 100's extra damage then what it fors already/ally would be nice yea

 

 

Edited August 10, 2023 by arazoth.7290

[arazoth.7290]

13 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

•passive FoN 2 upkeep for all content would be best yes !!

•If passive FoN on centaur was there 2 upkeep for all. It is still too low raw healing for an upkeep skill. Compared to other heal upkeep skill cost wise on scale for upkeep, it's too low for its effect. Facet of light on 2 upkeep cost, applies at base 4 second duration regen boon healing. urn of saint viktor 6 upkeep. When urn upkeep does 1250/sec outgoing heal and FoN centaur 550/3 sec with 2 upkeep is big difference.

FoN centaur only has effect raw healing and urn has reducing damage a lot + 50% movement speed, you can't self heal but u get reduction with small self damage the benefits outweigh this.

Not asking of FoN for 2 upkeep skill same raw healing/3sec as a 6 upkeep cost that's stupid. It needs to be scaled accordingly to the effect it gives and the only effect FoN gives for centaur raw healing is increased radius.

=> FoN centaur 550/3sec 2 or 3 upkeep skill it would be for buffing it enough => 2,25 * 550 for 3 upkeep= 1237,5/3 sec if compared with urn 6 upkeep it is 2475/3 sec while urn has 3750/ 3 sec but lower scale so this balances out.

=> FoN 2 upkeep 550 outgoing/3 sec * 2,25 * 2upkeep/3upkeep = 825/ 3 sec outgoing. Scale wise also same for 6 upkeep 2475/3 sec and lower then urn 6 upkeep 3750/sec.

The healing would be lower then urn/ sec but scales out with 600 radius effect for its lower upkeep cost too.

• FoN dwarf that it gives like hammers small condi reduction would make sense yes. But make that 10% => 15% for 2 upkeep, 10% doesn't even feel worth giving energy compared to other abilities.

• FoN demon yea it lost it identity with demon, that is another issue that the stance/traitline corruption should fix yes. Imo it should manipulate condis in all kind of ways more and work with it.

• FoN herald When did you ever felt worth holding 2 upkeep on 20% increased boon duration over pressing the other abilties which grants boons or weapon abilties which are more effective too?

• FoN assasin Like you said, a few 100's extra damage then what it fors already/ally would be nice yea

 

 

Update: 

For PVE it is fine scale wise, didn't checked that part enough !*

WvW it's less on par but compared to spvp little higher, so 50% buff would be enough and still lower then the pve part. But otherwise too much healing if same value like pve standards. This is because hezling in WvW is higher then spvp, but lower then pve.

Spvp the same as WvW 50 % buff from current value in spvp and 2 upkeep instead of 3.

 

These percentages still come according to healing done as in calculations above written. For having WvW/spvp FoN better scaled with upkeep cost.

 

The buff on the healing number should be calculated by increasing the healing power coëffiecient. Since it effects more heal support builds and not dps