The Retribution Traitline is a hot mess

[Ovark.2514]

So, looking at our minor traits we have one that gives a flat 25% endurance regen. This could be a nice buff if not for the second minor, which can, with concentration, over-cap Vigor (+50% endurance regen). And as we all know, endurance regeneration doesn't stack and will always use the highest value, rendering our first trait useless. Wiki says otherwise. They must have changed how endurance works since last I looked into it. Correction: While endurance DOES regenerate faster with both vigor AND the minor trait, actual testing reveals that when both are active, the bonus that the minor trait provides is only about +15%.

Our third minor trait comes out of left field and gives us damage reduction if we have Resolution - a boon not supplied by either of our other minor traits. In order to get Resolution from this traitline  you have to opt into the trait that gives Resolution on dodge or the one that gives it on legend swap. It's hard to imagine a world where you would ever need to take both, yet they are on different tiers, allowing you to make a "bad decision." Even if they were on the same tier, there is no third trait on this traitline which grants resolution in some way so you could easily build yourself out of having the 10% damage reduction from Determined Resolution (GM minor). How we can fix this problem is having 3 traits which can provide resolution on the same tier of the traitline so no matter which build you use, you can gain the benefit of Determined Resolution.

The only other theme on the traitline is weakness I guess. . . but there isn't even a GM which involves it in any way.

Close Quarters is weird and isn't a thing you can build around so it's not exciting

Dome of the Mists is potentially cool except it's kitten in competitive and is clunky in all game modes thanks to the ICD. Revs have 2 or 3 heal skills they can use at any time. Tying a trait to heal skill usage should be a Vindicator only thing since it's got the most heal skills it can use. This doesn't apply only to dome of the mists OFC.

The Resolution traitline is supposedly supposed to synergise the most with the Legendary Dwarf, except that DWARVEN BATTLE TRAINING synergises the WORST with Forced Engagement (dwarf ability) since that is the ONLY CC legend skill that's single target in all game modes AND has the second longest CD. Just absurd. . .

Also Vicious Reprisal is still bugged.

Also Versed in Stone suuuuucks.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

Edited March 9 by Ovark.2514
Typo+clarification

[Sereath.1428]

Yes, very underwhelming specialization. And the moment it started to be used by Vindicator, they nerfed every synergy to the ground. The peak of game design incompetence.
"You should only be playing Devastation, the only allowed way to play and be competitive is this way."
It's just mediocre at everything: bad sustain, bad damage, bad utility.

Edited March 9 by Sereath.1428

[Jobber.6348]

Retribution used to make sense when it revolved around RETALIATION not RESOLUTION. 

Its design was: 
- Stack Retaliate

- Null or reduce ranged incoming damage, forcing the enemy to fight in close range

- Beat the stuffing out of them with DBT + Sustain/Vicious Reprisal

- Win the duel with retaliation damage supplementing your own damage

It was a traitline that hinged upon this Boon which deflected hits on their attacker, which makes the traitline desirable to use as a sort of "tank traitline" and win by countering incoming hits. I would like this back again, even if Retaliation never comes back. 

Simple thing they can do immediately is make Vicious Reprisal do retaliation damage when the Revenant has Resolution. As of now Versed in Stone is simply the best GM trait because of the innate stunbreak as well as Condition resistance for niche builds that even want to run Retribution at all. 

Another thing is Close Quarters being straight up worse than Planar Protection. Would change it to a trait where Legend Swapping taunts nearby enemies with an ICD. 

[Angesombre.4630]

I understand the resolution is a kind of tank specialization that complemented "forced engagement" (which could hit 5 targets while other classes have grappling skills to 5 targets with more range). Personally, I've never used the dwarf grandmaster trick because the CD is too high for me.

As for toughness, we used to get it directly from the vindicator, but now we have to take a tank path to get it. But the funniest thing about this is the Competitive lane, where endurence regeneration goes from 25% to 10%, but even funnier:

• When the Vindicator specialization is equipped, the Vigor duration is 1 second in PvP and WvW.

Nerf originally when the vindicator had the bonus in the vindicator branch with the endurence regeneration bonus, but never upgraded since it was removed from the vindicator traits. What do you do with 1s?

 

This reminds me of when they modified resistance in general, but particularly affected "Pain absorption", at which point they would never have added resolution to the skill, so we went from invulnerability to alteration at the time to nothing on a skill that absobes allied alteration. A suicidal skill.

Edited March 9 by Angesombre.4630

[Ovark.2514]

8 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Retribution used to make sense when it revolved around RETALIATION not RESOLUTION. 

Its design was: 
- Stack Retaliate

- Null or reduce ranged incoming damage, forcing the enemy to fight in close range

- Beat the stuffing out of them with DBT + Sustain/Vicious Reprisal

- Win the duel with retaliation damage supplementing your own damage

It was a traitline that hinged upon this Boon which deflected hits on their attacker, which makes the traitline desirable to use as a sort of "tank traitline" and win by countering incoming hits. I would like this back again, even if Retaliation never comes back. 

Simple thing they can do immediately is make Vicious Reprisal do retaliation damage when the Revenant has Resolution. As of now Versed in Stone is simply the best GM trait because of the innate stunbreak as well as Condition resistance for niche builds that even want to run Retribution at all. 

Another thing is Close Quarters being straight up worse than Planar Protection. Would change it to a trait where Legend Swapping taunts nearby enemies with an ICD. 

I'm so glad retaliation isn't in the game anymore. I died so many times as an ele in PvP against a guard.

Also I forgot about the fact that Versed in Stone would also stunbreak you for free.

[Angesombre.4630]

I add a complement to my previous post as we shared, share and will share traits in common with the thief either for criticism or for vigor. The thief has the Daredevil which is not exactly like the vindicator, but similar.
The thief has 2 bonuses on acrobatics that give him more stamina, while he has 3 dodge bars, not to mention all the mobility and dodging via certain weapons and stealth (yes, he's lower on health).

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

2 hours ago, Ovark.2514 said:

And as we all know, endurance regeneration doesn't stack and will always use the highest value, rendering our first trait useless.

I'm like 99% sure it does stack. But only up to 100%... cause you can absolutely get your 10s baseline dodge down to 5s.

[Ovark.2514]

9 hours ago, UncreativeGreen.2019 said:

I'm like 99% sure it does stack. But only up to 100%... cause you can absolutely get your 10s baseline dodge down to 5s.

Oh I just looked it up and according to the wiki they changed it at some point to behave the way CLOSE to the way you describe. My bad. Adjusted post.

Edited March 9 by Ovark.2514
Testing

[Jobber.6348]

22 hours ago, Ovark.2514 said:

I'm so glad retaliation isn't in the game anymore. I died so many times as an ele in PvP against a guard.

Also I forgot about the fact that Versed in Stone would also stunbreak you for free.

Which was the point of Retaliation because it was only "good" on players with High Toughness, which was what made Tank builds actually have abit of bite and not totally useless meatshields. 

And its removal was not due to PvP. Retaliation in PvP is a joke due to how weak trinkets were to orient builds around. It was a WvW targeted balance because Ele Staff 5 onto 10 people with Retaliation will instantly down themselves.