Necro: "how to fix..."

[pcgamefreak.5208]

As a developer myself, my fixes/changes...

[1]  Entering Shroud should grant stability and swiftness for 4 seconds intervals, with 6 seconds between intervals. OR Entering Shroud grants 10 seconds of swiftness.  If Necro gets "CC'ed" in anyway, swiftness ends if still going and the Necro gains stability for 7 seconds (ending 'CC') on 10 second interval time (stability only).  This will allow Necro players to have a chance to actually do something while in Shroud, versus being "CC'ed" while high damage eats up Shroud, which makes it useless that way.

[1b]  As an option to [1], allow Necros to generate all Boons when entering Shroud for 10 seconds.  Critical hits against Shrouded Necros will add 1 second back to all Boon durations, not exceeding the max of 10 seconds.

[2]  Shroud need better skills, period!  As it stands, Shroud is more of a single target mode with no real high damage or burst.  Instead, change all Shroud attacks to be AOE attacks (full range) and add a lot more conditions from all attacks while in Shroud.  Since conditions can be cleansed so easily in WvW, it makes sense to allow Shroud to flood the player with conditions so they don't cleanse them all or as an option, add new Shroud only/Necro only conditions that can not be cleansed and will remain until duration is over.  This is the first step in bringing Condi Necro back and Necro is built for conditions so it makes sense.  Keep in mind, a Necro is nothing while outside of Shroud so that balance of being deadly in Shroud and weaker out of Shroud (damage absorbing wise), kills any chance of being 'OP' but gives a Necro a chance to win against Boon crazy, fast classes like Willbender.  The Necro shouldn't be an instant kill out of Shroud either but a lot more vulnerable.  By adding lots of conditions to Shroud in "AOE" attacks, you now breath new life in a trait like parasitic cognition or what ever it's called...you know the trait that generates healing from conditional damage percentage (which needs to be increased to at least 10 percent).

[3]  Necro Grasp skill....  With all the immunity and 'invul' in WvW, I don't see how the "Devs" didn't realize, Necro Grasp is going to miss/do-nothing a lot in WvW.  That's a wasted skill as is.  Instead, if Necro Grasp does not grab a player(s), it will do an unblockable (no immune or 'invul' against it) root "CC" instead and grant swiftness to the Necro for 5 seconds.  The length of the root effect will depend on the distance of the Necro.  The farther away the Necro, the longer root will last.  This mechanic will basically allow the Necro to get within striking range using the Grasp skill that fails to pull but they still won't be right up on the target player...like toe to toe, just close enough to use Scepter or Axe skills before the target starts moving again.  This will also force the target to use some assets like dodge, teleport, etc, instead of just having everything right at the Necro and as it stands, players can just hold the Necro in place and burst them down.

[4]  Spectral Walk needs to be fixed...  If a Necro does the 'recall' on Spectral Walk, all targeting on the Necro needs to stop instantly, period!  Makes no sense doing a Recall that puts you way out of range of enemies but they can still hit you or pull you waaaaaaaayyyyyyyy back to them.  As it stands, Spectral Walk is broken.  Spectral Walk shouldn't be Boon-stripped either.  As it stands, you can have it stripped because I've had it stripped lots of time.  Add stability to Spectral Walk and add Protection.  Increase the duration of spectral walk because Necros have no speed anyway, so an increased durations means larger Recall ranges, which gives the Necro a chance to escape from battle because as it stands, the Necro looks like the only Class that can't really escape from battle.  These changes would not be 'OP' because of the cool-down on the ability so it's not like the Necro can spam it and when you throw in other Classes that can teleport and have speed, the Necro can still be ran down even with these changes but at least a Necro will have a better chance to flee combat.

[5]  Increase Necros' fear durations because as it stands now, it's a joke!  When you look at the more meaningful "CC" like pulls, knock-downs, roots, dazes, etc....  There's no reason why a Necro can't have a good "CC" as well.  In fact, increase fear durations and decrease movement speed more when hitting targets with chill because I see too many players still moving fast even when chilled...and that defeats the purpose of chilling.  The Necro should be able to pull away after chilling a target and this will just add better mobility to the Necro without actually adding mobility.  If need be, totally freeze enemy players for 2 seconds if chilled by Necros only (durations stack).  Keep in mind, you have condition cleansing, so no way for the changes to be "OP."

[6]  Staff is garbage!  Marks are too easy to see as they drop and too easy to dodge.  Since Marks are so easy to avoid, where's the punishment if someone runs through one?  There is none and that's why the Staff is broken!!  The fact Marks have to be dropped, adds an extra click the Necro players have to make and this is also a disadvantage.  Marks need a secondary mode the player can set to true or false (non-trait).  The second Mark-Mode would make Marks "AOE", with the Necro being the center origin of the Mark.  This change would be major for the Necro because it's a way to make enemies players get back and if they don't...this is why the next change is need....  Marks need to inflict more conditional damage, period!  Right now, a lot of players in WvW will just run through Marks...not even trying to dodge them because they don't really do anything much in terms of damage and are not a real threat.  This is why marks need to inflict more conditions and Boon-Strip as well.  By making this change, you make Marks respected again and give the Necro a change up in how they wish to drop their marks, manually like current or "AOE" style.  Lastly, all Marks should land, period!  They can be easily dodge and avoided so if a player gets caught in one, it needs to land and get rid of the "marks unblockable trait" and put something better in that slot.

[7]  Necros have too much cast time on abilities and attacks.  If you never played Reaper with a Greatsword, do so and pay attention to how slow the attacks are.  The "Devs" made it easy for anyone to see the attacks coming.  Simple fix for all that...  Get rid of cast time, PERIOD!!!!!  Speed up attacks so enemy players don't have time to eat a burger and fries before dodging the Necro.  The Necro looks like the Statue of Liberty while casting Plague-Lands...that's how long cast time is for the Class.

[8]  Increase base damage on Scepter, Axe, Dagger, Torch and Focus skills.  The Necro needs high damage while out of Shroud.  If you're going to give other classes all this immunity, 'invul' and countless Boons, it makes no sense in having based damage on a Necro so freaking low.  It's not easy gaining Life Force back while in combat after it's all gone and if you do generate some and go into Shroud, you're not going to be in Shroud long, which is why a Necro needs to be able to deal real damage while out of Shroud.  You're not going to stack 3K power on a Necro like you can with a Willbender, so increase the base damage already.  I know this is true because I go over 4K power on my Willbender with Might Boons (exotics).  You're only going to get around 2k or a little over on a Necro and that's with Bloodlust sigils, Necro sigils and Food/Utility (no might boons).  GW2 is a power first game after all...you have to even it up.

[9]  Elite skills for Necro need to be revamped, period!  Plaguelands is too small, too stationary and too easy to avoid.  Lich Form is too slow and because it uses actual health pool, defense needs to be much higher on Lich Form in order to slow the rate of health drop from high damage.  As a developer, I would drop Lich Form and go with this...  Instead, I would give the Necro and Elite skill that creates four clones of the Necro, similar to the Mesmer clones.  Here's how it would work...  The Clones would obvious do what the Necro does and if the real Necro gets hit, the Necro will automatically switch places with another clone (player doesn't have to click anything).  An enemy player will have to either kill all the Clones to expose the real Necro or stay alive until the Clones expire or if they guess good, kill the real Necro.  This new ability can't be 'OP' because the real Necro can still get hit, remember?  Necros will NOT be able to go into Shroud while this ability is going on but the Necro can cancel the ability early if they wish and go into Shroud.  This ability will only help out roamers because if a Zerg attacks a Necro using such an Elite skill, with all the Clones being hit hard, it doesn't matter which Clone the Necro auto switch with because he's going to take damage at either location, so again, eliminating any 'OP' status.  Clones will only hit for a percentage of the damage coming from the real Necro, again, similar to the Mesmer.  I would get rid of Plaguelands and instead add this...  An Elite Skill that cast a moving tornado of souls and ravens with full range.  This Elite Skill will randomly change direction while spinning and dealing damage to any enemy player caught in it.  The tornado will be fast moving and pivot around the Necro as the Necro moves, so it will not be stationary like Plaguelands.  This ability will inflict conditions, further restoring the conditional concept of the Necro class.  This Elite Skill makes players who love to pull you pay because if they pull the Necro while this Elite Skill is going on, they also pull the Tornado to them as well, which is fair because if the Necro is going to lay on the ground for 10 seconds from a pull, you're going to get hit with some Soul/Raven Tornado!  This will also make a Zerg think twice about pulling a Necro because I would have Elite Skills capable of being started even while the Necro is "CC'ed."  They are ELITE skills after all and shouldn't become un-useable with "CC." 

[10]  I would NOT allow the Necro to get turned into a Moa while in Shroud.  That is disrespect for the Shroud ability, while setting the Moa ability on a pedestal.  You're taking the "Necro" out of Necromancer when you allow for Shroud to be interrupted like that.  Very bad developer decision.  When a Necro is out of Shroud, you have your Moa chance then.  Also, Moa last for too long and because of this, I would greatly reduce the damage to a player while in Moa form.  The objective shouldn't be to get an easy win against a Moa changed player, but allow for the caster to regroup...maybe gain some distance and reduce an enemy's health some but as it stands, getting Moa changed means total obliteration.  Bad development right there, it's supposed to be about balance.

[11]  Scourge Shroud doesn't last long at all, has a big cool-down and doesn't offer much protection given how high DPS is in WvW, even if you're adding the Blood-Bank trait with it.  What needs to be done is this...  When a Scourge cast Shroud and creates a health shield of any proportion, if the shield is deleted by DPS before the effect ends, the Scourge gains Protection, Might(x3), Resistance(x2), Regeneration and Stability for 7 seconds, additionally, any critical hits against the Scourge while Boons are up, will add 1 second back to Boon time (never going higher than 7 seconds max).  Any lethal blow while Boons are up, will cancel all Boons and heal the Scourge by the damage amount and refresh Shroud.  All Scourge healing skills/traits will have a 50% effective output while Boons are up (Scourge only, not team-mates).  Again, this set of Boons and effects will only trigger if Scourge health shield from Shroud only, is destroyed by DPS before expiring on its own.

[12]  I would redo Reaper Greatsword attacks and add jump-to slashes and "AOE" spin moves similar to what the Willbender does.  Why?  Reaper Shroud does not last long at all and the biggest problem with Reaper in WvW is just getting to a player.  With attacks that act as a dodge plus short teleport, the Reaper can avoid a lot of "CC" and actually get to fast moving Classes and have a chance to burst.  This is why the Willbender is so good at getting inside a Zerg and getting out...the attacks create that swift 'jumpy' movement which makes the Willbender harder to target.  The Reaper, with a short Shroud, really needs that kind of attack style to be more playable because as it stands, Reapers are getting slaughtered up in WvW.  The only good Reapers are the cheating Reapers.

Man I could go on forever here but it's getting late so I'll stop.

Not proof reading so forgive "typos",

Peace

[Methuselah.4376]

Should put in a TLDR mate, I got my own thesis to work on...

[Zex Anthon.8673]

1 hour ago, Horace.3184 said:

As a developer myself, my fixes/changes...

[1]  Entering Shroud should grant stability and swiftness for 4 seconds intervals, with 6 seconds between intervals. OR Entering Shroud grants 10 seconds of swiftness.  If Necro gets "CC'ed" in anyway, swiftness ends if still going and the Necro gains stability for 7 seconds (ending 'CC') on 10 second interval time (stability only).  This will allow Necro players to have a chance to actually do something while in Shroud, versus being "CC'ed" while high damage eats up Shroud, which makes it useless that way.

[1b]  As an option to [1], allow Necros to generate all Boons when entering Shroud for 10 seconds.  Critical hits against Shrouded Necros will add 1 second back to all Boon durations, not exceeding the max of 10 seconds.

[2]  Shroud need better skills, period!  As it stands, Shroud is more of a single target mode with no real high damage or burst.  Instead, change all Shroud attacks to be AOE attacks (full range) and add a lot more conditions from all attacks while in Shroud.  Since conditions can be cleansed so easily in WvW, it makes sense to allow Shroud to flood the player with conditions so they don't cleanse them all or as an option, add new Shroud only/Necro only conditions that can not be cleansed and will remain until duration is over.  This is the first step in bringing Condi Necro back and Necro is built for conditions so it makes sense.  Keep in mind, a Necro is nothing while outside of Shroud so that balance of being deadly in Shroud and weaker out of Shroud (damage absorbing wise), kills any chance of being 'OP' but gives a Necro a chance to win against Boon crazy, fast classes like Willbender.  The Necro shouldn't be an instant kill out of Shroud either but a lot more vulnerable.  By adding lots of conditions to Shroud in "AOE" attacks, you now breath new life in a trait like parasitic cognition or what ever it's called...you know the trait that generates healing from conditional damage percentage (which needs to be increased to at least 10 percent).

[3]  Necro Grasp skill....  With all the immunity and 'invul' in WvW, I don't see how the "Devs" didn't realize, Necro Grasp is going to miss/do-nothing a lot in WvW.  That's a wasted skill as is.  Instead, if Necro Grasp does not grab a player(s), it will do an unblockable (no immune or 'invul' against it) root "CC" instead and grant swiftness to the Necro for 5 seconds.  The length of the root effect will depend on the distance of the Necro.  The farther away the Necro, the longer root will last.  This mechanic will basically allow the Necro to get within striking range using the Grasp skill that fails to pull but they still won't be right up on the target player...like toe to toe, just close enough to use Scepter or Axe skills before the target starts moving again.  This will also force the target to use some assets like dodge, teleport, etc, instead of just having everything right at the Necro and as it stands, players can just hold the Necro in place and burst them down.

[4]  Spectral Walk needs to be fixed...  If a Necro does the 'recall' on Spectral Walk, all targeting on the Necro needs to stop instantly, period!  Makes no sense doing a Recall that puts you way out of range of enemies but they can still hit you or pull you waaaaaaaayyyyyyyy back to them.  As it stands, Spectral Walk is broken.  Spectral Walk shouldn't be Boon-stripped either.  As it stands, you can have it stripped because I've had it stripped lots of time.  Add stability to Spectral Walk and add Protection.  Increase the duration of spectral walk because Necros have no speed anyway, so an increased durations means larger Recall ranges, which gives the Necro a chance to escape from battle because as it stands, the Necro looks like the only Class that can't really escape from battle.  These changes would not be 'OP' because of the cool-down on the ability so it's not like the Necro can spam it and when you throw in other Classes that can teleport and have speed, the Necro can still be ran down even with these changes but at least a Necro will have a better chance to flee combat.

[5]  Increase Necros' fear durations because as it stands now, it's a joke!  When you look at the more meaningful "CC" like pulls, knock-downs, roots, dazes, etc....  There's no reason why a Necro can't have a good "CC" as well.  In fact, increase fear durations and decrease movement speed more when hitting targets with chill because I see too many players still moving fast even when chilled...and that defeats the purpose of chilling.  The Necro should be able to pull away after chilling a target and this will just add better mobility to the Necro without actually adding mobility.  If need be, totally freeze enemy players for 2 seconds if chilled by Necros only (durations stack).  Keep in mind, you have condition cleansing, so no way for the changes to be "OP."

[6]  Staff is garbage!  Marks are too easy to see as they drop and too easy to dodge.  Since Marks are so easy to avoid, where's the punishment if someone runs through one?  There is none and that's why the Staff is broken!!  The fact Marks have to be dropped, adds an extra click the Necro players have to make and this is also a disadvantage.  Marks need a secondary mode the player can set to true or false (non-trait).  The second Mark-Mode would make Marks "AOE", with the Necro being the center origin of the Mark.  This change would be major for the Necro because it's a way to make enemies players get back and if they don't...this is why the next change is need....  Marks need to inflict more conditional damage, period!  Right now, a lot of players in WvW will just run through Marks...not even trying to dodge them because they don't really do anything much in terms of damage and are not a real threat.  This is why marks need to inflict more conditions and Boon-Strip as well.  By making this change, you make Marks respected again and give the Necro a change up in how they wish to drop their marks, manually like current or "AOE" style.  Lastly, all Marks should land, period!  They can be easily dodge and avoided so if a player gets caught in one, it needs to land and get rid of the "marks unblockable trait" and put something better in that slot.

[7]  Necros have too much cast time on abilities and attacks.  If you never played Reaper with a Greatsword, do so and pay attention to how slow the attacks are.  The "Devs" made it easy for anyone to see the attacks coming.  Simple fix for all that...  Get rid of cast time, PERIOD!!!!!  Speed up attacks so enemy players don't have time to eat a burger and fries before dodging the Necro.  The Necro looks like the Statue of Liberty while casting Plague-Lands...that's how long cast time is for the Class.

[8]  Increase base damage on Scepter, Axe, Dagger, Torch and Focus skills.  The Necro needs high damage while out of Shroud.  If you're going to give other classes all this immunity, 'invul' and countless Boons, it makes no sense in having based damage on a Necro so freaking low.  It's not easy gaining Life Force back while in combat after it's all gone and if you do generate some and go into Shroud, you're not going to be in Shroud long, which is why a Necro needs to be able to deal real damage while out of Shroud.  You're not going to stack 3K power on a Necro like you can with a Willbender, so increase the base damage already.  I know this is true because I go over 4K power on my Willbender with Might Boons (exotics).  You're only going to get around 2k or a little over on a Necro and that's with Bloodlust sigils, Necro sigils and Food/Utility (no might boons).  GW2 is a power first game after all...you have to even it up.

[9]  Elite skills for Necro need to be revamped, period!  Plaguelands is too small, too stationary and too easy to avoid.  Lich Form is too slow and because it uses actual health pool, defense needs to be much higher on Lich Form in order to slow the rate of health drop from high damage.  As a developer, I would drop Lich Form and go with this...  Instead, I would give the Necro and Elite skill that creates four clones of the Necro, similar to the Mesmer clones.  Here's how it would work...  The Clones would obvious do what the Necro does and if the real Necro gets hit, the Necro will automatically switch places with another clone (player doesn't have to click anything).  An enemy player will have to either kill all the Clones to expose the real Necro or stay alive until the Clones expire or if they guess good, kill the real Necro.  This new ability can't be 'OP' because the real Necro can still get hit, remember?  Necros will NOT be able to go into Shroud while this ability is going on but the Necro can cancel the ability early if they wish and go into Shroud.  This ability will only help out roamers because if a Zerg attacks a Necro using such an Elite skill, with all the Clones being hit hard, it doesn't matter which Clone the Necro auto switch with because he's going to take damage at either location, so again, eliminating any 'OP' status.  Clones will only hit for a percentage of the damage coming from the real Necro, again, similar to the Mesmer.  I would get rid of Plaguelands and instead add this...  An Elite Skill that cast a moving tornado of souls and ravens with full range.  This Elite Skill will randomly change direction while spinning and dealing damage to any enemy player caught in it.  The tornado will be fast moving and pivot around the Necro as the Necro moves, so it will not be stationary like Plaguelands.  This ability will inflict conditions, further restoring the conditional concept of the Necro class.  This Elite Skill makes players who love to pull you pay because if they pull the Necro while this Elite Skill is going on, they also pull the Tornado to them as well, which is fair because if the Necro is going to lay on the ground for 10 seconds from a pull, you're going to get hit with some Soul/Raven Tornado!  This will also make a Zerg think twice about pulling a Necro because I would have Elite Skills capable of being started even while the Necro is "CC'ed."  They are ELITE skills after all and shouldn't become un-useable with "CC." 

[10]  I would NOT allow the Necro to get turned into a Moa while in Shroud.  That is disrespect for the Shroud ability, while setting the Moa ability on a pedestal.  You're taking the "Necro" out of Necromancer when you allow for Shroud to be interrupted like that.  Very bad developer decision.  When a Necro is out of Shroud, you have your Moa chance then.  Also, Moa last for too long and because of this, I would greatly reduce the damage to a player while in Moa form.  The objective shouldn't be to get an easy win against a Moa changed player, but allow for the caster to regroup...maybe gain some distance and reduce an enemy's health some but as it stands, getting Moa changed means total obliteration.  Bad development right there, it's supposed to be about balance.

[11]  Scourge Shroud doesn't last long at all, has a big cool-down and doesn't offer much protection given how high DPS is in WvW, even if you're adding the Blood-Bank trait with it.  What needs to be done is this...  When a Scourge cast Shroud and creates a health shield of any proportion, if the shield is deleted by DPS before the effect ends, the Scourge gains Protection, Might(x3), Resistance(x2), Regeneration and Stability for 7 seconds, additionally, any critical hits against the Scourge while Boons are up, will add 1 second back to Boon time (never going higher than 7 seconds max).  Any lethal blow while Boons are up, will cancel all Boons and heal the Scourge by the damage amount and refresh Shroud.  All Scourge healing skills/traits will have a 50% effective output while Boons are up (Scourge only, not team-mates).  Again, this set of Boons and effects will only trigger if Scourge health shield from Shroud only, is destroyed by DPS before expiring on its own.

[12]  I would redo Reaper Greatsword attacks and add jump-to slashes and "AOE" spin moves similar to what the Willbender does.  Why?  Reaper Shroud does not last long at all and the biggest problem with Reaper in WvW is just getting to a player.  With attacks that act as a dodge plus short teleport, the Reaper can avoid a lot of "CC" and actually get to fast moving Classes and have a chance to burst.  This is why the Willbender is so good at getting inside a Zerg and getting out...the attacks create that swift 'jumpy' movement which makes the Willbender harder to target.  The Reaper, with a short Shroud, really needs that kind of attack style to be more playable because as it stands, Reapers are getting slaughtered up in WvW.  The only good Reapers are the cheating Reapers.

Man I could go on forever here but it's getting late so I'll stop.

Not proof reading so forgive "typos",

Peace

Are you role playing IRL by resurrecting all these old necro posts?

This post reads like a poorly constructed strawman argument as to why necro shouldn't be buffed. But, from your post history I can't really tell if you actually believe this crap. 

Look, Necro is vulnerable to CC, Heavy Focus, High Mobility, Sustained Damage, and Long Range. It is good at cleansing conditions, removing boons, and applying conditions. Arguably, the bad outweighs the good. But suggesting overblown unrealistic buffs does not help the class. All classes need weaknesses. Any change to the class should target 1 or 2 of the above vulnerabilities to make necro more self reliant. Not eliminate all of them.

Edited May 21, 2023 by Zex Anthon.8673
minor correction