How to make specter viable again

[HanarusNa.3806]

Currently specter is underperforming in all competitive modes compared to the other thief specs and I think the spec needs some buffs. The only build that is decently viable atm is scepter condi specter and I think the reason is that all other weapon sets are balanced around the standard initiative of thief. Increasing the iniative of specter would be one way to deal with it but maybe it would make the spec a little too strong. (Maybe just give specter 1 or 2 initiative more?)

Another option, that would play into the uniqueness of the spec, would be to buff shroud a little. I find that shroud generation is very low and a small increase here could work to make it a more reliable tool. Either give a flat increase to everything that generates shroud, or maybe add shroud generation to the wells (3% on every well maybe). This way we could also generate shadow force out of combat. Because trying to get into combat before every pvp match to get a sliver of shadow force is really annoying.
Alternatively, I would like to see a buff to the shroud abilities. Maybe ramp up the damage a little, especially the power damage, since power specter is dead at the moment.

 

What are your thoughts on these buffs? Let's discuss

[kash.9213]

Maybe I'm spacing out a lot but I thought you could build Shadow Force out of combat with Traversing Dusk as long as there are allies around. I might be seeing that wrong. Larcenous Torment feels like it needs a boost in both Siphon and Shadow Force gain. I want to use it on both my condi and power specter templates but it's just not a factor in a fight (WvW fight at least) so I'm using Traversing Dusk right now. Those templates feel fine in big fights but they feel like they would have a better flow otherwise. 

I would only be hesitant to up the damage on Shroud skills if Shroud could take more than a few hits but we're not making a huge splash with the amount of time we typically can last in Shroud in any real fight. Plus, none of those skills have residual area effect so you even have to be more surgical with placement than you'd think with a Shroud like mechanic. 

 

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

16 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

Maybe I'm spacing out a lot but I thought you could build Shadow Force out of combat with Traversing Dusk as long as there are allies around. I might be seeing that wrong. Larcenous Torment feels like it needs a boost in both Siphon and Shadow Force gain. I want to use it on both my condi and power specter templates but it's just not a factor in a fight (WvW fight at least) so I'm using Traversing Dusk right now. Those templates feel fine in big fights but they feel like they would have a better flow otherwise. 

I would only be hesitant to up the damage on Shroud skills if Shroud could take more than a few hits but we're not making a huge splash with the amount of time we typically can last in Shroud in any real fight. Plus, none of those skills have residual area effect so you even have to be more surgical with placement than you'd think with a Shroud like mechanic. 

 

larcenous torment needs to have some way to gain shadowforce within shroud for sustain but requires a huge burst in damage to knock you out of shroud. Necro just got a buff to 

• Soul Eater: The healing from this trait can now heal the player while they are using Reaper Shroud. Healing while in shroud has reduced effectiveness in PvE..
  
  this should be the case for specter as well since the RED TEXT in tooltip doesnt want it to happen.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

The initiative penalty not only locks you into specific weapons but also into specific traits. I personally don't see the spec seeing much play as it currently is unless they revert the -3 ini penalty to allow different kinds of builds. 

[HanarusNa.3806]

9 hours ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

The initiative penalty not only locks you into specific weapons but also into specific traits. I personally don't see the spec seeing much play as it currently is unless they revert the -3 ini penalty to allow different kinds of builds. 

Exactly. Specter is absolutely required to run trickery and even with it you're out of init after using 2 or 3 skills.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

54 minutes ago, HanarusNa.3806 said:

Exactly. Specter is absolutely required to run trickery and even with it you're out of init after using 2 or 3 skills.

The question is whether this is intended or not really. Shroud needed a nerf as it was too strong on release (I used to get 27k ish shroud on an 18k health pool in WvW, which on full trailblazer was kinda silly) but as per usual the balance team went overboard on the nerf then never revisited the shroud gain, shroud amount or the damage reduction like they said they would. 

This is assuming that the balance team did actually forget to revisit specter, and while there's a lot of other examples of them doing something then never getting round to fixing it (tried marking the octovine on deadeye lately? yeah), there is the possibility that ANet didn't forget specter and they actually WANT specter to be limited in this way for balance reasons (ie, if it can only do one thing, it's less work for them to balance it which means they can spend more time on other things). 

Given that the balance team seems to be full of people that don't really know how thief works or how to balance it (for instance, changing revealed to 4s in WvW without a compensation in defensive ability isn't going to do anything except encourage more ganking followed by chicken s!%t running away than before), I wouldn't hold out much hope.