Questions from a Guardian main.

[MadOtaku.8532]

So i don't understand this class, the Photon forge is op and amazing but i don't understand rifle. I'm full meta build and the auto does like 2k hits. Dual pistol is just as garbage so does a power build just not work unless you are just going from photon into grenades and bombs. Like rifle dmg is meh pistol dmg is meh, sword is ok but the two offhand options are meh. Grenade spamming is hell and bombs require close range. So does engi have no viable range option that actually does dmg besides grenade spamming which is still meh dmg cause the 2-5 are just meh.

Cause pugging fractals with a crappy group means range dps is kinda required when i wait for cooldowns but range dps is impossible with holo but i was under the impression engi was a mid range class. Like is the base power engi class just not viable? so to play with the amazing photon forge i have to deal with basically having no viable weapon and just having to spam rubbish grenades? But i don't understand the rifle at all, if the base engi class is supposed to be condi why is the rifle a power based weapon.

Summarywhy does the rifle have such bad dps?why is there no weapon swap in PVE?why are the weapons so underpowered?is this class literally about grenade spamming?should i run vipers gear and then switch to pistol pistol for range? but i can't see it being strong dps wise as it kills to photon forge dps.

Like is it just me or does the holo just not match engi, or is the rifle just in the need of a buff.

[MadOtaku.8532]

LIke i go the the guardian forum and see people complaining about scepter and LB which i think are fair complaints but then i play engi and its only ranged power weapon does half the dps of LB and a quarter the dps of scepter. Like should i just force myself to understand that holo is just for melee dps and can't function as anything else. So as a new main its actually not viable.

[Vagrant.7206]

@MadOtaku.8532 said:LIke i go the the guardian forum and see people complaining about scepter and LB which i think are fair complaints but then i play engi and its only ranged power weapon does half the dps of LB and a quarter the dps of scepter. Like should i just force myself to understand that holo is just for melee dps and can't function as anything else. So as a new main its actually not viable.

Lol, welcome to engineer buddy. Our main weapons are atrocious because ANet, in their infinite wisdom, decided to make our kits stronger than our main weapons. This is the reality of core engineer's situation, and is the cause of much consternation in the engineer community. It's also why condi engi has to play an opera every time they fight. If you aren't running kits in PvE (specifically grenades and bombs), you are guaranteed to be doing subpar DPS, full stop.

The general rotation for holo engi in PvE is this:

• PF chain til explosion
• Rifle 3 + rifle 5
• Grenade kit 2
• Bomb kit 2 + bomb kit AA
• Then back to PF once it cools down.
• Use toolbelt skills liberally throughout.

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Also, welcome to engineer. Where the weapons are weak, the kits are ok, scrapper is bad, and the interesting stuff sucks. But hey, at least we have holo which everyone thinks is totally fair and isn't going to get nerfed.

@MadOtaku.8532 said:Cause pugging fractals with a crappy group means range dps is kinda required when i wait for cooldowns but range dps is impossible with holo but i was under the impression engi was a mid range class. Like is the base power engi class just not viable? so to play with the amazing photon forge i have to deal with basically having no viable weapon and just having to spam rubbish grenades? But i don't understand the rifle at all, if the base engi class is supposed to be condi why is the rifle a power based weapon.

This is actually because the rifle was designed for PvP, not PvE. Its core function is to control the battlefield in a PvP match, not produce meaningful DPS. It still has this fundamental design. Prior to Holo's release, the "power build" was a power bomber, with a little rifle and toolbelt thrown in if you wanted variety.

, and you can listen to WoodenPotatoes explain why the whole build's design is ridiculous and counterintuitive, but bizarrely effective.

And what was ArenaNet's takeaway from that video? Was it that our traits work counterintuitively? Was it that our kits are clunky and strange? Or was it even that we're actually melee range in PvE?

No. Their takeaway was that turrets should only overcharge upon placement, as to free up the toolbelt skill Surprise Shot. Since that time, they've also nerfed bomb kit's autoattack. Is it really any wonder that besides Rev, engineer is the least played class?

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Also, going pistol pistol will not solve your problem. P/P is pure condi, the power damage is even worse than the rifle.

Like is it just me or does the holo just not match engi, or is the rifle just in the need of a buff.

Holo was a band-aid slapped on the class because ArenaNet doesn't seem to know what to do with core engineer or scrapper. It plays like a fluid class (IE warrior), not engineer.

And yes, others think rifle needs a PvE buff too. A lot of people think it should be converted to act more like a true shotgun. Engineer was CLEARLY inspired by the Engineer from Team Fortress 2, which also uses a shotgun, Flamethrower kit was inspired by the Pyro, mortar kit/grenade kit by the Demoman.

[MadOtaku.8532]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

Holo was a band-aid slapped on the class because ArenaNet doesn't seem to know what to do with core engineer or scrapper. It plays like a fluid class (IE warrior), not engineer.

This basically answers my confusion, as a guard main some things are weak but everything is semi viable so when i want to change i can and i still feel useful and relevant.

Actually surprised me just how little love the core engi has got over the years, as i recall nothing has been changed since i tried it at launch.

So basically iv come to the conclusion that holo is for close range dps and has to be a pocket pick not something i want to main because it simply can't do range dps.

Thx for help

[Ardid.7203]

Engie is considered medium range because you need to change from launching yourself yolo style into melee and kiting like mad. So mid range is were you are most of the time. Rifle also works there, but the AA is just a placeholder for something that never got developed.

[Derenek.8931]

I just rebuilt my flamethrower juggernaut using Marshall's gear instead of knights. And it is ruthlessly invincible!! The guy regenerates like five hundred HP a second without using a healing skill. Using a heal that pumps the regen to ridiculous amounts. All the while still melting off the enemies faces with burning awesomeness.http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdQQJAqancT5miqrUXZ5VyrwWL7Ww6lNRL3FlYB9D5AYDWABA9q36zOA-jxRFQBKV9Hgqnwd7PQVlfA4BBkVlgE4ECsO4A4oKFMapc0RHd0RH1AGt0QHt0QHd0RLVKAzVWB-eI challenge anyone to make a more survivable engineer.

[Vagrant.7206]

@MadOtaku.8532 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

Holo was a band-aid slapped on the class because ArenaNet doesn't seem to know what to do with core engineer or scrapper. It plays like a fluid class (IE warrior), not engineer.

This basically answers my confusion, as a guard main some things are weak but everything is semi viable so when i want to change i can and i still feel useful and relevant.

Actually surprised me just how little love the core engi has got over the years, as i recall nothing has been changed since i tried it at launch.

So basically iv come to the conclusion that holo is for close range dps and has to be a pocket pick not something i want to main because it simply can't do range dps.

Thx for help

No problem. I wish I could convince more people of how desperately engineer needs a real rework, but I doubt that's going to happen.

[Iozeph.5617]

@Vagrant.7206 said:No problem. I wish I could convince more people of how desperately engineer needs a real rework, but I doubt that's going to happen.

That's because nearly everyone worth convincing has either a) from observing all the acrimony surrounding the profession from a distance vowed never to try one, b) quit playing theirs in favour of another prof which probably uses our base weapons better than us and won't come back, c) plays other, overdone professions in competitive modes and wants no further competition(which is fed in part by point b), or d) quit playing guild wars two altogether. Oh... and e) is a developer who doesn't give a toss- except to neuter the profession even further before dropping the mic in front of a vetted, echo chamber audience.

The rest are random transients and shills who pop by every now and then. When they aren't busy telling you there's nothing wrong with the profession or its changes (read: nerfs, because that's all it's been) and gushing about how awesome the profession is after said changes, how needed they were, and how awesome the devs are for inflicting them on the community(by comparison to other profs are there enough engineer players left to constitute a community?), they're busy telling you that you should adapt and overcome or you're simply a bad player who's been playing engineer all wrong from day one. If you don't adapt and overcome, if you don't shut it and toe the line then you need to leave. This, because apparently the engineer was a profession and guild wars two a game which, from the outset-and regardless of how they were marketed, had and still have right and wrong ways to be played -who knew?

You're right to go back to Guardian if you actually play this game for enjoyment(even after the staff nerfs!). Life's too short to waste it on lost causes and exercises in masochism.

[Ardid.7203]

There's always another option: to recognize the problems and declare them, but still continue having fun.

I'm not competitive at all, and killing my character often doesn't bother me either. I don't seek the top results either, and don't have interest on Raids. So as long as you don't pretend to achieve high performance on the game, Engie is perfectly useful and great to play.

For me Engie, and specially FT, is just too much fun to leave.

[Iozeph.5617]

@Ardid.7203 said:There's always another option: to recognize the problems and declare them, but still continue having fun.

I'm not competitive at all, and killing my character often doesn't bother me either. I don't seek the top results either, and don't have interest on Raids. So as long as you don't pretend to achieve high performance on the game, Engie is perfectly useful and great to play.

For me Engie, and specially FT, is just too much fun to leave.

This much I'll agree to. In concept it's the most fun profession. I just don;t knwo why we're made to pay so much for it.

For story chapters and small outings I still take my engineer if only for its thematic appeal. Before gliding and mounts I used to love exploring out of the way places with jump shot. Used to love tower defence in WvW with flamethrower. Big ol' bomb brings a smile to my face every time when it connects. But the fun's easily eroded when I see someone beside me downing things in a fraction of the time.

I know it isn't strictly a competition, PvE especially, but given the effort needed -as opposed to other profs- there's a feeling at the back of my mind that I could be doing so much more with my play time. Everything in gw2 is a time waster, but why should an engineer's player's time be any less valuable than any other profession's?

You're right again though. Recognise, declare, have fun. There's not much to be added to the litany that hasn't been said countless times by now. And even when it was fresh, nobody cared.

Recognise, declare, have fun.

Bite down, chew, swallow, repeat. We should be used to that by now.

[Ardid.7203]

Is not about about not falling. Its about getting up with a smile every single time. (Until they freak out and run or die of boredom...)