Enough with the Gimmicks

[Puck.3697]

12 minutes ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

opies sold does not equal to concurrently active players either if this is the data you're referring to. GW2 has 16 million accounts registered, as they advertise, but that in no way means there are 16 million players online all at once at peak times in a given day

Gw2 includes f2p accounts those data reports only count active subscriptions, it’s not rly the same

 

[KryTiKaL.3125]

  

2 minutes ago, Puck.3697 said:

Gw2 includes f2p accounts those data reports only count active subscriptions, it’s not rly the same

 

You really shouldn't be moving the goal post this much. So it has gone from "active players" to "copies sold" and now to "active subscriptions".

This all still really boils down to only being able to know estimates, and those estimates even then still do not fall within the range of active players at peak times in a day that you asserted earlier, again "big games of today have 10-20x the numbers" is what you said, seemingly comparing the GW2 daily peak population to that of WoW and FFXIV, or even other games not within the same genre. That is not accurate based on these estimates you are referencing, and also copies sold still does not equate to peak concurrent player population within a 24 hour period. Also there are platforms like Steam which do show play counts on games, where things like Elden Ring, Lost Ark, Baldur's Gate 3 and others have shown numbers hitting the 1 million, or close to, players active at peak times during the day.

You are conflating things that are not the same thing, at least by my understanding of what you're trying to convey here.

[Helgaley.3619]

4 minutes ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

  

You really shouldn't be moving the goal post this much. So it has gone from "active players" to "copies sold" and now to "active subscriptions".

This all still really boils down to only being able to know estimates, and those estimates even then still do not fall within the range of active players at peak times in a day that you asserted earlier, again "big games of today have 10-20x the numbers" is what you said, seemingly comparing the GW2 daily peak population to that of WoW and FFXIV, or even other games not within the same genre. That is not accurate based on these estimates you are referencing, and also copies sold still does not equate to peak concurrent player population within a 24 hour period. Also there are platforms like Steam which do show play counts on games, where things like Elden Ring, Lost Ark, Baldur's Gate 3 and others have shown numbers hitting the 1 million, or close to, players active at peak times during the day.

You are conflating things that are not the same thing, at least by my understanding of what you're trying to convey here.

Just let the record show that the main focus of my post was really not supposed to be player count. Lol. 

[Puck.3697]

1 hour ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

You really shouldn't be moving the goal post this much. So it has gone from "active players" to "copies sold" and now to "active subscriptions

lol no I simply said players

I’m saying WoW and ffxiv have more reliable number counts as in gw2 a f2p account flags as an active account where it doesn’t in the other 2 modes. 
 

you have to be paying a active sub in ffxiv and WoW to be counted as a player

active player counts in gw2 includes accounts that stopped playing 3 years ago, WoW is done by how many subs it has at a expansion launch and it’s likely if your paying money per month for the account ur prolly logging on. 
 

but they do relate to players, WoW and ffxiv have physical data separation to count only active players because of the sub based models. If your subs inactive you don’t count towards the number lol

 while in gw2 you do 

 

Edited March 6 by Puck.3697

[KryTiKaL.3125]

9 minutes ago, Puck.3697 said:

lol no I simply said players

I’m saying WoW and ffxiv have more reliable number counts as in gw2 a f2p account flags as an active account where it doesn’t in the other 2 modes. 
 

you have to be paying a active sub in ffxiv and WoW to be counted as a player

active player counts in gw2 includes accounts that stopped playing 3 years ago, WoW is done by how many subs it has at a expansion launch and it’s likely if your paying money per month for the account ur prolly logging on. 
 

but they do relate to players, WoW and ffxiv have physical data separation to count only active players because of the sub based models. If your subs inactive you don’t count towards the number lol

 while in gw2 you do 

 

Yes, I'm aware of how that would work...but these sites you are referencing to would not have access to that data unless specifically provided it by the studios...which the studios would not do.

You're assuming this is all data that these sites are pulling from the API, which is not something the API allows.

Again, statements released of copies sold is not relative to concurrent player numbers, which would be the only thing WoW and FFXIV have been reporting on. They don't explicitly report on concurrent player numbers and have not for a very long time, the only way to get those data estimates is from the sites you are likely looking at (I assume one would be mmo-population) but again, those monitor web traffic, and likely search trends...not the game databases. They don't have access to that.

Either you are wildly misunderstanding the validity of what "estimates" on these sites means or I have misunderstood what you're trying to convey, I really don't know at this point.

1 hour ago, Helgaley.3619 said:

Just let the record show that the main focus of my post was really not supposed to be player count. Lol. 

Yeah, I'm aware...I just got sent with their wild proclamation of "bigger games" somehow pulling 10 to 20 times more than 1 million players concurrently.

[Puck.3697]

1 hour ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

You're assuming this is all data that these sites are pulling from the API, which is not something the API allows.

Again, statements released of copies sold is not relative to concurrent player numbers, which would be the only thing WoW and FFXIV have been reporting on. They don't explicitly report on concurrent player numbers and have not for a very long time, the only way to get those data estimates is from the sites you are likely looking at (I assume one would be mmo-population) but again, those monitor web traffic, and likely search trends...not the game databases. They don't have access to that.

Either you are wildly misunderstanding the validity of what "estimates" on these sites means or I have misunderstood what you're trying to convey, I really don't know at this point

No, I’m stating that blizzard and FFXIv themselves release their launch numbers, they just don’t update player counts over the expansions which obviously fall

 granted in pretty sure WoW hasn’t hit 11mil since Shadowlands, I’m pretty certain it was 8 million in DF. 

how doesn’t copies sold directly relate btw? Are you saying a % of players buy a box copy of WoW to shelf and never play?…. Even if they only play for 1 month their still apart of launch numbers…

Edited March 6 by Puck.3697

[Puck.3697]

1 hour ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

Yeah, I'm aware...I just got sent with their wild proclamation of "bigger games" somehow pulling 10 to 20 times more than 1 million players concurrently

Except. 
 

if gw2 had 500k players, 10x would be 5 million, 20x would be 10 million… which are both numbers both these games have hit reliably in terms of popularity on content launch’s. 
 

it’s not as wild as you make out, when we are talking such low numbers and yes, 1 million people when your audience is world wide, is a tiny number of players in the potiental audience

we are talking the Big 2 of the mmorpg market, I’m sorry but they hit 5 million easy 😂 ffxiv most defintly does. 

Estimated numbers of continuous playing players sure isn’t accurate 100%, but their ballpark numbers realistically and a lot of data is extracted to pull the numbers on these things. 

And no, I don’t, creators of those games such as belluer in WoW, spend a lot of time releasing videos crunching numbers to work out % of players lost and estimates of averaging numbers as well as more. 

hence the whole “SL lost 60% of its players before the end of patch 1” went around concerning WoW that was his math that worked that out lol
 

WoW give access to player counts that have achieved achievements etc etc, as well as things like raider.io which track numbers if m+ dungeons done per week, ffxiv has outside leaderboards concerning several parts of its content as well. 
 

no these numbers tracked aren’t perfect but their not a mile off either 

 

Edited March 7 by Puck.3697

[KryTiKaL.3125]

2 hours ago, Puck.3697 said:

No, I’m stating that blizzard and FFXIv themselves release their launch numbers, they just don’t update player counts over the expansions which obviously fall

 granted in pretty sure WoW hasn’t hit 11mil since Shadowlands, I’m pretty certain it was 8 million in DF. 

how doesn’t copies sold directly relate btw? Are you saying a % of players buy a box copy of WoW to shelf and never play?…. Even if they only play for 1 month their still apart of launch numbers…

Copies sold simply means copies sold. We are not talking about total playerbase of a game, that of course goes much higher...frequency of activity is simply different. What we are talking about here, or what I thought we were talking about here, is concurrent players. So for instance, take Steam as an example, the amount of concurrent players within a 24 hour period for, say, Counter Strike 2 on Steam hits a consistent peak of 1.4 million players. That is what "concurrent players" means in this context. So say if WoW sold 4 million copies of The War Within, that does not mean the number of concurrent players within a 24 hour period hits a peak of 4 million players logged in all at the same time, even globally. Timezones, populations, etc (mainly time zones) play a factor there pretty heavily. Peak times in North America tend to start from 9 PM EST, which would be 6 PM PST for the west coast since that is a bit after people would normally be home from work so EU peak times are not going to be at the same exact times, of course. Do you understand what I'm getting at?

2 hours ago, Puck.3697 said:

Except. 
 

if gw2 had 500k players, 10x would be 5 million, 20x would be 10 million… which are both numbers both these games have hit reliably in terms of popularity on content launch’s. 
 

it’s not as wild as you make out, when we are talking such low numbers and yes, 1 million people when your audience is world wide, is a tiny number of players in the potiental audience

we are talking the Big 2 of the mmorpg market, I’m sorry but they hit 5 million easy 😂 ffxiv most defintly does. 

Estimated numbers of continuous playing players sure isn’t accurate 100%, but their ballpark numbers realistically and a lot of data is extracted to pull the numbers on these things. 

And no, I don’t, creators of those games such as belluer in WoW, spend a lot of time releasing videos crunching numbers to work out % of players lost and estimates of averaging numbers as well as more. 

hence the whole “SL lost 60% of its players before the end of patch 1” went around concerning WoW that was his math that worked that out lol
 

WoW give access to player counts that have achieved achievements etc etc, as well as things like raider.io which track numbers if m+ dungeons done per week, ffxiv has outside leaderboards concerning several parts of its content as well. 
 

no these numbers tracked aren’t perfect but their not a mile off either 

Yes, I'm aware of the Bellular video, but even he says in that very video that they are just making estimates based on data from those websites.

I think what is being misunderstood here is that I am not saying that they do not see upticks in population during expansion releases or otherwise, I am asserting that it is unlikely that they are hitting 5 million+ players online at once within the span of any given day, even during the first weeks of an expansion release. Again, time zones. Also again, the distinction here being online at the same time like the example I gave above with Counter Strike 2 (which is a massively popular shooter worldwide).

Though granted, yes, if a game has say...5 million registered accounts that are playing actively then their concurrent players will probably be in the 1 million range. But again, again, not all online at one time.

[Santo.2419]

On 3/1/2024 at 4:23 PM, Helgaley.3619 said:

If elementalists spend years asking for staff buffs or a long-bow or a rifle, maybe don't give them another bruiser type elite spec followed by a pistol

^ Listening to the people who play the game...madness.