Condi mesmer WvW build

[Pansoul.9436]

Are there Anyone still used condi mesmer on WvW these days? Used to tried power mes but want to try something else. Link for any build is appreciated.

[eldenbri.1059]

This is what I'm using right now (though likely it won't be as viable whenever changes for chronophantasma and signet of ether come through)http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhQQRAre7fnsICVohNqBmpBEgilXjCNAypjoeYP2l9sICijD-jFiAQBR7IA0l9H8n+hYqE0hnAQ9HPq8DAHEgE8AAIFQX70A-w

Generally the idea is to start with shield. Use scepter block and shield blocks plus dodges until you have three clones out. Then use continuum shift to cast phantasmal mage (ideally the sequence is F5, F4, prestige, phantasmal mage, signet of ether, phantasmal mage, gravity well). If you do it all quickly enough, you can do phantasmal mage and gravity well again after continuum shift. This is the only "burst" in the build. If you don't kill someone with this, you pretty much are hoping that they run around with torment on and kill themselves because confusion does very little.

Here are a couple of videos where I'm testing it out. My skill is decidedly average, and I'm rehabbing a finger from surgery. So this isn't intended to show great gameplay - the goal is to test a build that has a lot of resilience and potentially handle 1v2 fights.

[Elthari.3968]

I highly recommend looking at hybrid mirage build - http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vhQQNAnfWnsnBlphlLDGMDMMjlZDzv+1/CgmjgVQLpMAcbSGA-jFyHQBLR5nyOlCzRJ4PVxJRqHUT9N7Y/BA8kCWHcA8Vv61X51Xf91v+6rv+6rGwrv+6rv+6rv+6rxAUF-w

It was created by @Curunen.8729 and I am having a blast with it, though I run with full trailblazer armor and sinister trinkets. You can hold your own in duels and you are not useless in zerg - staff is surprisingly versalite and can dish a lot of pain quickly. For mobility I change Illusionary Ambush to Signet of Inspiration.

And oh, lots of reflect. Basically you get 4s of reflects every 12 seconds and that punishes some classes hard.

[Curunen.8729]

@"Elthari.3968" said:I highly recommend looking at hybrid mirage build - http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vhQQNAnfWnsnBlphlLDGMDMMjlZDzv+1/CgmjgVQLpMAcbSGA-jFyHQBLR5nyOlCzRJ4PVxJRqHUT9N7Y/BA8kCWHcA8Vv61X51Xf91v+6rv+6rGwrv+6rv+6rv+6rxAUF-w

It was created by @"Curunen.8729" and I am having a blast with it, though I run with full trailblazer armor and sinister trinkets. You can hold your own in duels and you are not useless in zerg - staff is surprisingly versalite and can dish a lot of pain quickly. For mobility I change Illusionary Ambush to Signet of Inspiration.

And oh, lots of reflect. Basically you get 4s of reflects every 12 seconds and that punishes some classes hard.

One note with this build - I used to use Signet of Inspiration instead of Sand through Glass, for the swiftness because this build otherwise has no enhanced movement speed out of combat. Together with the teleports this made it possible to outrun groups in a straight line.

However recently I have switched over to Sand through Glass because I wanted more in combat utility when in pseudo 1v1s rather than a useless passive Signet, as well as preparing myself for any additional Elusive Mind nerfs by having an additional utility stunbreak. Sand through Glass isn't as good as it should be (and I believe it could do with a small buff in some way), but is better than it appears at first glance, and it has proven invaluable in some fights. Because this build has such high reflect potential, I recommend not using too much stealth because fairly often the reflect will cause a reveal proc - and even the extra phantasmal seeking axe from Mirrored Axes can break stealth - hence the decision not to use Signet of Midnight. Even with only Prestige I have to be very careful when using it defensively/to escape that the stealth isn't broken by reflects or otherwise. Illusionary Ambush is your "pseudo-stealth", especially when used in staff.

The only caveat with the change is now I can be more easily caught by opponents and can't rely on being able to escape in a line - requiring far more map awareness, particularly of 25% movement speed objective auras and taking care not to be caught in a position where you can't escape through mobility - because this build doesn't have much stealth it requires mobility/teleports/detargeting to get in/out of fights. For that reason I no longer blindly run to opponent's north camp etc. On that note even the 10% movement speed from the guild swiftness banner makes a big difference, so now I always keep an eye out of these and make use of them. If we ever get a +15% movement speed enrichment (hypothetical), I will certainly use this.

Oh and for the record, in terms of stats - Mighty wvw infusions + Toxic focusing crystal provides more raw power/condi damage than Malign wvw infusions + tin of fruitcake. However I still prefer the latter because Fruitcake is much cheaper than toxic focusing crystals - and personally I believe the mind games of people seeing power enhancement on your bar when opening with Staff is worth a few less stats than seeing condi enhancement (given the dodge food is neutral).

[Leodon.1564]

@Curunen.8729 Why not use Traveller's Runes for the movement speed buff instead of Adventure's Runes?

[apharma.3741]

@Leodon.1564 said:@Curunen.8729 Why not use Traveller's Runes for the movement speed buff instead of Adventure's Runes?

The heal, mirror, is trained onto a 12s cool down which is 2s more than the ICD on the adventure runes 1 dodge regeneration. Basically every 12s you press heal, get health back and a full dodge.

To put this in perspective, it is equivalent to 4.16 units of endurance a second which is only 0.34 units/s less than both vigor AND endurance regent food together.

TLDR it’s flat out broken on a 12s CD heal.

[Curunen.8729]

@Leodon.1564 said:@Curunen.8729 Why not use Traveller's Runes for the movement speed buff instead of Adventure's Runes?

You could do, it would work.

But while traveler gives the flat speed buff, losing out on 50% endurance gain on a 12s heal is quite significant - especially following the exhaustion nerf to elusive mind - adventurer runes in addition with energy sigils help to mitigate the effect of exhaustion.

If I was to go back and make a decision between Traveler runes + free third utility slot (Sand through Glass most likely to make up for loss of evade on Adventurer runes), or Adventurer runes + Signet of Inspiration, I'd still choose the latter because the endurance regain on traited Mirror heal provides greater access to mirage cloak and survivability while also allowing for good flat speed boost through swiftness (which through chaotic persistence and boon synergy ends up at good uptime).

The decision to drop Signet of Inspiration for Sand through Glass while keeping Adventurer runes is functional with the amount of mobility from traited blink, phase retreat, jaunt, illusionary ambush and axe 3 (can be used to target npcs/opponents to disengage in a direction) - though it requires more awareness of map territories and objective auras for 25% movement in a territory, and in addition I find the 10% movement speed from guild buff banners to be sufficient providing I don't go blindly running to the enemy's side of the map without knowing where/how I'm going to get out (ie water to disengage with spear, etc).

@apharma.3741 said:

@Leodon.1564 said:@Curunen.8729 Why not use Traveller's Runes for the movement speed buff instead of Adventure's Runes?

The heal, mirror, is trained onto a 12s cool down which is 2s more than the ICD on the adventure runes 1 dodge regeneration. Basically every 12s you press heal, get health back and a full dodge.

To put this in perspective, it is equivalent to 4.16 units of endurance a second which is only 0.34 units/s less than both vigor AND endurance regent food together.

TLDR it’s flat out broken on a 12s CD heal.I won't lie, it's very powerful - though I'd hesitate to call it broken in the way something like say Sword ambush allowing effortless disengage is kind of broken.

Bearing in mind I play axe and staff which don't have much in the way of built in evades hence requiring mirage cloak to cover cast stuff (ie axe 2).

One other thing is the endurance regain procs at the end of the cast of Mirror - which is a longish cast time leaving you vulnerable - such that often I cover cast Mirror heal with a dodge (benefit is popping out a DE clone and activating ambush) which means it just ends up refunding the endurance I spent covering it.

Sure if Anet decide it needs nerfing then I'll roll with it, though I don't think it's necessary at the moment.

[Leodon.1564]

@apharma.3741 said:

@Leodon.1564 said:@"Curunen.8729" Why not use Traveller's Runes for the movement speed buff instead of Adventure's Runes?

The heal, mirror, is trained onto a 12s cool down which is 2s more than the ICD on the adventure runes 1 dodge regeneration. Basically every 12s you press heal, get health back and a full dodge.

To put this in perspective, it is equivalent to 4.16 units of endurance a second which is only 0.34 units/s less than both vigor AND endurance regent food together.

TLDR it’s flat out broken on a 12s CD heal.

Yes, the rune is nice but your talking about the theoretical maximum performance of the rune in a vacuum where you use your heal button on cooldown and you always have 50% or less endurance.

I'm judging the rune based on how much of an impact it has on the actual outcome of a fight. If I had to guess, I'd estimate that out of 10 fights, this rune is the difference maker in "maybe" one of those fights and allows you to pull out a win. If I engage in 10 fights in an hour, the question then becomes is it better for me to win one extra engagement every hour or would I rather have the run speed bonus for that hour?

The question becomes even more complicated if you factor in how many fights you lose because you can't outrun your opponents.

[apharma.3741]

@Leodon.1564 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Leodon.1564 said:@"Curunen.8729" Why not use Traveller's Runes for the movement speed buff instead of Adventure's Runes?

The heal, mirror, is trained onto a 12s cool down which is 2s more than the ICD on the adventure runes 1 dodge regeneration. Basically every 12s you press heal, get health back and a full dodge.

To put this in perspective, it is equivalent to 4.16 units of endurance a second which is only 0.34 units/s less than both vigor AND endurance regent food together.

TLDR it’s flat out broken on a 12s CD heal.

Yes, the rune is nice but your talking about the theoretical maximum performance of the rune in a vacuum where you use your heal button on cooldown and you always have 50% or less endurance.

I'm judging the rune based on how much of an impact it has on the actual outcome of a fight. If I had to guess, I'd estimate that out of 10 fights, this rune is the difference maker in "maybe" one of those fights and allows you to pull out a win. If I engage in 10 fights in an hour, the question then becomes is it better for me to win one extra engagement every hour or would I rather have the run speed bonus for that hour?

The question becomes even more complicated if you factor in how many fights you lose because you can't outrun your opponents.

If you want to outrun your opponents you would run sword not axe. Most roaming builds you come across now have crazy high mobility where you would need plenty of leaps and gap closures to keep up. Even just using your heal every 20s the adventure runes give back the same amount of endurance as perma vigor except this bypasses the 100% regen cap. Adventure runes are incredibly strong on mirage and thief because they both have very low cool down heals to always get the regen.

[eldenbri.1059]

I think if you can play Mirage, Curunen's build is much better. I suck at Mirage, so I'm sticking with Chrono. I made a few tweaks to the earlier chrono build I posted, and I think they've helped with effectiveness. http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vhQQRAre7fnsICVohtpBmpBEgilXj6sICijDNAypjoeYP2lF-jFyCQBH7gAgSlgF8EAq/URlfI7IAQl9HAwDAoe6HIFwi60A-w

This is a fight against a Mirage where it basically works the way it's supposed to (start with blocks and then burst with burning and gravity well). Still the Mirage almost gets away...

[Leodon.1564]

@apharma.3741 said:

@Leodon.1564 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Leodon.1564 said:@"Curunen.8729" Why not use Traveller's Runes for the movement speed buff instead of Adventure's Runes?

The heal, mirror, is trained onto a 12s cool down which is 2s more than the ICD on the adventure runes 1 dodge regeneration. Basically every 12s you press heal, get health back and a full dodge.

To put this in perspective, it is equivalent to 4.16 units of endurance a second which is only 0.34 units/s less than both vigor AND endurance regent food together.

TLDR it’s flat out broken on a 12s CD heal.

Yes, the rune is nice but your talking about the theoretical maximum performance of the rune in a vacuum where you use your heal button on cooldown and you always have 50% or less endurance.

I'm judging the rune based on how much of an impact it has on the actual outcome of a fight. If I had to guess, I'd estimate that out of 10 fights, this rune is the difference maker in "maybe" one of those fights and allows you to pull out a win. If I engage in 10 fights in an hour, the question then becomes is it better for me to win one extra engagement every hour or would I rather have the run speed bonus for that hour?

The question becomes even more complicated if you factor in how many fights you lose because you can't outrun your opponents.

If you want to outrun your opponents you would run sword not axe. Most roaming builds you come across now have crazy high mobility where you would need plenty of leaps and gap closures to keep up. Even just using your heal every 20s the adventure runes give back the same amount of endurance as perma vigor except this bypasses the 100% regen cap. Adventure runes are incredibly strong on mirage and thief because they both have very low cool down heals to always get the regen.

If I wanted max mobility then yes, I would run Sword instead of Axe but we're talking about run speed bonus vs 50% endurance gain (via runes) on a fixed Axe hybrid build. I would consider using Adventurer Runes in situations where I could really get the most out of the endurance gains such as sPVP or Fractals/Raids. For open world and WvW where you are travelling a lot and fights are generally lobsided (i.e. you are either going to steamroll or get steamrolled most of the time), I still prefer Traveller's Runes on classes/specs that can't easily get Swiftness. Sure, I'll lose a fight every once in a while by using Traveller's Runes over Adventurer Runes but I'll take that over the aggravation I'll be feeling for not having Swiftness the other 99% of the time.

[Oozo.7856]

I use Runes of Speed (+swiftness duration, vitality, passive movement speed) for a few reasons as stated below. I don't think there is one correct choice. It really depends on your play-style. What is best for one person will be different than what is best for another.

I kite when up against classes that can do massive close range damage. Axe is a very good kiting weapon since axe ambush does not require you to be facing your target to hit them. So, passive movement speed is really good if your play-style involves a lot of kiting.

It's also good if you are running PU, since your chance of escape in bad situations increases with the amount of ground you cover while in stealth. Runes of Speed is also nice here because it will increase swiftness duration that you gain while in stealth.

[Arlette.9684]

To put it in lament’s terms and in 2 lines:WvW —> Movement speed > 1 extra dodge cuz dodge food!SPvP —> Adventurer runes 4life!

Oops,Guess that’s 3 lines.

[Curunen.8729]

For the record I sometimes swap Sand through Glass back for Signet of Inspiration if I feel I'll need the swiftness. Depends on the situation - ie if defending/moving around owned structures with 25% objective aura, there's no need for built in movement speed; if grouped with a few allies sharing swiftness there's also no need; if moving to a position on a map where there is either water nearby (I have signet of inspiration equipped in place of blink underwater so I don't waste blink cooldown) or an owned territory with objective aura within a short distance (few teleports, etc) or knowing there are likely to only be a few enemies such that rapid disengage isn't crucial, it's also not necessary; on DBL hitting the shrines compensates (though I wish their movement speed boost lasted longer as 5 mins is quite short) so built in isn't really necessary, only a luxury there.

So as you can see the few times I feel hamstrung are if I feel reckless enough to run to the opponent's side of the map solo to grab a camp or bait some fights and may need to gtfo fast/not stick around for whatever reason. But I decided to curtail my playstyle to be less reckless in order to not have to use signet of inspiration most of the time and maintain better functionality in small fights.

One other thing to bear in mind is mirage cloak gives superspeed, so when disengaging in a straight line together with multiple teleports it helps provide 1s maximised speed bursts, so maximising all sources of endurance regain does provide some benefit here to offset a built in 25% speed boost. Also I routinely make sure to grab any guild 10% speed buff banners now which makes a non-negligable difference.

Overall there isn't any best way - it's all down to personal preference, whether traveler/speed runes, signet of inspiration, or even people who still swap focus in/out of their inventory, or use those sigils to stack swiftness from killing npcs. Whichever way works for you is the best way for you. :)

[EUmad.7645]

Is it not better to swap shield for torch and chrono for mirage ?