I can't prevent myself thinking there are cheat/script usage in PvP

[la penombre.2415]

Hello,

I am used to play very various video games, including MOBAs, other MMOs, sometimes RTS, sometimes FPS or all others (sometimes not PvP games at all).

I have played GW2 since it's release. I surely spend all over around 2 or 3 total years on this game, especially at his release. I like to come back from time to time to PvP and see how the game mode evolved (eventually WvW too), but honestly, it's been a long time I almost give up the game because I got lazy on it (the laziness highly improved way after HoT release).

Sometimes I liked the changes, other times not, but this is not the subject.

On the recent time I came back to this game for PvP, I discovered a build I really love to play on thief : a true assassin build that allow me to delete anyone from existence within 4 seconds while I can come from stealth, with a 30s cooldown (1 second to down, and 2,5s to execute with the daredevil elite skill).

To make it easier to understand, my combo can be used out of stealth or right just after I lose stealth, I can steal to teleport, use "Impairing daggers" right before, which are projectiles (the 3rd root, preventing dodge roll), with quickness boon, it makes the projectiles hit almost instantly.

So, after playing it many times, there are several moments where players seems to dodge roll or react with a specific skill with a crazy or even anormal reaction time (I am talking about lower than 160ms), even though, they were sometimes absolutely not fighting at all.

Yes, it is true that there are many reasons how a player would be able to dodge roll that fast despite the burst coming from stealth :
- They saw me went in stealth and were prepared to dodge/react. Even though, the reaction time can be crazy low in a pretty consistant time or you don't often see them trying to predict your attack coming with random dodge rolls.
- They were fighting, so they could have naturally dodge/react to another enemy while I was not focusing enough on the action. Even though, it happened they used a random dodge roll at the perfect moment whereas they were not focused at all from any enemy. This or they just chain their defensive abilities, after all, there are many defensive abilities in the game.

Outside of those situations, ennemies should have their guard down, but still, it's often crazy how some player can literally react at the exact moment you use steal or the exact moment you start launching the 3 projectiles from stealth and at very close range.

Just today, I was in a match where I went in stealth for 9 seconds in order to plan defend a point from a mesmer which was moving toward it (he was not a mirage), and at the moment I teleport to throw daggers (note that after steal, daggers hit after like beetwen 40-150ms with practice), he immediatly use the custom ability that create an area that reflect projectiles for 7s, like, really ? Is this the first usual reaction of an human being toward a stealth attack ?
I have met other similar situations like a necromancer that could nearly instant fear me (or bump me into the air with the harbinger spec with deathshroud) when I ambushed him, or mesmers using 2nd sword skill, many times it's at the perfect time the daggers are going to hit, but it's dodged/reacted, and it really feels weird because, I could assume their attention, at many times, couldn't possibly be on me since I came from stealth (and once again, it's rare to see enemies attempt to predict a stealth attack spending defensive abilities in the void).

I am usually really open to explanations and thinking that we can train to get crazy better at the game, but at some point, I can't prevent myself thinking there are cheat/script involved at some point, considering how often I meet those absurd circumstances, often on a new opponent I have never fought before, so who couldn't know what is my opening strike.
More strange also is that I have never feel that way before, during my whole 2-3 total years of playing GW2, it only started to ticking me when I came back 4-5 months ago.

I would like to know if you also have experienced this and if you think there are players using cheat/script in PvP.

[Last Crab.6054]

I don't think, I know there are players that cheat and hack in pvp, some more egregious than others, but it doesn't matter, thye won't get banned or they are on an account that doesn't matter.

[HallMonitor.6392]

Quote

Is this the first usual reaction of an human being toward a stealth attack ?

I would say yes, but in general. A lot of people just blow all their cool downs as they enter a fight so I’ve noticed when I attack people they use blocks/reflects/ect early. So if you can do an engagement, feign, the engage again you probably will see some positive results 

[notamain.2839]

9 hours ago, la penombre.2415 said:

he immediatly use the custom ability that create an area that reflect projectiles for 7s, like, really ? Is this the first usual reaction of an human being toward a stealth attack ?

This utility also grants superspeed. So if they were moving towards the node they might just used it to get there faster and it was the perfect timing when you casted your daggers.

[la penombre.2415]

3 hours ago, HallMonitor.6392 said:

I would say yes, but in general. A lot of people just blow all their cool downs as they enter a fight so I’ve noticed when I attack people they use blocks/reflects/ect early. So if you can do an engagement, feign, the engage again you probably will see some positive results 

Considering the amount of damage in the game, it's understandable people use many defensive abilities at start, but that fast ?

I can only aknowledge feign attacks, but I hardly see the interest to do it from stealth.

1 hour ago, notamain.2839 said:

This utility also grants superspeed. So if they were moving towards the node they might just used it to get there faster and it was the perfect timing when you casted your daggers.

Oh I see, it might be a random moment. Specifically in my case, he was like 2 meters from entering the node (the moment, I guess, people have their guard most probably down due to thinking "I am going to be able to decap now"). It still felt weird in the moment, he had like 7 seconds before to use it to gain the speed.

[Avatar.3568]

I can not speak for other players, but I can speak for me, you can see effects of skills Bering used, when you are in stealth, when a pistol shot or your daggers fly, I will Recognize it and dodge or block. When they see you stealthing up, they also could get a big warning in their head. 

I've seen teleport hacks but I've never seen or heard of such scripting hacks, especially they would be very specific (harbinger shroud 5 would be most of the time useless)

 

 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

13 hours ago, la penombre.2415 said:

I would like to know if you also have experienced this and if you think there are players using cheat/script in PvP.

There is definitely a bunch of mods/scripts/hacks being used in pvp. This is certain.

But honestly man, you also have people around who have been playing this game for 12 years. When you have 30,000+ games played in GW2, this is a lot of time learning how to fight thieves. It gets to a point where even without conscious effort, very old players know when to dodge roll a stealth attack. We've been against the same weapon styles for 12 years now. If you see a DP or SD or DE go into stealth, your brain has fought against this stuff or played as it so many times, that your subconscious becomes formatted and is able to effortlessly interpret how long the thief will be in stealth for the weapon set he's using and the action he's trying to take. Instincts will say "dodge now" and old players will be right like 90% of the time. Because even without consciously realizing it, the subconscious has been taking in and digesting seeing the same old "stealth and then go for a backstab" so many times over the years, that it just culminates into your mind "knowing" when to dodge roll. With older players like this, you've got to shake up your approach and do more sporadic weird actions that are not so interpretable. Like go for strikes faster than normal or wait a bit longer before doing it. Stuff like that. But don't do the same old telegraphed routine every time, otherwise the older more formatted players are gonna look like they're psychic dodge rolling you.

As for how to tell if a player is using script or just good? I'd say this:

1. If you engage combat and THEN during the already engaged combat, the player seems to know when to dodge your stealth attacks, he's probably just a very old formatted player who is reading the telegraphs of your stealth sneak attack routines. Start being more sporadic.
2. But if you do something real crazy and there is absolutely no way the player could know you are there and it still dodges, yeah that's some BS going on. Example: You perma stealth from home node to far node. When you get there, 1 opponent arrives same time and tries to cap. You've been in stealth for 15s and went from your home node to the far node, and the opponent came from his spawn to that same node. There is no way that player could have seen you. All other players are at a team fight at mid. You are alone with that opponent on the node. You go to backstab and he dodges. < Now that would indicate some kind of 3rd party software BS going on.

Edited August 22 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[la penombre.2415]

2 hours ago, Avatar.3568 said:

I can not speak for other players, but I can speak for me, you can see effects of skills Bering used, when you are in stealth, when a pistol shot or your daggers fly, I will Recognize it and dodge or block. When they see you stealthing up, they also could get a big warning in their head. 

I've seen teleport hacks but I've never seen or heard of such scripting hacks, especially they would be very specific (harbinger shroud 5 would be most of the time useless)

 

 

Yes I am aware of that and agree with you, that's the reason I am throwing dagger at very close range or right after teleport : so that ordinary movement don't make it dodge randomly while I reduce his time to react to it.

@Trevor Boyer.6524  I can only agree with what you said as I also happened to luckily dodge such attacks with practice and experience, so I feel it.

In the same way that when I observed that ennemies sometimes dodge the burst, I started to consider I was too predictive and managed to land the burst at different times after going in stealth for example.

At the end, it's true it's definitly not simple to relate if someone use cheat/scripts or not, I can only relate on my feeling toward an ennemy : It often happen that I admit the ennemy is just being good considering his behaviour correlate with what a good player is supposed to play, while I sometimes feel weird about some specific situations.

It's also true that it's easy to relax and end up doing the same combo at the same time without being aware of it, I'll consider using more sporadic approach than before.