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Let's discuss Pips.


Yasai.3549

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Energy is the backbone to the Revenant but it's often forgotten that Pips are the tiny little vertebrae that make up this spine. 

I want to discuss today about Pips and how the Revenant experience could start looking at Pips as a mechanic and make some tweaks to traits and such to enable this much overlooked feature to be the saviour of the class in terms of balance. 

What we understand about Revenant is that it's supposed to be a Class where there are three key features:
- Powerful Utilities

- Energy costs

- Shorter-than-normal cooldowns 

 

As a result, usually our powerful utilities are considered "hard to balance" by the devs (see Riposting Shadows) and when it comes to balancing, Devs keep slaughtering the skill via Energy costs as a balance mechanic. As such, the only obvious recompense is Energy Refund systems or Energy cost cutting if we ever want anything buffed to usability. Sometimes for certain modes, such refunds are even gutted to prevent too much Energy regained in a short span of time. (Competitive split for Empty Vessel and Charged Mists make them borderline useless)

Now here comes pips. Pips govern the rate in which Revenants regenerate their Energy, with +5 being the maximum and fastest regeneration. But what if we are given traits that enhance this rate instead of simply dumping Energy into our hands? Would this not make it slightly more balanced, but immensely useful for the Revenant player in order to manage their resource?

Take Charged Mist for example. Instead of dumping 25 Energy on us, what if, upon Legend Swap, we are given +3 Pips for 5 seconds? These +3 Pips can overcap the normal default of +5 into a +8 which makes Charged Mist a much better trait for players to regenerate Energy rapidly. And if they're a player who are using Upkeeps, they would have -3 Pip worth of Energy drain for 5 seconds! 

Since Corruption already has their own flavour of Pip Generation with their Replenishing Despair, why not give every Core Traitline something similar: 
- Invocation uses the Charged Mist concept suggested above

- Devastation grants +1 Pip Generation for 5 seconds if you are strike a target under 50% HP with a short ICD. 

- Salvation grants +1 Pip Generation for 5 seconds if you heal an ally with your Dodge Roll 

- Retribution grants +1 Pip Generation for 5 seconds if you are currently under the effect of Resolution.

 

What are your thoughts? 

Edited by Yasai.3549
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That would indeed be better, because overtime energy regeneration increase is easier to balance across pve, pvp, WvW. And because overtime effect requires still good energy management and pre-thinking in comparison then a flat number of energy increase currently. Because currently they indeed can't figure out the right energy cost/refund amount. 

So yes these features could indeed improve how it is currently.

 

There is 1 thing I don't like you suggested and that's on devastation trait when target is under 50% HP to get the pip increase. Rather put it when you apply vulnerability and with a icd ofc.

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5 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

There is 1 thing I don't like you suggested and that's on devastation trait when target is under 50% HP to get the pip increase. Rather put it when you apply vulnerability and with a icd ofc.

Toyed with "upon Vuln application" and "When hitting a Vuln enemy" but realized not every single Revenant weapon is able to apply Vuln reliably. 

Of other Strike oriented weapons, Hammer and Shortbow are unable to properly apply Vuln without Lightning Fields for example and such a trait would be too weak to have difficult conditionals. Only benefactors would really be Sword and Greatsword.

Alternatively, gain +1 Pip Generation for 5 seconds when you gain Quickness.

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8 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Toyed with "upon Vuln application" and "When hitting a Vuln enemy" but realized not every single Revenant weapon is able to apply Vuln reliably. 

Of other Strike oriented weapons, Hammer and Shortbow are unable to properly apply Vuln without Lightning Fields for example and such a trait would be too weak to have difficult conditionals. Only benefactors would really be Sword and Greatsword.

Alternatively, gain +1 Pip Generation for 5 seconds when you gain Quickness.

Well that's why there is also the trait we have now in devastation traitline => Exposing defenses. opening up gives and resets when elite is used. Yes this is a small bandcover but renegade, vindicator and herald in their stances have vulnerability appliance. Vindicator/renegade have even extra traits around it.

So there is a lot more vulnerability appliances then quickness aside pve Herald quickness

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Well that's why there is also the trait we have now in devastation traitline => Exposing defenses. opening up gives and resets when elite is used. Yes this is a small bandcover but renegade, vindicator and herald in their stances have vulnerability appliance. Vindicator/renegade have even extra traits around it.

So there is a lot more vulnerability appliances then quickness aside pve Herald quickness

IF Expose Defenses was changed to refresh on Legend Swap it would be great too. Generally don't want things that require external input to heavily affect the performance of a trait.

In regards to your second point: Brutality from Devastation and Song of The Mist (Shiro) from Invocation, and most PvE and PvP builds do use Shiro despite his state. 

Edited by Yasai.3549
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10 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Energy is the backbone to the Revenant but it's often forgotten that Pips are the tiny little vertebrae that make up this spine. 

I want to discuss today about Pips and how the Revenant experience could start looking at Pips as a mechanic and make some tweaks to traits and such to enable this much overlooked feature to be the saviour of the class in terms of balance. 

What we understand about Revenant is that it's supposed to be a Class where there are three key features:
- Powerful Utilities

- Energy costs

- Shorter-than-normal cooldowns 

 

As a result, usually our powerful utilities are considered "hard to balance" by the devs (see Riposting Shadows) and when it comes to balancing, Devs keep slaughtering the skill via Energy costs as a balance mechanic. As such, the only obvious recompense is Energy Refund systems or Energy cost cutting if we ever want anything buffed to usability. Sometimes for certain modes, such refunds are even gutted to prevent too much Energy regained in a short span of time. (Competitive split for Empty Vessel and Charged Mists make them borderline useless)

Now here comes pips. Pips govern the rate in which Revenants regenerate their Energy, with +5 being the maximum and fastest regeneration. But what if we are given traits that enhance this rate instead of simply dumping Energy into our hands? Would this not make it slightly more balanced, but immensely useful for the Revenant player in order to manage their resource?

Take Charged Mist for example. Instead of dumping 25 Energy on us, what if, upon Legend Swap, we are given +3 Pips for 5 seconds? These +3 Pips can overcap the normal default of +5 into a +8 which makes Charged Mist a much better trait for players to regenerate Energy rapidly. And if they're a player who are using Upkeeps, they would have -3 Pip worth of Energy drain for 5 seconds! 

Since Corruption already has their own flavour of Pip Generation with their Replenishing Despair, why not give every Core Traitline something similar: 
- Invocation uses the Charged Mist concept suggested above

- Devastation grants +1 Pip Generation for 5 seconds if you are strike a target under 50% HP with a short ICD. 

- Salvation grants +1 Pip Generation for 5 seconds if you heal an ally with your Dodge Roll 

- Retribution grants +1 Pip Generation for 5 seconds if you are currently under the effect of Resolution.

 

What are your thoughts? 

I agree about the revenant situation, but I don't know if I'd really be a fan of this kind of change. Because for me, even with this kind of trait, he'd manage to keep them to a minimum.
I'm not even sure that on paper they know what they want to do with the professions. Once they remove what made them unique, then they put all the buffs, now there are too many buffs. At this point, I don't even understand where they want to go or what they want to do.


Then again, maybe some utilities are strong, but unlike other classes you can't change them, so that can be both a strength and a weakness.
On the dwarf they broke the forced engagement, shiro the regeneration system on it, demon the protection system against alteration, ventari removed the alacrity. The renegat never repaired the system too, with zones where even on flat ground you couldn't put them down, herald no real change apart from a rotten shield for a very long time, vindicator nerf and bugs still present despite having explained them for 2 years.

Edited by Angesombre.4630
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4 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

IF Expose Defenses was changed to refresh on Legend Swap it would be great too. Generally don't want things that require external input to heavily affect the performance of a trait.

In regards to your second point: Brutality from Devastation and Song of The Mist (Shiro) from Invocation, and most PvE and PvP builds do use Shiro despite his state. 

It would be great if it also occurred on weapon swap indeed.

And why do you find external input as abilties from legendary stances/traits along with it? The amount of vulnerability applied occurs more then quickness overall even without swords/greatsword because of earlier summed up stuff. 

And I don't want to choose a specific grandmaster major trait for more quickness for that specific reason an extra pip.

I rather have they add 1 unblockable/removed stability stack with 3 max/target on that trait on icd. The stability removal won't be on icd though

Edited by arazoth.7290
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