Thief need a REWORK like memser

[freedomtolove.5476]

All right here's your rework for the next expansion.

I present the Assassin from Cantha as the next elite specialisation. Inspired From Guild Wars 1 this will bring back weapon combos with a new mechanic for thieves called combos. Lead attacks, off-hand attacks and dual attacks will come with the new weapon set dual swords. Focused around knocking down the target with the lead attack leading into more powerful attacks with the off-hand like dealing extra damage when the enemy is knocked down and finally finishing off with a dual attack to deal more damage if all other combos have landed. Changes steal into a lead attack teleport which can be followed up with off-hand attacks and finally dual attacks. Utilities focus on weapon combos and conditions. These dual swords replace existing weapons as a stand-alone weapon set.

Dual swords:

1: (A) Autoattack begins with a lead attack called Leaping Mantis Sting (Range: 130). Hit target foe to cripple them.

(B) 2nd part of autoattack is an off-hand attack called Trampling Ox (Range: 130). If target foe is crippled knock them down (1 second).

© 3rd part of autoattack is a dual attack called Impale (Range: 130). If target foe is in down state stomp them (similiar to https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Finishing_Blow).

2: Teleport to target foe (Range: 900). Temple Strike: Inflicts Daze for 3 seconds (Costs 4 initiative). This counts as an off-hand attack.

3: Dual attack Combo skill. Starburst Stream: 16 hits: Horizontal slash, Uppercut slash and full circle spin, horizontal slash continuing spin, horizontal slash with both swords, downward X-slash, upward X-slash, 2 opposite direction diagonal slashes, lift swords up and turn away reversing grip, reverse grip downward X-slash, Corkscrew attack and shift swords into forward grip, downward X-slash, upward X-slash, Diagonal slash and spin, horizontal slash, uppercut slash with both swords, downwards vertical slash, downward diagonal slash and spin, downward diagonal slash, forward thrust and forward lunge. (Costs 10 initiative; Open to balance by Arenanet.)

4: Shroud of Distress: You have 75% chance to block but no effect unless your health is below 50%. (Lasts 3 seconds and costs 5 initiative).

5: Flashing Blades: For 5 seconds while attacking you have a 75% chance to block. (Costs 8 initiative).

Heal: Dark Escape: Take 50% less damage as long as you're not attacking for 5 seconds and heal over time.

Utility skills:

Iron Palm: (Range:130) Causes knockdown (3 seconds) if target has a condition. This skill counts as a lead attack and off-hand attack. (20 second cooldown).

Shroud of Silence: For 5 seconds your critical hits remove boons. (50 second cooldown).

Moebius Strike: (Range: 130) Gives you 6 initiative back If you have just used a dual attack skill. This skill counts as a lead and off-hand attack. (30 second cooldown).

Way of the Master: For 10 seconds you cause a new type of condition called Deep Wound (This lowers the person's health by 20%) for 3 seconds with your attacks. (40 second cooldown).

Elite skill:

Shadow Form: For 5 seconds Hostile spells targeting you fail and attacks against you miss. (60 second cooldown).

Traits:

Adept:

Minor: Steal becomes Wastrel's collapse: Teleport skill (1200 range) If target is not using any skill then target is knocked down. This skill counts as a lead attack. (Same cooldown as Steal affected by Trickery traits). Access to Dual swords and combo skills. Lead attacks must be followed by off-hand and then dual attacks.

Critical Hits: For each autoattack chain you finish you gain 1 initiative.

Sword Mastery: There is a chance that your autoattacks will gain quickness.

Assassin's Promise: Your utility skills cooldown is reduced by 20%. (This does not affect Shadow Form).

Master:

Minor: Starburst Stream now has a 20% increased chance to critically hit.

Critical Defenses: You gain Dark Escape on being affected by any crowd control (60 second cooldown).

Aura of Displacement: Wastrel's collapse has a shorter cooldown by 20% which stacks with trickery traits.

Assassin's Remedy: Your next 10 attacks you use remove 1 condition (30 second cooldown).

Grandmaster:

Minor: Gain Flashing blades for 5 seconds when your health drops belows 50% health (40 second cooldown).

Way of the assassin: Shadow form can be shared to allies for 5 seconds. (60 second cooldown).

Critical Agility: Shroud of Distress now triggers when your health drops below 50% health (30 second cooldown).

Way of Perfection: You are healed for every critical hit and remove a condition.

[will de grijze jager.6594]

@Kageseigi.2150 said:

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:You know what i mean so i am not going to respons to this

I actually don't. I think you're talking outside of your knowledge.I've played Berserker/Assassin melee Core Thief. It's all but suicide to get into melee range and to actually TRY to do damage.

okay you really think i don't know that most thief are running marauder. I first thought you are making a joke, but i see you are not..... geas what if any other class does that htey will get punished for it becuase they are not able ot get a lot of hits on them self, but thief and mesmer can do it and still out sustain warrior and warrior are a heavy class. you really think that a class that has really high damage should be able to run a way and evade the whole time. If so that is...... i have friend who main mesmer and thief and they even think that is not healthy for the game.

[will de grijze jager.6594]

@"getalifeturd.8139" said:All right here's your rework for the next expansion.

I present the Assassin from Cantha as the next elite specialisation. Inspired From Guild Wars 1 this will bring back weapon combos with a new mechanic for thieves called combos. Lead attacks, off-hand attacks and dual attacks will come with the new weapon set dual swords. Focused around knocking down the target with the lead attack leading into more powerful attacks with the off-hand like dealing extra damage when the enemy is knocked down and finally finishing off with a dual attack to deal more damage if all other combos have landed. Changes steal into a lead attack teleport which can be followed up with off-hand attacks and finally dual attacks. Utilities focus on weapon combos and conditions. These dual swords replace existing weapons as a stand-alone weapon set.

Dual swords:

1: (A) Autoattack begins with a lead attack called Leaping Mantis Sting (Range: 130). Hit target foe to cripple them.

(B) 2nd part of autoattack is an off-hand attack called Trampling Ox (Range: 130). If target foe is crippled knock them down (1 second).

© 3rd part of autoattack is a dual attack called Impale (Range: 130). If target foe is in down state stomp them (similiar to https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Finishing_Blow).

2: Teleport to target foe (Range: 900). Temple Strike: Inflicts Daze for 3 seconds (Costs 4 initiative). This counts as an off-hand attack.

3: Dual attack Combo skill. Starburst Stream: 16 hits: Horizontal slash, Uppercut slash and full circle spin, horizontal slash continuing spin, horizontal slash with both swords, downward X-slash, upward X-slash, 2 opposite direction diagonal slashes, lift swords up and turn away reversing grip, reverse grip downward X-slash, Corkscrew attack and shift swords into forward grip, downward X-slash, upward X-slash, Diagonal slash and spin, horizontal slash, uppercut slash with both swords, downwards vertical slash, downward diagonal slash and spin, downward diagonal slash, forward thrust and forward lunge. (Costs 10 initiative; Open to balance by Arenanet.)

4: Shroud of Distress: You have 75% chance to block but no effect unless your health is below 50%. (Lasts 3 seconds and costs 5 initiative).

5: Flashing Blades: For 5 seconds while attacking you have a 75% chance to block. (Costs 8 initiative).

Heal: Dark Escape: Take 50% less damage as long as you're not attacking for 5 seconds and heal over time.

Utility skills:

Iron Palm: (Range:130) Causes knockdown (3 seconds) if target has a condition. This skill counts as a lead attack and off-hand attack. (20 second cooldown).

Shroud of Silence: For 5 seconds your critical hits remove boons. (50 second cooldown).

Moebius Strike: (Range: 130) Gives you 6 initiative back If you have just used a dual attack skill. This skill counts as a lead and off-hand attack. (30 second cooldown).

Way of the Master: For 10 seconds you cause a new type of condition called Deep Wound (This lowers the person's health by 20%) for 3 seconds with your attacks. (40 second cooldown).

Elite skill:

Shadow Form: For 5 seconds Hostile spells targeting you fail and attacks against you miss. (60 second cooldown).

Traits:

Adept:

Minor: Steal becomes Wastrel's collapse: Teleport skill (1200 range) If target is not using any skill then target is knocked down. This skill counts as a lead attack. (Same cooldown as Steal affected by Trickery traits). Access to Dual swords and combo skills. Lead attacks must be followed by off-hand and then dual attacks.

Critical Hits: For each autoattack chain you finish you gain 1 initiative.

Sword Mastery: There is a chance that your autoattacks will gain quickness.

Assassin's Promise: Your utility skills cooldown is reduced by 20%. (This does not affect Shadow Form).

Master:

Minor: Starburst Stream now has a 20% increased chance to critically hit.

Critical Defenses: You gain Dark Escape on being affected by any crowd control (60 second cooldown).

Aura of Displacement: Wastrel's collapse has a shorter cooldown by 20% which stacks with trickery traits.

Assassin's Remedy: Your next 10 attacks you use remove 1 condition (30 second cooldown).

Grandmaster:

Minor: Gain Flashing blades for 5 seconds when your health drops belows 50% health (40 second cooldown).

Way of the assassin: Shadow form can be shared to allies for 5 seconds. (60 second cooldown).

Critical Agility: Shroud of Distress now triggers when your health drops below 50% health (30 second cooldown).

Way of Perfection: You are healed for every critical hit and remove a condition.

It is funny but this sound better then how thief is. Some should be tunned down like shadow form make it like stone sig 2 or 3 second but playing agianst something like that would be more fun then how thief is now. If they juist chance the thief to this instad the mobility and evades tehy have now . of course some thing you say need a little tunne down but yes this would be something.

[Kageseigi.2150]

@"will de grijze jager.6594" said:okay you really think i don't know that most thief are running marauder. I first thought you are making a joke, but i see you are not..... geas what if any other class does that htey will get punished for it becuase they are not able ot get a lot of hits on them self, but thief and mesmer can do it and still out sustain warrior and warrior are a heavy class. you really think that a class that has really high damage should be able to run a way and evade the whole time.

You said, "So that is with every other class that go full berserk or something like that except Mesmer and Thief." Except it's the same for the Thief when it goes Berserker.

Of course most Thieves use Marauder because Berserker is suicide. Instead of going down from 2 hits, you go down in 3. And you give up nearly 15% of your base damage.

The difference between the Thief and others is that others can mitigate direct hits where the Thief cannot. The Guardian can literally take a huge hit for free even if Berserker. Warriors and Rangers can straight up engage with several seconds of immunity to direct damage. Many professions can block. Many have damage reduction capability. Some professions can sit in the middle of a giant, deadly AoE field to protect themselves. The Thief can do none of those things save for the Daredevil's block or camping in Stealth with Resilience of Shadows.

So yes, there's a huge difference between the Thief and other professions. But it's not because the Thief's attacks are more powerful or even that it is more mobile. It's because mobility is the only thing it has to survive. Many times, if it misses a single evade, it's dead.

On top of that, the Thief just took a huge hit to its AA damage on both Dagger and Sword.

Unhealthy for the game? The Thief as it is now? Not at all... not at all. Especially in PvP. Why would it be? Because good Thieves can escape? Until they can both escape and kill consistently, then there's no issue. They are like flies... just annoying for the most part. That's exactly the way a Thief should be played... to annoy the ever living daylights out of others.

[will de grijze jager.6594]

@Kageseigi.2150 said:

@"will de grijze jager.6594" said:okay you really think i don't know that most thief are running marauder. I first thought you are making a joke, but i see you are not..... geas what if any other class does that htey will get punished for it becuase they are not able ot get a lot of hits on them self, but thief and mesmer can do it and still out sustain warrior and warrior are a heavy class. you really think that a class that has really high damage should be able to run a way and evade the whole time.

You said, "So that is with every other class that go full berserk or something like that except Mesmer and Thief." Except it's the same for the Thief when it goes Berserker.

Of course most Thieves use Marauder because Berserker is suicide. Instead of going down from 2 hits, you go down in 3. And you give up nearly 15% of your base damage.

The difference between the Thief and others is that others can mitigate direct hits where the Thief cannot. The Guardian can literally take a huge hit for free even if Berserker. Warriors and Rangers can straight up engage with several seconds of immunity to direct damage. Many professions can block. Many have damage reduction capability. Some professions can sit in the middle of a giant, deadly AoE field to protect themselves. The Thief can do none of those things save for the Daredevil's block or camping in Stealth with Resilience of Shadows.

So yes, there's a huge difference between the Thief and other professions. But it's not because the Thief's attacks are more powerful or even that it is more mobile. It's because mobility is the only thing it has to survive. Many times, if it misses a single evade, it's dead.

On top of that, the Thief just took a huge hit to its AA damage on both Dagger and Sword.

Unhealthy for the game? The Thief as it is now? Not at all... not at all. Especially in PvP. Why would it be? Because good Thieves can escape? Until they can both escape and kill consistently, then there's no issue. They are like flies... just annoying for the most part. That's exactly the way a Thief should be played... to annoy the ever living daylights out of others.

guardians can't, rangers can't. Warrior can because of the util and traits they have. you say the 3 classes that i main so i know what i'm talking about. i can play thief and mesmer to so i am talking from my expre and not out of hate of the classes. If you really want to see why read the whole post and not 1 part of it and if you don't know why thief and mesmer are unhealthy for the game read the pvp forums for like 10 mints and you understand. Of course someone who mains a klass don't think that it is a problem for the game, but that doesn't say it isn't.

[Kageseigi.2150]

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:guardians can't, rangers can't. Warrior can because of the util and traits they have. you say the 3 classes that i main so i know what i'm talking about. i can play thief and mesmer to so i am talking from my expre and not out of hate of the classes. If you really want to see why read the whole post and not 1 part of it and if you don't know why thief and mesmer are unhealthy for the game read the pvp forums for like 10 mints and you understand.

What did I say that was inaccurate about the Guardian and Ranger? Guardians have Aegis, blocks, Protection, and Retaliation. Dragonhunters have huge traps. Rangers have Signet of Stone, Protection, and large traps. And this isn't even mentioning anything about healing.

I read the PvP forums plenty, thank you. Of course there's a lot of whining about Thieves. There always has been. It's not because Thieves can kill the complainers. It's because Thieves are annoying. The only Thief that's getting the a lot of grief for lethality is the Deadeye because of Death's Judgment.

Of course someone who mains a klass don't think that it is a problem for the game, but that doesn't say it isn't.

It seems that you need to start maining the Thief then. Honestly, you're being hypocritical here... your bias is showing. You underestimate my ability to be objective.

[Nuka Cola.8520]

Being able to perma stealth (a thing that shouldn't be possible in this game since 2013) and have no CD on weapon skills is something i never understood. Rev manages energy as well, but you still get CD on your wep skills. So why is that? Let me guess, "because that's how it was designed" bs. You interrupt a thief, who cares, the skill doesn't go on a 5sec CD. You chill a thief, who cares, wep skills have no CD so chill isn't even doing anything to it.

Combo/chain based Assassin was so much better in GW1. Same insane damage and CC (if you wanted that), but you could see it coming, not getting BS'd for 12k out of stealth.

[will de grijze jager.6594]

@"Nuka Cola.8520" said:Being able to perma stealth (a thing that shouldn't be possible in this game since 2013) and have no CD on weapon skills is something i never understood. Rev manages energy as well, but you still get CD on your wep skills. So why is that? Let me guess, "because that's how it was designed" bs. You interrupt a thief, who cares, the skill doesn't go on a 5sec CD. You chill a thief, who cares, wep skills have no CD so chill isn't even doing anything to it.

Combo/chain based Assassin was so much better in GW1. Same insane damage and CC (if you wanted that), but you could see it coming, not getting BS'd for 12k out of stealth.

I think if they would at a small cd like 5 seconds on skill 3,4 and 5 and 2,5 seconds on skill 2 would make the class better. I know it is almost no cd but it would solve the spammy feel to the thief. or nuke the whole class and make it like gw1 assasin

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@will de grijze jager.6594 said:or nuke the whole class and make it like gw1 assasin

When ANet annouced elite specs I commented on other forums that it would be a good occasion to scrap initiative and do something like GW1 assassin.I don't play thief that much but I loved GW1 assassin, it would be difficult to balance chain attacks on GW2 tho with the amount of blocks, evades, invuln this game has.

Still I think someone creative enough should do either a rework or elite spec around assassins, ANet draws a lot of ideas of forums.