Warrior solution (Staff)

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Its totally fine to play warrior. Absolutely no hate.  But pretending that its in any way shape or form remotely difficult to play or master is just blasphemy. 😄

Warrior is Bowser.

Dumb, straightforward skills, that everyone can see coming and that experienced players will avoid. The class is mechanically simple to play, but requires a sharper grasp on fundamentals than most other classes to play effectively at high level. Making people run into the dumb, straightforward skills is where the skill is.

Sure you can pick warrior up and win with it. You will also get smothered by anyone that has fought one before.

Also, warrior is not spellbreaker. Keep that in mind. There is a difference in difficulty and playstyle that comes from not having magebane and fullcounter that should not be taken for granted.

Edited April 12 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Sahne.6950]

Just now, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Warrior is bowser. 

Hehe 😛

Bowser has a clear weakness tho! Projectiles! And counters that work offstage! 

(I figured this out after playing against another Browser main for a whole night)

Next time ill beat you! ❤️(ihope)

 

[Sahne.6950]

4 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Dumb, straightforward skills, that everyone can see coming and that experienced players will avoid. The class is mechanically simple to play, but requires a sharper grasp on fundamentals than most other classes to play effectively at high level. Making people run into the dumb, straightforward skills is where the skill is.

To my defence!  15 frames startup is not alot, when you have ping from eu to na 😄

5 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Also, warrior is not spellbreaker. Keep that in mind. There is a difference in difficulty and playstyle that comes from not having magebane and fullcounter that should not be taken for granted.

Totally agree! When i say warrior, i ONLY mean the current iteration of staffbreaker.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

4 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Hehe 😛

Bowser has a clear weakness tho! Projectiles! And counters that work offstage! 

(I figured this out after playing against another Browser main for a whole night)

Next time ill beat you! ❤️(ihope)

Bowser can also block on demand, and blocking on demand perfectly puts you in disadvantage because up-b starts up so fast its unreactable.

See why it's doable? If the kit is usable there's all kinds of skill expression.

Edited April 12 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 minute ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Totally agree! When i say warrior, i ONLY mean the current iteration of staffbreaker.

Just checking. Some people  are using warrior and spellbreaker interchangeably, and their hangups with warrior (and staff) span the class. 

If that is the consensus I am fine with a skill split if players take spellbreaker, while using staff.

Edited April 12 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Sahne.6950]

3 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Just checking. Some people  are using warrior and spellbreaker interchangeably, and their hangups with warrior (and staff) span the class. \

If that is the consensus I am fine with a skill split if players take spellbreaker, while using staff.

That would help immensly. The defenses of staff+spellbreaker, paired with the dmg output of sword and the baseline boonrip of spellbreaker is why its so good, while core and berserker are still hot garbage.

They are missing the defenses that fullcounter offers, while also missing the cc combo opportunity from magebane.

Edited April 12 by Sahne.6950

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

10 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

That would help immensly. The defenses of staff+spellbreaker, paired with the dmg output of sword and the baseline boonrip of spellbreaker is why its so good, while core and berserker are still hot garbage.

Power berserker is playable with staff in its current form. You'd be surprised what a reliable block and a decent bit of sustain enables. After years of playing with none and instead trying to hit with increasingly difficult greatsword skills, a timeout weapon that isn't from 2012 was a large help. Probably works for core too, but power berserker is the only warrior variant that keeps me awake.

I'd like to not get the ele signet treatment again, if you catch my drift. Anet loves to do that if the issue is even remotely nebulous (and sometimes even if it isnt.), and itll be unfortunate if this is a repeat of "X build becomes playable for a month then because of Y spec X build is now unplayable again for the rest of the year"

If the problem is just staff with spellbreaker, that's absolutely fine imo. Just tie the staff nerf to the spec that is over-benefitting. It's already nerfed on zerker and it actively harms bladesworn for taking so simple enough.

Edited April 12 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Sahne.6950]

19 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

If the problem is just staff with spellbreaker

Hot take, and i might be wrong: 

But Staff isnt the problem.    Its spellbreaker.

I havent played during that time, but Spellbreaker was metasidenoder before staff got added, right?  

Edited April 12 by Sahne.6950

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

3 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Hot take, and i might be wrong: 

But Staff isnt the problem.    Its spellbreaker.

I havent played during that time, but Spellbreaker was metasidenoder before staff got added, right?   

I think that was druid. If it wasn't  then, it certainly will be now. Hammer Vindi is not far behind.
Think about the weapon options spellbreaker had -without- staff, and how those options work in practice for sidenoding. I don't think nerfing spellbreaker traits is the solution either. I don't think people were complaining about immortal spellbreakers pre-staff, just lamenting being stunlocked by hammer ones.

Edited April 12 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Sahne.6950]

20 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I don't think nerfing spellbreaker traits is the solution either. 

ill take your word for it, cuz i dont know better.

But the whole specialisation appears very strong , when comparing it to other things.

Fullcounter in its current frequency, magebanetether AND the most boonrip of all specs in this whole game, just seems like such a strong kit, and its defo making me hit a brickwall as ele.  It was a brickwall even before staff. 

Since staff.... that brickwall got hands and is chasing me in my dreams.  

 

maybe ele just sucks... idk man :C

Edited April 12 by Sahne.6950

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

But the whole specialisation appears very strong , when comparing it to other things.

Fullcounter in its current frequency, magebanetether AND the most boonrip of all specs in this whole game, just seems like such a strong kit, and its defo screwing me over as ele.

I can't recall having problems with spellbreaker between the weird longbow build and now, but maybe I am biased. I don't play spb, so my opinion on that is from the matchup perspective mostly, I'd like to think, but~

Quote

maybe ele just sucks... idk man :C

I think cata is performing, but the other specs arent? 

[Sahne.6950]

34 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I think cata is performing, but the other specs arent?

Spoiler

The stabi nerf made cata really susceptible to CC.  After your one and only stunbreak, you are glass.     Hammercata needs to be able to someeewhat hold the node... which is not feasible against CC heavy Spellbreaker.  The interaction of your orbs with fullcounter is enough to make this matchup a auto-lose for ele.

Fireweaver gets kitten on by Spellbreaker too.      (cant fulfill his sidenode role and is absolutely not suited for anything else)

Tempest cant get off its overloads in the Damageheavy meta when playing as support.  You literally melt during a single overload.    Now you pair that with the fact spellbreaker can interrupt every overload, so that also deletes the sidenode bunkertempest, which means tempest is also not playable.

FAWeaver caaaaan be played.... but its heavily outclassed by things like Scrapper and Deadeye and Ranger.    No need to run it.  You are literally a burden for your team most of the time.   12k hp in this meta?  good luck, if your not DH, which can hide behind multiple blockskills while attacking.

 

There is not a single Ele build that shines anywhere. no build that stands out.  For every role, that you could possibly fill, there is another profession that simply does it better, and atleast 1 build thats currently in the meta that will outright delete you.  

People are only playing Ele for enjoyment, and not because its good.    Or do you see alot of good eles in your games?       The only eles i see in EU are either complete newcomers that havent yet understood that their favorite class succs, the 2 eles i teached a year ago, who are still running my weird offmeta builds.... or its Zeus... who looses to my supreme  "Fullcounter while you are knocked down" tactics....    

Ele is not in a good position right now.   

Its not exactly that ele is weak, infact ele is hitting pretty hard right now... its just that the current metabuilds have a very easy time going up against ele.  Deadeye is good against hammercata/fireweaver. Reaper chill screws over attunementswitches, especially on tempest, Spellbreaker hardcounters Hammercata like crazy, yada yada.

Edited April 12 by Sahne.6950

[Lucentfir.7430]

1 hour ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Things like pulling with magebane....like....  its literally a matter of pressing the Staff 3 behind you.  and then greeting your enemy with another CC to get your roflcombo going.  

Arent these things pretty basic?    Isnt that baseline how you play? I see chain. i leap behind.  me profit.   

  you absolutely dont need to do the rush trick.... infact, you dont even run greatsword anymore. And  if you would run it, or simply do it with bullscharge, then its a matter of pressing tap, the second you see he got pulled.    Is that challenging?  or is it very generous, that you can retarget midjump?    Ele cant do this for example.   i wish we could... but we cant.

Same for the Breachingstrike jump trick.   Absolutely no need for that.     Its about holding tiny nodes, which you can completly cover with the baseline Breachingstrike..

 

I know i am kind of ranting, sorry for that....

... maybe i should rephrase it.     The skill level you need, to be ontop of 95% of players, is very easy to reach.   You can evolve beyond that, but at the current performance level of warrior its is absolutely not needed to go beyond basic mechanics.  They are more than enough, to beat anything thats not a warrior himself.       Mechanical finesse just comes into play when you are having a mirrormatch between good warriors.

Just to be clear this is reference to pre-staff release. I still run GS/Dagger/X. I don't like playing staff, and I feel it's already on the radar to get some tuning sometime in the future, staff provides lots of things warrior didn't easily have access to like prot regen and reso which made them less prone to chipping. You do the rush trick if you want rush to land or want someone to expend CDs, and when it does crit and the target has no prot it can hit for 5k+. To even pull off the combo to begin with you'd have needed to hit them with a burst skill or FC, to have them tethered. I've had my fair share of fights where the person is smart enough if I try to move away from them to pull them, they follow along at a safe enough distance and deny me the pull, and since the CCs are pretty telegraphed like Shield Bash and Bull's Charge, there's also a good chance they'll evade as soon as those go out(which they do 60% of the time in my experience)

Rush is a dash and not a leap there's a difference there, dashes keep you anchored to the ground. Leaps get you off the ground over things and a neat trick is that if you have  weapon swapping available in the middle of it lets you arc further instead of landing at your max range.  

Breaching Strike trick is  sparsely used for just a little more extra distance and a little more mind gaming to make people think they're out of range, mostly a dueler thing. 


 

 

47 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Hot take, and i might be wrong: 

But Staff isnt the problem.    Its spellbreaker.

I havent played during that time, but Spellbreaker was metasidenoder before staff got added, right?  

Spellbreaker was rarely seen but it was a decent/good build still, during the time iirc I saw tons of Untamed/Condi Slb and Vindi, and a handful of Willbenders. And then going back a little further Bladesworn and Condi Zerker were menaces and not much of a peep from Spb aside for the occasional complaint about hammer.

 

33 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

ill take your word for it, cuz i dont know better.

But the whole specialisation appears very strong , when comparing it to other things.

Fullcounter in its current frequency, magebanetether AND the most boonrip of all specs in this whole game, just seems like such a strong kit, and its defo screwing me over as ele.

 

maybe ele just sucks... idk man :C

It is strong spec for sure, gives the tools to punch through obnoxious boon spam, and a active defense counter attack button. It definitely does screw over some forms of ele if you're heavily dependent on defensive boons though. It has its short comings though since it can still be infinitely kited and denied sustain if none of the burst skills hit, it's entirely melee, and it doesn't have any ports . Ele's state is just the ways of balance in Spvp where things are trying to be balanced and stripped down. Outside of Spvp.  given the right tools/stats they become really hard to manage. (Also Signet Scepter Cata still exists in WvW roaming.) 

Edited April 12 by Lucentfir.7430

[Sahne.6950]

2 minutes ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

Also Signet Scepter Cata still exists in WvW roaming.

The whole of ele is a menace in WvW. 😂

[Lucentfir.7430]

7 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

The whole of ele is a menace in WvW. 😂

Ngl i dread when I run into a Harb, Ele, Druid/Untamed, or Engi, they always tend to be uphill battles when decent players are playing them.  Ele wise I've ran into most forms of cata(and played one myself), scary FA weavers,  Strange Condi Tempest/Snoozer Bunker healers, and the rare dueler core ele. 

Edited April 12 by Lucentfir.7430

[Sahne.6950]

15 minutes ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

rare dueler core ele. 

--> HI <--

 

Not trynna kitten talk, pls dont understand it like that.

But if you are struggling against a ele, you are getting outskilled.   HARD.     or you are playing Ranger.

Ele can work in a vacuum. Infact its pretty okay for duelling in the FFA.  But it crumbles in a real conquest match, where mobility/ holding nodes/ outnumbering/ and snowballing come into the picture.     Alot of eles properties simply havent aged well or got completly shafted thanks to the sceptre rework.

Just take FAWeaver for example: its main defense used to be Superspeed kiting.   But nowadays you have less superspeed than berserker.....   You are getting outsped by guardians!  Whats the advantage here?   good damage?   My plasmabeam hits less than warrior sword4,..... so.. why play FAweaver?    Why the hassle?

Because its fun!  but thats where it stops sadly.

(i think we should stop derailing. Thread isnt rly about ele) x)

Edited April 12 by Sahne.6950

[Lucentfir.7430]

24 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

--> HI <--

 

Not trynna kitten talk, pls dont understand it like that.

But if you are struggling against a ele, you are getting outskilled.   HARD.     or you are playing Ranger, or a really weird build.

(i think we should stop derailing) x)

Again I should've probably mentioned in that dread post I'm talking about WvW encounters also Core dueler ele the one I ran across was D/D like from ye olden days and not FA. Core eles and eles in general aren't much of a struggle in spvp unless they're the really good ones like Andres Teehees, certain ICONIC FA weaver and then Poelala a few times in unranked and they're fun fights when i get them, I can recognize where I go down if I do. 

Edit: in anycase back on topic, probably should just nerf staff 's base healing values so it needs investment in healing power to heal as much as it does now. I'd say go with Azure's suggestion but I don't think Anet does the splits by spec basis making it doubtful. 

Edited April 12 by Lucentfir.7430

[Sahne.6950]

21 minutes ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

 

Edit: in anycase back on topic, probably should just nerf staff 's base healing values so it needs investment in healing power to heal as much as it does now. I'd say go with Azure's suggestion but I don't think Anet does the splits by spec basis making it doubtful. 

They literally cut eles superspeed in half when slotting the freshair trait. 

They are more than capable of doing "X is nerfed when also slotting Y" they just did it last patch.

Its a good idea.

Edited April 12 by Sahne.6950

[Lucentfir.7430]

1 minute ago, Sahne.6950 said:

They literally cut eles superspeed in half when slotting the freshair trait. 

They are more than capable of doing this. 

Its a good idea.

It's a bit different since it's a trait compared to the actual weapon skills. Though if they can do it I'd say roll out the nerfs to Spb staff because that's certainly a good idea.  

[Sahne.6950]

4 minutes ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

It's a bit different since it's a trait compared to the actual weapon skills. Though if they can do it I'd say roll out the nerfs to Spb staff because that's certainly a good idea.  

I dont think there is a difference for the code if something is a weaponskill or a trait. 

But im also by no means a expert. 😅

[Lucentfir.7430]

1 minute ago, Sahne.6950 said:

I dont think there is a difference for the code if something is a weaponskill or a trait. 

But im also by no means a expert. 😅

I don't know either but until I see some some example of changes between spec and weapon balancing, I'm going to just assume there's a difference. I'm also no expert nor do I have the insight how Anet codes their game is this regard 🤔

[Sahne.6950]

48 minutes ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

I don't know either but until I see some some example of changes between spec and weapon balancing, I'm going to just assume there's a difference. I'm also no expert nor do I have the insight how Anet codes their game is this regard 🤔

Have they seriously never done this before?

Edited April 12 by Sahne.6950

[Myror.7521]

@Sahne.6950 while you are right with the rest. Its like the easiest thing to do. Play around this one mechanic and completely shut down their dmg and self healing. On the others its only a thing on "not doing dmg". Just think about it xD. All you need to do is not hit in his full counter or dodge it.... simple as that.  And he will not be able to do anything to you as long as you kite around it. While he will also Miss his adrenal health stacks, most of his dmg and most of his cleanes options but also his might Generation...... its maybe easy to play against players that doesn't know this but its also kind of a self hurt mechanic cause most things relie on to hitting this one Skill xd

 

This is also the reason why staff is so good. Simply cause this one weapon negate like 3 out Off 4 things you would miss otherwise (selfhealing and a pull mainly). Its also the reason why staff warr is so forgiving n stuff ^^

Edited April 12 by Myror.7521

[Sahne.6950]

34 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Sahne.6950 Just think about it xD. All you need to do is not hit in his full counter or dodge it.... simple as that.

like i said earlier, for the majority of the cast, its not as easy as "simply dont hit the fullcounter".  

lingering aoes, bs like Hammercata orbs, Ai´s like clones and pets, active useage of fullcounter on enemy telegraphed skills, multihit skills like Plasmabeam/shadowassault/ray of judgement.   you name it.   HECK! Even stunbreaking on ele, produces a hit... i cant count the times, where some dumb spb cced me, then fullcountered, and my literal stunbreak (signet of air), triggered the Fullcounter, which then CCed me again...  I cant count the times, where i overload to get sustain, and some spb presses Fullcounter, and that button press alone forces me to completly abort mission and interrupt my Overload, effectively locking me out of my sustain/cleanse/AND protection.  Playing around it is not easy for alot of specs, and even when playing around it, like i did in the tempest example, it still results in me loosing protection, loosing my aura, and loosing roughly 1k healing.   EVEN WHEN PLAYING IT PERFECT, it still punishes me.

 

Its also not only about the "you are getting stunned as punishment"-part.  You can dodge that most of the time.

The simple fact, you get a stabi/block/evade... whatever the fk it is XD    every 12 seconds is b0nkers in itself, regardless of the stun/condi cleanse/ copy shenanigans, that are also attached to fullcounter.

  Its a literal "stop pressuring me"-card you can play every 12 seconds.  

OH KITTY MY KITTENS! I AM GETTING BURSTED   *click*     not anymore 😎   

Fullcounter is hands down one of the strongest things in all of gw2.

Edited April 12 by Sahne.6950

[Myror.7521]

@Sahne.6950 well its 100% a PvP spec yes sir xd. It just makes the warr more defensive cause of how "don't pressure me" button