Queue system

[Malus.2184]

The queue system in this game is horrible. I would rather wait longer and have fun fights than get in quickly and then get stomped because I've been matched against randoms that all have Plat or similar when myself and the team are completely unranked.

It's discouraging and makes me go, "Yeah, I never want to PvP ever." The matchmaking is killing the system to satisfy a small portion of the player base, which ironically means that they'll have to wait even longer in the end as they chase all new players away due to being a wall to their enjoyment. Care less about the veterans and focus on the new players who are the ones that will "inherit" the system once the veteran players leave it and they will.

If the veteran players have to wait for half an hour+ to fight the same team over and over again, good, get them out of Unranked for a while, it's only benefits the system as right now their presence actively discourages people from ever advancing from Unranked to Ranked.

This is a controversial statement, stop pleasing the veteran players, they talk a lot as they often make for a vocal minority due to their engagement being higher, and in a year or so when they no longer play then what? A system is roughly said to be self-sustaining if two people enter for everyone who leaves. Right now that one person discourages the two people from entering, and then they inevitably leave anyway, entropy is a constant of everything after all, there are no two new people to take their place.

I'm loath to say this and I think this is actually the one time where I would suggest taking business advice from Games Workshop. Forget veterans, they already have all they need and they have sunk cost investment in this. They're no longer where the revitalisation of the hobby comes from. That comes from new players. Ease people into the system so they can become veterans by excluding the veteran base from being a wall to their progress. This matchmaking is killing the mode faster than anything else. During the PvP rush, I had matches I enjoyed as there were enough new people in the system that I could easily have fights against my skill level rather than being constantly either paired with or placed against extremely experienced players and either noob stomping or getting noob stomped myself, neither of which are that enjoyable for anyone.

As explained by The Zone of Proximal Control theory, people want a challenge without it being too big to overcome. Too easy and too hard are both things that people experience respectively as either too boring to continue doing or too frustrating to attempt.

Edited February 29 by Malus.2184

[Khalisto.5780]

yup

system has 3 main problems right now

 

how fast it puts together 300+ rating apart players, honestly, sometimes it happens in 3-5 min what should happen in 12-15 min

the class mirroring has too much of a high priority in mm algorithm, it causes a gold 1 player vs a top 10 player just cuz they Qing as the same class when there's nobody else playing that class

and of course duo q and all the exploits that are easy to pull out just cuz it exists

 

 

[Bunbury.8472]

On 3/1/2024 at 1:57 AM, Malus.2184 said:

The queue system in this game is horrible. I would rather wait longer and have fun fights than get in quickly and then get stomped because I've been matched against randoms that all have Plat or similar when myself and the team are completely unranked.

It's discouraging and makes me go, "Yeah, I never want to PvP ever." The matchmaking is killing the system to satisfy a small portion of the player base, which ironically means that they'll have to wait even longer in the end as they chase all new players away due to being a wall to their enjoyment. Care less about the veterans and focus on the new players who are the ones that will "inherit" the system once the veteran players leave it and they will.

If the veteran players have to wait for half an hour+ to fight the same team over and over again, good, get them out of Unranked for a while, it's only benefits the system as right now their presence actively discourages people from ever advancing from Unranked to Ranked.

how do you even know the players you are fighting in unranked are plat (top 100 players for NA btw there are like 90 plats in the region so running into a team of them is unlikely)?

are you sure you aren't just running into WvW or low gold players? because both are going to look pretty scary to a new player. I mean, I've killed an entire team on rifle mecha before...

I know I get all my WvW buddies into unranked as a team and farm noobs for the wizard vault dailies, because it's the only mode where we can play together in PvP and those dailies are easy. many WvW players I know aren't even playing ranked this season at all, so definitely aren't plat, but they do drop into unranked for wizard vault things, or when the content is dead.

so yeah? are you even sure these people are top 100 gods of PvP? or just people who know what all their buttons do and have a good build and some practice?

[Malus.2184]

7 hours ago, Bunbury.8472 said:

how do you even know the players you are fighting in unranked are plat (top 100 players for NA btw there are like 90 plats in the region so running into a team of them is unlikely)?

are you sure you aren't just running into WvW or low gold players? because both are going to look pretty scary to a new player. I mean, I've killed an entire team on rifle mecha before...

I know I get all my WvW buddies into unranked as a team and farm noobs for the wizard vault dailies, because it's the only mode where we can play together in PvP and those dailies are easy. many WvW players I know aren't even playing ranked this season at all, so definitely aren't plat, but they do drop into unranked for wizard vault things, or when the content is dead.

so yeah? are you even sure these people are top 100 gods of PvP? or just people who know what all their buttons do and have a good build and some practice?

This is just arguing semantics at this point. I could have written high-placed players and then you'd have been arguing that I was too vague. Plat or low gold makes no difference. I'm placed against players who vastly outskill me, which prevents me from learning since no matter what I do it's countered and/or wasted, and that kills any desire I have to advance further because I have to face an unscalable wall.

[Bunbury.8472]

29 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

This is just arguing semantics at this point. I could have written high-placed players and then you'd have been arguing that I was too vague. Plat or low gold makes no difference. I'm placed against players who vastly outskill me, which prevents me from learning since no matter what I do it's countered and/or wasted, and that kills any desire I have to advance further because I have to face an unscalable wall.

if you're extending it to even low gold, it seems like you just don't want to fight players who know what all their skills do and use them somewhat efficiently. you learn this in both endgame PvE and WvW, and also the game is over 10+ years old so most players have been playing their character for over a year.

you might just want to fight 'my first PvP game Andy' every game, but honestly there aren't a lot of those players. usually they peepo die and go back to PvE to 11111 npcs and get ressed by Braham in the story.

look, I commend you for trying, but if low gold feels like a god, I suggest you look up a YouTube guide for a build for the class of your choice and try and learn it's buttons. you'll have more fun and success than waiting for the matchmaker to give you a team of people who can't move and click their skills at the same time. you'll probably find out those players you've been fighting arnt as good as you thought either. most of them will just be spamming buttons.

[Malus.2184]

1 hour ago, Bunbury.8472 said:

if you're extending it to even low gold, it seems like you just don't want to fight players who know what all their skills do and use them somewhat efficiently. you learn this in both endgame PvE and WvW, and also the game is over 10+ years old so most players have been playing their character for over a year.

you might just want to fight 'my first PvP game Andy' every game, but honestly there aren't a lot of those players. usually they peepo die and go back to PvE to 11111 npcs and get ressed by Braham in the story.

look, I commend you for trying, but if low gold feels like a god, I suggest you look up a YouTube guide for a build for the class of your choice and try and learn it's buttons. you'll have more fun and success than waiting for the matchmaker to give you a team of people who can't move and click their skills at the same time. you'll probably find out those players you've been fighting arnt as good as you thought either. most of them will just be spamming buttons.

You're correct as they beat me without ever having a chance to learn anything other than just getting killed fast. 

This is the Zone of Proximal Development (ZPD) theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_of_proximal_development) and it explains the underlying reason the current queue system is bad.

My experience in PvP is low so yeah, I would like to fight people at a similar skill level so I can learn and develop, and when those people become a snore to beat then I want to advance and fight people on my new skill level, repeat ad nausea.

I find it deeply insulting that your entire argumentation is based on insults and what I can only assume is a deliberate misunderstanding of the context since there is a lot of ad hominem based on imagined hypocrisy. You tell me to go watch some videos? I tell you to go read some textbooks on developmental psychology, especially the ZPD, and I know that we'll get a similar understanding of the subject since we both lack the knowledge to understand it properly. That's how learning things work. You need to understand the level before the material you wish to learn to even have a chance of understanding it else it'll just be too frustrating for you and you'll quit. This is exactly the process that the queue system fosters now.

[Khalisto.5780]

15 hours ago, Bunbury.8472 said:

how do you even know the players you are fighting in unranked are plat (top 100 players for NA btw there are like 90 plats in the region so running into a team of them is unlikely)?

those plat player rarely play solo in unranked, if you see one there, they're likely in a 3 man + party helping leveling their friends alts, you just watch the 600 ap core mesmer 1 shot you perfectly, not hard to tell actually, game goes 250-25 in 2 mins and at the and of the match (no) surprise!

[Bunbury.8472]

8 hours ago, Malus.2184 said:

You're correct as they beat me without ever having a chance to learn anything other than just getting killed fast. 

This is the Zone of Proximal Development (ZPD) theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_of_proximal_development) and it explains the underlying reason the current queue system is bad.

My experience in PvP is low so yeah, I would like to fight people at a similar skill level so I can learn and develop, and when those people become a snore to beat then I want to advance and fight people on my new skill level, repeat ad nausea.

I find it deeply insulting that your entire argumentation is based on insults and what I can only assume is a deliberate misunderstanding of the context since there is a lot of ad hominem based on imagined hypocrisy. You tell me to go watch some videos? I tell you to go read some textbooks on developmental psychology, especially the ZPD, and I know that we'll get a similar understanding of the subject since we both lack the knowledge to understand it properly. That's how learning things work. You need to understand the level before the material you wish to learn to even have a chance of understanding it else it'll just be too frustrating for you and you'll quit. This is exactly the process that the queue system fosters now.

my guy, watching a video is a substitute for a teacher or peer with more knowledge. it's literally in the wiki article. you will move from the small circle in the diagram into the next circle.

you will honestly be surprised by the amount of people running meta builds, or YouTube builds even in unranked. many people have done this, and it gives them a big edge over people who don't. PvP in games is way harder than PvE, and in old games it's usually full of old players so getting outside knowledge is a must, especially when the population is small and it is for PvP.

as for ad hominem, nope. low gold players are pretty terrible at the game. the gap between gold and actual plat AT players is massive. the average gold player has just learnt a build and is semi spamming skills. like, how hard are the npcs in the lobby for you? can you 1v1 svanir consistently? does the bear kill u? I can ask you these questions and you will I bet become offended, why because I'm saying you are terrible at the game? but your whole thread is about being unable to fight anyone in unranked who knows how to play their class as bad as you do. yet you don't want to watch videos or learn about your class to make your experience easier and more fun.

well, I guess your only option then is to lose matches constantly until your account MMR gets low enough that the matchmaker can find you those players. however with the game being as old as it is, and the fact people learn about their classes in other gamemodes you gotta know that there are not a lot of those players. also I would suggest only playing stronghold because the player skill level there is much lower, although the Q times are long.

[Malus.2184]

11 hours ago, Bunbury.8472 said:

my guy, watching a video is a substitute for a teacher or peer with more knowledge. it's literally in the wiki article. you will move from the small circle in the diagram into the next circle.

you will honestly be surprised by the amount of people running meta builds, or YouTube builds even in unranked. many people have done this, and it gives them a big edge over people who don't. PvP in games is way harder than PvE, and in old games it's usually full of old players so getting outside knowledge is a must, especially when the population is small and it is for PvP.

as for ad hominem, nope. low gold players are pretty terrible at the game. the gap between gold and actual plat AT players is massive. the average gold player has just learnt a build and is semi spamming skills. like, how hard are the npcs in the lobby for you? can you 1v1 svanir consistently? does the bear kill u? I can ask you these questions and you will I bet become offended, why because I'm saying you are terrible at the game? but your whole thread is about being unable to fight anyone in unranked who knows how to play their class as bad as you do. yet you don't want to watch videos or learn about your class to make your experience easier and more fun.

well, I guess your only option then is to lose matches constantly until your account MMR gets low enough that the matchmaker can find you those players. however with the game being as old as it is, and the fact people learn about their classes in other gamemodes you gotta know that there are not a lot of those players. also I would suggest only playing stronghold because the player skill level there is much lower, although the Q times are long.

None of what you say accounts for anything in the ZPD, meaning, you've never read the link and are just parroting "git gud scrub" mindlessly. I wonder if you are even able to understand what the wiki explains and that explanation is really basic, it's also long since you require a lot of knowledge to understand it properly. This is just a more elaborate repeat of your previous post, when it comes to argumentation it adds little new and is just a rehash of your last one with a bit of elaboration that adds nothing new.

It shows that you never understood the explanation in my link if you even bothered to read it, that should tell you how much value your "watch videos" has.

I'll grant you the argument though. Please tell me how watching videos will help me fight against weapon stowing to get animation cancels so they can do a barrage of attacks far faster than they could if they had to wait for the animations to play out,? I know they do that since there's already an uproar that you're unable to animation cancel Guardian Pistol 5 and Warrior Staff 3.