How feasible for PVP is a only-signet-passive-build?

[DarkK.7368]

I'm trying to make a build based on dodges and parries (offhand pistol, that thing is naaasty to interrupt). I got the relic and the sigils that steal boons and give me boons per interrupt/disable, some permavigor to dodge more... and considered using signets in all skills and never activating them. For the heal signet, we would heal constantly per hit (add elite dagger storm, because no elite signet, that spams daggers and counts as healing skill). Then signets for +25% movement speed for mobility, +precision for damage, and +initiative for more actions. Then full reactive play with only initiative weapon skills.

For now I'm trying sword for mainhand, and I'm considering having the daredevil dodge that is a jump finisher to have lots of stealths with pistol smoke field, stealth gives back lots of sustain and initiative if traited.

My only concern is not having some stunbreaker, but that can be fixed. Anyway... how do you see some build with this idea? Less buttons, more passive strength, and more focus and precision on the buttons you have.

Edited July 26 by DarkK.7368

[bq pd.2148]

4 hours ago, DarkK.7368 said:

I Less buttons, more passive strength, and more focus and precision on the buttons you have.

less buttons means you have an easier time utilizing the full potential of the build, but it also means the build has less options to handle what your opponent throws at you.

now this game is rather old and while there are plenty of people who can play this game for years without learning the basics, there are now plenty of people with a decent enough experience level that they can and will use builds with higher potential than yours to a sufficient degree that your build wont be able to keep up.
spvp has a low population and WvW has no matchmaking for small scale encounters to begin with, that you will regularly run into people that you simply can not beat with that build/approach.

if you are alright with that limitation and have fun with it, go for it. for fun is the most important reason to play a build, i would presume that for many however your build is too weak to truly enjoy.


lets get more into the details of what your build does/doesnt:
first of all when you say pvp, do you specifically mean spvp or WvW? the former is a lot more restricted in terms of what works, because encounters are more balanced and there is a scoring context that actually evaluates performance, while goals and play styles in WvW can be a lot more varied.
for spvp consider what role your build could even cover? too slow to roam, to weak to sidenode/teamfight.  personally no idea what would be the purpose of it for your team. what can your mates expect from you?
for WvW on the other hand, the warclaw alone lets you pick/avoid many fights so just go for fights you think you can take or at least enjoy trying.

4 hours ago, DarkK.7368 said:

I'm trying to make a build based on dodges and parries (offhand pistol, that thing is naaasty to interrupt).

• dodges are awesome if you know what to dodge to begin with, but they are also all animation locks that experienced opponents will use to time their burst/cc, so you will be hit by it right after your dodge.
• parries do not exist really, tho i suppose upcoming spear skill 5 is kind of a parry.  for most skills this is still too costly / too many skills are multihit.
• interrupts used to be really strong and enough to kill people with PI, but they have been nerfed.
  interrupting for the most part sets the skills interrupted on a ~5s cooldown, so you then still need to have enough in your kit to actually pressure the target sufficiently in these 5 seconds before they use the skill again.
  headshot is really expensive in terms of initiative and does not do anything besides interrupt. so i personally end up rarely interrupting with this skills specifically, usually only heal skills or like a tempest overload and then only if i do not have steal or don't want to use it for specific reasons. not to mention that a lot of single stack stab/aegis spamm these days make for rare opportunities to even land it to begin with.

5 hours ago, DarkK.7368 said:

I'I got the relic and the sigils that steal boons and give me boons per interrupt/disable, some permavigor to dodge more... and considered using signets in all skills and never activating them.

• the relic is on disable, but the sigils are only on interrupting. so you can not just spam a headshot and gain their effect, your target needs to be actually interrupted by it.
• using signet only is already a severe limitation, not using them ever means you are not even utilizing the potential of the build you are running further cutting into your overall performance. i would advice against such a restriction.

5 hours ago, DarkK.7368 said:

For now I'm trying sword for mainhand, and I'm considering having the daredevil dodge that is a jump finisher to have lots of stealths with pistol smoke field, stealth gives back lots of sustain and initiative if traited.

running bound over dash, you should be aware that the usual weaknesses are:

• lack of mobility, now sword can compensate that if you are good at using your skill 2 to kite your enemies but they might have an easy time to kite you if you do not have more swiftness/speed sources.
• using smoke + bound and shadow arts as a large part of your sustain means your 2 main weaknesses are immob and reveal. unless you have placed your sword 2 port beyond LoS, it will be difficult for your build to deal with either. try to keep your daggerstorm as a defensive skill for such a situation. but generally i prefer for smoke + bound builds to run withdraw and/or RoI for the immob and shadowstep/shadow portal against reveal. be aware that these can shut down your defenses and work out some gameplan on what you will do with your build once you inevitably find yourself immobilized or revealed.

5 hours ago, DarkK.7368 said:

My only concern is not having some stunbreaker, but that can be fixed.

infiltrator's signet is a stunbreak, but ofc you would have to actively use it.
 

5 hours ago, DarkK.7368 said:

Less buttons, more passive strength, and more focus and precision on the buttons you have.

it is only more focus on precision, if a more complex build overwhelms you too much.
i think with more experience you only will be holding yourself back with a passive playstyle.
these days its also a lot more spammy gameplay, used to be more precise when the game was slower but also when we (specifically WvW) had more damage across the board (before feb 2020 and patches leading up to it)

[DeceiverX.8361]

The long of the short of it is that it doesn't work because signet actives are mostly bad in conjunction with each other, and you desperately need the utility that comes on other skills to deal with other players also using more skills.  And there is no world where the tiny boosts in stats from signet passives are worthwhile enough to stat-check other players.  Especially when most other players' builds are stat-checking you with more HP/armor/boons from the start.

A boon-oriented build alone on any class has double your overall stats from your entire collective of armor and weapons.  A few hundred bonus offensive stats will simply not make a difference in today's game.

The signet traits are also terrible, and you don't get passive stats/effects when signets are on cooldown.  Meaning you have weaker actives compared to other skills with no stat benefits.

There was a point in time where signet builds allowed thieves to pop all their actives before engaging and gain a ridiculous amount of extra damage upfront for a brief window at the expense of having effectively zero utility slots for the rest of the fight.  They nerfed all these traits into unusable-tier bad in the PvP modes, though, and also nerfed most skills' damage coefficients that could make use of this bonus power/damage amplification.

Most people take Infil signet or Signet of Agility for their active effects.  Assassin's and Shadow are downright bad, and Signet of Malice is terrible for PvP where you'll be constantly under CC or taking way too much damage to get any meaningful healing, and its long cast, low heal, and no extra utility generally makes it way too weak to utilize when most other players will just interrupt the cast or downright kill you during its channel.

[Dadnir.5038]

Is it feasible? Yes.

In sPvP? You'll probably find yourself in a tight spot there if you try.

In WvW? Based on your own skill level it can either work very well or be a catastrophic faillure. The dividing point being whether you're good enough to not need utilities at all.

[Jobber.6348]

Wise man once said: Anything is feasible if you are good enough to pull it off.

If you are good enough that you can not rely on built in evades in utilities like Roll of Initiative and Withdraw, Stealth from Hide In Shadow and Smoke Screen, or utilities like a ground targeted Shadowstep, then it will probably be just fine. Who knows, you may be attuned to such a playstyle. 

[DeceiverX.8361]

On 7/28/2024 at 9:06 AM, Jobber.6348 said:

Wise man once said: Anything is feasible if you are good enough to pull it off.

If you are good enough that you can not rely on built in evades in utilities like Roll of Initiative and Withdraw, Stealth from Hide In Shadow and Smoke Screen, or utilities like a ground targeted Shadowstep, then it will probably be just fine. Who knows, you may be attuned to such a playstyle. 

I played signets for years and years, much even after its first few rounds of nerfs.

Aside from ganking unsuspecting zerglings or glass builds who are running alone, you will actually straight-up get stat-checked by any remotely competent player playing a prominent build.

With lack of utilities comes a lot of lack of pressure or avoidance thereof, and there are some builds you more or less mathematically cannot beat so long as they don't decide to just stop playing.