Revenant October 8 balance patch preview

[Buran.3796]

Revenant

We've focused on improving the viability of some underperforming revenant builds in competitive modes with damage improvements to herald and main-hand sword, defensive improvements to Legendary Renegade Stance, and an increase to the outgoing healing bonuses in the Salvation trait line for potential support builds in PvP.

• Chilling Isolation: Increased the power coefficient from 0.5 to 0.7 in PvP and WvW.
• Notoriety: Increased the might stacks from 1 to 2 in PvP and WvW.
• Resolute Evasion: Increased the resolution duration from 2 seconds to 2.5 seconds. This trait now also grants a small strike damage reduction for 2.5 seconds after dodging.
• Invoking Harmony: Increased the outgoing healing bonus from 10% to 15% in PvP only.
• Serene Rejuvenation: Increased the outgoing healing bonus from 15% to 20% in PvP only.

Herald

• Shining Aspects: Increased the healing from 533 to 640.
• Forceful Persistence: Increased the damage bonus from 13% to 15% in PvP and WvW. Increased the facet damage bonus from 3% to 4% in PvP and WvW.

Renegade

• Breakrazor's Bastion: Increased the base barrier when enhanced from 1,480 to 1,960.
• Soulcleave's Summit: Increased the healing when using a Legendary Renegade skill from 929 to 1,199. Increased the life siphon healing from 392 to 489 in PvP only.

 

 

Edited Friday at 08:11 PM by Buran.3796

[Oldyoung.6109]

be honest commenters, will this change literally anything for you?

[Susi Musi.2964]

1 hour ago, Oldyoung.6109 said:

be honest commenters, will this change literally anything for you?

For me, no, because this isn't just a number (only) issue, it's a quality one (sword 3 for example...). A lot of you made pretty good suggestions about improving underused and outdated weapons, but none of them seems to stick for the devs.☹️

Staff still bland, scepter still clunky so as renegade elite. (And i don't think renegade needs more defense /heal on kalla. Don't know where they got the idea, that this was the problem. Yeah buff is always welcome, but i would prefer they would target different skills.)

Also there are a lot of (revenant related) bugs need to be fixed.

P.s. just saw that they just dumped buffs on every guardian skill, cause why not. Not like they have the most useful and overloaded utility skills...

Edited Friday at 09:25 PM by Susi Musi.2964

[Buran.3796]

36 minutes ago, Oldyoung.6109 said:

be honest commenters, will this change literally anything for you?

  The biggest change in the preview is the removal of the extra boon and condition duration of celestial stats in WvW. 

   Would it affect me? No. Because since the alliance revamp I've entirely stopped playing that game mode. I don't even do the weekly rewards. I don't enter there to unlock PvE things with WvW tokens or to deposit/get things from the bank. Previously have been playing roaming cele Vindi for months and months but then ditched it beacuse while curstomped most of non cele builds oftenly was unable to deal with better cele ones (Harbs and some eles), and against others it ended in unending ties (Druids). So I was transitioning to a power build which would be less well rounded but able to properly burst cele bunkers. But the changes came and I just stopped playing it. My marauder + dragon Willbender was in good spot and I think that now will be even better. I guess that traiblazer/dire builds will become the new metas (there's a chance ANet ends nerfing those in WvW, also). But I don't care: I'm not playing that.

   Now, the proper Rev changes:  support WvW buffs; I won't play that, I don't think support Vindi will be in the meta after the nerfs from the last weeks. Buff to Herald won't make it meta at PvP and I don`t play Herald in any game mode. Buffs to Renegade seems weak, I won't move from Vindi, sorry.

   So nothing changes: cele Vindi for me in PvE, power Vindi at PvP, nothing in WvW for a while. If I do step again in WvW would be either power hammer for roaming or condi build in a zerg, but I think that the current meta of 4 supports from squad won't change AND Rev no longer is meta there.

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

I read "defensive improvements to Legendary Renegade Stance" and thought oh neat, they're actually going to make it better in pvp scenarios (and pve as well outside of condi). Neat what are they going to do? add a condi clear on pulse to the heal or a double or triple cleanse on the final tick? Add a meaningful amount of stab to dark razor? Maybe a boon removal somewhere? 

Nah... here, have 500 more barrier when you use our failed rework mechanic correctly and 200 more healing when you accidently have energy spare when you have your elite out already.

Weird filler changes that mean nothing for renegade. 

[Shagie.7612]

More face tanking ability that you can get from 1111 spam isn't really what anyone wants for Renegade.
Blocks, evades, cleansing, things that take actual timing to survive with is what it needs, not effectively giving up and going "here let's start approaching the old Renegod design again"

I'm not sure any of these changes will give the class any serious consideration towards running Herald or Ren in spvp over Vindicator, tbh.
Maybe a Herald roamer return I guess.

It's quite frustrating that every change they make is barely helping Herald/Ren.
I think they should make large enough changes so that there's actual consideration towards what elite/legends you want, not just Vindicator being the best pick for any type of build you want, be it power, condi, sidenode, duelist, roamer, support, or whatever.

[Jobber.6348]

5 hours ago, Oldyoung.6109 said:

be honest commenters, will this change literally anything for you?

Not much because key problems still remain for many Revenant weapons including Hammer being a waste of time again and offhand sword still being clunky.

They also didn't change the one important thing that MH Swords need which is Sword 3 not attacking Supply Depots and maybe focusing all their attacks on a single target, which will exponentially improve the weapon to the point it's usable in PvE as well.

I'll tell you why they are buffing Herald, albeit cautiously: Revenants in WvW have been leaning on Celestial as a crutch to an unhealthy degree because our other options are very poor in the face of EoD power creep. These buffs are to give Revenants an out by letting us go back to Power Herald, at least in a more controlled manner instead of being stuck with Old-Cele in WvW which will strangle our Cele SB Vindi and Rene builds.

As someone who already plays Power Herald/Core Swords in WvW, this changes little for me. Probably gonna be more annoying fighting outnumbered players without Conc and Expertise on my Vindi but that's what the Resolute Evasion buff is for. 

Oh but one thing definitely will be better: My Karakosa Blasting PvP build where I use Spear and Mace to blast fields to heal with. Would be amazing with the Salvation buffs.

 🔫😎🔫

Edited Saturday at 01:28 AM by Jobber.6348

[arazoth.7290]

4 hours ago, UncreativeGreen.2019 said:

I read "defensive improvements to Legendary Renegade Stance" and thought oh neat, they're actually going to make it better in pvp scenarios (and pve as well outside of condi). Neat what are they going to do? add a condi clear on pulse to the heal or a double or triple cleanse on the final tick? Add a meaningful amount of stab to dark razor? Maybe a boon removal somewhere? 

Nah... here, have 500 more barrier when you use our failed rework mechanic correctly and 200 more healing when you accidently have energy spare when you have your elite out already.

Weird filler changes that mean nothing for renegade. 

Also F-skills on renegade should be free cost since there are 3 to press and stance + weapon skills are already expensive. Making these meaningfull more would have helped too.

For example add shared pulsing condi cleanse on F3, F1 add resistance share on it, F2  faster projectile speed, it's kitten slow

Kalla stance skills being able to get placed anywhere like wells as update...

[BALONEYPWNY.9258]

6 hours ago, Oldyoung.6109 said:

be honest commenters, will this change literally anything for you?

This patch would have caused me to quit if I hadn't already done so.

I understand the cele nerf in a vacuum, but rev is now probably dead in WvW.  At least for small scale.  Thief and Power WB caught a large indirect buff with this.  As if they needed it.

[Jobber.6348]

1 hour ago, BALONEYPWNY.9258 said:

I understand the cele nerf in a vacuum, but rev is now probably dead in WvW

Untrue considering there has been newer Condi builds which explores Trailblazer or Ritualist popping up along with solid roamers like Retribution Swords Vindicator. Myself testing Ritualist Spear/ Shortbow version of the classic Shiro Renegade roamer because now you can cover Shortbow's conditions with Spear which has interesting results.

Power Herald getting buffed while they are currently already a match or more of a match for many opposing burst builds. Also if you didn't catch the memo, Power Herald has been good in roaming for awhile now ever since they gave Glint TN Condi cleanse. That definitely rounded up Power Herald's condi defense strategy and even lets players run Sword + GS if they feel that they aren't meeting many Condi builds that day. 

 Support or DPS Vindicator, Herald are still very much WvW zerg staples, so these guys aren't going anywhere. 

Alot of getting used to if you were previously a Cele abuser but not dead. Especially if you're willing to skill up and adapt your builds. In fact, having a little cheeky chuckle that we got mainly all buffs for the Oct 8 preview. All buffs even if some of them are weirdsauce is better than getting slathered with nerfs like we've had for the past couple patches because Hammer "too powerful" 

Also Thief will actually get affected by these, especially  those who have been abusing the hell out of Cele Deadeye, Cele Specter and Cele DD. Three of the most obnoxious, degenerate and unkillable builds in WvW.

Willbender is Willbender, just dodge their hard hitters and they crumble under Mallyx Boonstrips. They at least have the decency to not go Stealth every 2s to remove Condis and will get crushed by heavy Condi pressure. Been killing Willbenders left and right on CORE Spear Revenant ever since JW launched. 

 

Edited Saturday at 04:39 AM by Jobber.6348

[Buran.3796]

  Which is the best bunker/support build at the moment?

  I've seen at the MAT Vindi with Alliance & Ventari, but also meet very durable Mallyx with Ventari.  I've see staff + sword & shield to have any i-frames as possible, but also found builds running scepter and axe to stack interrupts. Jobber is relying in part in dark field combos to blind enemies, but tried that in a couple of matches and I ended empty of energy in short time.

  Which is the best bunker/support and trhe choices in legends, weapons and traitlines given I'm playing outside a conformed team? I'm tempted to try Heretic with Jalis since energy cost of power builds seems to be way savy and easier to sustain...

 

[Jobber.6348]

22 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

but tried that in a couple of matches and I ended empty of energy in short time.

I linked my Karakosa Blaster build in another post. It does not use Alliance at all because all the Cleanse and Heal you need is via upkeep and Blasting fields. 

Ventari = Bubble Blast for Cleanses, you won't touch any other skill except maybe Elite for Stab and CC. 

Mallyx = EtD Blast for Blinds, you will not touch anything else unless it's to CC with CTA but that's up to your situation to dictate if it's safer to CC or keep a field up for blasting.

Also Spear 4 is a Dark Field, so if you have that up, use it always to CC then Blast on point with Spear 5 so that you don't have to CTA or ETD at all. 

Spear Mace/Shield Transference Energy on both

Monk/Flock

Karakosa

Sage* (Can use Heretic if you need damage but honestly more HP is better because precision gives you literally nothing )

Why Vindicator and not Core? Because Vindicator OP dodge for protection. Anti pressure on yourself always good as a healer. 

Edited Saturday at 09:33 AM by Jobber.6348

[arazoth.7290]

2 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

  Which is the best bunker/support build at the moment?

  I've seen at the MAT Vindi with Alliance & Ventari, but also meet very durable Mallyx with Ventari.  I've see staff + sword & shield to have any i-frames as possible, but also found builds running scepter and axe to stack interrupts. Jobber is relying in part in dark field combos to blind enemies, but tried that in a couple of matches and I ended empty of energy in short time.

  Which is the best bunker/support and trhe choices in legends, weapons and traitlines given I'm playing outside a conformed team? I'm tempted to try Heretic with Jalis since energy cost of power builds seems to be way savy and easier to sustain...

 

I linked mine, hybrid with debalitating enemies + condis, cc, really good support still. It gives counter pressure and lowers enemies damage output, pure support builds don't have this on revenant atm due to staff and scepter being weak.

Here , better next patch also

Edited Saturday at 11:17 AM by arazoth.7290

[Buran.3796]

Scepter is purely strike damage? Doesn't put condi damage at all?

[Jobber.6348]

46 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

Scepter is purely strike damage? Doesn't put condi damage at all?

Yes lol. Honestly looks designed for WvW considering how clunk it is and how it literally makes no sense to itself. 

I mean imagine this:

In what PvE situation the Healer goes off stack and needs an ally TP to zoop back in. No situation unless you're not even playing your job well.

What situation needs you to target ally barrier and essentially sac it for your team? It's not even a ranged heal, it's a weaksauce barrier pulsing effect.

Why autos randomly only give barrier on final hit and not just keep giving barrier? Supposed to be a healer weapon right? 

[HardStuckBronze.2439]

Does anyone actually play forceful persistence on herald in WvW or PvP over draconic echo? 
 

Honestly I feel like they should take a nerfed version of forceful persistence and combine it with the grandmaster minor reinforced potency and then create a new viable grandmaster that competes with draconic echo. This would be enough of a buff to herald to make the power build competitive with vindi. 
 

Also please rework replenishing despair in the corruption trait line it is likely the worst trait in the entire game - apply self torment every second for a 1 pip reduction in energy drain (in a traitline taken by condi builds so that torment damage is not insignificant) 

[Jobber.6348]

30 minutes ago, HardStuckBronze.2439 said:

Does anyone actually play forceful persistence on herald in WvW or PvP over draconic echo? 
 

Honestly I feel like they should take a nerfed version of forceful persistence and combine it with the grandmaster minor reinforced potency and then create a new viable grandmaster that competes with draconic echo. This would be enough of a buff to herald to make the power build competitive with vindi. 
 

Also please rework replenishing despair in the corruption trait line it is likely the worst trait in the entire game - apply self torment every second for a 1 pip reduction in energy drain (in a traitline taken by condi builds so that torment damage is not insignificant) 

Hammer Herald yea. 

Nothing that roams will want to take Forceful over Echoes because roaming desires to be more self sufficient while you can just camp upkeeps and slam jam in a zerg where Forceful's 13%/12% is quite abit of damage for cleaving. 

It's not useless but definitely not something that needed a buff if Anet wanted Power Herald Roamer to become viable again because players will not give up Echoes for it.

To make Forceful Persistence attractive, the player must find reason to maintain the upkeeps instead of dumping them, and in the only scenario where a Herald does this is Condi Herald using Mallyx Elite but alas Forceful Persistence increases Strike damage only.

Here's what I'll do:

Forceful Persistence changed to ALL DAMAGE buff based on points of upkeep. Make it in line with Rising Momentum and Hardening Persistence. 2% per upkeep. 

 

Edited Saturday at 06:21 PM by Jobber.6348

[Buran.3796]

   Yesterday I saw part of the weekly 2 v 2 AT until I lost the internet connection, so I don't known which team won but so far seems that:

* Main tactic from most of teams was running one damage dealer and one support.

* The most displayed damage dealers were Spellbreaker, Reaper or Willbender.

* The most common support were Chronomancer, Vindicator and Tempest.

* I saw pure Vindicators running support weapons but also some hybrids wielding the spear. Both had succesful matches.

* I don't known how it ended (hopefully Teapot uploads the stream soon) but Vindi seemed succesful/competitive both against Chrono and Tempest. Matches were oftenly very close and the skill level was top notch, with fights reaching the time cap. Once the gas started to spread the teams with Vindi oftenly had the edge.

 

  I've been trying support builds in unranked and even some push, but Ventari is not my cup of tea and I do better when I just run Alliance & Jalis. Yet, I'm having more succes just playing a hammer build. So: hammer seems still decent but not the best choice for a dps role; support Vindi is very strong but less useful in pug matches; hybrid spear Vindi in both support and damage variants seems strong.

   I don't like Push at all and I'm eager to see it going away in ten days...

 

[arazoth.7290]

2 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

 

* I saw hybrids wielding the spear. 

 

 hybrid spear Vindi in both support and damage variants seems strong.

  

 

If it was on Eu that very likely was been me, I don't know another one who runs it there.

My preference would have been for ideal build combo/team synergy, condi druid with sage amulet rune of the druid. Because of hybrid nature, good condi pressure, condi cover for us both, both giving boons and condi cleanse on each other and cc's, both giving each other more sustain. It would have filled in every gap we needed to make it to top or close enough bc build.

But I queued up with a friend ad duo who ran spellbreaker, spellbreaker is a good partner as class/spec but there were weaknesses in our duo combo. For example spb couldn't bc his build off support me that much or give me more condi cover and me neither give him condi cover bc he ran power build. He could have maybe ran some more damage because sometimes I felt we lacked pressure and some fights I had most damage as hybrid support ( 52% T damage, 65% T heal + other support stuff not showing ).

Versus most people we were succesfull because we won 4/6 matches with perfect 3-0 score.

But when the first fight we faced a p2-3 team, willbender spear + chrono support we only got 1 kill on them and then we lost each time the poison gas fight because willbender had more damage. So what willbender had what we lacked was some off support passive more by boons, cleanses, some healing on their support while also having more damage as dps. So this countered my extra condi damage because a support cleansed it and a willbender and my teamate damage couldn't budge through it enough either.

6th round we faced a condi Herald + untamed power cc high damage duo maces/hammer.

Now they had a lot more pressure and we couldn't do enough to outsustain it both, both had some boon removal and good cc's ontop to overwhelm. + what did again our build weakness actually show what lost the fight===> herald had passive support while on offense bc boons to give and some group cleanse ontop. Because he had only to deal with 1 condi user, me, so he felt allright about not being pressured enough. Because of that my condi damage to help with extra pressure was denied and we had a lot less pressure.

Ontop of this all, the untamed provided more condi cover by debilitating effects for his condi herald, this made it also harder to cleanse of myself/teamate in time.

So because of these 2 factors we couldn't pressure enough, so they could be more aggressive which result in me having to support harder and focus on stability, resistance, cleanses, healing. This also results in doing even less damage and they pace offense up because also teamate couldn't do enough damage to pressure back. Some boln rips from both ontop to throw us off balance/create openings => result 0-3 🙂

 

[Buran.3796]

   I think I have ready my gear combo for WvW roaming solo builds (to not run it), with some doubts about traits.

   Now is time to figure a condi WvW build. That will be harder since there's more stat combos available, and because Rev condi builds ahve two handicaps: movement and range. The bow has range, but oftenly sucks and really only delivers good damage traited as Renegade. Spear with 600 inches range is mostly mele (everything will poke you to death at will). There's gap closers as axe #4, sword #5 or Call to Anguish, but those weapons sacrifice a lot of defensive potential for the questiaonable amount of damage they deal.

   I guess a hybrid with condi damage with Mallyx and Ventari could work, but there's no longer a stat with condi damage + expertise + healing power. (Apthecary is maybe the closest thing). There's also no support gear with damage (Ritualist lacks healing power, Apothecary lacks expertise). Man, the more I think it, the more apparent becomes that PvP has stronger stat selection of gear despite having only half of the PvE/WvW combos. PvE has so much useless nothingness laying  around since the release of the game in 2012...

[arazoth.7290]

7 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

   I think I have ready my gear combo for WvW roaming solo builds (to not run it), with some doubts about traits.

   Now is time to figure a condi WvW build. That will be harder since there's more stat combos available, and because Rev condi builds ahve two handicaps: movement and range. The bow has range, but oftenly sucks and really only delivers good damage traited as Renegade. Spear with 600 inches range is mostly mele (everything will poke you to death at will). There's gap closers as axe #4, sword #5 or Call to Anguish, but those weapons sacrifice a lot of defensive potential for the questiaonable amount of damage they deal.

   I guess a hybrid with condi damage with Mallyx and Ventari could work, but there's no longer a stat with condi damage + expertise + healing power. (Apthecary is maybe the closest thing). There's also no support gear with damage (Ritualist lacks healing power, Apothecary lacks expertise). Man, the more I think it, the more apparent becomes that PvP has stronger stat selection of gear despite having only half of the PvE/WvW combos. PvE has so much useless nothingness laying  around since the release of the game in 2012...

I think we were too spoiled cele in WvW granting that much and now we have to do some more work for it 😅. I am still going to run cele gear though, expertise is overrated against players imo bc cleanses, will see how the boon duration removed will affect it

[arazoth.7290]

14 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Yesterday I saw part of the weekly 2 v 2 AT until I lost the internet connection, so I don't known which team won but so far seems that:

* Main tactic from most of teams was running one damage dealer and one support.

* The most displayed damage dealers were Spellbreaker, Reaper or Willbender.

* The most common support were Chronomancer, Vindicator and Tempest.

* I saw pure Vindicators running support weapons but also some hybrids wielding the spear. Both had succesful matches.

* I don't known how it ended (hopefully Teapot uploads the stream soon) but Vindi seemed succesful/competitive both against Chrono and Tempest. Matches were oftenly very close and the skill level was top notch, with fights reaching the time cap. Once the gas started to spread the teams with Vindi oftenly had the edge.

 

  I've been trying support builds in unranked and even some push, but Ventari is not my cup of tea and I do better when I just run Alliance & Jalis. Yet, I'm having more succes just playing a hammer build. So: hammer seems still decent but not the best choice for a dps role; support Vindi is very strong but less useful in pug matches; hybrid spear Vindi in both support and damage variants seems strong.

   I don't like Push at all and I'm eager to see it going away in ten days...

 

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2251044720?tt_content=vod&tt_medium=mobile_web_share

At 1:26.00 time stamp to start watching that fight in 2v2 😉

Edited Monday at 12:22 AM by arazoth.7290

[Jobber.6348]

On 9/16/2024 at 7:52 AM, arazoth.7290 said:

I think we were too spoiled cele in WvW granting that much and now we have to do some more work for it 😅. I am still going to run cele gear though, expertise is overrated against players imo bc cleanses, will see how the boon duration removed will affect it

Most people will probably run Cele armor and switch up their runes and trinkets to suit. You just need that minimal "non glass" amount of stats as a platform to start building hybrid.

I think running Ritualist for trinkets can actually make the Condi leaning builds fair better and the Power leaning builds will go Diviner with Durability/Herald runes.

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Jobber.6348