Dual Pistol Feedback, plus a special request: Executioner's Calling!

[Titan.7853]

Devs and Guardian mains,

Now that the beta week is over, I'd like to share my feedback regarding the pistols.  I have read the current feedback, and I generally agree with the consensus statements of other posters.  I agree that pistol #2 and pistol #4 skills should be swapped.  I also think pistol #1 could use 2 stacks of bleeding.  As for the symbol of pistol #3, it could use a longer duration and should apply a buff, ideally a touch of quickness (or might), if it remains cast under the player.  I don't see much of a point in dropping the symbol under an enemy at range to be honest, they'll just jump out of it.  The way it is now, it gives better control when cast under the player who can remain inside the symbol.  If you are tanking a boss, you're likely to be right up on them anyway.  Pistol #5 is slow and clunky, took a while to figure out, and became the least used of all pistol skills, unfortunately.  These are my general thoughts.

Now for my request.  

Overall I quite enjoyed the new dual pistol setup.  I would like to see the changes I mentioned above, but if I were to ask for one change and nothing else, it would be for something special on pistol #5.  Pistol #5, Jurisdiction, is too kitten slow.  In any competitive gameplay the only use I could find for it was to double tap it to get a knockback...and that was only if the player is within say 250 range.  That's it.  It's so slow, not only to cast (2 seconds for max charge) but the projectile itself is so slow it's excruciating.  As an example, the walking golem in the pvp lobby could evade the slowness of the projectile at medium range, just by doing it's walk.  Forget about competitive gameplay.

I would like to see pistol #5 fire immediately on single tap for a quick knockback, which was my main use, and to be held and released to fire for longer charges.  I can understand why the projectile is so slow in it's current state, because of the special detonate at will feature when it reaches maximum charge.  Although it's a cool concept, it would be more useful if the detonate at will feature was removed and the projectile made faster.  I would also like to see the knockback become a knockdown on the main target, and a knockback on the rest.  Defiance breakbar damage should also be increased.

But even if none of these changes are made, and pistol #5 stayed the same, this one feature I've named "Executioner's Calling" would make pistol #5 so worth it.  Please just add this to Jurisdiction.

Executioner's Calling:
When maximum charge is reached, projectile finishes down state player.
Number of targets: 1
Normal damage/knockback applied to other players.
Range: 900 (or less, e.g. 600 range)

That's it.  Literally, that one change would make off-hand pistol worth it to me.  As it stands, for condi dps, the torch will be taken over off-hand pistol every time.  So, what about competitive play then?  The projectile is just too slow for anything except a near melee range knockback, but if pistol #5 rewarded you with a faster finisher for keeping the skill off cooldown, it would be so special for competitive gameplay.  Currently, to stand over someone and finish them, it requires a 3.5 second cast time.  Pistol #5 takes 2 seconds to reach max charge (plus it has a slow moving projectile), but the chance at a faster finish time would be reason enough to equip off-hand pistol.  This becomes especially true if pistol skills #2 and #4 get swapped, as they should be, which would leave off-hand pistol in an even worse state for competitive play.  As it stands now, at least off-hand pistol has the burst of #4...but it really does make more sense for that to skill be on main hand pistol. 

Again, for dps alone, people are going to equip torch, so off-hand pistol really needs to be geared towards competitive gameplay.  Executioner's Calling would make it fit for purpose, and offer a fun new element of gameplay to PvP and WvW.  Do you use pistol #5 in your encounter, such as a knockback, or do you save it in case you win?  Do you weapon swap from torch for a chance at a faster finish (a 2 second cast can still be interrupted), or stay on your dps weapon?  How much fun would it be to try to "execute" a downed player before their ally can revive them AND knockback the ally doing the reviving?  Fabuloso!

Engineer has Function Gyro (3 target finisher, 3 ally revive) on a 25 second cooldown with a 1/4 second cast time.  Warrior has Battle Standard (5 target finisher, 5 ally revive) at 600 range with a 2 second cast time.  Guardian off-hand pistol can have a single target ranged finisher, Executioner's Calling, with 2 second cast time (maybe 2.5 seconds in PvP) and the same 25 second cooldown that it already has.  This one change alone would give Guardians a reason to equip off-hand pistol.  The long cast time, and the long recharge time would prevent it from being abused. 

If you've made it this far, I would appreciate your thoughts and feedback.  What do you think?  As for me, all I want this Winter's Day is "Executioner's Calling" on off-hand pistol.  Thank you!

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Titan.7853

[draxynnic.3719]

I've seen the 'quickness on the symbol' suggestion, and it just ain't happening. ArenaNet has actively removed group quickness and alacrity from weapon skills, apart from elite-spec-specific weapon skills. They don't want to create a situation where a bunch of guardians can get together and give each other quickness without needing a dedicated quickness provider.

If you're concerned about enemies moving off the symbol, ground targeting is the answer. Personally, in most environments where that's a real concern, I'd be just as worried about the potential to be pressured off the symbol.

I think the tap to detonate feature on the final charge of skill 5 needs to be removed and replaced with something else. I see what they were trying to accomplish, but that mechanic was removed from most skills that used to have it for good reason, and pistol 5 is fiddly enough with the charge mechanic that the tap to detonate feature just pushes it over the edge.

[Saiyan.1704]

I find the detonate feature to be redundant. It should either do a hefty amount of damage to the target on detonation or the knockback should just happen automatically when (or if) it hits the target. There's just no reason for us to detonate it ever. Cast #5 for the burns and never detonate it will always yield more dps... because the condi damage procs only if it pierces.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Saiyan.1704

[Gaiawolf.8261]

11 hours ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

I find the detonate feature to be redundant. It should either do a hefty amount of damage to the target on detonation or the knockback should just happen automatically when (or if) it hits the target. There's just no reason for us to detonate it ever. Cast #5 for the burns and never detonate it will always yield more dps... because the condi damage procs only if it pierces.

I have actually used the detonation effect to let the projectile pass through the target for max damage, then detonate it right behind them to push them into my symbol or into melee range for my axe. It did a lot more damage than just detonating it or letting the projectile pierce without detonating (because you get compounding stacks from both). On the test I did, the pierce did about 7.5K damage, the detonation did 6K, but the combo did well over 16K. It was also kinda fun and probably what they were going for, but it's entirely too wonky and involved to hit reliably. It would still be much better with an auto-detonate on hit.

[draxynnic.3719]

Big brain: 2nd stage pierces other enemies and explodes on hitting your target. 3rd stage pierces and then explodes just after emerging from your target's hitbox.

[Novemourth.5086]

So what about the idea of pistol 5 with no change, while Guardians can using pistol 5 simultaneously charge and fire pistol 1, 2 or 3? 
I emphasize that if we can charge the pistol 5 skill and use the main hand weapon at the same time.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Novemourth.5086

[Gaiawolf.8261]

2 hours ago, Novemourth.5086 said:

So what about the idea of pistol 5 with no change, while Guardians can using pistol 5 simultaneously charge and fire pistol 1, 2 or 3? 
I emphasize that if we can charge the pistol 5 skill and use the main hand weapon at the same time.

That wouldn't really make the Jurisdiction less clunky. If anything, it would add to the clunk, since more is going on to keep track of during the channel.